THE SELLERS FUMBLE & A FEW OTHER KEY SCREWUP'S (bad call

danegotti · Post by **danegotti** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:00 pm

It's debatable whether or not Mike Sellers fumbled the ball in OT, but what is not debatable is the refs really screwed up - they blew the whistle before a Saints player even came close to taking possession of the ball. Dead Ball...Period. Once the ref blows the whistle, the play is over. You cannot give possession to the other team. They missed it BIG TIME.

I'm not saying it lost the game, no. No, we lost the game when we missed a 23 yard field goal. If we were better coached, we wouldn't have tried to run it to the right on 3rd down - we should have kneeled on it in the center of the field to give Suisham a straight shot (instead we lined up 2 yards to the right and missed the field goal 2 yards right. Ironic, huh?)

We also lost when the Skins failed to throw the Red Flag - AGAIN! The TV announcers even showed the replay and said it hit the ground. It gave the Saints a first down. The Saints scored on that drive. Why are we so F*#&$^&G scared to throw the Red Challenge Flag? The cowardness to throw the challenge flag has cost us games earlier in the season - and no one seems to make a big deal about it. Un-freaking-believable.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:02 pm

danegotti wrote:It's debatable whether or not Mike Sellers fumbled the ball in OT, but what is not debatable is the refs really screwed up - they blew the whistle before a Saints player even came close to taking possession of the ball. Dead Ball...Period. Once the ref blows the whistle, the play is over. You cannot give possession to the other team. They missed it BIG TIME.

I'm not saying it lost the game, no. No, we lost the game when we missed a 23 yard field goal. If we were better coached, we wouldn't have tried to run it to the right on 3rd down - we should have kneeled on it in the center of the field to give Suisham a straight shot (instead we lined up 2 yards to the right and missed the field goal 2 yards right. Ironic, huh?)

We also lost when the Skins failed to throw the Red Flag - AGAIN! The TV announcers even showed the replay and said it hit the ground. It gave the Saints a first down. The Saints scored on that drive. Why are we so F*#&$^&G scared to throw the Red Challenge Flag? The cowardness to throw the challenge flag has cost us games earlier in the season - and no one seems to make a big deal about it. Un-freaking-believable.

I don't think you can call a challenge in OT; the booth has to. Is this Joe jackson Gibbs trying to call 2 consecutive time outs?

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:57 pm

Wrong play Vet.

danegotti · Post by **danegotti** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:52 pm

In the Seller's fumble case, it doesn't matter who can challenge it. The key is the whistle was blown BEFORE the Saints picked up the ball. The play is OVER. The Skins should have retained possesion.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:59 pm

I think they changed that ruling this season and you can play through the whistle on fumbles, etc.

Skins4Lyf · Post by **Skins4Lyf** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:55 pm

What really irks me about that fumble call is this: Players are taught from pee wee on up that when you hear the whistle the play is over. You stop what you are doing and thats it. Sellers in my opinion stops when he hears the whistle and doesn't try to recover the fumble which was laying right by his head. Why should the Saints get the ball on a play that should have been stopped when the refs whistle was blown. Sellers could have recovered the ball, i think, if he did not hear the whistle. But on the other hand.....how the &*%$ do you miss a 23 yard field goal?

MDSKINSFAN · Post by **MDSKINSFAN** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:33 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I think they changed that ruling this season and you can play through the whistle on fumbles, etc.

Yes they did... if a player fumbles, even if the player is called down, and if other team goes for the ball and clearly has possession of it they can be given the ball after a review.

What else do you expect from Sellers? He always fumbles, and in key situations like vs. Cincy last year. He is a blocking FB, not a FB that carries the ball a lot, and hes not even that good at blocking.

But Suisham should have made the kick from EXTRA POINT distance to put the game away. It should've never gotten to OT.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:10 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I think they changed that ruling this season and you can play through the whistle on fumbles, etc.

Thanks Frank. I was wondering about that too because clearly the recovery was after the whistle.

This isn't your fault, you're explaining the rule not arguing for it, but what a stupid idea. When the whistle blows, keep playing! It just may count! I can't believe they would do such a stupid thing. But if it's the rule then you gotta do it.

danegotti · Post by **danegotti** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:11 pm

MDSKINSFAN wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:I think they changed that ruling this season and you can play through the whistle on fumbles, etc.

Yes they did... if a player fumbles, even if the player is called down, and if other team goes for the ball and clearly has possession of it they can be given the ball after a review.

I didn't realize they changed the rule, but I remember 2-3 years ago the old rule screwed us on a similar type play, and now they "fixed" the rule it screwed us again, hahah.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:21 pm

Look, we can blame the refs all day long, but it won't change the LOSS.

We need to play LIGHTS OUT, go for the throat, kill the opponent...so that we never have to leave it up to the refs. The outcome should not hang on a penalty, botched play, bad call....whatever. You play to WIN THE GAME.

mastdark81 · Post by **mastdark81** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:52 pm

tribeofjudah wrote:Look, we can blame the refs all day long, but it won't change the LOSS.

We need to play LIGHTS OUT, go for the throat, kill the opponent...so that we never have to leave it up to the refs. The outcome should not hang on a penalty, botched play, bad call....whatever. You play to WIN THE GAME.

The Saints left it up to the refs today....and they won! I know everyone on this team should be hercules and crush our opponents vertabrae but in the NFL as you see week to week anyone can beat anyone, talent level is so balanced and sometimes it comes down to inches. Refs can decide the fate of games in alot of cases. I can't say they caused us this game but everything definitely went their way today. I agree that they should have gave the Saints that TD before the half because it wasn't enough evidence to say otherwise. Using that same logic they should have not reversed the Sellers play. They called it Redskins ball and it wasn't clear evidence that he fumbled before his forearm touched the ground....anyway we lost! Not going to the playoffs anyway. Saints are overrated.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:59 am

I hate to lose as much as the next guy. I don't like all the teams that we've lost to. I do feel we got "robbed" by some poor officiating.... but we should never have let it get to that point. Poor conservative play calling in the redzone, are you kidding me? We go for 3pts and NOT 6+1...?

* LL is a knucklehead for biting on double double (hey's dude it's not a burger)
* Kareem Moore just needs to get down on a knee and that strip 6 doesn't happen
* no break on a punt that hits Barnes' back - how do you defend against that?

We play better and better, score 30 pts, and still cannot get a BREAK.... aaagggghhhh... frustrating!!!

ATX_Skins · Post by **ATX_Skins** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:47 am

This is the most frustrating loss of the year for myself honestly. Guys played really tough today. Some really bad breaks. The ball hitting Barnes... what are ya gonna do really, he tried to get out of the way. I guess when it rains it really pours for us.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:19 am

Several of THESE reflect my feelings. Not all but several.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:43 am

danegotti wrote:
MDSKINSFAN wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:I think they changed that ruling this season and you can play through the whistle on fumbles, etc.

Yes they did... if a player fumbles, even if the player is called down, and if other team goes for the ball and clearly has possession of it they can be given the ball after a review.

I didn't realize they changed the rule, but I remember 2-3 years ago the old rule screwed us on a similar type play, and now they "fixed" the rule it screwed us again, hahah.

I didn't think they change the rule...I thought they encouaged the Refs to let the play go...i.e...to not blow the whistle to quick. Wouldn't it be dangerous to say a play could still be revieable after the whistle blow??? And again if that the case I blame coaching because you have to coach going after the ball when you fumble period!!

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:28 am

Sellers should be blocking, not receiving.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:00 pm

tribeofjudah wrote:I* Kareem Moore just needs to get down on a knee and that strip 6 doesn't happen

He did get down, he was down, the re-play showed he was down by contact (it also showed it wasn't even a pick - the ball hit the ground!). I guarantee if Moore had taken that to the house and it was called a TD on the field for the Skins, they sure as heck would have had him down by contact or no pick.

That said, he can't let a WR punk him and take the ball away even if the play was already dead.

AND Sellers was clearly down. His wrist hit before the ball ever budged. At that point he was down. The anouncers kept talking about his elbow, but he was already down (once his wrist hit) AND his elbow was down prior to the ball coming out. His wrist hit, the ball moved a little, but didn't come out, but then his elbow hit and the ball popped lose. That was clearly a case of the ground causing the fumble!

Manster · Post by **Manster** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:19 pm

I am a Cowboy fan and my take on it might be a little different but here it is. First here is a link to the play.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200912060 ... 5d814c0903

You will have to sit though some commercials to get to it, Sorry.

I am outside person and not a fan of either team at the :28 seconds into the video it looks to me that the ball is coming out about the same time his wrist is on the ground. What ever way the Refs called it I could understand. There is no way I would say that there was enough there to over turn a call on the field. That being said if I had to make the call I would have called it an incomplete pass. Sellers is moving the ball before that and I do not think that he had both feet down when he did have control and he needs to have control threw the catch which he does not.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:24 pm

I know the NFL look atthis after the whole Culter thing last year...but wasn't the outcome that the ref would lt the play go?? Again I can't see letting this happen after the whistle??
Also why did N.O. get there timeout back??

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:37 pm

DEHog wrote:I know the NFL look atthis after the whole Culter thing last year...but wasn't the outcome that the ref would lt the play go?? Again I can't see letting this happen after the whistle??
Also why did N.O. get there timeout back??

I wondered why they got their TO back too. Not that it mattered! I know the rules change allowed another team to recover a lose ball if the play was ruled down contact, but I don't like the fact that they can recorver it after the whistle. All play is supposed to stop at the whistle!

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:41 pm

well ruling down by contact and the whistle goes hand in hand. Where the problem lies is that Seller's fumbled, he went to recover all the while the ref is blowing the whistle like crazy, basically in plain view stating the the player was down and he gave up on the play. So did the defender who was fighing Seller's for the ball and then the CB picked up the loose ball that they let go because they thought the play was dead. There is only one thing you can say about it though which is "UNLUCKY." - yet again in one game.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:20 pm

I have searched and can't fine the ruling on this....I seen where the rule was looked at and thref wee emcouraged to let the play, play out. After yesterday's ruling I'm left with the question when does a play really end...do you now coach your played to go after the ball when you have fumbled after the whistle...I'd love to see Sellers get up and go after the ball as the defender was handing the ball to the ref and blow up the ref!! But seriously when does a play end??

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:27 pm

I think the rule states that once the other team establishes possession, the play stops. You can't advance the fumble.

We've all been taught to play to the whistle. The NFL needs to change it back because it can go bad more than good. Its a tough call and went against us yesterday. Seller's shouldn't have fumbled.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:51 pm

frankcal20 wrote:Seller's shouldn't have fumbled.

And he didn't! More accurately, he should have held onto the ball after going down.

danegotti · Post by **danegotti** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:25 pm

DEHog wrote:I have searched and can't fine the ruling on this....I seen where the rule was looked at and thref wee emcouraged to let the play, play out. After yesterday's ruling I'm left with the question when does a play really end...do you now coach your played to go after the ball when you have fumbled after the whistle...I'd love to see Sellers get up and go after the ball as the defender was handing the ball to the ref and blow up the ref!! But seriously when does a play end??

Yeah - I feel like this. When does it end? And I wonder if they guy easily picked up the fumble with no pressure because the whistle blew, and he wasn't worried about anyone stripping him. Sellers could have got up and startled him. The play was different as result of the whistle.

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THE SELLERS FUMBLE & A FEW OTHER KEY SCREWUP'S (bad call

THE SELLERS FUMBLE & A FEW OTHER KEY SCREWUP'S (bad call

Re: THE SELLERS FUMBLE & A FEW OTHER KEY SCREWUP'S (bad