Official Post Game Discussion- Skins/Chiefs

Ghost of Red Blaik · Post by **Ghost of Red Blaik** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:15 pm

I would agree with that, I was upset after Portis makes that long run, he is walking around on the sideline talking to the defense, dude get your Butt in the game, if your so tired, sit down, Portis needed to be in the game

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:16 pm

Countertrey wrote:The hideous playcalling does not come from Snyder, nor Cerrato. Let's start with empty backfields on 1st and goal.

Do add to your list the reverse with the ONLY BACKUP QB lead blocking for an unproven/underacheiving receiver. Who does that????

Ghost of Red Blaik · Post by **Ghost of Red Blaik** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:16 pm

I am not sticking up for Zorn, I was just wanting to hear others thoughts...I have wondered about the play calling all season

mweb08 · Post by **mweb08** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:17 pm

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
mweb08 wrote:He had one good pass, otherwise he did nothing.

Exactly one more good pass than Jason had in his performance.

You're right. There are far more pressing issues to address overall with this team, and those ought to be addressed in the offseason, or sooner, if need be (coach, GM, personnel, etc.) NOW, in the day-to-day, we need a change, a spark.

That can only come with changes in personnel. I'd like to see Collins have a chance to work with some of the guys he does during the week, in games, namely guys on the 2nd string. (if you think I'm on crack, please name someone, other than Randle El and ey, on offense, whose production numbers this season CANNOT be matched over the next six games)

Also, please bench/demote/cut DeAngelo immediately. The man cannot tackle.

Yet Campbell was much more effective than Collins today other than that one pass. But if you want to base everything off one pass, go for it.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:19 pm

NYFINESTSKINSFAN wrote:
cleg wrote:
NYFINESTSKINSFAN wrote:
cleg wrote:
NYFINESTSKINSFAN wrote:I'm officially becoming an Eagles fan, there not good enough to be considered to be jumping on the band wagon, but are good enough to be respected as an NFL caliber team to cheer for.

To even consider this you I would wonder what kind of fan you were to begin with.

A great fan. Always have.

You can't possibly be if you would jump to a division rival. The Eagle fans wouldnt want you either if they knew how you can become a turncoat during the hard times.

It has been a hard time since 1992. That is 17 years. You could hardly say I'm a turncoat. It is just for the remainder of the season anyhow. This team is too pathetic to bear this season. If anything, they have disappointed me not me disappointing them.

Please... stop. Are you looking for our approval for for bandwagon jumping? Forget it.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Well everybody who doesn't realize the OL is important got their wish today. The qb was changed and nothing happened. Those people probably still don't realize that the OL is important.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:25 pm

Ghost of Red Blaik wrote:I would agree with that, I was upset after Portis makes that long run, he is walking around on the sideline talking to the defense, dude get your Butt in the game, if your so tired, sit down, Portis needed to be in the game

Excellent point.

Larry Brown would not have been on the sidelines after that run.

Ghost of Red Blaik · Post by **Ghost of Red Blaik** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:26 pm

I agree Brad....the Ol is such a huge factor!

mweb08 · Post by **mweb08** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:29 pm

brad7686 wrote:Well everybody who doesn't realize the OL is important got their wish today. The qb was changed and nothing happened. Those people probably still don't realize that the OL is important.

Yes, but that's not a big as a factor as awful offensive coaching imo. An aging past his prime RB doesn't help either, and it's not like the receivers are anything to write home about.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:31 pm

mweb08 wrote:
brad7686 wrote:Well everybody who doesn't realize the OL is important got their wish today. The qb was changed and nothing happened. Those people probably still don't realize that the OL is important.

Yes, but that's not a big as a factor as awful offensive coaching imo. An aging past his prime RB doesn't help either, and it's not like the receivers are anything to write home about.

yea, really the whole offense is terrible. but with the current linemen being used there just isn't any time to develop anything.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:32 pm

Countertrey wrote:
NYFINESTSKINSFAN wrote:It has been a hard time since 1992. That is 17 years. You could hardly say I'm a turncoat. It is just for the remainder of the season anyhow. This team is too pathetic to bear this season. If anything, they have disappointed me not me disappointing them.

Please... stop. Are you looking for our approval for for bandwagon jumping? Forget it.

LOL. He definitely keeps trying to justify it. I don't know why . . . if you want to switch teams, it's best to do it as quietly as possible. You blend in better that way, and have a better chance at passing off as a [fill-in-the-blank] fan all along.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:33 pm

mweb08 wrote:Yes, but that's not a big as a factor as awful offensive coaching imo. An aging past his prime RB doesn't help either, and it's not like the receivers are anything to write home about.

Are you kidding???

1) With solid oline play, even the most simplistic offense can look good (i.e. Gibbs offense in 2005, and end of 2007)

2) With better Oline play, the aging RB might have better holes to run through, even if he IS a tad slower.

3) If the Oline gives the QB more time to throw, our receivers would look better.

So, while I'm upset with this team's performance, to NOT ackowledge the Oline as THE biggest problem (after the QB change) is a glaring omission.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:35 pm

brad7686 wrote:Well everybody who doesn't realize the OL is important got their wish today. The qb was changed and nothing happened. Those people probably still don't realize that the OL is important.

No brad. Remember, it's ALL JASON CAMPBELL'S FAULT.

It's Jason Campbell's fault that Todd Collins was throwing 3rd down dump offs short of the marker. It's Campbell's fault that Collins didn't see a wide open Fred Davis.

It's plainly Jason Campbell's fault that Collins got nailed for a safety (and should have had another, with the intentional-grounding no-call).

IT'S ALL JASON CAMPBELL'S FAULT!!!

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:37 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
brad7686 wrote:Well everybody who doesn't realize the OL is important got their wish today. The qb was changed and nothing happened. Those people probably still don't realize that the OL is important.

No brad. Remember, it's ALL JASON CAMPBELL'S FAULT.

It's Jason Campbell's fault that Todd Collins was throwing 3rd down dump offs short of the marker. It's his fault he didn't see a wide open Fred Davis.

It's plainly Jason Campbell's fault that he got nailed for a safety (and should have had another, with the intentional-grounding no-call).

IT'S ALL JASON CAMPBELL'S FAULT!!!

I'm glad you're strating to see the truth. Let it set you FREE!!!! :lol:

mweb08 · Post by **mweb08** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:41 pm

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
mweb08 wrote:Yes, but that's not a big as a factor as awful offensive coaching imo. An aging past his prime RB doesn't help either, and it's not like the receivers are anything to write home about.

Are you kidding???

1) With solid oline play, even the most simplistic offense can look good (i.e. Gibbs offense in 2005, and end of 2007)

2) With better Oline play, the aging RB might have better holes to run through, even if he IS a tad slower.

3) If the Oline gives the QB more time to throw, our receivers would look better.

So, while I'm upset with this team's performance, to NOT ackowledge the Oline as THE biggest problem (after the QB change) is a glaring omission.

To think that QB was the biggest problem, but now is not is absolutely absurd since QB hasn't even been upgraded and wasn't the biggest problem to begin with.

Gibbs playcalling and especially his coaching was much better than Zorn's, plus Portis was much better at that time.

Zorn is just awful. It's not about simple or complex, it's about good and bad. If you have awful coaching and playcalling on offense, you're not going to score many points.

Yeah, the O-Line is also a big problem, but it wasn't that much of a problem until the Samuels went down(not saying it was good, but it wasn't awful), and the offense still didn't produce.

Regardless of order, those are the two biggest issues on offense, not QB, and that's regardless of who starts.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:41 pm

RayNAustin wrote:What a ridiculous comment. The guy hasn't played since 2007, and after 30 minutes, you have proof. I expected such nonsense.

Collins looked rusty, and Heyer looked as if he was sleeping. At least Collins was able to make a play downfield when he was given time.

Wait! I thought that Collins flew off the bench on his angel wings in the Bears game in 2007 and began throwing touchdown strikes immediately like Zeus himself fired thunderbolts? Haven't you repeatedly said that Collins immediately made the offense look better when he was put in? And he was even more rusty...last time the dude started a game before that was 1997...so he had 10 years rust and still came out and was your football messiah.

Now you're making excuses for him? Isn't that what you constantly harp about with people talking about Campbell?

Awesome! Hint. Next excuse you can use is that he's in a new offense and has to learn it still.

BeeGee · Post by **BeeGee** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:05 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:What a ridiculous comment. The guy hasn't played since 2007, and after 30 minutes, you have proof. I expected such nonsense.

Collins looked rusty, and Heyer looked as if he was sleeping. At least Collins was able to make a play downfield when he was given time.

Wait! I thought that Collins flew off the bench on his angel wings in the Bears game in 2007 and began throwing touchdown strikes immediately like Zeus himself fired thunderbolts? Haven't you repeatedly said that Collins immediately made the offense look better when he was put in? And he was even more rusty...last time the dude started a game before that was 1997...so he had 10 years rust and still came out and was your football messiah.

Now you're making excuses for him? Isn't that what you constantly harp about with people talking about Campbell?

Awesome! Hint. Next excuse you can use is that he's in a new offense and has to learn it still.

Boom

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:20 pm

Wow. Let the implosion continue. Did you see Zorn's face as he was jogging off the field? He looked like he was just told his dog got run over by a car.

When I heard Zorn talk post game, I heard a guy seriously questioning his own abilities as a football coach. Felt bad for him.

But now, the poop has hit the fan. We have a QB controversy (like it matters --- two second-string QBs battling it out to see who gets the opportunity to get sacked the most), a coach questioning his abilities, a GM that is horrendous, an owner that won't address the fans and that everyone hates.....what's next???

This may be one of the worst seasons we have had in washington since the early 90s, but it is one of the most entertaining. I would much perfer winning, but at least there is some drama. But don't worry this is how change happens --- making people accountable is what gets things done.

BeeGee · Post by **BeeGee** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:26 pm

markshark84 wrote:When I heard Zorn talk post game, I heard a guy seriously questioning his own abilities as a football coach. Felt bad for him.

Agree 100%

He's a combination of bewildered, dumbfounded, discouraged, and depressed, all to a severe degree. He's taking full responsibility though.

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:30 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:What a ridiculous comment. The guy hasn't played since 2007, and after 30 minutes, you have proof. I expected such nonsense.

Collins looked rusty, and Heyer looked as if he was sleeping. At least Collins was able to make a play downfield when he was given time.

Wait! I thought that Collins flew off the bench on his angel wings in the Bears game in 2007 and began throwing touchdown strikes immediately like Zeus himself fired thunderbolts? Haven't you repeatedly said that Collins immediately made the offense look better when he was put in? And he was even more rusty...last time the dude started a game before that was 1997...so he had 10 years rust and still came out and was your football messiah.

Now you're making excuses for him? Isn't that what you constantly harp about with people talking about Campbell?

Awesome! Hint. Next excuse you can use is that he's in a new offense and has to learn it still.

The "excuses" are the best part of his post! The biggest complaint before was "excuses" if anyone pointed out that there were other factors in performance. It doesn't matter which one plays QB at this point, the other deficiencies will continue to be the biggest problem. I'm sure Collins being in the game is the reason Portis went on a long run, and it's Campbells fault he got tackled.

The savior Collins was 6-14 and 75 yards. The goat Campbell was 9-16 for 89 yards. After his first pass, Collins generated 33 yards on 13 passes. Woohoo!

Now that we've got Campbell out of there and the QB is no longer sabotaging the team, we can resume our scheduled march to the Super Bowl! :lol:

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:42 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:What a ridiculous comment. The guy hasn't played since 2007, and after 30 minutes, you have proof. I expected such nonsense.

Collins looked rusty, and Heyer looked as if he was sleeping. At least Collins was able to make a play downfield when he was given time.

Wait! I thought that Collins flew off the bench on his angel wings in the Bears game in 2007 and began throwing touchdown strikes immediately like Zeus himself fired thunderbolts? Haven't you repeatedly said that Collins immediately made the offense look better when he was put in? And he was even more rusty...last time the dude started a game before that was 1997...so he had 10 years rust and still came out and was your football messiah.

Now you're making excuses for him? Isn't that what you constantly harp about with people talking about Campbell?

Awesome! Hint. Next excuse you can use is that he's in a new offense and has to learn it still.

Your point is that in 30 minutes, Collins proved to you what Campbell's poor play didn't prove to you in 5 full games this year?

Whatever you say ... I anticipated this ... you're right of course ... Collins played jut about as poorly as did Campbell. But I don't think it's a a big reach to recall that the guy hasn't played since 2007.

Contrary to much of the first half where Campbell was actually getting some decent pass pro, there was zero pass pro in the second half, with Heyer making a complete fool of himself.

To ignore that fact may play to your point, but is intellectually dishonest.

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:53 pm

Some of you guys got really feisty against us posters who actually saw that this would happen.

You called us bad fanatics, questioned our loyalty. We just saw irrevocable signs that things were not being operated correctly.

But we are realists. We love our team as much, if not more, than those who prefer to ignore reality. And we hurt. Of course we hope for the team to win, like some 8 year old boy who hopes that Santa will leave for him that 3,000 dollar toy his parents will never buy for him.

These team is imploding. I said two or three ago. There is no turning back. It has no order or structure and the FO is as responsible as the guys who play in fielding this pathetic spectacle.

mweb08 · Post by **mweb08** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:54 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:What a ridiculous comment. The guy hasn't played since 2007, and after 30 minutes, you have proof. I expected such nonsense.

Collins looked rusty, and Heyer looked as if he was sleeping. At least Collins was able to make a play downfield when he was given time.

Wait! I thought that Collins flew off the bench on his angel wings in the Bears game in 2007 and began throwing touchdown strikes immediately like Zeus himself fired thunderbolts? Haven't you repeatedly said that Collins immediately made the offense look better when he was put in? And he was even more rusty...last time the dude started a game before that was 1997...so he had 10 years rust and still came out and was your football messiah.

Now you're making excuses for him? Isn't that what you constantly harp about with people talking about Campbell?

Awesome! Hint. Next excuse you can use is that he's in a new offense and has to learn it still.

Your point is that in 30 minutes, Collins proved to you what Campbell's poor play didn't prove to you in 5 full games this year?

Whatever you say ... I anticipated this ... you're right of course ... Collins played jut about as poorly as did Campbell. But I don't think it's a a big reach to recall that the guy hasn't played since 2007.

Contrary to much of the first half where Campbell was actually getting some decent pass pro, there was zero pass pro in the second half, with Heyer making a complete fool of himself.

To ignore that fact may play to your point, but is intellectually dishonest.

Perhaps you shouldn't ignore that JC played much better in those 5 games than he or Collins did today.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:01 pm

I just got back in town and watched the game. Wow - offensively we are a very terrible team. Defensively, we are pretty good. Collins had a great throw in the 2nd half but outside of that, he did nothing but dump. One thing I noticed is the plays that were called for Collins single read and then dump. There was always an outlet like cooley or a RB who was just sitting by the l.o.s. to the right or left.

We all know what needs to be fixed but want to take my hat off to the defense today. Haynesworth played lights out and Andre Carter and Orakpo were amazing. Really good.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:11 pm

And just let me add that I don't think Zorn made the QB switch because of my suggestions. I think it was that he felt that Collins couldn't do much worse.