How to fix this O Line quick

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:00 pm

I know free agency is what has gotten us in trouble to begin with but here ya go....

Sign LT Marcus McNeil. He is considered 1 of the if not the best LT in the game and he is 25. Right now he is going to be a FA at the end of the yr. Yes your going pay a ton but I think we can all agree we need a line.

1st Rounder - RG Draft the best available G and we should be able to get a stud G. Seeing that we have a high pick I would imagine we would get the cream of the crop at G

2nd Rounder - Center. Again, this should get us a cream of the crop Center as the good ones start going about here. Might get a chance to take the best available again.

3rd Rounder - None

4th Rounder - Tackle. Draft the best available tackle here simply for depth.

- If we could devote these 3 picks to the O Line and pull a cream of the crop FA, our line might be pretty good pretty fast.

This is what the line would look like:
LT-McNeil, LG-Dockery, C-Rookie, RG-Rookie,RT-Samuels

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:59 pm

Move Samuels to RT?

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:09 pm

McNeill isn't going to be on the market next year. He's not the best LT in the league (pick one of Joe Thomas/Ryan Clady/Michael Roos or maybe Jason Peters if he ever plays like it's 2007 again), but he's too good for the Chargers not to tag him.

Samuels would be wasted at RT. He still has the agility to handle speed rushers, but the weight he lost to ease up on his knees have hurt his power game. He's not strong enough to be the road grader we need in the running game.

The best thing we can do now to fix the OL is call Levi Jones. Beyond? Either fire Joe Bugel or give him the players he needs, drafting two a year in round 4 or higher until we get there. The good news is that we're not shaping up to compete next year barring a HUGE development by at least two of Thomas/Kelly/Davis, so there's a window to find enough players while the QB/RB situation gets fixed.

Californiaskin · Post by **Californiaskin** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:18 pm

Paralis wrote:McNeill isn't going to be on the market next year. He's not the best LT in the league (pick one of Joe Thomas/Ryan Clady/Michael Roos or maybe Jason Peters if he ever plays like it's 2007 again), but he's too good for the Chargers not to tag him.

Samuels would be wasted at RT. He still has the agility to handle speed rushers, but the weight he lost to ease up on his knees have hurt his power game. He's not strong enough to be the road grader we need in the running game.

The best thing we can do now to fix the OL is call Levi Jones. Beyond? Either fire Joe Bugel or give him the players he needs, drafting two a year in round 4 or higher until we get there. The good news is that we're not shaping up to compete next year barring a HUGE development by at least two of Thomas/Kelly/Davis, so there's a window to find enough players while the QB/RB situation gets fixed.

dabrickashaw ferguson....best young tackle in football

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:30 pm

Even the Jets don't think that. Ferguson has all the liabilities of a 2009 Chris Samuels but doesn't have the broken-down knees to justify playing so light. If Ferguson were a complete LT, Alan Faneca wouldn't be playing in the Meadowlands.

To expand on earlier comments, still call Levi Jones and put him at either tackle position. Get Pete Kendall back at LG and move Dock to RG.

Next year? Scout the trash heap for new coaches. Gary Kubiak's looking like a solid bet to get fired at the end of the year; if so, Alex Gibbs is a likely FA. I don't want to see Shanahan getting final say over personnel, but at this point, getting him at HC and Gibbs coaching the OL is miles better than any of the likely alternatives...

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:15 am

skins2357 wrote:I know free agency is what has gotten us in trouble to begin with but here ya go....

Sign LT Marcus McNeil. He is considered 1 of the if not the best LT in the game and he is 25. Right now he is going to be a FA at the end of the yr. Yes your going pay a ton but I think we can all agree we need a line.

1st Rounder - RG Draft the best available G and we should be able to get a stud G. Seeing that we have a high pick I would imagine we would get the cream of the crop at G

2nd Rounder - Center. Again, this should get us a cream of the crop Center as the good ones start going about here. Might get a chance to take the best available again.

3rd Rounder - None

4th Rounder - Tackle. Draft the best available tackle here simply for depth.

- If we could devote these 3 picks to the O Line and pull a cream of the crop FA, our line might be pretty good pretty fast.

This is what the line would look like:
LT-McNeil, LG-Dockery, C-Rookie, RG-Rookie,RT-Samuels

Sounds good, but that leaves us with Colt Brennan starting at QB. If they are in possition to get a franchise QB in the draft next year they have to do it. But other than that I wouldn't mind them using EVERY pick on an OL.

ArlingtonSkinsFan · Post by **ArlingtonSkinsFan** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:26 am

Paralis wrote:Even the Jets don't think that. Ferguson has all the liabilities of a 2009 Chris Samuels but doesn't have the broken-down knees to justify playing so light. If Ferguson were a complete LT, Alan Faneca wouldn't be playing in the Meadowlands.

To expand on earlier comments, still call Levi Jones and put him at either tackle position. Get Pete Kendall back at LG and move Dock to RG.

Next year? Scout the trash heap for new coaches. Gary Kubiak's looking like a solid bet to get fired at the end of the year; if so, Alex Gibbs is a likely FA. I don't want to see Shanahan getting final say over personnel, but at this point, getting him at HC and Gibbs coaching the OL is miles better than any of the likely alternatives...

Gibbs coaching OLINE?????? Why would he want to do that for a rebuilding team?

dmwc · Post by **dmwc** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:32 am

skins2357 wrote: RT-Samuels

Yo he is pretty much done...

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:56 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
skins2357 wrote:I know free agency is what has gotten us in trouble to begin with but here ya go....

Sign LT Marcus McNeil. He is considered 1 of the if not the best LT in the game and he is 25. Right now he is going to be a FA at the end of the yr. Yes your going pay a ton but I think we can all agree we need a line.

1st Rounder - RG Draft the best available G and we should be able to get a stud G. Seeing that we have a high pick I would imagine we would get the cream of the crop at G

2nd Rounder - Center. Again, this should get us a cream of the crop Center as the good ones start going about here. Might get a chance to take the best available again.

3rd Rounder - None

4th Rounder - Tackle. Draft the best available tackle here simply for depth.

- If we could devote these 3 picks to the O Line and pull a cream of the crop FA, our line might be pretty good pretty fast.

This is what the line would look like:
LT-McNeil, LG-Dockery, C-Rookie, RG-Rookie,RT-Samuels

Sounds good, but that leaves us with Colt Brennan starting at QB. If they are in possition to get a franchise QB in the draft next year they have to do it. But other than that I wouldn't mind them using EVERY pick on an OL.

Unfortunately, OT's are only good in the first round. Because teams not named the Redskins realize they are important.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:36 am

McNeil is ABSOLUTELY one of the best young tackles in the league. All those other guys are good too but MCNeil is a stud. 3 yrs in the league, 2 Pro Bowls.

Samuels may still be able to play LT but if you were to get someone like McNeil then you can move Samuels to RT to extend his career.

I mentioned that next yr would still be a development yr, so yea Colt B is fine. See what he looks like with a good O Line. If he struggles, then you draft a Qb the following yr where you could plug him into a good O Line which would ease the development process (See Sanchez)

oneman56 · Post by **oneman56** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:29 am

ArlingtonSkinsFan wrote:
Paralis wrote:Even the Jets don't think that. Ferguson has all the liabilities of a 2009 Chris Samuels but doesn't have the broken-down knees to justify playing so light. If Ferguson were a complete LT, Alan Faneca wouldn't be playing in the Meadowlands.

To expand on earlier comments, still call Levi Jones and put him at either tackle position. Get Pete Kendall back at LG and move Dock to RG.

Next year? Scout the trash heap for new coaches. Gary Kubiak's looking like a solid bet to get fired at the end of the year; if so, Alex Gibbs is a likely FA. I don't want to see Shanahan getting final say over personnel, but at this point, getting him at HC and Gibbs coaching the OL is miles better than any of the likely alternatives...

Gibbs coaching OLINE?????? Why would he want to do that for a rebuilding team?

Seeing as how Alex Gibbs is considered one of the best OL coaches why wouldn't he want to?

so.il.SKINSFAN · Post by **so.il.SKINSFAN** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:32 am

brad7686 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
skins2357 wrote:I know free agency is what has gotten us in trouble to begin with but here ya go....

Sign LT Marcus McNeil. He is considered 1 of the if not the best LT in the game and he is 25. Right now he is going to be a FA at the end of the yr. Yes your going pay a ton but I think we can all agree we need a line.

1st Rounder - RG Draft the best available G and we should be able to get a stud G. Seeing that we have a high pick I would imagine we would get the cream of the crop at G

2nd Rounder - Center. Again, this should get us a cream of the crop Center as the good ones start going about here. Might get a chance to take the best available again.

3rd Rounder - None

4th Rounder - Tackle. Draft the best available tackle here simply for depth.

- If we could devote these 3 picks to the O Line and pull a cream of the crop FA, our line might be pretty good pretty fast.

This is what the line would look like:
LT-McNeil, LG-Dockery, C-Rookie, RG-Rookie,RT-Samuels

Sounds good, but that leaves us with Colt Brennan starting at QB. If they are in possition to get a franchise QB in the draft next year they have to do it. But other than that I wouldn't mind them using EVERY pick on an OL.

Unfortunately, OT's are only good in the first round. Because teams not named the Redskins realize they are important.

LMAO!!!!

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:23 am

Don't think it will be easy...
It looks as if there is not going to be a CBA done before next year. So the pool of starting OL will not be there in Free Agency because…
You will have to have been in the league for 6 years to become a FA
Teams will get two franchise tags
Also there will be a “final 8” rule that will limit (free agency) for each team left in the playoffs so they will be looking to resign their players.
All this means a reduced pool of availible starting talent and if I’m a GM I’m keeping my OL you can plug in skill players.
So with no cap I’d keep my high picks and take OL and look to steal some skill players in free agency.
Bottom line…it could be a while before we see a good line around here if no CBA is reached.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:47 pm

brad7686 wrote:Unfortunately, OT's are only good in the first round. Because teams not named the Redskins realize they are important.

Not so fast. That is what everyone wants you to think and yes all of the highly thought of OT go in the first round but great OL can be had everywhere in the draft. Here are the top five OL in several categories and where there line was drafted from LT to RT:

Run:
Miami: 1/2/2/6/1
Saints: 4/5/5/4/2 Lots of high draft picks there
Cowgirls: 2/7/2/1*/1 *drafted by the Cards to be a LT, but flopped
Giants: 5/UD/UD/2/3 Lots of high draft picks there
Broncos: 1/4/UD/5/3

Pass - yards:
Indy: 6/UD/UD/2/4 Lots of high draft picks there
Chargers: 2/UD/7/3/6 Lots of high draft picks there
Cards: 3/6/UD/2/1
Steelers: 3/6/6/3/4
Texans: 1/6/6/3/3
Several bad lines there with good QBs!

Pass - sacks alowed - fewest:
Falcons: 1/2/7/UD/UD 2 hiigh picks then "SCRUBS"
Indy: 6/UD/UD/2/4
Giants: 5/UD/UD/2/3
Saints: 4/5/5/4/2
Pats: 2/1/5/UD/3

NO BOOK END FIRST ROUND OTs IN ANY OF THESE!

Now the BAD:
sacks allowed - from the bottom:
Packers: 2/2/3/4/4
Bills: 7/2/5/1/5
Lions: 1/4/2/3/1 (Lots of high picks and bookend 1st rnd OT)
Chiefs: 1/UD/UD/3/5 (overall higher picks then the Giants)
Niners: 1/2/7/2/3 (again several high picks)

Rushing yards per game - from the bottom:
Chargers: 2/UD/7/3/6
Cards: 3/6/UD/2/1
Texans: 1/6/6/3/3
Indy: 6/UD/UD/2/4
Raiders: 3/7/2/4/UD (Robert Gallery there 1st rounder (2nd overall is noe the third LG)

Skins' starting line up last week was: 1/3/3/1/UD
This week it will either be UD/3/3/3/1 or UD/3/3/UD/1

My point from all of that is, it doesn't matter where they are drafted as long as they can play. And just because you use high picks on a line doesn't mean it will be good - ask the LIONS!

We deperately need better OL - I just don't care how we get them. A change at QB (for the better) would improve all of the ones we have.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:16 pm

The problem with going after McNeil is that we are right back where we were with paying high for FAs.

Here's a thought.... Why not go after Alex Gibbs?? Buges was great in his time but it is now showing that Buges may not have it anymore. He's been through alot and looks like he's physically and mentally done.. There is also Mark Schlerth sitting out there that could probably do a great job as O-Line coach. He's been here, he's been in the Denver system.

In addition to adding O-Line coaching do like poster did and draft OL with all but one of your picks. Save that one pick for a LB. Resign Rocky but draft a SLB and put Orakpo on his knuckles next to Fat Albert....

RedskinTexan · Post by **RedskinTexan** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:32 pm

It will take several draft choices and some free agent signings to soldify the offensive line for next season.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:59 pm

RedskinTexan wrote:It will take several draft choices and some free agent signings to soldify the offensive line for next season.

I agree - now let's say we select 4-5 offensive lineman in the upcoming draft AND we bring in 2 FA offensive lineman

- NOW, given that Cerrato and his scouts are making the selections, as they have till now, how many of those players do you think are going to start AND be good players on our team in the next 2 years?
Maybe 3, in my opinion, tops :shock:

see my problem is that while Cerrato and his group can bring in 'players' we have not seen a lot of success from him when we have specific needs (look at the top 3 picks from last year - I'm still hopeful, but ...) - there have been players that they have found that have worked out fine but when we have asked this group for a specific position, can't miss player, in the lower rounds they cannot seem to manage that as well as other teams
Cerrato's group needs to do their job much better so that we have better depth

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:09 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
brad7686 wrote:Unfortunately, OT's are only good in the first round. Because teams not named the Redskins realize they are important.

Not so fast. That is what everyone wants you to think and yes all of the highly thought of OT go in the first round but great OL can be had everywhere in the draft. Here are the top five OL in several categories and where there line was drafted from LT to RT:

Run:
Miami: 1/2/2/6/1
Saints: 4/5/5/4/2 Lots of high draft picks there
Cowgirls: 2/7/2/1*/1 *drafted by the Cards to be a LT, but flopped
Giants: 5/UD/UD/2/3 Lots of high draft picks there
Broncos: 1/4/UD/5/3

Pass - yards:
Indy: 6/UD/UD/2/4 Lots of high draft picks there
Chargers: 2/UD/7/3/6 Lots of high draft picks there
Cards: 3/6/UD/2/1
Steelers: 3/6/6/3/4
Texans: 1/6/6/3/3
Several bad lines there with good QBs!

Pass - sacks alowed - fewest:
Falcons: 1/2/7/UD/UD 2 hiigh picks then "SCRUBS"
Indy: 6/UD/UD/2/4
Giants: 5/UD/UD/2/3
Saints: 4/5/5/4/2
Pats: 2/1/5/UD/3

NO BOOK END FIRST ROUND OTs IN ANY OF THESE!

Now the BAD:
sacks allowed - from the bottom:
Packers: 2/2/3/4/4
Bills: 7/2/5/1/5
Lions: 1/4/2/3/1 (Lots of high picks and bookend 1st rnd OT)
Chiefs: 1/UD/UD/3/5 (overall higher picks then the Giants)
Niners: 1/2/7/2/3 (again several high picks)

Rushing yards per game - from the bottom:
Chargers: 2/UD/7/3/6
Cards: 3/6/UD/2/1
Texans: 1/6/6/3/3
Indy: 6/UD/UD/2/4
Raiders: 3/7/2/4/UD (Robert Gallery there 1st rounder (2nd overall is noe the third LG)

Skins' starting line up last week was: 1/3/3/1/UD
This week it will either be UD/3/3/3/1 or UD/3/3/UD/1

My point from all of that is, it doesn't matter where they are drafted as long as they can play. And just because you use high picks on a line doesn't mean it will be good - ask the LIONS!

We deperately need better OL - I just don't care how we get them. A change at QB (for the better) would improve all of the ones we have.

Come on, do a little research next time to back up your post. :shock:

How long did that take you?

Unfortunately, as long as Mr. Burns and Smithers are running the show, it probably won't matter if they draft O-line, QB, or any other position. We'll be lucky if they don't listen to one of the posters the other day and use the first rounder on a safety.

The Oline versus QB thing is a chicken/egg argument. Even if you like Campbell, he is almost certainly gone at the end of the year, so they need both. A good line can make a marginal QB look good (see Denver) and vice versa. Hopefully the team will not make any decisions until they evaluate who is available and make a plan based on the evaluations. Given the history of the team, I'd personally rather see them build the O-line first. The odds of hitting on a first round QB to me are much lower than hitting on a first round OT.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:35 pm

I think a great offensive line can help a QB but we all know a great QB will give a team a much better chance at success over a much longer term - teams that have a HOF caliber QB will generally find a way to give him an offensive line that will make the team around him even better.

ALL teams should have very good offensive and defensive lines but the single most important part of a team is the QB - if you are starting from scratch the first player almost everyone would pick will be the best QB available - now, why do you think that is a fact? :roll:

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:02 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I think a great offensive line can help a QB but we all know a great QB will give a team a much better chance at success over a much longer term - teams that have a HOF caliber QB will generally find a way to give him an offensive line that will make the team around him even better.

ALL teams should have very good offensive and defensive lines but the single most important part of a team is the QB - if you are starting from scratch the first player almost everyone would pick will be the best QB available - now, why do you think that is a fact?

It's not a fact that almost everyone would go with a QB. There are plenty of examples, like Miami last year, of the team going O-line first then getting a QB later. There are other examples of teams drafting the QB first, like Carr in Houston, and the QB never having a chance to develop because they get pounded behind a terrible line.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to the QB or Oline question. Obviously if you can get Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, that's the way you go, but players like that don't come out every year.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:13 pm

What I was pointing out is that if you did not have a team and were putting one together and were allowed to select any player - I just believe that the reason that you would pick a QB first is an indication that this is the most important position on the field - end of story :lol:

now, with the coming draft, and given where I think we are selecting, if there was a cannot miss offensive lineman available when we pick and a good QB I would select the offensive lineman because I believe we cannot take the chance on a QB - we are better off bringing in someone to be our QB (Campbell is not here next year) until we can get a really good to great QB to be our QB for the future - that does not have to be in this draft unless there is a cannot miss superstar QB available :wink:

all of this is kind of wishing and hoping because the guys in charge here have not been able to get a great QB in here for 10 years so why should they suddenly be able to accomplish that?

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:04 am

skins2357 wrote:Sign LT Marcus McNeil. He is considered 1 of the if not the best LT in the game and he is 25. Right now he is going to be a FA at the end of the yr. Yes your going pay a ton but I think we can all agree we need a line.

You seriously think San Diego won't franchise tag him?

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:05 pm

If they dont then we jump all over him. I was looking at the FA list of tackles available and I was impressed by the names. If Samuels is truly out for good then this is what I propose....

LT - Sign a FA
LG - Dockery
C - Rabach ( I would love a replacement but we will have to wait a yr)
RG - Rookie (2nd Rounder)
RT - Rookie (1st ROunder)

Backup - Heyer (T)
Backup - M. Williams (G)
Backup - Montgomery (G/T)
Backup - Rookie 4th Rounder (G/C)

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:06 pm

If they dont then we jump all over him. I was looking at the FA list of tackles available and I was impressed by the names. If Samuels is truly out for good then this is what I propose....

LT - Sign a FA
LG - Dockery
C - Rabach ( I would love a replacement but we will have to wait a yr)
RG - Rookie (2nd Rounder)
RT - Rookie (1st ROunder)

Backup - Heyer (T)
Backup - M. Williams (G)
Backup - Montgomery (G/T)
Backup - Rookie 4th Rounder (G/C)

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:50 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
skins2357 wrote:Sign LT Marcus McNeil. He is considered 1 of the if not the best LT in the game and he is 25. Right now he is going to be a FA at the end of the yr. Yes your going pay a ton but I think we can all agree we need a line.

You seriously think San Diego won't franchise tag him?

and with no CBA in site there will be two tags next year for each team.

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