Holgrem AND Zorn?

[SnyderSucks]

His offnse is not the problem. Its the same offense that worked in Seattle arguably. The problem is his playcalling. Thats where Holgrem comes in to be the new playcaller and coach. Zorn sees how it should be and continues to learn under him.


As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

Casserly? In case you are wondering, I believe Houston is still looking for it's first winning season. He was good at trading, though.

I'd put Gruden at the bottom of the list of big name coaches to bring in. I've read numerous times that his personality wears on the team after a couple of years and they tune him out. He was on the radio this morning with Rich Gannon. He told a story he thought was funny, sounded more like Gannon hated it. Each week he'd show Gannon tape of Peyton Manning and how great he was, and say he wished he could trade for Manning, and how Gannon should play like Manning. He said he coached a pro bowl with both Gannon and Manning on the team. He told all of his coaches to Oooh and Aaah for all of Mannings passes just to irritate Gannon.

[ArlingtonSkinsFan]

Ultimately, all discussion of a GM is pointless* until the Danny decides that he needs one.

*senseless, aimless, fruitless, futile, impotent, inane, inconsequential, insignificant, irrelevant, meaningless, nonsensical, useless, vain, not pertinent, going nowhere, going in circles, ineffective, running on a treadmill, unproductive, unprofitable...

Danny!

but, then, I kind of like pointless... at times...

Take your argument to it's next step, and everything on this board is pointless...What, if anything, can the fans do to influence ownership? I still like the idea of a large group either showing up to the game and not going in, or showing up to Redskins park and protesting. Can you imagine the national coverage of 50,000 fans with tickets standing in the parking lot, not going into the game?

I don't think Snyder would be bothered by everyone buying tickets and not going into the stadium...they're still BUYING tickets! All he cares about is revenue, and it wouldn't be affected by this particular strategy. If you want to irk him you have to get season ticket holders to dump their tickets. Unfortunately, who wants to get in the back of a 20 year line??

I, and my cousins, have already dumped 8 season tickets this year. The ticket list is no where near 20 years. I signed up when they were still in RFK and got off a few years later when they built the new stadium. With the new stadium the turnover is much greater. Most of the people I know with tickets waited about 5 years, and with the economy now the wait might be down to a couple of years. The list isn't really as big as they claim - there are a lot of people on the list who have been offered tickets and have turned them down. I have a cousin who get's offered tickets every year, turns them down, and they call her again the next year. After I turned in my tickets, I got multiple calls, emails, and regular mail offering to sell me tickets. I fully expect to get offers for tickets next year. Until the team starts winning regularly, getting tickets won't be difficult.

In that case, BRING ON THE BOYCOTT!!

[SkinsJock]

boy oh boy lot's of constructive thinking going on here

[Gibbs4Life]

Shanahan

[nc skins]

haha , Who said that the coach isn't the problem? wow. Jim Zorn's playcalling is the laughingstock of every nfl show. The guy is absolutely clueless in the redzone.

I agree that we need a GM. But as long as Danny is the owner, Danny will make the calls. Its the same way with Jerry Jones.

Greg Blache needs to pick it up to. His schemes have not been to hot so far

[Redskin in Canada]

Shanahan

I knew I would not be dissapointed. Somebody had to agree with the Snyder tactic.

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#469730

At a boy G4L, ata boy.

[skinsfan#33]

As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

On sugject, I don't what Holmgrem as a coach or a GM. He isn't a very good coach and is a bad GM.

Cower wasn't the GM in P-Burge and he was fine with it.

Casserly, brought you these first round picks:
Bobby Wilson, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Suler, Michael Westbrook, Andre Johnson (worst draft pick ever), Kenard Lang, and Champ Bailey.

He also only drafted three probowl players; S. Davis, B Mitch, and Frerotte.

Synder/Vinny first round picks:
Arrinton, Samuals, Ramsey, Taylor, Campbell, Rogers, Landry, Orakpo.
(Gardner was the General's pick, Snyder wanted Santana)

You can say you don't like how Synder/Vinny has drafted, but don't ask for Casserly back because that is a step down from what we have.
YES, IT CAN GET WORSE!

By the way, the years after Gibbs one until Snyder took over were worse than the years Snyder has been in charge.

Don't allow people to tell you want to think, do it for yourself!

[fleetus]

As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

Cower wasn't the GM in P-Burge and he was fine with it.

Casserly, brought you these first round picks:
Bobby Wilson, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Suler, Michael Westbrook, Andre Johnson (worst draft pick ever), Kenard Lang, and Champ Bailey.

He also only drafted three probowl players; S. Davis, B Mitch, and Frerotte.

Synder/Vinny first round picks:
Arrinton, Samuals, Ramsey, Taylor, Campbell, Rogers, Landry, Orakpo.
(Gardner was the General's pick, Snyder wanted Santana)

You can say you don't like how Synder/Vinny has drafted, but don't ask for Casserly back because that is a step down from what we have.
YES, IT CAN GET WORSE!

By the way, the years after Gibbs one until Snyder took over were worse than the years Snyder has been in charge.

Don't allow people to tell you want to think, do it for yourself!

I can't imagine any coach coming out of retirement to be HC of this franchise. Several have stated they would not work for Snyder. Hell, before Zorn was hired, there wasn't exactly a line of top coaches interviewing for the position.

If Snyder wants to lure a guy like Cowher, Holmgren, Shanahan, he's going to have to give up control. Neither he or Jerry Jones have succeeded playing owner/GM and each of them are led around by their egos despite the obvious lack of football success. (funny, they both make plenty of money... )

[DEHog]

As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

On sugject, I don't what Holmgrem as a coach or a GM. He isn't a very good coach and is a bad GM.

Cower wasn't the GM in P-Burge and he was fine with it.

Casserly, brought you these first round picks:
Bobby Wilson, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Suler, Michael Westbrook, Andre Johnson (worst draft pick ever), Kenard Lang, and Champ Bailey.

He also only drafted three probowl players; S. Davis, B Mitch, and Frerotte.

Synder/Vinny first round picks:
Arrinton, Samuals, Ramsey, Taylor, Campbell, Rogers, Landry, Orakpo.
(Gardner was the General's pick, Snyder wanted Santana)

You can say you don't like how Synder/Vinny has drafted, but don't ask for Casserly back because that is a step down from what we have.
YES, IT CAN GET WORSE!

By the way, the years after Gibbs one until Snyder took over were worse than the years Snyder has been in charge.

Don't allow people to tell you want to think, do it for yourself!

That's only half the story...no mention of picks traded away, FA signings or trades??

[skinsfan#33]

As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

On sugject, I don't what Holmgrem as a coach or a GM. He isn't a very good coach and is a bad GM.

Cower wasn't the GM in P-Burge and he was fine with it.

Casserly, brought you these first round picks:
Bobby Wilson, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Suler, Michael Westbrook, Andre Johnson (worst draft pick ever), Kenard Lang, and Champ Bailey.

He also only drafted three probowl players; S. Davis, B Mitch, and Frerotte.

Synder/Vinny first round picks:
Arrinton, Samuals, Ramsey, Taylor, Campbell, Rogers, Landry, Orakpo.
(Gardner was the General's pick, Snyder wanted Santana)

You can say you don't like how Synder/Vinny has drafted, but don't ask for Casserly back because that is a step down from what we have.
YES, IT CAN GET WORSE!

By the way, the years after Gibbs one until Snyder took over were worse than the years Snyder has been in charge.

Don't allow people to tell you want to think, do it for yourself!

That's only half the story...no mention of picks traded away, FA signings or trades??

No but Casserly had his fair share of bone headed trades too.

[skins2357]

I thought Casserlie did a fine job in Houston. I think the best move was drafting Mario Williams ahead of Bush which NOONE saw coming at the time.

[DEHog]

I thought Casserlie did a fine job in Houston. I think the best move was drafting Mario Williams ahead of Bush which NOONE saw coming at the time.

To be fair he didn't have to make the choice...Bush wouldn't sign in Houston.

[skinsfan#33]

I can't imagine any coach coming out of retirement to be HC of this franchise. Several have stated they would not work for Snyder. Hell, before Zorn was hired, there wasn't exactly a line of top coaches interviewing for the position.

Really, you have actually heard one of those coaches say he wouldn't work for Snyder? Because I haven't. I have seen a lot of report that say they have heard from the sister of the mechanic that maintains coach XYZ's car that the coach would never work for the Danny. I have NEVER heard or sw a quote directly from a coach that said he wouldn't work for Snyder. And even if they did what does that mean. Schotty said he couldn't work for the Danny a few months before he agreed to work for him.

The Danny interviewed what 6,7, 8 people before he hired Zorn, so there must have been some line. Heck Fassel was livid that he didn't get the job (and I'm glad!).

Stop listening to all to lies the media puts out there. Think for your self!

[Skinsfan55]

The argument against Holmgren is just retarded.

The guy traded for Matt Hasselbeck and drafted Shaun Alexander, Darrell Jackson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, Heath Evans, Jerramy Stevens, Maurice Morris and Rocky Bernard. He also brought in Bobby Engram, Robbie Tobeck and others.

At least offensively the team that won the NFC championship was largely Holmgren's team.

He is a great football mind who's vision and implementation of the WCO won 1 Superbowl, 3 NFC titles and 8 divisional titles. If Holmgren came aboard as GM only (it's too much for one man to be coach and GM) and he brought some of his own people on board, that would be a huge boost for the Redskins. Imagine a staff who were working on all cylinders, veteran football people familiar with the same system and working to:

1.) Get players who fit the system.

2.) Make existing players conform to the system.

Imagine Holmgren as General Manager with his former assistant Jon Gruden as Head Coach. On the other side of the ball he would have another former Holmgren assistant in Ray Rhodes. Ray Rhodes was the DC for Holmgren for many years in Green Bay and in Seattle. They also worked together in San Fran. Also, Gruden worked for Rhodes as his OC in Philly. That would be a close knit group of guys with the understanding of what players are needed for that specific brand of the WCO. Holmgren has respect of both coaches and they would undoubtedly have an excellent working relationship. Fill in the rest of the coaching staff with your own imagination (Steve Mariucci as OC? Bill Callahan as QB coach, Dick Jauron as defensive backs coach?) but I just don't see how that plan could fail.

The Redskins need a cohesive and effective plan of attack. For years Dan Snyder has run the Redskins like a roto team. Constantly trying to get the "best" players but failing to account for the actual human element. As if he's signing guys based on "the Madden ratings" rather than their actual abilities on the field. With that coaching set up the Redskins will finally be able to start off with a plan and in 3 years they could become an elite team...

If Danny fires Zorn and lets Campbell walk... and keeps Vinny then we're really in for it. This team needs that fresh start, but also a plan to go along with it.

[Gibbs4Life]

Who we really need is Gregg Williams but...

[Sir_Monk]

The Redskins need a cohesive and effective plan of attack. For years Dan Snyder has run the Redskins like a roto team. Constantly trying to get the "best" players but failing to account for the actual human element. As if he's signing guys based on "the Madden ratings" rather than their actual abilities on the field. With that coaching set up the Redskins will finally be able to start off with a plan and in 3 years they could become an elite team...

If Danny fires Zorn and lets Campbell walk... and keeps Vinny then we're really in for it. This team needs that fresh start, but also a plan to go along with it.

It is not simply the matter of trying to build a team with the best possible free agents. The problem is building the team with the best possible free agents by offering more guaranteed money then anyone else.

[skinsfan#33]

Who we really need is Gregg Williams but...

He did SO well in Buffalo!