question on bugel?

oneman56 · Post by **oneman56** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:01 pm

I'm not an offensive line guy and won't even pretend to be one, that's why i'm posting this question on here. Has Buges lost some of his coaching ability? I mean, I see the larger issue to be with our front office and their lack of investing draft picks on linemen but is Bugel also part of the problem? We haven't developed a decent offensive linemen it seems like in forever. The hogs were a bunch of unknowns before he molded them so how come none of the offensive linemen have progressed since his return? This isn't to point all or even any blame on Bugel...it's just a question for some more knowledgeable o-line people who are probably on this board.

collins1 · Post by **collins1** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:07 pm

Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:13 pm

This is sacrilege, but I was having exactly the same thought about Bugel this morning. In the end though, I prefer to accept the argument that he's been given very little to work with. It's difficult when you have no worthwhile back-ups, and your starters are old and fragile.

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:25 pm

collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:33 pm

SnyderSucks wrote:
collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

This year especially, I read that we've changed our blocking scheme to zone blocking to alleviate some pressure off of JC.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:55 pm

The only lineman we've brought in was after the draft for free agent tryouts except Reinhart. We seem to only draft linebackers and D backs.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:01 pm

frankcal20 wrote:The only lineman we've brought in was after the draft for free agent tryouts except Reinhart. We seem to only draft linebackers and D backs.

Fire the FO....

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:11 pm

Buges is tired and I think losing his daughter has sapped the energy out of him. He just look exhausted.

I've wondered why the O-Line is better than what it is because he was the architect of, IMO, a HOF Offensive Line. To see this drop off or lack of improvement in what we have now under his tenure tells me that he's tired and has lost his snap. It's like there is no confidence whatsoever in running to Heyer's side. Maybe it's time for some young talent to step in as O-Line Coach and provide so pop. Why Schlerth hasn't been approached I don't?? I don't know if "Stink" is interested but I think he'd be a great candidate as O-Line Coach here....

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:13 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

This year especially, I read that we've changed our blocking scheme to zone blocking to alleviate some pressure off of JC.

I think this is exactly it. He has never coached this type of blocking scheme, so I'm not sure if he truely understands it.

I mean, this is further evidence that we need a GM. We have coaches and players on the team who are not familiar and do not fit the systems we run. We're trying to fit square pegs in round holes. It's out of control and ultimately, we don't have a GM with a plan. As a fan, I don't see any master plan. I'm sure the players feel the same way and they're giving up as well.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:37 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

This year especially, I read that we've changed our blocking scheme to zone blocking to alleviate some pressure off of JC.

I think this is exactly it. He has never coached this type of blocking scheme, so I'm not sure if he truely understands it.

I mean, this is further evidence that we need a GM. We have coaches and players on the team who are not familiar and do not fit the systems we run. We're trying to fit square pegs in round holes. It's out of control and ultimately, we don't have a GM with a plan. As a fan, I don't see any master plan. I'm sure the players feel the same way and they're giving up as well.

I believe they went to a zone blocking scheme last year... so, how do you explain the first 8 games of '08?

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:50 pm

Countertrey wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

This year especially, I read that we've changed our blocking scheme to zone blocking to alleviate some pressure off of JC.

I think this is exactly it. He has never coached this type of blocking scheme, so I'm not sure if he truely understands it.

I mean, this is further evidence that we need a GM. We have coaches and players on the team who are not familiar and do not fit the systems we run. We're trying to fit square pegs in round holes. It's out of control and ultimately, we don't have a GM with a plan. As a fan, I don't see any master plan. I'm sure the players feel the same way and they're giving up as well.

I believe they went to a zone blocking scheme last year... so, how do you explain the first 8 games of '08?

I don't think they did. I thought they changed this year

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:03 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

This year especially, I read that we've changed our blocking scheme to zone blocking to alleviate some pressure off of JC.

I think this is exactly it. He has never coached this type of blocking scheme, so I'm not sure if he truely understands it.

I mean, this is further evidence that we need a GM. We have coaches and players on the team who are not familiar and do not fit the systems we run. We're trying to fit square pegs in round holes. It's out of control and ultimately, we don't have a GM with a plan. As a fan, I don't see any master plan. I'm sure the players feel the same way and they're giving up as well.

I believe they went to a zone blocking scheme last year... so, how do you explain the first 8 games of '08?

I don't think they did. I thought they changed this year

From KC Joyner's NY Times NFL Blog

The Skins had a big group of O-linemen in 2008, with five of their seven starters (Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen, Stephon Heyer, Randy Thomas and Jason Fabini) topping the 300-pound mark. But that did not stop them from repeatedly calling zone-blocking run plays. They ran 128 slant plays for 532 yards and 81 stretch plays for 279 yards. The only other play they called as often as those zone-blocking runs was the draw (85 times for 419 yards).

I'm sure they used a zone blocking scheme last year...

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:44 pm

Countertrey wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
collins1 wrote:Whens the last time we drafted a lineman in the 1st 2 rounds- I believe It was when Samuels was picked.

It's possible that Bugel's arrival played a part in this. I remember a lot of stories about how Bugel was such a good coach that they could just draft late round guys and he'd develop them into pro bowlers, as they did with some of the original Hogs.

This year especially, I read that we've changed our blocking scheme to zone blocking to alleviate some pressure off of JC.

I think this is exactly it. He has never coached this type of blocking scheme, so I'm not sure if he truely understands it.

I mean, this is further evidence that we need a GM. We have coaches and players on the team who are not familiar and do not fit the systems we run. We're trying to fit square pegs in round holes. It's out of control and ultimately, we don't have a GM with a plan. As a fan, I don't see any master plan. I'm sure the players feel the same way and they're giving up as well.

I believe they went to a zone blocking scheme last year... so, how do you explain the first 8 games of '08?

I don't think they did. I thought they changed this year

From KC Joyner's NY Times NFL Blog
The Skins had a big group of O-linemen in 2008, with five of their seven starters (Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen, Stephon Heyer, Randy Thomas and Jason Fabini) topping the 300-pound mark. But that did not stop them from repeatedly calling zone-blocking run plays. They ran 128 slant plays for 532 yards and 81 stretch plays for 279 yards. The only other play they called as often as those zone-blocking runs was the draw (85 times for 419 yards).

I'm sure they used a zone blocking scheme last year...

Then he must suck now. Fire him too

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:19 pm

Buges is the best coach we have. Fire the other ones.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:07 am

I never heard anything about zone blocking for the oline last year. And TBH, I don't know how to recognize zone blocking vs non zone blocking, I was just going off what I recalled reading. I read the reasoning was to alleviate JC. Other than that, I'm cluless. I've never played ball so I don't know some of the inner working of schemes, but I can tell ya what doesn't work.

ArlingtonSkinsFan · Post by **ArlingtonSkinsFan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:09 am

roybus14 wrote:Buges is tired and I think losing his daughter has sapped the energy out of him. He just look exhausted.

I've wondered why the O-Line is better than what it is because he was the architect of, IMO, a HOF Offensive Line. To see this drop off or lack of improvement in what we have now under his tenure tells me that he's tired and has lost his snap. It's like there is no confidence whatsoever in running to Heyer's side. Maybe it's time for some young talent to step in as O-Line Coach and provide so pop. Why Schlerth hasn't been approached I don't?? I don't know if "Stink" is interested but I think he'd be a great candidate as O-Line Coach here....

Bring in STINK!

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:01 pm

Again, I don't think it is Bugel - it's the players he's been given to work with. A combination of banged up and fragile veterans, and some younger players who have borderline NFL talent at best. Compare that to Jacoby, Grimm, Bostic, May et al. He made some of the them into the players they became, but they started out with the talent, the attitude and the durability. Compare and contrast with what he's had in his second go in Washington.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:13 pm

Whats Russ Grimm doing now? He was O Line coach in PITT under Cowher. Whats his job title now?

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:22 pm

assistant head coach/offensive line coach in Arizona

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:52 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:assistant head coach/offensive line coach in Arizona

Yup... and to talk with him, we'd have to be offering him a promotion.

SkinsHead56 · Post by **SkinsHead56** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:26 am

Countertrey wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:assistant head coach/offensive line coach in Arizona

Yup... and to talk with him, we'd have to be offering him a promotion.

I'm for it. Grimm should be the next HC here. I know there are a bunch of coaches with SB rings ready to come back but I would love for Russ to be here and be HC.