Holgrem AND Zorn?

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:49 am

PFT.com has a article saying that Holgrem has displayed intrest in coaching on the east coast and specifically cited Washington, Philly and NY. My question is if Holgrem becomes coach do you think Zorn would stay on and learn from him?

I like Zorn has a coach and teacher, but he just does not have what it takes to call plays at this level yet. That might come, it might not.

If Holgrem comes on to be the coach and calls plays, what are the chances of Zorn staying on to be the Offensive Coordinator? That way Holgrem continues his mentoring of Zorn at a closer distance and Zorn maybe given a 2nd chance down the road?

This has alot of what ifs but I think it would benefit the team to keep the same offensive strategy and coaching philosophies.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:08 am

You can't do that. You can't demote a guy from HC to Off. Cord. He will not have any respect from the players and loose his credibility.

But who knows. It could work. Holmgren and Zorn are two different type's of personalities. I don't know. I think if we are going to get rid of Zorn, it's got to be clean. That's about it. I don't think he will be without a job long.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:12 am

I understand what ur saying, but I was thinking since they are such good friends it might work. Maybe Holgrem can talk to him and convince him to stay, learn more and give it another chance in 5 yrs?

NJ-SKINS-FAN · Post by **NJ-SKINS-FAN** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:37 am

i sick of seeing zorn on the sideline with redskins gear on

now or if holgren was hired

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:40 am

Which still doesn't solve the issue of GM...

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:00 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:Which still doesn't solve the issue of GM...

It is perhaps more likely that Holmgren would want the job only as GM. Then he would be viewed as helping a protege rather than betraying a friend by taking his job...Although that scenario would require Snyder to lose his best friend in Cerrato.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:16 pm

SnyderSucks wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:Which still doesn't solve the issue of GM...

It is perhaps more likely that Holmgren would want the job only as GM. Then he would be viewed as helping a protege rather than betraying a friend by taking his job...Although that scenario would require Snyder to lose his best friend in Cerrato.

PFT.com has a article saying that Holgrem has displayed intrest in coaching on the east coast and specifically cited Washington

Just going off of what the OP stated.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:22 pm

Well I believe Holgrem was the GM in Seattle so I would imagine he would want that job in DC too. I would imagine whatever coach comes in here now will want that job seeing that the coach is a big name (Shanny, Gruden, Cowher, Holgrem)

RedskinsFreak · Post by **RedskinsFreak** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:53 pm

But Holmgren was relieved of GM duties in Seattle and THEN the Seahawks made the Super Bowl.

But without an overhaul in the positions above Head Coach, it won't matter who they bring in at that position.

Vincent K. Lombardi wouldn't succeed with those two maroons in charge above him.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:02 pm

RedskinsFreak wrote:But Holmgren was relieved of GM duties in Seattle and THEN the Seahawks made the Super Bowl.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU =D>

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:09 pm

RedskinsFreak wrote:But Holmgren was relieved of GM duties in Seattle and THEN the Seahawks made the Super Bowl.

But without an overhaul in the positions above Head Coach, it won't matter who they bring in at that position.

Vincent K. Lombardi wouldn't succeed with those two maroons in charge above him.

Great use of maroon in a sentence. Takes me back to Bugs Bunny. :lol:

I agree with your statements, the hope being that Holmgren would do better at GM if he was GM only because he was overstretched as GM and Head Coach. Anyone who isn't a spineless yes man at the position would be an upgrade over the current arrangment. I continue to wish they had made a run at Pioli or the guy who is running Atlanta when they were both still in New England.

CajunSkin · Post by **CajunSkin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:24 pm

If it would help the organization why not bring in Holmgreen as the OC? Save a little face value maybe? Just throwing it out there. I never was a big fan of Holmgren though so i can't say what i know don't know like or dislike about him..... just speaking on the topic

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:42 pm

RedskinsFreak wrote:But Holmgren was relieved of GM duties in Seattle and THEN the Seahawks made the Super Bowl.

But without an overhaul in the positions above Head Coach, it won't matter who they bring in at that position.

Vincent K. Lombardi wouldn't succeed with those two maroons in charge above him.

hahahah ,.....MAROONS.... how lovely that color is....heheheh

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:43 pm

Ultimately, all discussion of a GM is pointless* until the Danny decides that he needs one.

*senseless, aimless, fruitless, futile, impotent, inane, inconsequential, insignificant, irrelevant, meaningless, nonsensical, useless, vain, not pertinent, going nowhere, going in circles, ineffective, running on a treadmill, unproductive, unprofitable...

Danny!

but, then, I kind of like pointless... at times...

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:58 pm

I'd take Gruden ... at least he's shown a willingness to change QBs

But Holmgren I don't think is the answer, and WHY WOULD YOU want to continue with Zorn as the OC ?? Zorn's offense is arguably the worst thing I've seen in forever.

Come on ... last week we ran 65 (?) plays, and only 14 running plays? Against the Lions? Not only is that imbalanced, it's mentally retarded ... especially when most of the runs are in the red zone on 3rd and 4th downs. You just can't make this kinda stuff up ... it's just loony.

Also, I just wonder how the Redskins know they can't run right .. I'm not sure anyone has seen them try it. Maybe they should at least try it when the defense over shifts 6 on the left side ... maybe?

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:05 pm

His offnse is not the problem. Its the same offense that worked in Seattle arguably. The problem is his playcalling. Thats where Holgrem comes in to be the new playcaller and coach. Zorn sees how it should be and continues to learn under him.

As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:05 pm

His offnse is not the problem. Its the same offense that worked in Seattle arguably. The problem is his playcalling. Thats where Holgrem comes in to be the new playcaller and coach. Zorn sees how it should be and continues to learn under him.

As for the new GM talk, I completely agree that a GM is needed. BUT, any big name coach that comes in is going to want to be HC/GM. I think the only big name coach who was not the GM also was Gruden. I dont see us hiring a real GM unless they go with a coach noone knows and they dont demand to be a GM too.

I would not mind a combo of Gruden/Casserly though. That would be nice. But no chance Charlie Casserly goes near Snyder!

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:39 pm

Countertrey wrote:Ultimately, all discussion of a GM is pointless* until the Danny decides that he needs one.

*senseless, aimless, fruitless, futile, impotent, inane, inconsequential, insignificant, irrelevant, meaningless, nonsensical, useless, vain, not pertinent, going nowhere, going in circles, ineffective, running on a treadmill, unproductive, unprofitable...

Danny!

but, then, I kind of like pointless... at times...

Take your argument to it's next step, and everything on this board is pointless...What, if anything, can the fans do to influence ownership? I still like the idea of a large group either showing up to the game and not going in, or showing up to Redskins park and protesting. Can you imagine the national coverage of 50,000 fans with tickets standing in the parking lot, not going into the game?

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:45 pm

SnyderSucks wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Ultimately, all discussion of a GM is pointless* until the Danny decides that he needs one.

*senseless, aimless, fruitless, futile, impotent, inane, inconsequential, insignificant, irrelevant, meaningless, nonsensical, useless, vain, not pertinent, going nowhere, going in circles, ineffective, running on a treadmill, unproductive, unprofitable...

Danny!

but, then, I kind of like pointless... at times...

Take your argument to it's next step, and everything on this board is pointless...What, if anything, can the fans do to influence ownership? I still like the idea of a large group either showing up to the game and not going in, or showing up to Redskins park and protesting. Can you imagine the national coverage of 50,000 fans with tickets standing in the parking lot, not going into the game?

Yes, please. Just pretend my last sentence wasn't there.

BTW, that whole "boycott" thing? Yeah... non-starter. Too many who will just go anyway.

What can I say? I'm a curmudgeon. "Pointless" is, like, right in my wheelhouse.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:43 pm

SnyderSucks wrote:Take your argument to it's next step, and everything on this board is pointless...What, if anything, can the fans do to influence ownership? I still like the idea of a large group either showing up to the game and not going in, or showing up to Redskins park and protesting. Can you imagine the national coverage of 50,000 fans with tickets standing in the parking lot, not going into the game?

I don't think that's what he meant by pointless, I think arguments like this are what he was referring to.

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:54 pm

Countertrey wrote:

BTW, that whole "boycott" thing? Yeah... non-starter. Too many who will just go anyway.

Probably true. It would be great though. I can dream.

I'm trying to think of examples where a fanbase as a whole turned on the owner. The only one's I can think of are Cleveland and Houston. In Cleveland it was because the owner moved the team. In Houston, the owner moved the team to get away from the disgruntled fans. I don't remember what made them turn on him. I might have changed my mind - I don't want Snyder moving the team to L.A. Snyder's Great!

ArlingtonSkinsFan · Post by **ArlingtonSkinsFan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:23 pm

SnyderSucks wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Ultimately, all discussion of a GM is pointless* until the Danny decides that he needs one.

*senseless, aimless, fruitless, futile, impotent, inane, inconsequential, insignificant, irrelevant, meaningless, nonsensical, useless, vain, not pertinent, going nowhere, going in circles, ineffective, running on a treadmill, unproductive, unprofitable...

Danny!

but, then, I kind of like pointless... at times...

Take your argument to it's next step, and everything on this board is pointless...What, if anything, can the fans do to influence ownership? I still like the idea of a large group either showing up to the game and not going in, or showing up to Redskins park and protesting. Can you imagine the national coverage of 50,000 fans with tickets standing in the parking lot, not going into the game?

I don't think Snyder would be bothered by everyone buying tickets and not going into the stadium...they're still BUYING tickets! All he cares about is revenue, and it wouldn't be affected by this particular strategy. If you want to irk him you have to get season ticket holders to dump their tickets. Unfortunately, who wants to get in the back of a 20 year line??

CajunSkin · Post by **CajunSkin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:37 pm

I enjoy the thought of Shanahan taking over but then again with any of these veteran coaches you've got to ask how long does it last before you have to rebuild AGAIN?

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:37 pm

ArlingtonSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Ultimately, all discussion of a GM is pointless* until the Danny decides that he needs one.

*senseless, aimless, fruitless, futile, impotent, inane, inconsequential, insignificant, irrelevant, meaningless, nonsensical, useless, vain, not pertinent, going nowhere, going in circles, ineffective, running on a treadmill, unproductive, unprofitable...

Danny!

but, then, I kind of like pointless... at times...

Take your argument to it's next step, and everything on this board is pointless...What, if anything, can the fans do to influence ownership? I still like the idea of a large group either showing up to the game and not going in, or showing up to Redskins park and protesting. Can you imagine the national coverage of 50,000 fans with tickets standing in the parking lot, not going into the game?

I don't think Snyder would be bothered by everyone buying tickets and not going into the stadium...they're still BUYING tickets! All he cares about is revenue, and it wouldn't be affected by this particular strategy. If you want to irk him you have to get season ticket holders to dump their tickets. Unfortunately, who wants to get in the back of a 20 year line??

I, and my cousins, have already dumped 8 season tickets this year. The ticket list is no where near 20 years. I signed up when they were still in RFK and got off a few years later when they built the new stadium. With the new stadium the turnover is much greater. Most of the people I know with tickets waited about 5 years, and with the economy now the wait might be down to a couple of years. The list isn't really as big as they claim - there are a lot of people on the list who have been offered tickets and have turned them down. I have a cousin who get's offered tickets every year, turns them down, and they call her again the next year. After I turned in my tickets, I got multiple calls, emails, and regular mail offering to sell me tickets. I fully expect to get offers for tickets next year. Until the team starts winning regularly, getting tickets won't be difficult.

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:49 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:Which still doesn't solve the issue of GM...

Exactly. You could bring back Lombardi to coach and it doesn't matter. It's not the coaching that's the problem folks. We have got to fix the GM or the coaching turnover and mediocre seasons continue. Having a GM/Coach doesn't work either. We need a GM