Advocatus Diaboli: The defensive line (or lack thereof)

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:38 pm

I imagine this topic has been discussed ad infinitum, but it seems to me that despite the rather paltry efforts made to address the d-line, it remains a sinking ship with many holes to be plugged. I am not terribly encouraged by the signings thus far, though I do admit they are an upgrade from last year. That, however, is not saying much. Nor am I convinced that the scrap heap of cast-offs from other teams will yield anyone of note. Even with a much more aggressive scheme on defense and a talented corps of linebackers, as an opposing offensive coordinator, I would focus my plan of attack on running the ball, something that NFC East teams do quite well. And, again, while I certainly welcome a defense that relies on the blitz, I question how effective that philosophy can be when the defensive line is unable to generate a consistent pass rush. (I also have some serious concerns about Springs in one-on-one coverage, but that is another topic entirely.)
This may be a question of having my cake and eating it too, i.e. the Skins can not possibly hope to address all of last year's flaws in one fell swoop. I am also cognizant of the fact that a concerted effort was made to address this problem in the initial stages of free agency.
Nonetheless, the problem remains and I fear that it looms rather large.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:45 pm

Word.

Joe G. · Post by **Joe G.** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:09 am

That defense was so poorly coached last year that just having a good deensive coordinator will up grade it. Remember we got Noble back, griffin is going to be good, and we have some run stoppers our problem is pass rush. Springs will be fine, he just needs to get healthy again and you will forget about Chump Baily.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:02 am

gibbs said we can't fix everything in one year. i tend to agree.

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:18 am

Actually our D-Line isn't quite as bad as you are making it seem. With our talent on the d-line we are average, not horrible. But it certainly isn't a strength. As I said in another post I am looking forward to Griffin having a monster year. He was a beast his rookie year with the Giants, but he became lax working under Fassell who is definetly a "players coach," but he is a players coach in the worst kind of way. I think that under Gibbs and Williams our Defense will be solid. Remember Williams didn't have much of a D-line to work with in Buffalo either. And this is coach Blache's specialty. These guys will turn mediocre talent into a well performin unit.

I don't think that we will be getting tons of sacks out of our line, but we also won't be getting run over by second string RB's. We will be able to stop the run with our line, which is really all that I ask of them this year.

Chad

#1SKINFAN · Post by **#1SKINFAN** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:15 am

WHAT HAPPENED TO HOLSEY, ANYONE KNOW

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:16 am

I don't think the NFC East is as much of a run first division as one might think. Just look at the RBs in our division. Giants: Barber (Mr. Fumble) and who else?, Cowboys: cut Hambrecht and drafted Jones, Eagles: no monster runner. Today we have a coaching staff that is extremely smart. We now have the best back in the NFC East. We also have a defense where the philosophy will be to have the DL contain the OL and let the LBs and DBs make big plays. Since the NFC East doesn't have any real Pro Bowl RBs (except Portis) the Skins have a strategy that makes sense. Do we need more help on the DL? Absolutely. But Rome wasn't built in 1 day and it will take another year before Gibbs and Co. can further upgrade the DL. We have the best LBs and DBs in our division. Our coaches will get the most out of our DL. Remember, the team to beat is the Eagles, and they have a West Coast offense. The Skins' defense is built to defeat that type of offense.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:35 am

GoSkins wrote:I don't think the NFC East is as much of a run first division as one might think.

The addition of Clinton Portis and a hungry O-line eager to show that they can run block (as opposed to last year's showing) for a scheme that works points to at least ONE team being a run-first team...yup, the Skins.The Eagles have been the benchmark of the NFC East for a while now, but that's about to change.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:45 am

Holsey is still around - I'm pretty sure. As for the D-line, could be better BUT - Noble, Griffin and Salave'a - all upgrades from last year. Noble is very tough and will be 100%. Griffin offers good quickness and experience. Salave'a is under-rated and the lesser known guy, but he's a strong worker and played very well for the Titans. He's a good run stop guy.

Would I like to see more effort to get a DT - sure. But I feel 1000% better about the Dline than last year's bunch.
Chase, Dalton... and I can't even remember who else...

Plus, Daniels on the outside will help the run D and he's an upgrade of Smith. I hope they move Wynn inside and mix him into the rotation at DT, slide LaVar up to DE from time to time and stunt like mad!

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:46 am

Yeah, we've already learned that having a great team "on paper" doesn't get us very far. I think we all agree the D-line could use more talent, but, I believe that the coaches will make this the best defense we've had in a decade. Also, I think besides Griffin (who should be good) there will be one guy on the d-line who will step up. Maybe Noble, Wynn or Haley or someone else altogether. Instead of grabbing any free agent who ever had a good season, I think Gibbs will look for character over talent. Most of the players to be had right now are cast-offs for a good reason. Except for maybe Joe Johnson, who is known as a hard-working team guy with some injury history, I am not interested in the rest of the baggage out there unless Gibbs sees something he likes. In Gibbs I trust!

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:12 am

chaddukes wrote:I don't think that we will be getting tons of sacks out of our line, but we also won't be getting run over by second string RB's. We will be able to stop the run with our line, which is really all that I ask of them this year.

Chad

"Run over by second string RB's". . .our division rival's (second string quality RB's). . .at home. . .

You've gotta believe that we'll be able to do better than that. I expect for my dad to tape all of the games and keep more than 4 of them for me to watch when I get home from school. . .

genuswine hoglover · Post by **genuswine hoglover** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:20 am

[quote="Scooter"] Noble is very tough and will be 100%. /quote]

Are you sure this is true. I am hoping you are correct but I haven't really heard that. I thought it was really still up in the air whether he would ever be able to play. Does anyone know whether he participated in contact drills during either of the minicamps?

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:22 am

There is no way Noble is going to be 100 percent. He's lucky to still be playing. Look at the players that have managed to come back from a knee injury as massive as Noble's. Robert Edwards, Greg Lloyd. And these guys are the success stories! Noble will be a role player at best. Remember, he was a mediocre lineman to begin with...

ChillWill · Post by **ChillWill** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:30 pm

SSIII,

Thank you for noting that Brandon Noble is mediocre at best. Does anyone remeber him being a standout in Dallas. Granted his does a lot of the dirty work drawing double teams but it sure seems to me that he performed under the radar. Just seems like a lot of folks are expecting a lot more from him than is reasonable.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:35 pm

Some great ideas thrown around in this post. I like the idea that Portis and the O-line will control every game so much that any weakness on D will hardly be noticed.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:39 pm

That defense was so poorly coached last year that just having a good deensive coordinator will up grade it.

Exactly. The line has been upgraded personel wise. It will receive an update coaching wise. The coaching aspect will show the most advancement. I truely believe that. We had a defensive coach of whom i loathe moreso than Spurrier, he was an idiot.....AHHHH :explode:

Im going to the smack forum.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:45 pm

riggofan wrote:Some great ideas thrown around in this post. I like the idea that Portis and the O-line will control every game so much that any weakness on D will hardly be noticed.

Well, you know...that's kinda hard to do. Your offense can't really hide a defensive weakness, even if they are prolific.
Every game would be, like, whoever has the ball last wins.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:57 pm

tcwest10 wrote:Every game would be, like, whoever has the ball last wins.

AKA Colts vs. Chiefs.

There is definetly something to the idea that a dominant running offense can help a weaker run defense, but it can only help mask the problem, not solve it...

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:32 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:[
There is definetly something to the idea that a dominant running offense can help a weaker run defense

Please, explain. You have my full attention.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:42 pm

Well, the idea that a dominant running offense can control both ball and the clock, thus allowing the defense (ecspecially the defensive line) to be well rested every time it comes onto the field. Even if our defense hasn't improved one bit from last season, it should be more effective simply because they won't be subjected to being on the field for forty mintues game like they were under Spurrier...

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:42 pm

tcwest10 wrote:Every game would be, like, whoever has the ball last wins.

C'mon! Our defense isn't that bad!

Chad

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:51 pm

I'd agree, but Portis isn't exactly your "two yards here, four yards there" type of guy. He's explosive, and is likely to turn any old handoff into a fifteen yard gain, right ? That means, we score early and often. Now, on the other side of the ball (if we aren't stout) the other team scores, too. Our offense isn't looking like the dink-and-dunk. It's looking like we have fast-strike capability like when we had the Posse in full bloom. If the center of the defense can't hold (as many here allege) your offense comes right back out, and the tiring can be on that side of the ball on your own team. It seems that a balanced team does best, even if it's only fair/fair on both sides of the ball.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:37 am

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Well, the idea that a dominant running offense can control both ball and the clock, thus allowing the defense (ecspecially the defensive line) to be well rested every time it comes onto the field. Even if our defense hasn't improved one bit from last season, it should be more effective simply because they won't be subjected to being on the field for forty mintues game like they were under Spurrier...

Yes, this holds true in Madden, as well. Especially if you're playing with the Cardinals. My 2 cents

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:05 am

tcwest10 wrote:If the center of the defense can't hold (as many here allege) your offense comes right back out, and the tiring can be on that side of the ball on your own team. It seems that a balanced team does best, even if it's only fair/fair on both sides of the ball.

Do you really think that our defense is going to be that bad?

Our coaches know that you need balance. This defense isn't the Charger's defense. You make it sound like we won't be able to stop the other team...ever. That's not going to happen.

Chad

mhixon · Post by **mhixon** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:16 am

The line will be better this year. Number one we have made some personel upgrades. Number two we have upgraded our coaching. Number three we have improved our offense. Number four we have improved our linebacker core. So we dont have any great pass rushers but I think when you look at these points you have strong reasons to believe we will be greatly improved over last year.