Post Game Discussion - Skins/Lions

[RayNAustin]

Zorn does seem clueless, but I'm not sure what firing him would do at this point. I think that would be counter productive ... but then again ... I'm not sure you can do much worse than what transpired today.

Maybe SEVERAL heads should roll ... and several full timers need an extended time out on the bench.

[aswas71788]

The only upside of a loss like this is the upside of the hair pulling and crying of the losers who are always running us down anyway. They're such morons it's just so funny and if anything I'm glad they lost even if I'm not glad we did. They are people who deserve to follow the Lions. I guess DC is just too transient a city who are going to pick up the fair weather fans.

Rant on, babies. You're redeeming the day a little.

Fair weather fans? I don't think there are any fair weather fans on this site. 3 games? How about 16 games last year? 8 - 8, remember? same problems last year, not offense.

Fair weather fan? I have probably been a fan longer than you have been alive and will continue to be one. I do not give up my right to criticize when it is so justly deserved.

[aswas71788]

If you fire Zorn, who takes his place?

There are several ex-head coaches that are currently unemployed. Holgrem (sp?), Shanahan, Gruden, Cowher (Good god I would become sick if he came in).

Anyone one of them would be an improvement.

This is a pointless discussion, we played 3 games. Firing Zorn would be suicide for us as an organization. We'd be tossing a season and ensuring no reputable coach would come here

Wrong! Head coaches are a breed of people that thrives on challenges. What challenge could be greater than then Redskin right now?

Detroit. We have a lot of talent, I'd think if we do this right we could have a good selection of coaches who would love to come here recognizing how quickly they could accomplish it with the team we have and Snyder's going to go get anyone available they want.

Kazoo, I don't think the Redskins are short on talent. I think the leadership is short on leadership and talent. one can choose any one of the leadership figures you want... Zorn, Campbell, Snyder, Cerrato, or any combination thereof, it doesn't really matter.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Ok Kazoo, you tell me why they didn't go back to one of those guys after Spagnoulo turned the job down?

First, your bias Spags "turned the job down." You don't know that, you're assuming it. Clearly Danny wasn't sold, he kept interviewing and not hiring him. Clearly Spags didn't want to hang around a job he wasn't being offered when after all those interviews Danny should have known if he wanted him and still didn't.

For the other guys, they liked Zorn better. Frankly Zorn wasn't a bad choice. When you take shots, sometimes it doesn't work out. I've been on the fence with Zorn up to now, but the last couple games are hard to defend that he's on the right track. We just struggled badly against two bad teams and there are so many odd decisions. I was OK with going for the TD on their 1, it was our D that let us down. But even if we'd gotten a stop on taking the holding call I'd have disagreed with that one. Though Zorn would look better if JC did. But your just assuming we didn't really want Zorn and I see no basis for that even though he didn't work out.

All the other head coaching vacancies were taken, The Ravens got Harbaugh, the Dolphins got Sporano and Atlanta went with Mike Smith. What the tells me is that there was nothing preventing the Front Office from going back after one of the previous candidates

And we had the guy who clearly hit it off with Snyder, why shouldn't he have gotten the job? The upside of going with emerging coaching talent is you may get a Gibbs, the downside is you may not. This proves nothing.

What head coach wants to walk into a job where the coordinators have already been hired? That's why nobody would come here, because they would be handcuffed to people they didn't have a say in hiring

First, they were looking at defensive coaches and Zorn was highly regarded. Also, this is a pointless argument, if we wanted another coach who wanted any of the staff gone they would be and Snyder would have eaten the cost. There is no cap for coaches, having a staff in place was a plus not a minus. Worst case is the new coach would have had to live with them for a year, but that would only be if it was too late to get the people they wanted anyway. There is no reason to believe any coach would have been stuck with any of them thought.

I want you to tell me why that's so hard to believe, because you seem to think people were chomping at the bit to take this job.

Those are my choices? We're pariahs no one wants to be associated with or EVERYONE wants THIS job? Why are those my choices?

[DEHog]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG. We needed to point points on the board and not give the Lions any momentum. The other thing about that call made it clear to me that Zorn listens to all his critics this week…and he shouldn’t have…what suddenly made Zorn think he could get into the end zone when he couldn’t on 5 occasions last week. I’ve seen were some have said if we’d kick the FG we would have only needed a FG at the end...wrong if we had kicked the FG the Lions wouldn’t have gone for two and would have had 21.

As for the fallout…I see a silver lining…The voice in Snyder’s head has to be getting louder and louder…you can’t run the football side of things…you can’t keep Vinny here you must hiring a GM and give him control, it the only way you will attract a “real” HC.

Vinny must go before anyone else….period!!!!

[KazooSkinsFan]

Kazoo, I don't think the Redskins are short on talent. I think the leadership is short on leadership and talent. one can choose any one of the leadership figures you want... Zorn, Campbell, Snyder, Cerrato, or any combination thereof, it doesn't really matter.

I agree, when a team with talent is losing, you look at leadership

[grampi]

Well, that was the worst loss I can remember seeing in. . .


. . . . .hmm. We've had tougher losses, maybe, but I can't recall anything as "low" as this one. Can't imagine this bodes well for Zorn's job security.

I'd say he and JC are well on the way to the door. But not now, at the end of the year. He's seriously going to need to turn this around in a big way to change that. We're 3 for 3 with severely disappointing games now. But putting the team in disarray by quitting now and souring the ground for any reputable coach isn't the solution. If Snyder fires Zorn now, I'll put RiC's sig in mine as that would actually prove Snyder is an incompetent owner.

Do you need further proof that Snyder is an incompetent owner? I don't need any more.

[SnyderSucks]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG. We needed to point points on the board and not give the Lions any momentum. The other thing about that call made it clear to me that Zorn listens to all his critics this week…and he shouldn’t have…what suddenly made Zorn think he could get into the end zone when he couldn’t on 5 occasions last week. I’ve seen were some have said if we’d kick the FG we would have only needed a FG at the end...wrong if we had kicked the FG the Lions wouldn’t have gone for two and would have had 21.

As for the fallout…I see a silver lining…The voice in Snyder’s head has to be getting louder and louder…you can’t run the football side of things…you can’t keep Vinny here you must hiring a GM and give him control, it the only way you will attract a “real” HC.

Vinny must go before anyone else….period!!!!

I agree with getting rid of Vinny, but unfortunately, the voice in Snyder's head is Vinny's voice. Is there any doubt that Vinny played a big role in getting rid of Schottenheimer? Vinny is there whispering in his ear all day and night.

[KazooSkinsFan]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG

It's a valid view. In the end since they best us up on both sides of the ball it wouldn't have mattered. The Lions outplayed us.

Man, I hate saying that.

[Britskin]

This was a shocking loss to the poorest team in recent football - was it 0 yards rushing in the first half, less than 100 yds offense in the first half, against.... DETROIT!! Now every dog has his day but why my friends do they always seem to have them against us? Last year the Rams - same old, same old.
This one ( and probably the Rams game last year ) is on Zorn and his team of coaches. Its his team ! When a team fails to show up ready to play football against a poor opposition its because the Coach hasnt got them there - he hasnt prepared them, motivated them, energised them, whatever. Its on the Coach for sure. We can blame the O line, the D. JC and possibly every part of our football team... but its Zorn's job to get them to play and of course, to make good calls at the right time.
I know there are other factors involved and i'm desperate for coaching continuity but this result got Zorn fired - whether its this week or season's end, he's gone!

[Snout]

The Skins aren't establishing the run or even coming close. They had the ball 23 minutes and Portis only got 12 carries. JC had a nice game, statistically, but on the road, controlling the time of possession is way underrated. Gotta establish the run and wear down teams like the Lions on the road.

Very true, and this is the biggest weakness in my opinion. Except for the first run in the Giants game, Portis hasn't done anything this season. People will say that is because of the OL, which may be true, but isn't a superstar RB supposed to break a few plays even with a sub-par OL?

I regret that the team doesn't have more depth, and I lament the day that Joe Gibbs traded up for Jason Campbell. I hope this team never wastes another first round draft pick on an unproven QB.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Well, that was the worst loss I can remember seeing in. . .


. . . . .hmm. We've had tougher losses, maybe, but I can't recall anything as "low" as this one. Can't imagine this bodes well for Zorn's job security.

I'd say he and JC are well on the way to the door. But not now, at the end of the year. He's seriously going to need to turn this around in a big way to change that. We're 3 for 3 with severely disappointing games now. But putting the team in disarray by quitting now and souring the ground for any reputable coach isn't the solution. If Snyder fires Zorn now, I'll put RiC's sig in mine as that would actually prove Snyder is an incompetent owner.

Do you need further proof that Snyder is an incompetent owner? I don't need any more.

Critical thinking doesn't just mean criticizing. If you flip a coin and every time say tails, it doesn't prove anything when you're right and you're not going to learn anything by asking them "how they knew" it would be tails. They just crow for the tails and downplay all the times heads came up.

We have a lot of talent, we're not doing everything wrong. We're not doing everything right either, but that doesn't equate to "incompetent."

[gushogs]

I watched the NY game and it looked bad from the begining, after watching the Rams game, I knew we were in deep doodle, after today, I´m sad to say we are no longer a mediocre team (7-9 avg the last 15 yrs). we are officially in bottom end of the league.

Remember this is the soft part of the schedule, If something doesn´t change in the next couple of weeks, we may need to forfit the second half of the season....

[KazooSkinsFan]

This was a shocking loss to the poorest team in recent football - was it 0 yards rushing in the first half, less than 100 yds offense in the first half, against.... DETROIT!! Now every dog has his day but why my friends do they always seem to have them against us? Last year the Rams - same old, same old

I'm not saying this in defense of the Skins today, but I disagree the Lions are the worst team in the NFL right now. They look a lot improved over last year. We should have beaten them, I'm just disagreeing with that narrow point. Ignoring us, the Chiefs and Browns for example look to me to be worse then the Lions and there are probably other candidates as well.

[DEHog]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG

It's a valid view. In the end since they best us up on both sides of the ball it wouldn't have mattered. The Lions outplayed us.

Man, I hate saying that.

Agrred but my point was that IMO Zorn made that call based on all the bad press the team got this week and not as a HC...that early in the game as a HC you take the points.

[PAPDOG67]

I regret that the team doesn't have more depth, and I lament the day that Joe Gibbs traded up for Jason Campbell. I hope this team never wastes another first round draft pick on an unproven QB.

How do you expect to ever get a franchise QB in here if you don't keep trying to snag one high in the draft??? Franchise QBs don't just fall out of the sky via free agency (aside from Drew Brees). You have to keep trying to obtain one in the draft until you find one that fits.

[KazooSkinsFan]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG

It's a valid view. In the end since they best us up on both sides of the ball it wouldn't have mattered. The Lions outplayed us.

Man, I hate saying that.

Agrred but my point was that IMO Zorn made that call based on all the bad press the team got this week and not as a HC...that early in the game as a HC you take the points.

But as a counter argument and not actual disagreement, the team was on the 1 and were so raked over the coals for being inside the 10 last week so many times and coming away with FGs. Scoring could have been a pick me up and even converting a FG a downer for the team. Though after the bizarre decision to take the holding call I am not sure he wasn't just nuts. But I'm saying it could have made sense for that reason.

[DEHog]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG

It's a valid view. In the end since they best us up on both sides of the ball it wouldn't have mattered. The Lions outplayed us.

Man, I hate saying that.

Agrred but my point was that IMO Zorn made that call based on all the bad press the team got this week and not as a HC...that early in the game as a HC you take the points.

But as a counter argument and not actual disagreement, the team was on the 1 and were so raked over the coals for being inside the 10 last week so many times and coming away with FGs. Scoring could have been a pick me up and even converting a FG a downer for the team. Though after the bizarre decision to take the holding call I am not sure he wasn't just nuts. But I'm saying it could have made sense for that reason.

That's my point you don't make calls in a NFL game based on that when you do..you're done!

[KazooSkinsFan]

That's my point you don't make calls in a NFL game based on that when you do..you're done!

It was a desperation call, but we were desperate. We scored nine points against the Rams. Our O needs to get in the end zone and he had a shot to do it. We really needed a TD at that point, not a FG. And we gave them the ball on the 1 with a rookie QB. When they drive 99 yards on you in that situation you're in trouble, our D needed to stop them. But we give them a free 5 yards for a cushion, they get the first down and breathing room. That wasn't a failing of the O.

[jizzleman]

zorn has got to go let blatche finish out the year and we can hire cowher or shanahan next year

[ArlingtonSkinsFan]

We could still go 14-2. Just saying......

[Redskin in Canada]

Well, that was the worst loss I can remember seeing in. . .


. . . . .hmm. We've had tougher losses, maybe, but I can't recall anything as "low" as this one. Can't imagine this bodes well for Zorn's job security.

I'd say he and JC are well on the way to the door. But not now, at the end of the year. He's seriously going to need to turn this around in a big way to change that. We're 3 for 3 with severely disappointing games now. But putting the team in disarray by quitting now and souring the ground for any reputable coach isn't the solution. If Snyder fires Zorn now, I'll put RiC'ss sig in mine as that would actually prove Snyder is an incompetent owner.

This post has not gone unnoticed Kaz. You are right. It would be madness to fire Zorn throughout the regular season. Snyder himself had been quoted to say that firing Norv throughout the season was a awful decision.

BUT ...

I basically agree with you, Kaz. But I'm not sure Snyder does.

It comes down dollars and cents. If Dan Snyder feels that there is a way to stop the loss of income by firing the HC RIGHT NOW, he will. That is why he is a terrible owner. He is about to make a decision in the worst of circumstances.. Thou shall see

And Kaz, I look forward to see your signature before the end of the season.

As for the fallout…I see a silver lining…The voice in Snyder’s head has to be getting louder and louder…you can’t run the football side of things…you can’t keep Vinny here you must hiring a GM and give him control, it the only way you will attract a “real” HC.

Vinny must go before anyone else….period!!!!

ANY sensible reorganization starts RIGHT there.

BUT ... are you sure these are going to hold THEMSEVES for this failure and incompetence instead of putting out there a sacrificial lamb (JZ) or two (JZ and JC) ???

I am not.


The scrutiny, ridicule and scorn by the media and the fans will be UNBEARABLE this week.

Jim Zorn may have lost the players after this game. This loss has a feeling of the last season of Spurrier with us. BAD NEWS.

[DEHog]

That's my point you don't make calls in a NFL game based on that when you do..you're done!

It was a desperation call, but we were desperate. We scored nine points against the Rams. Our O needs to get in the end zone and he had a shot to do it. We really needed a TD at that point, not a FG. And we gave them the ball on the 1 with a rookie QB. When they drive 99 yards on you in that situation you're in trouble, our D needed to stop them. But we give them a free 5 yards for a cushion, they get the first down and breathing room. That wasn't a failing of the O.

That's the mindset Zorn had and he shouldn't have we did not "need" a TD at the point we "wanted" a TD. The right call was to get 3 and get out.
SO you only had 3 FG last week that was last week. 3 FG > 1 TD.

[El Mexican]

I received a lot of flak for predicting the Lions would beat us this week.

I'm a fan, as all of you guys, I hate to watch my team loose.

But I also can see when things are about to unravel. This is one of those moments. The pressure is to much for Zorn and JC to absorb.

We are not a good team and today it showed. Maybe we have some good players here and there, but a good team we are not.

You need someone with ultrahuman strength, like Gibbs had, to lift a group like this from mediocre to acceptable. Zorn has not been able to do it.

Season is over.

[JansenFan]

That's my point you don't make calls in a NFL game based on that when you do..you're done!

It was a desperation call, but we were desperate. We scored nine points against the Rams. Our O needs to get in the end zone and he had a shot to do it. We really needed a TD at that point, not a FG. And we gave them the ball on the 1 with a rookie QB. When they drive 99 yards on you in that situation you're in trouble, our D needed to stop them. But we give them a free 5 yards for a cushion, they get the first down and breathing room. That wasn't a failing of the O.

That's the mindset Zorn had and he shouldn't have we did not "need" a TD at the point we "wanted" a TD. The right call was to get 3 and get out.
SO you only had 3 FG last week that was last week. 3 FG > 1 TD.

If you are going to go for it, run it up the gut. North and South, not East and West. Hated that play call. I actually wanted them to line up in Jumbo, play action, roll right and have ey chip block then roll out into the flat so JC could either run or throw depending on the defense. They sold out on the run and JC could have walked in.