Plenty of fans and analysts have questioned the 3rd-and-5 play call midway through the third quarter, when Jim Zorn dialed up a halfback option to Clinton Portis, whose pass fell incomplete in the end zone. The Redskins then settled for their third field goal. Legendary Redskins quarterback and radio analyst Sonny Jurgensen was among those who questioned the call, but he did so while talking with Zorn during the postgame show.
"Third down, I'm the quarterback, and you call the halfback throwing the ball for me, I'm calling timeout or calling an audible," Jurgensen said. "I'm not letting the halfback throw it. That's what you pay me for."
"Well then, I would have to take you out of the game," Zorn countered. "As soon as you called timeout, I'd say what's wrong with my play, because...."
"It didn't work!" Jurgensen interrupted.
There was a long pause.
"No, but I called it to work. Alright?" Zorn said. "We called it to work. It didn't work. There were a lot of plays out there that didn't work. And I'd take you out of the game. Sorry, Sonny."
Zorn was also asked about that play during his Monday press conference.
"It was a play we had in our gameplan, it wasn't a grab bag," Zorn said. "And we thought if we showed run, because we had been running edge runs with Clinton on the goal line. And I thought, 'All right, here it is.' And Clinton has thrown touchdown passes before. Well what happened was, when we came off the line of scrimmage, we came off backing up, and when the team saw that, they just played it right down the line. The safety felt that this was gonna be a pass....And so we had to kick a field goal."
Zorn was then asked if he was still happy with his play-calling in the red zone; "Yeah, I am," he said. "I mean, if I could see it now, if I could see every play that was gonna fail before it failed, I'm with you. I wouldn't call it. But I felt very confident, because we work on it. We have to execute it, and I use that word sometimes, but we work on it. It's not a grab bag situation. Now I'm gonna go back and study it more, and I'm gonna be hard on myself as well, which is what I do. And we'll see what happened."
I wonder if Sonny was booing Zorn on the inside. Obviously he was upset with the play call and believed that the ball should have been put in JC's hands. If Zorn doesn't trust Campbell then he needs to put someone in there that does or let Jason have the leeway to sink or swim.
>>"And we thought if we showed run, because we had been running edge runs with Clinton on the goal line. And I thought, 'All right, here it is.'"<<
I'm not even sure I can follow that explanation, since it doesn't appear to be in English. But as far as I can tell, he's saying he expected the Rams to play the run just because the Redskins were in a run formation. Never mind that it was an obvious passing down and the Rams had their nickel package in the game -- the Rams were still supposed to be shocked that we actually passed.
The depressing thing is, there's a certain tortured logic to Zorn's thinking. After all, we were stupid enough to run the ball on first and second down. Why would anyone expect us to do the sensible thing on third down?
The depressing thing is, there's a certain tortured logic to Zorn's thinking. After all, we were stupid enough to run the ball on first and second down. Why would anyone expect us to do the sensible thing on third down?
That post would be Hilarious, if it wasnt so terrifying
If Zorn is ever to succeed he can't pander to everyone who wants him to say he was wrong in hindsight. Player's don't respect a guy who doesn't have confidence in his own judgement. I'd rather Zorn stand his ground and be the Redskins Head Coach than to panic with everyone who thinks we're doomed. Sonny makes every loss feel like the sky is falling even when Joe Gibbs came back-remember when he did this to Joe? when he did this to Joe it made me sick. This town has such unrealistic expectations it's a miracle Zorn went 8-8 here at all, much less his first season with less than a full offseason to organize a competitive team in the NFC East. Here's to announcing a future opening for Head Coach of the Redskins, and I'm here to inform any potential candidates that nearly everyone in this town is going to hate you while you attempt to build a winning team.
Screw you pessimists, I'm in full support of Jim Zorn and a successful second season.
No one is a more passionate advocate of trickery and aggressive play-calling than I. My point isn't that the option-pass call wasn't aggressive. It's that it made no sense in that particular situation.
An aggressive call is when you pass in a running situation or vice versa. A stupid call is when you pass in a passing situation but only put one receiver in the pattern and let your running back throw the ball rather than someone who actually knows how — which is precisely the point Sonny was trying to make with Zorn.
Had Zorn made that call on first down, when the Rams might actually have expected a run and, thus, honored the fake, I'd have no problem with it. But on third down and five, why on earth would they sell out on the run just because the Redskins wanted them to?
I'm all for the element of surprise. I just think it's better to surprise them with your brilliance than with your stupidity.
the only td we have scored are in the last second of a loss and a fake field goal...
so by this, we have scored on a trick play and meaningless game time...
if that worked, IF that worked it would be the 2nd time we had to FAKE our way into the endzone....
how about manning up and open it up. throw the ball INTO the ENDZONE with the QB not the rb...
sorry, game plan or not, terrible terrible terrible call...and if it worked i would still say it, cause of the fact we had to "fake" our way into the endzone....
2-2|0-4|1-2|0-0
home: 3-2
road: 0-6
Since 2000 the Redskins have scored 40 pts 2 times!!!!
12/30/01 @ NO 40-10 W
10/23/05 vs SF 52-17 W
Two 40pt games in a decade?? serious?? cant make up that sad fact!!
BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:If Zorn is ever to succeed he can't pander to everyone who wants him to say he was wrong in hindsight. Player's don't respect a guy who doesn't have confidence in his own judgement. I'd rather Zorn stand his ground and be the Redskins Head Coach than to panic with everyone who thinks we're doomed. Sonny makes every loss feel like the sky is falling even when Joe Gibbs came back-remember when he did this to Joe? when he did this to Joe it made me sick. This town has such unrealistic expectations it's a miracle Zorn went 8-8 here at all, much less his first season with less than a full offseason to organize a competitive team in the NFC East. Here's to announcing a future opening for Head Coach of the Redskins, and I'm here to inform any potential candidates that nearly everyone in this town is going to hate you while you attempt to build a winning team.
Screw you pessimists, I'm in full support of Jim Zorn and a successful second season.
HAIL.....here here.. I'm with you brother. I've always liked Zorny in a corny kinda way. Give him a chance, as I said above. He is likely to make you all believe in HIM....soon and very soon...!!!
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:If Zorn is ever to succeed he can't pander to everyone who wants him to say he was wrong in hindsight. Player's don't respect a guy who doesn't have confidence in his own judgement. I'd rather Zorn stand his ground and be the Redskins Head Coach than to panic with everyone who thinks we're doomed. Sonny makes every loss feel like the sky is falling even when Joe Gibbs came back-remember when he did this to Joe? when he did this to Joe it made me sick. This town has such unrealistic expectations it's a miracle Zorn went 8-8 here at all, much less his first season with less than a full offseason to organize a competitive team in the NFC East. Here's to announcing a future opening for Head Coach of the Redskins, and I'm here to inform any potential candidates that nearly everyone in this town is going to hate you while you attempt to build a winning team.
Screw you pessimists, I'm in full support of Jim Zorn and a successful second season.
HAIL.....here here.. I'm with you brother. I've always liked Zorny in a corny kinda way. Give him a chance, as I said above. He is likely to make you all believe in HIM....soon and very soon...!!!
We are stuck with Zorn for the remainder of the season.
We are stuck with Jason for the remainder of the season.
You say this is a good thing. We will take your word for it as an expectation. The proof on the field and the statements made by other posters support the opposite thus far.
I like both Jim and Jason as persons. They are quality people. So far, (and I include one full season plus these two games) the facts do not support a hypothetical turn around.
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
I agree RiC - I was hopeful that both could show some progress this year but it sure doesn't look like it so far - I would be surprised if anything happened this year but it sure does not look good for either one of them being back here next year
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
I see Sonny and JZ's points on that play. If we were scoring offensive TDs and we call a trick play for halfback option, that's one thing, but we're not. We scored exactly ONE TD against a prevent D and we were down two scores. That's not confidence in your QB.
On the skins in general:
I agree it's a bit premature, but I don't see progression in the Red Zone. JC can move the ball. He's starting to gain my confidence again.
You can't fault JC for a stupid TE screen.
You can't fault JC on a halfback option on a non-surprise trick play.
You can't fault JC for Sellers dropping a ball that hit him on the hands any more than you can fault a DT not catching a bullet pass that hit HIM in the hands on a fire zone D coverage.
This is not a JC problem This is a JZ problem. If things stay status quo for the season, we'll be year one in a new offensive scheme once again...with or without JC at the helm.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
It's been along time since I've posted. But I have to comment. Why do we need to resort to trick plays. That is not football!!!!!Trick plays once a year fine. But it's like thats the only way Zorn feels like we can score. Sadly enough he may be correct.
This is partly why Zorn has problems with the red zone. He over-thinks things. You have 3 plays to punch it in. Your call high percentage plays, maybe with a wrinkle here or there, and leave it to the players to execute. Pound it between the tackles, play-fake bootleg where Campbell has the option to run/pass. Short pass where big bodies like ey, Davis and Kelly are the first reads. But you don't ask Portis to roll out and pass it. Maybe on the 20, but not inside the 10 where the end zone is packed with defenders. Just a dumb play call. and that's no hind sight talking. I'll stand by that logic for every game, past and future.
Jeff Rhodes wrote:>>"And we thought if we showed run, because we had been running edge runs with Clinton on the goal line. And I thought, 'All right, here it is.'"<<
I'm not even sure I can follow that explanation, since it doesn't appear to be in English. But as far as I can tell, he's saying he expected the Rams to play the run just because the Redskins were in a run formation. Never mind that it was an obvious passing down and the Rams had their nickel package in the game -- the Rams were still supposed to be shocked that we actually passed.
The depressing thing is, there's a certain tortured logic to Zorn's thinking. After all, we were stupid enough to run the ball on first and second down. Why would anyone expect us to do the sensible thing on third down?
Cannot let the inmates run the jail house ... Zorn is right on this one... he is on a short leash though .. Couple TD's & wins will cure this... THROW THE BALL TO MALCOLM KELLY ....
"The harder I work the luckier I get"....
- Jack Kent Cook 1983
ey, Davis and Kelly are the first reads. But you don't ask Portis to roll out and pass it. Maybe on the 20, but not inside the 10 where the end zone is packed with defenders. Just a dumb play call. and that's no hind sight talking. I'll stand by that logic for every game, past and future.
