Dallas and other's in the NFC East

[SkinsFreak]

I only ask one favour from the posters here. I did not start this thread and the contents have been perhaps more constructive and informative than previous discussions. I thank you for that. But please note that, as I have predicted in the past, there is an increasing number of frustrated and disappointed fans who are losing or have lost any hope about the good performance of the current Front Office. While some of you may still disagree with us about their performance, I ask you very kindly to understand that these are long term loyal fans who love the team no less than any of you. Our pain is greater because we lost hope with Snyder and Cerrato. Every new season has become a chronicle of a well announced mediocre result and the sad thing is that we all see it coming.

And?

What's your point? What are you looking to accomplish by the regurgitation ad nauseam? So what? Are you looking for some kind of pity? Are you trying to start a picket line? I just don't get what your point is.

You don't like Dan and Vinny... we get it. But the vast majority of your argument applies to the management from years ago. You say more people and becoming more frustrated and disappointed. I disagree. There may be a few, but when I go out and talk to people, even those whom aren't Skins fans, most are able to easily recognize that the management has improved their decision making. Most recognize the difference in management pre-Gibbs verses post-Gibbs.

Last year there were no free agents signed and all ten draft choices made the team. This year they only signed two players. Both young, different from past signings, and one is a former Skin. This lends evidence contrary to your assertion that the team feels they're one or two players away from a championship.

Nobody is claiming that Danny and Vinny are perfect and haven't made mistakes in the past. Even they admit that. But most are at least able to recognize and acknowledge the noticeable change in philosophy and improvement in personnel acquisitions. You keep saying we should have addressed certain positions years ago and we need more depth. How long do you think the shelf life of a NFL player is and how could any team have top tier depth at every position? Fact is, we do have good depth at many positions, including DE, DT, FS, SS, TE and RB. And while they're young and unproven due to youth, one could argue we have decent depth at WR, QB and OG. In fact, the only area I see a lack of depth is at OT, but I believe that's coming.

But whatever. We're not going to change your mind and you're not going to change ours. See what you want to see. That's fine. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just trying to understand. But again, I'm not sure what your point is or what you're trying to accomplish by repeating the same thing ad nauseam. You're frustrated... we know. Are you trying to frustrate more people? Are you hoping more people join your so-called "side". If so, and some do... what next? What's your point? What are you going to do?

[KazooSkinsFan]

I do not want ta make this thread go on a path of miscommunication or personal attacks.

Here's the only "personal attack" I see in either of our posts.

Please do not build an alternative argument on my behalf as usual

If you think disagreeing with you is a personal attack, you're WAY to sensitive. Chill dude, I just argue with you for fun. Don't take it personally. None of it is intended that way.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Are you sure you are willing to accept -this- challenge?

Regarding your "challenge," I think I did, it just wasn't the answer you were expecting. Read your quotes again, you said the role of the front office, I basically agreed with that. In the second quote you said they did it. At that point it's up to the players and coaches to deliver, the front office doesn't play the games, they can only as you put it provide the "tools."

In today's NFL, Front Offices compete even more strongly than teams do on the field. I would argue that the Front Office work is even more important than the work on the field simply because the work of the Front Office should give the Skins the tools to become at least competitive on the field

Yes, I feel that the coaching staff is good and Zorn MIGHT be a good choice even if it is by accident. We have a solid defense and it has improved over last year. And I do love some of our players on offense.

[SkinsFreak]

Are you sure you are willing to accept -this- challenge?

Regarding your "challenge," I think I did, it just wasn't the answer you were expecting. Read your quotes again, you said the role of the front office, I basically agreed with that. In the second quote you said they did it. At that point it's up to the players and coaches to deliver, the front office doesn't play the games, they can only as you put it provide the "tools."

Exactly. Since Gibbs returned, most believe we've had some good coaches and players. Gibbs' staff was incredibly talented. But I believe the mediocre record, since Gibbs' return, was in large part due to the players and coaches, collectively, not executing on the field at a similar level as our divisional opponents. At some point, the players and coaches bare some responsibility to execute on the field. RiC has already acknowledged we have some good players and coaches, so now it's on them to get it done.

[RedskinsFreak]

Most recognize the difference in management pre-Gibbs verses post-Gibbs.

WHAT difference??

Danny then -- Danny now.
Vinny then -- Vinny now.
Mediocrity then -- mediocrity now.

There's no simpler math than can be done.

Danny learned the wrong lessons during the time Gibbs was here. He thought he needed football lessons from JJG.

(Sorry, Danny Boy, that shipped sailed long ago. You're no longer capable of improving as a "football man".)

He REALLY needed ownership lessons and taken notes on how Gibbs operates at the top of Joe Gibbs Racing. Joe shows up on race day, making sure his shirt has the right combination of sponsor logos, works the hospitality areas and signs autographs.

He doesn't go anywhere near the garage or the pit box. He knows he has no business picking up a wrench or looking at wind tunnel test results. He hires quality people to do that for him.

Danny shouldn't go anywhere near the practice field or coaching offices at Redskins Park. He DOESN'T know he has no business picking up a stopwatch or looking at combine test results. Quality people at the top of the operation is something he'll never have as long as the "I've never produced a winner, but I'll do what you ask because this is the only NFL personnel job I'll ever have a shot at" Cerrato is involved.

(And, he's ALWAYS been involved. No lower than #2 -- or better yet #1a -- in the entirety of his Redskins employment)

As I said before, Snyder values his participation in the process SO MUCH that he'd rather be an involved 8-8 than a Kraft/Rooney-like on-the-outs 13-3.

[Redskin in Canada]

I only ask one favour from the posters here. I did not start this thread and the contents have been perhaps more constructive and informative than previous discussions. I thank you for that. But please note that, as I have predicted in the past, there is an increasing number of frustrated and disappointed fans who are losing or have lost any hope about the good performance of the current Front Office. While some of you may still disagree with us about their performance, I ask you very kindly to understand that these are long term loyal fans who love the team no less than any of you. Our pain is greater because we lost hope with Snyder and Cerrato. Every new season has become a chronicle of a well announced mediocre result and the sad thing is that we all see it coming.

And?

And nothing to you. Whatever message was contained went completely over your head. No wonder the level of debate has fallen to the point where it is.

Hopeless.

[KazooSkinsFan]

No wonder the level of debate has fallen to the point where it is.

Hopeless.

Well, I for one thank you for your contribution to that effort!

[SkinsFreak]

I only ask one favour from the posters here. I did not start this thread and the contents have been perhaps more constructive and informative than previous discussions. I thank you for that. But please note that, as I have predicted in the past, there is an increasing number of frustrated and disappointed fans who are losing or have lost any hope about the good performance of the current Front Office. While some of you may still disagree with us about their performance, I ask you very kindly to understand that these are long term loyal fans who love the team no less than any of you. Our pain is greater because we lost hope with Snyder and Cerrato. Every new season has become a chronicle of a well announced mediocre result and the sad thing is that we all see it coming.

And?

And nothing to you. Whatever message was contained went completely over your head. No wonder the level of debate has fallen to the point where it is.

Hopeless.

Yes... everything you say goes waaaay over my head. LOOK... THERE GOES ANOTHER ONE!

No wonder the level of debate has fallen to the point where it is.

Yet you can't even address a single point or question in my post. Classic...

Whatever... it's cool, man. We got it... for like the gazillionth time.

[RayNAustin]

Nobody is claiming that Danny and Vinny are perfect and haven't made mistakes in the past. Even they admit that. But most are at least able to recognize and acknowledge the noticeable change in philosophy and improvement in personnel acquisitions. You keep saying we should have addressed certain positions years ago and we need more depth. How long do you think the shelf life of a NFL player is and how could any team have top tier depth at every position? Fact is, we do have good depth at many positions, including DE, DT, FS, SS, TE and RB. And while they're young and unproven due to youth, one could argue we have decent depth at WR, QB and OG. In fact, the only area I see a lack of depth is at OT, but I believe that's coming.

I couldn't agree more. I would add that this past offseason was perhaps one of the best in several years (without Joe Gibbs guiding them), which should be encouraging.

DEFENSE - The obvious improvements on defense are clear. The only minus is perhaps the loss of Springs, otherwise, a big plus on D.

OFFENSE - The 0-line was improved. It's far from perfect, but better. Kelly and Thomas look to be stepping up, and MM may be a real steal of a sleeper. There is something about this kid that is special, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him as the #2 by the end of the year.

My biggest concern on O, even more than Campbell, is Zorn. I'm on the fence about him .. his plan to use Betts as the 3rd down back is a RED FLAG. Maybe he's just that brilliant ... but I just don't see how you take Portis off the field on 3rd down ... if it's a run, I want Portis with the ball ... and if it's a pass, I want Portis in pass pro. To do otherwise makes no logical sense to me, and brings into question Zorn's coaching credibility in my mind, and you gotta think Portis doesn't want to ride pine on 3rd downs?

No one seems to be talking much about this .. and I think it's a carry over from last year. I don't think Zorn likes Portis all that well. That's troubling.

SPECIAL TEAMS - have not looked good on kick coverage.

As for the rest of the NFC East:

Giants - still the team to beat

Eagles - Lost JJ, and Dawkins. Got to believe that overall, they're behind last year defensively.

Cowboys - Roy Williams is not T.O., and they're going to miss TO's production. They're behind last year offensively.

Redskin made net gains on both offense and defense, so I say it's:

NYG
WASH
Philly
Cowboys.

That right folks, the Cowpies are bringin' up the rear.

[SKINFAN]

Honestly, I liked it better when we were projected bottom of the pack, it made the team play with the chip on the shoulder.

[RedskinsFreak]

Honestly, I liked it better when we were projected bottom of the pack, it made the team play with the chip on the shoulder.

Ummm .... they are. At least in the NFC East.

[Champsturf]

Honestly, I liked it better when we were projected bottom of the pack, it made the team play with the chip on the shoulder.

The Skins are projected at the bottom by most. Tell me though, where did they get when they played with that chip on their collective shoulder?

Nevermind. I already know the answer.

[SKINFAN]

weren't we projected as bottom barrel team last year? First term, first year coach, new west coast offense for the qb, yadda yadda. The guys played with the chip on shoulder and we blazed off to 6-2, then everyone built us up on how good we are, put us up there in the power rankings then the crash. It seemed like the team actually bought into the hype, and it seemed like we could've won a few of the 2-6 stretch. Weren't we ahead on the 3rd Qtr on some of them games?

[Champsturf]

weren't we projected as bottom barrel team last year? First term, first year coach, new west coast offense for the qb, yadda yadda. The guys played with the chip on shoulder and we blazed off to 6-2, then everyone built us up on how good we are, put us up there in the power rankings then the crash. It seemed like the team actually bought into the hype, and it seemed like we could've won a few of the 2-6 stretch. Weren't we ahead on the 3rd Qtr on some of them games?

Umm...where did they finish? This is a 16 week season, right? C'mon man, really?

[SKINFAN]

yup, really

[CanesSkins26]

No one would have guessed that Jansen would have deteriorated so badly last season.

There's an article from 2 to 3 years ago in which Parcells talks about how Jansen has declined. His poor play should not have been a surprise to anybody.