JC's ability and comparison to other QB's

[USAFSkinFan]

[color=yellowCampbell, in my opinion just does not have the intangibles BUT at the same time I think that Campbell is better than a lot of other QBs presently playing in the NFL and at this time he looks like he's going to be our starting QB and the guy that we should support.

I think this says it all... We've seen enough of Cambell to know he doesn't have the "it" factor, but neither have a lot of other guys that went on to win big (e.g. Rypien, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Hostetler, and even Doug Williams wasn't a real "intangible" kind of guy a lot of times [I see an argument there])... none of those guys were the best, but they limited their mistakes and they had a great supporting cast...

Cambell is capable of getting the job done. He's not the type to take the whole team on his back, but if the guys around him do good things, I think he will too...

[KazooSkinsFan]

Cambell is capable of getting the job done. He's not the type to take the whole team on his back, but if the guys around him do good things, I think he will too...

I agree, which is why I support him starting this year. But we can't count on the D we at least should have this year indefinitely being able to carry the team and I just don't think his upside is that great. If he can't loft deep passes or complete simple throws to open receivers, which he can't, then no amount of intelligence or learning is going to make up for it. We need to start looking for someone better.

[SnyderSucks]

Cambell is capable of getting the job done. He's not the type to take the whole team on his back, but if the guys around him do good things, I think he will too...

I agree, which is why I support him starting this year. But we can't count on the D we at least should have this year indefinitely being able to carry the team and I just don't think his upside is that great. If he can't loft deep passes or complete simple throws to open receivers, which he can't, then no amount of intelligence or learning is going to make up for it. We need to start looking for someone better.

Pretty obvious the team already started looking this offseason...

Also, be careful what you wish for.

Replaced Rypien with Shuler/Freisz/Frerrotte. Used #1 pick.
Replace Frerotte with Green and lost green during ownership change.
Replaced Green with Johnson, giving up more than a first round pick.
Replaced Johnson with George.
Replace George with Tony Banks.
Replaced Banks with Weurfel/Mathews. Drafted Ramsey in the first.
Replaced Ramsey with Brunnell.
Replaced Brunnell with Campbell. Gave up more than a first round pick.

Basically numerous years of ineptitude punctuated by brief periods of competence. Looking back, it's obvious that Green or Johnson should have been retained. Would hate to trade campbell and more than a first round pick and get back Shuler, George, Banks, Weurfel, Mathews, Ramsey...the percentage of busts to competent players is pretty high, and there are no superstars on the list.

[Tuss76]

IMO Todd Collins has looked a whole lot better than Campbell, but I thought that last year to.

[SKINFAN]

Even Daniel looked better, the pre snap reads, the check offs, the progression reads etc. JCamp just looked like he did last year, he looked almost afraid to make a mistake. It was almost painful to watch him go thru his progression and windup the arm to throw. I hope, I REALLY hope that he is just taking it real slow and will turn it on in Sept.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Even Daniel looked better, the pre snap reads, the check offs, the progression reads etc

apples and oranges

[markshark84]

Every single excuse (and I mean every single one) has been used for why JC is a bad QB. I think that those times are over. If he doesn't produce we will not resign him (hopefully). Personally, after all the talk JC gave us this offseason, his preseason results have been horrendous. While I understand they are preseason, the mistakes he has been making are the exact same ones he was making in the regular season. I loved the whole "inner dragon" thing. The only problem is that he must have been referring to a sluggish, non-fire breathing dragon that can't fly.

Unfortunetly, expect the same old JC this season. The fact that JC has not performed is NOT because of his inability to absorb a new playbook, or his lack or receivers, or that his OL doesn't give him adequate time in the pocket, or that the OL got injured, or that the RBs got banged up, or that his HC is bad, or that he is under a different head coach, or that the FO doesn't support him. These are all excuses given by people on this board --- none of which have been proven correct.

The real reason that JC isn't good, is because he just isn't good. JC should have been demoted after Collins took us to the playoffs. Why he wasn't baffles me.

The thing that has made me the most upset over this is that we WASTED 4 years with these excuses. Give us a good or even solid QB (look what collins did) and this is a playoff team.

[SnyderSucks]

Every single excuse (and I mean every single one) has been used for why JC is a bad QB. I think that those times are over. If he doesn't produce we will not resign him (hopefully). Personally, after all the talk JC gave us this offseason, his preseason results have been horrendous. While I understand they are preseason, the mistakes he has been making are the exact same ones he was making in the regular season. I loved the whole "inner dragon" thing. The only problem is that he must have been referring to a sluggish, non-fire breathing dragon that can't fly.

Unfortunetly, expect the same old JC this season. The fact that JC has not performed is NOT because of his inability to absorb a new playbook, or his lack or receivers, or that his OL doesn't give him adequate time in the pocket, or that the OL got injured, or that the RBs got banged up, or that his HC is bad, or that he is under a different head coach, or that the FO doesn't support him. These are all excuses given by people on this board --- none of which have been proven correct.

The real reason that JC isn't good, is because he just isn't good. JC should have been demoted after Collins took us to the playoffs. Why he wasn't baffles me.

The thing that has made me the most upset over this is that we WASTED 4 years with these excuses. Give us a good or even solid QB (look what collins did) and this is a playoff team.

In case you are wondering Collins threw for a lower completion percentage, fewer yards, fewer yards per game, same yards per completion, fewer touchdowns (1), and more interceptions (1). Yep, that would have been the difference on the team...

It's fine to say you aren't satisfied with Campbell and his middle of the pack stats, but you undercut your own argument when you follow it by asking for a replacement who is at best equal or slightly worse than Campbell.

Campbell, by the way, has measurably improved each season. Higher QB rating, higher completion percentage. If he improves as much this year as he did last year, he'll be top 8 in QB rating...Let's hope for improvement, and if not, Campbell will be gone and we'll draft Heath Shuler for next season...

[markshark84]

Every single excuse (and I mean every single one) has been used for why JC is a bad QB. I think that those times are over. If he doesn't produce we will not resign him (hopefully). Personally, after all the talk JC gave us this offseason, his preseason results have been horrendous. While I understand they are preseason, the mistakes he has been making are the exact same ones he was making in the regular season. I loved the whole "inner dragon" thing. The only problem is that he must have been referring to a sluggish, non-fire breathing dragon that can't fly.

Unfortunetly, expect the same old JC this season. The fact that JC has not performed is NOT because of his inability to absorb a new playbook, or his lack or receivers, or that his OL doesn't give him adequate time in the pocket, or that the OL got injured, or that the RBs got banged up, or that his HC is bad, or that he is under a different head coach, or that the FO doesn't support him. These are all excuses given by people on this board --- none of which have been proven correct.

The real reason that JC isn't good, is because he just isn't good. JC should have been demoted after Collins took us to the playoffs. Why he wasn't baffles me.

The thing that has made me the most upset over this is that we WASTED 4 years with these excuses. Give us a good or even solid QB (look what collins did) and this is a playoff team.

In case you are wondering Collins threw for a lower completion percentage, fewer yards, fewer yards per game, same yards per completion, fewer touchdowns (1), and more interceptions (1). Yep, that would have been the difference on the team...

It's fine to say you aren't satisfied with Campbell and his middle of the pack stats, but you undercut your own argument when you follow it by asking for a replacement who is at best equal or slightly worse than Campbell.

Campbell, by the way, has measurably improved each season. Higher QB rating, higher completion percentage. If he improves as much this year as he did last year, he'll be top 8 in QB rating...Let's hope for improvement, and if not, Campbell will be gone and we'll draft Heath Shuler for next season...

Collins won. Plain and simple. JC didn't. JC was 5-7 -- having lost 4 straight. Collins then went 4-0 and LEAD us into the playoffs. People who concentrate on stats don't understand the position.

And even if you want to compare stats (and I am only doing this to prove your post incorrect), you are straight up WRONG when you say that JC averaged more passing yards in 2007 (and of course JC would have more yards --- he played 9 more games... what was your point there?). Collins averaged 222. JC averaged 207. And for your precious QB rating; Collins was 100+. Additionally, Collins didn't throw any interceptions in that four game span. I have no idea what your point was because all your arguement points were ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

And I cannot agree with JC's "improvement". Top 8 in QB rating --- do you really think this will happen.....and do you really care? Last year he was 19th --- how in the world do you go from 19th to 8th --- especially with the final 8 games he had last season. You just don't make sense. Also, WCO QBs generally have higher QB ratings than others. Since JC is in a WCO offense and generally dumps off the ball after he has checked down his receivers, he will have a higher QB rating than a normal QB would outside the WCO. Now -- how many yards does he throw for? Does he LEAD our offense to score TDs? Does he take this team on his back for wins? JC does none of these things. I understand that it is tough to argue for JC without making the excuses I listed above.

And if he plays bad again this year, then we will draft one of the 7 or so quality college QBs entering the draft next year. The upcoming draft may be one of the best for QBs in the past decade.

Finally, and to drive my point ---- OUR OFFENSE AVERAGED 11 POINTS PER GAME IN OUR LAST 10 GAMES. I COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT HIS QB RATING IS. YOU CAN HAVE QB RATING ---- I'LL TAKE POINTS AND WINS ---- TWO THINGS JC CANNOT SEAM TO ACCUMULATE.

I must say, I would love to have some of that kool-aid you appear to be drinking. It could potentially help other people deal with the economy.

[SnyderSucks]

Every single excuse (and I mean every single one) has been used for why JC is a bad QB. I think that those times are over. If he doesn't produce we will not resign him (hopefully). Personally, after all the talk JC gave us this offseason, his preseason results have been horrendous. While I understand they are preseason, the mistakes he has been making are the exact same ones he was making in the regular season. I loved the whole "inner dragon" thing. The only problem is that he must have been referring to a sluggish, non-fire breathing dragon that can't fly.

Unfortunetly, expect the same old JC this season. The fact that JC has not performed is NOT because of his inability to absorb a new playbook, or his lack or receivers, or that his OL doesn't give him adequate time in the pocket, or that the OL got injured, or that the RBs got banged up, or that his HC is bad, or that he is under a different head coach, or that the FO doesn't support him. These are all excuses given by people on this board --- none of which have been proven correct.

The real reason that JC isn't good, is because he just isn't good. JC should have been demoted after Collins took us to the playoffs. Why he wasn't baffles me.

The thing that has made me the most upset over this is that we WASTED 4 years with these excuses. Give us a good or even solid QB (look what collins did) and this is a playoff team.

In case you are wondering Collins threw for a lower completion percentage, fewer yards, fewer yards per game, same yards per completion, fewer touchdowns (1), and more interceptions (1). Yep, that would have been the difference on the team...

It's fine to say you aren't satisfied with Campbell and his middle of the pack stats, but you undercut your own argument when you follow it by asking for a replacement who is at best equal or slightly worse than Campbell.

Campbell, by the way, has measurably improved each season. Higher QB rating, higher completion percentage. If he improves as much this year as he did last year, he'll be top 8 in QB rating...Let's hope for improvement, and if not, Campbell will be gone and we'll draft Heath Shuler for next season...

Collins won. Plain and simple. JC didn't. JC was 5-7 -- having lost 4 straight. Collins then went 4-0 and LEAD us into the playoffs. People who concentrate on stats don't understand the position.

And even if you want to compare stats (and I am only doing this to prove your post incorrect), you are straight up WRONG when you say that JC averaged more passing yards in 2007 (and of course JC would have more yards --- he played 9 more games... what was your point there?). Collins averaged 222. JC averaged 207. And for your precious QB rating; Collins was 100+. Additionally, Collins didn't throw any interceptions in that four game span. I have no idea what your point was because all your arguement points were ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

And I cannot agree with JC's "improvement". Top 8 in QB rating --- do you really think this will happen.....and do you really care? Last year he was 19th --- how in the world do you go from 19th to 8th --- especially with the final 8 games he had last season. You just don't make sense. Also, WCO QBs generally have higher QB ratings than others. Since JC is in a WCO offense and generally dumps off the ball after he has checked down his receivers, he will have a higher QB rating than a normal QB would outside the WCO. Now -- how many yards does he throw for? Does he LEAD our offense to score TDs? Does he take this team on his back for wins? JC does none of these things. I understand that it is tough to argue for JC without making the excuses I listed above.

And if he plays bad again this year, then we will draft one of the 7 or so quality college QBs entering the draft next year. The upcoming draft may be one of the best for QBs in the past decade.

Finally, and to drive my point ---- OUR OFFENSE AVERAGED 11 POINTS PER GAME IN OUR LAST 10 GAMES. I COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT HIS QB RATING IS. YOU CAN HAVE QB RATING ---- I'LL TAKE POINTS AND WINS ---- TWO THINGS JC CANNOT SEAM TO ACCUMULATE.

I must say, I would love to have some of that kool-aid you appear to be drinking. It could potentially help other people deal with the economy.

Collins - I thought you said Kerry from Tennessee.

As for the QB rating, if his rating goes up as much as it did last year, that would put him from 19 to 8. You can look if you like.

If all you care about is points, why aren't you on here bashing Portis as past his prime and can't do it any longer? Why not go after Samuels, Rabach, and Randy Thomas? Randle El and Moss? Or is it an "excuse" to say Moss was triple covered every play?

I'm not trying to drink Kool Aid, merely point out that Campbell has improved each year, contrary to what you might think reading posts on here. There is no reason to believe he won't improve again this year, and that might be good enough for the playoffs.

[Deadskins]

Collins won. Plain and simple. JC didn't. JC was 5-7 -- having lost 4 straight. Collins then went 4-0 and LEAD us into the playoffs. People who concentrate on stats don't understand the position.

To be fair, that 4 game losing streak coincided with the loss of Sean Taylor, first to injury, then to murder. The first game of the streak was against the Smeagols, when we had a big lead, then ST went down and they came back on the defense. Then the Pies exploited ST's absence and TO scored four TDs. We also should have won the Bills game, having a late lead before they marched for a game winning FG, aided by Gibbs double time out, 15-yard penalty. None of those losses were JC's fault. I'm no JC apologist, but let's at least get the facts straight.

[markshark84]

Every single excuse (and I mean every single one) has been used for why JC is a bad QB. I think that those times are over. If he doesn't produce we will not resign him (hopefully). Personally, after all the talk JC gave us this offseason, his preseason results have been horrendous. While I understand they are preseason, the mistakes he has been making are the exact same ones he was making in the regular season. I loved the whole "inner dragon" thing. The only problem is that he must have been referring to a sluggish, non-fire breathing dragon that can't fly.

Unfortunetly, expect the same old JC this season. The fact that JC has not performed is NOT because of his inability to absorb a new playbook, or his lack or receivers, or that his OL doesn't give him adequate time in the pocket, or that the OL got injured, or that the RBs got banged up, or that his HC is bad, or that he is under a different head coach, or that the FO doesn't support him. These are all excuses given by people on this board --- none of which have been proven correct.

The real reason that JC isn't good, is because he just isn't good. JC should have been demoted after Collins took us to the playoffs. Why he wasn't baffles me.

The thing that has made me the most upset over this is that we WASTED 4 years with these excuses. Give us a good or even solid QB (look what collins did) and this is a playoff team.

In case you are wondering Collins threw for a lower completion percentage, fewer yards, fewer yards per game, same yards per completion, fewer touchdowns (1), and more interceptions (1). Yep, that would have been the difference on the team...

It's fine to say you aren't satisfied with Campbell and his middle of the pack stats, but you undercut your own argument when you follow it by asking for a replacement who is at best equal or slightly worse than Campbell.

Campbell, by the way, has measurably improved each season. Higher QB rating, higher completion percentage. If he improves as much this year as he did last year, he'll be top 8 in QB rating...Let's hope for improvement, and if not, Campbell will be gone and we'll draft Heath Shuler for next season...

Collins won. Plain and simple. JC didn't. JC was 5-7 -- having lost 4 straight. Collins then went 4-0 and LEAD us into the playoffs. People who concentrate on stats don't understand the position.

And even if you want to compare stats (and I am only doing this to prove your post incorrect), you are straight up WRONG when you say that JC averaged more passing yards in 2007 (and of course JC would have more yards --- he played 9 more games... what was your point there?). Collins averaged 222. JC averaged 207. And for your precious QB rating; Collins was 100+. Additionally, Collins didn't throw any interceptions in that four game span. I have no idea what your point was because all your arguement points were ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

And I cannot agree with JC's "improvement". Top 8 in QB rating --- do you really think this will happen.....and do you really care? Last year he was 19th --- how in the world do you go from 19th to 8th --- especially with the final 8 games he had last season. You just don't make sense. Also, WCO QBs generally have higher QB ratings than others. Since JC is in a WCO offense and generally dumps off the ball after he has checked down his receivers, he will have a higher QB rating than a normal QB would outside the WCO. Now -- how many yards does he throw for? Does he LEAD our offense to score TDs? Does he take this team on his back for wins? JC does none of these things. I understand that it is tough to argue for JC without making the excuses I listed above.

And if he plays bad again this year, then we will draft one of the 7 or so quality college QBs entering the draft next year. The upcoming draft may be one of the best for QBs in the past decade.

Finally, and to drive my point ---- OUR OFFENSE AVERAGED 11 POINTS PER GAME IN OUR LAST 10 GAMES. I COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT HIS QB RATING IS. YOU CAN HAVE QB RATING ---- I'LL TAKE POINTS AND WINS ---- TWO THINGS JC CANNOT SEAM TO ACCUMULATE.

I must say, I would love to have some of that kool-aid you appear to be drinking. It could potentially help other people deal with the economy.

Collins - I thought you said Kerry from Tennessee.

As for the QB rating, if his rating goes up as much as it did last year, that would put him from 19 to 8. You can look if you like.

If all you care about is points, why aren't you on here bashing Portis as past his prime and can't do it any longer? Why not go after Samuels, Rabach, and Randy Thomas? Randle El and Moss? Or is it an "excuse" to say Moss was triple covered every play?

I'm not trying to drink Kool Aid, merely point out that Campbell has improved each year, contrary to what you might think reading posts on here. There is no reason to believe he won't improve again this year, and that might be good enough for the playoffs.

Fair enough on Kerry Collins. I am happy that you agree with Todd, though.

Again, I cannot reiterate enough that QB rating doesn't mean squat. As far as your comment on CP, it makes NO sense. CP was the only reason this team had even a fraction of an offense last year. And as far as scoring, he had 9 TDs last year. He has averaged 8.5 as a redskin. So I am not sure your arguement makes sense. Besides, once teams realized that JC can't throw, they put 8 in the box to stop CP on every play and dared JC to throw the ball. We all know how those 10 games went.

As far as the others, they weren't the reason the offense was putride last year (well, ARE may have had something to do with it along with JC). None of those people were the purported "LEADERS" on offense. JC apparentely held that role.

Oh -- and Moss' problem wasn't that he was triple covered, it was because of who was throwing the ball to him. And if Moss was triple covered and defenses put 8 in the box to protect against CP, I have no idea why JC could not find open receivers downfield. Probably because he lacked field vision and took to long to check off receivers....which appears to be the problem he is currently having.

And yes, you are drinking the kool aid. JC has made the same mistakes over and over again throughout the years, yet you still believe that he will miraculously change this season because of an increase in QB rating ---- a rating that was mostly influenced by the fact he changed to the WCO last season (an increase that had nothing to do with his own improvement). Finally, if you read this board last season, you would have thought that JC was headed to the pro bowl. Then, in the second half of the season, the excuses started, and now reality has set in.

[markshark84]

Collins won. Plain and simple. JC didn't. JC was 5-7 -- having lost 4 straight. Collins then went 4-0 and LEAD us into the playoffs. People who concentrate on stats don't understand the position.

To be fair, that 4 game losing streak coincided with the loss of Sean Taylor, first to injury, then to murder. The first game of the streak was against the Smeagols, when we had a big lead, then ST went down and they came back on the defense. Then the Pies exploited ST's absence and TO scored four TDs. We also should have won the Bills game, having a late lead before they marched for a game winning FG, aided by Gibbs double time out, 15-yard penalty. None of those losses were JC's fault. I'm no JC apologist, but let's at least get the facts straight.

Taylor died on Nov. 27th. The skins had already lost 3 straight before his death. The Bills game was lost because of an oversight by Gibbs more than grieving. The others proir to STs death should have been won (with the exception of the 6 TO Tampa game), regardless of Taylor's injuries. The Dallas game was one of JCs best as a skins, yet we only put up 23 points.

Also the fact that a 2nd string QB could lead a team, after a horrific death, and the injury to the starting QB, to win 4 straight and make the playoffs is unbelievable. Then, in the off-season, he is brushed aside and the mediocre starter (who has never lead his pro team to the playoffs) rolls back in and we, again, fade back to mediocrity.

[Paralis]

And yet... at the end of the 2007 season, Todd Collins was a free agent and Jason Campbell was the unquestioned starting QB for the 2008 Redskins.

If Collins is so good, why couldn't he find a single team that would at least let him compete for a starting position? Why is he still a Redskin?

[Champsturf]

And yet... at the end of the 2007 season, Todd Collins was a free agent and Jason Campbell was the unquestioned starting QB for the 2008 Redskins.

If Collins is so good, why couldn't he find a single team that would at least let him compete for a starting position? Why is he still a Redskin?

And why is Campbell? He won't be after this year.

[CanesSkins26]

And yet... at the end of the 2007 season, Todd Collins was a free agent and Jason Campbell was the unquestioned starting QB for the 2008 Redskins.

If Collins is so good, why couldn't he find a single team that would at least let him compete for a starting position? Why is he still a Redskin?

And why is Campbell? He won't be after this year.

We can only hope.

[Deadskins]

Collins won. Plain and simple. JC didn't. JC was 5-7 -- having lost 4 straight. Collins then went 4-0 and LEAD us into the playoffs. People who concentrate on stats don't understand the position.

To be fair, that 4 game losing streak coincided with the loss of Sean Taylor, first to injury, then to murder. The first game of the streak was against the Smeagols, when we had a big lead, then ST went down and they came back on the defense. Then the Pies exploited ST's absence and TO scored four TDs. We also should have won the Bills game, having a late lead before they marched for a game winning FG, aided by Gibbs double time out, 15-yard penalty. None of those losses were JC's fault. I'm no JC apologist, but let's at least get the facts straight.

Taylor died on Nov. 27th. The skins had already lost 3 straight before his death. The Bills game was lost because of an oversight by Gibbs more than grieving.

Did you even read my post?

[SkinsJock]

And yet... at the end of the 2007 season, Todd Collins was a free agent and Jason Campbell was the unquestioned starting QB for the 2008 Redskins.
If Collins is so good, why couldn't he find a single team that would at least let him compete for a starting position? Why is he still a Redskin?

And why is Campbell? He won't be after this year.

We can only hope.

The guys that know anything about QBs in the NFL seem to think that Campbell is the better QB.

The guys that have any say on who gives this team the best chance for success seem to think that Campbell is the better QB.

I think that Campbell has a better chance of being a QB in the NFL next year than Collins

I am not a Campbell fan but I certainly hope that he has a really good year this year because in my opinion that is what's best for the team.

Why would you not want Campbell to not have a good year as one of our QBs and possibly our starting QB? IF he does show that he can at least be effective here, why would you not want him as one of your QBs?

[CanesSkins26]

Why would you not want Campbell to not have a good year as one of our QBs and possibly our starting QB? IF he does show that he can at least be effective here, why would you not want him as one of your QBs?

We all HOPE that he can have a good year, but I have very little confidence that it's actually going to happen. The bottom line is that to this point JC has shown very little to indicate that he can be anything other than a mediocre NFL qb.

[RedskinsFreak]

We all HOPE that he can have a good year, but I have very little confidence that it's actually going to happen. The bottom line is that to this point JC has shown very little to indicate that he can be anything other than a mediocre NFL qb.

I don't think there are many -- if any -- people here who are fervently rooting FOR any member of the Redskins to do poorly.

I support every member of the B&G and will cheer my fool head off for them on Sundays.

But here, what the heart wants and what the head knows (or, at least, has seen to this point) are in total contradiction to one another.

I want JC to step up and be a quality NFL quarterback.

I just don't expect him to.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I don't think there are many -- if any -- people here who are fervently rooting FOR any member of the Redskins to do poorly

Oh I do. I agree the majority of us just want the Skins to win and are happy if players we're getting down on step it up. But there are a lot of people who are more invested in their views on certain players then their making it and contributing to the team.

Look at my view on JC for example, I started a forum that this is his last year because I don't think he'll stay for backup money and I don't think he's going to be worth start up money. Then most of the rest of my arguments are against those who want to start TC or the babies based basically only on their hatred of JC.

Of that group they have picked a side. JC is ALL bad and their pets are all good. With that extremity that they want or would recognize if JC actually plays OK is doubful to me in a lot of cases. If JC plays well for a few games I'm going to be slow to change my overall view until later in the season to be sure he keeps it up. But I'm going to be looking for signs he's improving, not proof that I was right. I really, truly don't think quite a few people are going to do anything but look for arguments to come here and pound him with.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I don't think there are many -- if any -- people here who are fervently rooting FOR any member of the Redskins to do poorly

Oh I do. I agree the majority of us just want the Skins to win and are happy if players we're getting down on step it up. But there are a lot of people who are more invested in their views on certain players then their making it and contributing to the team.

Look at my view on JC for example, I started a forum that this is his last year because I don't think he'll stay for backup money and I don't think he's going to be worth start up money. Then most of the rest of my arguments are against those who want to start TC or the babies based basically only on their hatred of JC.

Of that group they have picked a side. JC is ALL bad and their pets are all good. With that extremity that they want or would recognize if JC actually plays OK is doubful to me in a lot of cases. If JC plays well for a few games I'm going to be slow to change my overall view until later in the season to be sure he keeps it up. But I'm going to be looking for signs he's improving, not proof that I was right. I really, truly don't think quite a few people are going to do anything but look for arguments to come here and pound him with.

*smdh

[KazooSkinsFan]

*smdh

Don't be so naive. Focusing on JC, read the vitriol. The complete and utter lack of any credit for anything he does right or the challenges he faced ever. Sure, they'd be "happy" to be wrong. They'll be here giving him credit. You just believe that, Chris.

[SkinsJock]

I am also skeptical of Campbell's ability to be the QB we need - I think he has all the physical attributes a QB needs, he just has not made me feel he can get it done. I think that Campbell last year may have got so concerned about not turning the ball over that it took away some aggressiveness and I'm not sure he can get that back.

Anyway, I'm sure that most want him to succeed for the team and his own sake but I will agree with Kazoo in that there are a few here that seem to have this "I told you, so I'm better" attitude - no worries it takes all types and who really cares - it's just a game

looking forward to it - GO SKINS

[markshark84]

I don't think there are many -- if any -- people here who are fervently rooting FOR any member of the Redskins to do poorly

Oh I do. I agree the majority of us just want the Skins to win and are happy if players we're getting down on step it up. But there are a lot of people who are more invested in their views on certain players then their making it and contributing to the team.

Look at my view on JC for example, I started a forum that this is his last year because I don't think he'll stay for backup money and I don't think he's going to be worth start up money. Then most of the rest of my arguments are against those who want to start TC or the babies based basically only on their hatred of JC.

Of that group they have picked a side. JC is ALL bad and their pets are all good. With that extremity that they want or would recognize if JC actually plays OK is doubful to me in a lot of cases. If JC plays well for a few games I'm going to be slow to change my overall view until later in the season to be sure he keeps it up. But I'm going to be looking for signs he's improving, not proof that I was right. I really, truly don't think quite a few people are going to do anything but look for arguments to come here and pound him with.

I tend to agree with Redskinsfreak in that the people on here want the skins to succeed more so than having their predictions come true. I can personally say that I have lost my patience with JC, but if he did well, I would be happy for him....and more importantly, for the team. It has been close to 2 decades since this team has been relevent (with the exception of the pre-season hype of the 2000 team).

In terms of the starting collins or "babies", I just think that people are sick of providing excuses for JC and there is a sound arguement for TC (I personally don't think so with the others). I am absolutely certain that no one on this board has a "hatred" for JC. JC is not a person you can hate, anyways.

And as far as JC not taking back up money ---- if he has a bad year, he will either have to take backup money or he won't be in the league. If you think about it, the skins front office couldn't get a 3rd round pick for JC straight up in the offseason.