SI's Ross Tucker: Skins Had One of the Worst Off-Seasons

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:52 pm

Before I link to it, it is very instructive to read this piece and note that Tucker utterly fails to mention the team he is ripping more than once deemed him unfit for a pro team's roster. That's "unbiased" analysis for you ladies and gentleman.

What a joke:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=c ... _offseason

You can now dismiss anything he writes about this team.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:28 pm

The only thing I partially agree with is that we overpaid D. Hall a bit, because we could have gotten him for less. But at what cost? I think it's a good thing to have him be satisfied with his compensation, rather than thinking we got him on the cheap.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:35 pm

I think it's foolish to look at the total value of a contract (not you DS, the writer) because it just doesn't represent anything in today's game, it's basically a meaningless number.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:51 pm

Fios wrote:Before I link to it, it is very instructive to read this piece and note that Tucker utterly fails to mention the team he is ripping more than once deemed him unfit for a pro team's roster. That's "unbiased" analysis for you ladies and gentleman.

What a joke:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=c ... _offseason

You can now dismiss anything he writes about this team.

His main beef is that they talked about going after Cutler and Sanchez? I'm sure that's going to have a real impact on us in that late November stretch when we need to win games. Cause you know, Campbell will be setting up to throw the game-winning pass, and then all of the sudden he'll think "I wonder why Snyder had so much interest in Cutl—" *boom* and he'll be sacked. This is a little like saying Carolina had an awful offseason because they didn't lock up Peppers until recently. Uh. . .OK.

Also, I'm getting a little tired of the analysts who use phrases like "Campbell has done everything asked of him" and "that's not the way to show confidence in your QB." Campbell has the starting job in Washington, and the only reason we are looking at other options is because, to be frank, he's not developing as quickly as he needs to. I can show up to Redskins Park and "do everything asked of me," but that doesn't make me a winning QB with a killer instinct.

I still have some faith that Campbell can pull it off this year, but we have to be realistic and realize that he can't take 5 full seasons of play to develop into a reliable starter. He's going to have to get there or be prepared to ride the bench.

On Hall, I don't really know where he's coming from. We didn't pay him the kind of money he was making in Oakland, and he clearly has potential. With a lower offer he may have gone elsewhere, leaving us with another year of Springs / Rogers, which I don't think would have worked out for us. We got one of the best corners in the FA market. Most people are citing this as a positive for the Skins, not a negative.

I'm also not sure I understand what his deal is with Albert Haynesworth. There were a half-dozen teams right behind us in line ready to pay him about as much as we did. He is widely ranked as the most important DT going into this season. Yes, there are risks, but I don't think citing his first couple of years in the league is much of an argument. (He didn't even mention injuries, which is my main concern.)

Finally, he's just plain wrong on Orakpo.

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:52 pm

Fios wrote:I think it's foolish to look at the total value of a contract (not you DS, the writer) because it just doesn't represent anything in today's game, it's basically a meaningless number.

True.

But that same value counts against the cap, no? I mention this because this team needs better backups and a vast part of the cap is being eaten by a handful of solid, if not spectacular, starters (except Portis, which is superb).

Surely some cap expert out there can shed some light on the situation?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:31 pm

Hall could have gotten this money elsewhere, we paid him decently. I think Baltimore would have snatched him up if we hadn't paid him.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:58 pm

El Mexican wrote:
Fios wrote:I think it's foolish to look at the total value of a contract (not you DS, the writer) because it just doesn't represent anything in today's game, it's basically a meaningless number.
True.

But that same value counts against the cap, no?

Nope... but 1niksder can shed more light on that. Unfortunately, that's a misconception and still not understood even by analysts who are supposed to know that kind of stuff. They say we were foolish to spend $100M on Haynesworth. Yet that money hasn't been spent yet and the contract is written in a manner that lessens the cap hit. For example, $30M is to be paid in the 7th year of the contract, but by the time the 7th year rolls around, his contract will have been reworked or he'll have been released. Albert will never see $100M and that number doesn't go against our cap. Check out 1niksder's article "How To Circumvent Cap Hell" for more info.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:21 pm

I disagree that we overpaid for Hall. His fourth week he was starting for us and he was producing. I like the signing and I have always liked Hall, even when he was elsewhere.

As illustrated, Haynesworth isn't as expensive as the headlines allude to. 1nik is awesome in this realm and please, check his piece.

On a personal note, let 'em hate. That brings us under the radar and if JC and the offense come together like I think they can with the 2nd year of this offense we're going to surprise a lot of people. I've got a front seat on the wagon already and until they prove me otherwise, I'm stayin.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:52 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:I've got a front seat on the wagon already and until they prove me otherwise, I'm stayin.

Me, I'm in the back row...

'Cause I got on a long time ago. :lol:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:58 pm

Their top draft choice, Brian Orakpo(notes), has a questionable motor and moving him to the strong-side linebacker position makes him a project as the 13th overall pick.

The only part of the piece that I agree with is the bold part above. I love Orakpo as and end, but I think that having him learn for defensive end and SAM is stupid. The kid excelled as an end in college and has the perfect size for the position. I really don't understand why they are even experimenting with having him playing linebacker on so-called "non passing" downs.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:44 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:The only part of the piece that I agree with is the bold part above. I love Orakpo as and end, but I think that having him learn for defensive end and SAM is stupid. The kid excelled as an end in college and has the perfect size for the position. I really don't understand why they are even experimenting with having him playing linebacker on so-called "non passing" downs.

True he excelled at DE as a pass rusher but he had trouble stopping the run (at times) Moving him to SAM on running downs is better than have him running to the sidelines. He'll line up at DE on passing downs but will be more yhan just a situational player. Not sure I want him covering TE and HB when teams pass on obvious running downs but if it doesn't workout it's not like he'll have to learn to play DE full time.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:47 am

1niksder wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:The only part of the piece that I agree with is the bold part above. I love Orakpo as and end, but I think that having him learn for defensive end and SAM is stupid. The kid excelled as an end in college and has the perfect size for the position. I really don't understand why they are even experimenting with having him playing linebacker on so-called "non passing" downs.

True he excelled at DE as a pass rusher but he had trouble stopping the run (at times) Moving him to SAM on running downs is better than have him running to the sidelines. He'll line up at DE on passing downs but will be more yhan just a situational player. Not sure I want him covering TE and HB when teams pass on obvious running downs but if it doesn't workout it's not like he'll have to learn to play DE full time.

In addition, you have 2 veteran DEs who are really strong against the run...and not so good in the passrush. If you're trying to get your best players on the field, on obvious run downs, it makes sense to have Daniels in there, doesn't it?

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:39 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Their top draft choice, Brian Orakpo(notes), has a questionable motor and moving him to the strong-side linebacker position makes him a project as the 13th overall pick.

The only part of the piece that I agree with is the bold part above. I love Orakpo as and end, but I think that having him learn for defensive end and SAM is stupid. The kid excelled as an end in college and has the perfect size for the position. I really don't understand why they are even experimenting with having him playing linebacker on so-called "non passing" downs.

So, because you don't understand it, you'll just discredit it altogether. Typical. :roll:

Orakpo has already played some at the LB position at Texas, so it's not unfamiliar to him. 1niksder and Pulp already elaborated on the rest very well in my opinion.

jmooney · Post by **jmooney** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:19 pm

The author of this article is assuming that he (Orakpo), is going to START at SAM backer. I havent read this anywhere. If I were to guess, hes being groomed to back -up at that position and be brought in as a pass rusher at end. Orakpo may not start anywhere, I do expect him to get substanial playing time at both positions. He's still a rookie and has alot to learn about the NFL game. His talent is undeniable, but for Greg Blache to tip his hand as to how this kid will be utilized? Nah, I dont see it. He's going to be a situational player at BOTH positions, at least for this season.

jmooney · Post by **jmooney** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:20 pm

The author of that article is assuming that he (Orakpo), is going to START at SAM backer. I havent read this anywhere. If I were to guess, hes being groomed to back -up at that position and be brought in as a pass rusher at end. Orakpo may not start anywhere, I do expect him to get substanial playing time at both positions. He's still a rookie and has alot to learn about the NFL game. His talent is undeniable, but for Greg Blache to tip his hand as to how this kid will be utilized? Nah, I dont see it. He's going to be a situational player at BOTH positions, at least for this season.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:48 pm

Deadskins wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:I've got a front seat on the wagon already and until they prove me otherwise, I'm stayin.

Me, I'm in the back row...

'Cause I got on a long time ago.

Go ahead and read my history....

FanofallthatisGibbs · Post by **FanofallthatisGibbs** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:35 am

What strikes me as the funniest part of this piece is the whole BUT section of the Eagles great offseason. Everything that is "great" about it is turned upside down and in reality they have many more question marks than the Skins.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have proven veteran leaders than the best talent on paper. We Skins fans understand this all too well!

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:52 am

Orakpo has already played some at the LB position at Texas, so it's not unfamiliar to him.

When did Orakpo play lb in a 4-3 defense at Texas?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:09 am

In addition, you have 2 veteran DEs who are really strong against the run...and not so good in the passrush. If you're trying to get your best players on the field, on obvious run downs, it makes sense to have Daniels in there, doesn't it?

I agree with that. I just don't think that it makes sense to have Orakpo at linebacker in those situations. Orakpo is 6'4, 260 pounds. That would make him the biggest SAM linebacker in the entire NFC. Most SAM linebackers are in the 240 pound range. Maybe Orakpo can do well against the run, but I think that he is going to have a lot of trouble covering tight ends and backs, which is one of the main priorities of a SAM linebacker.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:05 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Orakpo has already played some at the LB position at Texas, so it's not unfamiliar to him.

When did Orakpo play lb in a 4-3 defense at Texas?

I never said he played LB in a "4-3" at Texas, but he has, in fact, already played at the LB position. But once again, I guess you have far more insight into Orakpo's abilities and the paid NFL coaches are clueless... right? :roll:

Your defensive coaching knowledge and player evaluation skills far exceed those of Greg Blache and the other defensive coaches... right?
ROTFALMAO

Just stick with the "I don't understand it"... because you obviously don't.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:30 am

DE is among the least dynamic of positions, meaning there is not a great deal of learning required for someone who played the position in college. Players develop their skill sets, and, aside from learning the D-line calls and O-line keys (reads), there is not much else.

An obviously intelligent player, such as Orakpo, will not be harmed or delayed in the least by adding the teaching involved in developing the skills to become a SAM backer. He will still be an effective DE, no matter what time is taken to learn to be a SAM. Pass rushing technique does not change for him, other than the posture he starts from.

On the other hand, he is gaining a greater awareness of what to expect from the player that is behind him when he does step up to the line to put his hand in the dirt. This can only make him a more potent weapon, even if the effort to use him as a 'backer does not pan out.

All this fretting is wasted energy.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:53 am

Countertrey wrote:DE is among the least dynamic of positions, meaning there is not a great deal of learning required for someone who played the position in college. Players develop their skill sets, and, aside from learning the D-line calls and O-line keys (reads), there is not much else.

An obviously intelligent player, such as Orakpo, will not be harmed or delayed in the least by adding the teaching involved in developing the skills to become a SAM backer. He will still be an effective DE, no matter what time is taken to learn to be a SAM. Pass rushing technique does not change for him, other than the posture he starts from.

On the other hand, he is gaining a greater awareness of what to expect from the player that is behind him when he does step up to the line to put his hand in the dirt. This can only make him a more potent weapon, even if the effort to use him as a 'backer does not pan out.

All this fretting is wasted energy.

That is a very well thought out and insightful analysis, Trey. I agree completely.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:12 pm

Your defensive coaching knowledge and player evaluation skills far exceed those of Greg Blache and the other defensive coaches... right?

The same Greg Blache that had 240 pound Jason Taylor playing as an every-down LDE.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:44 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Your defensive coaching knowledge and player evaluation skills far exceed those of Greg Blache and the other defensive coaches... right?

The same Greg Blache that had 240 pound Jason Taylor playing as an every-down LDE.

Or the Greg Blache who took a team with no capacity to rush a passer, yet still put together one of the top defenses in the league... The man isn't perfect... but he still knows his stuff.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:00 pm

Countertrey wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Your defensive coaching knowledge and player evaluation skills far exceed those of Greg Blache and the other defensive coaches... right?

The same Greg Blache that had 240 pound Jason Taylor playing as an every-down LDE.

Or the Greg Blache who took a team with no capacity to rush a passer, yet still put together one of the top defenses in the league... The man isn't perfect... but he still knows his stuff.

I agree that he knows his stuff. He is solid coach, but even the best coaches make mistakes. And imo he is making a mistake with the Orakpo SAM experiment. Although I guess he is sort of being forced into taking this route since we don't really have a viable every-down solution for the position.

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SI's Ross Tucker: Skins Had One of the Worst Off-Seasons

SI's Ross Tucker: Skins Had One of the Worst Off-Seasons

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