Starting KR/PR

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Opening day projections for starters at KR & PR; No Randle El please.

I like Santanna @ PR. & Rock or Devin T. @ KR

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:19 pm

I think PR will be that guy we got from the CFL. If Rock makes the team, he will remain at KR.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:31 pm

Deadskins wrote:I think PR will be that guy we got from the CFL. If Rock makes the team, he will remain at KR.

Moss won't be PR for the same old good but regrettable reason. It would be a little nuts to remove Rock from KR. Let at the stats. He rarely fumbles and gets us to the thirty by his knack for finding holes.

MDSKINSFAN · Post by **MDSKINSFAN** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:39 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:I think PR will be that guy we got from the CFL. If Rock makes the team, he will remain at KR.

Moss won't be PR for the same old good but regrettable reason. It would be a little nuts to remove Rock from KR. Let at the stats. He rarely fumbles and gets us to the thirty by his knack for finding holes.

Agreed. Rock will be the guy returning kicks. As for punts, I don't really care who it is as long as he can hang on to the ball and he isn't ARE. I would like to see Devin Thomas, it would be a great way for him to contribute. Santana would only be the PR in close games and if we need a game breaker like he was in the Detroit game and the other game he returned a pretty long one.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:43 pm

Rock is not a gamebreaker. We can use his slot for whoever returns kicks and can be standout on ST coverage duties as well.

PR should be Moss. He's dangerous and he's successful. You play to win and he's our best cahnce back there.

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:00 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:Rock is not a gamebreaker. We can use his slot for whoever returns kicks and can be standout on ST coverage duties as well.

PR should be Moss. He's dangerous and he's successful. You play to win and he's our best cahnce back there.

Using Moss back there makes me worry about injuries. He was really good in the few he returned last year. The should definitely use him in big games the way they used to play Darrell Green. Of course, he got injured in that playoff game against the Bears.

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:34 pm

I pick Aldredge as our return man. He is probably the fastest most agile player on the team.

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:33 am

I pick Aldredge as our return man. He is probably the fastest most agile player on the team.

Speed/Agility alone does not a great return man make; most of all I think it takes courage, fearlessness and aggressiveness, then vision speed and agility...all those attributes factored in Santanna is our best option, risking injury is a risk we have to take when we're an 8-8 ball club.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:30 am

SnyderSucks wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:Rock is not a gamebreaker. We can use his slot for whoever returns kicks and can be standout on ST coverage duties as well.

PR should be Moss. He's dangerous and he's successful. You play to win and he's our best cahnce back there.

Using Moss back there makes me worry about injuries. He was really good in the few he returned last year. The should definitely use him in big games the way they used to play Darrell Green. Of course, he got injured in that playoff game against the Bears.

Every game is a big game. Every game counts. You play every game to win. If you don't have that mentality, then you're destined for mediocrity. Didn't the Rams and the Bengals teach anything last year?

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:57 am

While the chances that both will make the team are slim, I believe Alridge or Dorsey will see time at KR, and maybe even PR. Moss has proven to be a very good PR, but I don't think he should be used at PR on a full time basis. Zorn has recently said that Alridge has flat out speed, which would also make him valuable as a RB in certain situations. Zorn said Dorsey doesn't quite have Alridge's speed, but has the elusiveness at PR and has an incredible and impressive resume from the CFL at KR/PR. I give the edge to Alridge however, primarily due to his speed and versatility.

SnyderSucks · Post by **SnyderSucks** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:52 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:Rock is not a gamebreaker. We can use his slot for whoever returns kicks and can be standout on ST coverage duties as well.

PR should be Moss. He's dangerous and he's successful. You play to win and he's our best cahnce back there.

Using Moss back there makes me worry about injuries. He was really good in the few he returned last year. The should definitely use him in big games the way they used to play Darrell Green. Of course, he got injured in that playoff game against the Bears.

Every game is a big game. Every game counts. You play every game to win. If you don't have that mentality, then you're destined for mediocrity. Didn't the Rams and the Bengals teach anything last year?

My point is that using Moss there full time risks him getting injured. Losing him on offense would be a huge blow, so you limit his exposure to injury. He's over 30 with a history of hamstring problems. Play him at punt returner and he might get 3 touchdowns in a season. Lose him on offense, and the offense might get 3 touchdowns a season...how bad would the offense be without Moss? 10 in the box against the run?

And not all games are equal. Division games are more important than conference games. Conference games are more important than games against the AFC. Playoff games are more important than regular season. You think the Patriots/Colts game each year isn't more important to those teams? Of course it is, because the Colts couldn't beat the Patriots for years and it was a mental block they had to get past in order to win a Super Bowl. You think the Giants game that they lost to the Patriots, but just barely, when the Giants won the Super Bowl wasn't bigger than the others? It gave them the confidence that they could beat anyone. Losing against the Rams and Bengals is not acceptable, but not all games are equal.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:07 am

SkinsFreak wrote:While the chances that both will make the team are slim, I believe Alridge or Dorsey will see time at KR, and maybe even PR. Moss has proven to be a very good PR, but I don't think he should be used at PR on a full time basis. Zorn has recently said that Alridge has flat out speed, which would also make him valuable as a RB in certain situations. Zorn said Dorsey doesn't quite have Alridge's speed, but has the elusiveness at PR and has an incredible and impressive resume from the CFL at KR/PR. I give the edge to Alridge however, primarily due to his speed and versatility.

Yeah Dorsey, that's his name. He's who I picked at PR. If Rock makes the cut this year, he will continue to be our KR.

fastwb · Post by **fastwb** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:33 am

Rock has some competition this year for sure but don't count him out. He may not have gamebreaking speed but he is a hard-nosed up field returner who consistently puts the Offense in good and occasionally great field position. He was not part of the problem last year and should benefit from the rule changes on kick-offs this year. He is also a proven back-up for Portis and Betts. His last edge is his ability to COVER kicks-something which he has steadily improved on in recent years.

Anthony Alridge and Dominique Dorsey bring very similar skills to this competition. Both are good open field runners who can catch the ball out of the backfield. Everyone loves Alridge's speed but Dorsey brings a proven ability to run back kicks. My concern with Alridge is if he's so great why didn't Denver keep him? A wild card in the mix here is Marcus Mason, back this year after spending some time with baltimore last season. He knows that he has to make an impact on special teams in order to have a shot at a roster spot so it will be interesting to see what he can do.

From an effectiveness standpoint we would all love to see Moss returning punts but we wanted to see Darrell Green back there all the time too so we know that's not going to happen. Where's Mike Nelms when you need him? I haven't seen anything much on who they are even considering as a punt returner.

I'd like to see what Dorsey could do back there. If he can make something happen then pairing him with Rock on KO's could be very productive as well as offer up a new type of weapon for Zorn on Offense.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:04 pm

From Matt Terl's Blog on Redskins.com wrote:I've talked a fair bit about Anthony Alridge (pictured above) and Dominique Dorsey, the two small fast guys who were brought in this offseason, and about the general speculation that they're being groomed as Darren-Sproles-lite change-of-pace backs and potential kick returners.

In watching them over the last few days at practice, the speed is obvious in both cases. Alridge is more of a blazing speed guy, whereas Dorsey is more elusive, and more inclined to use his small size to his advantage. Or, as Coach Zorn put it when I asked him yesterday, "Alridge is FAST, Dorsey has got some great wiggle to him."

"They both are learning our offense," he continued. "I think they're uncomfortable from the standpoint of... I think there are some startup costs there. But they really do have some talent."

Alridge has lined up at wide receiver, running back, and kick returner, and I asked him about it after practice today. "More I can do, the better chance I have," he said. I asked if there was anyone he compared his game to, and he gave the obvious answer: "Maybe Darren Sproles. A guy that's small in stature but makes big plays. I feel like I can be a person that makes big plays."

Now it's just a question of developing other parts of his game. "Coach Zorn told me that he wants me to be a person that can pick up blocks and do the inside runs just as well as I do the outside runs," he said. "He don't want the defense to think that every time I come in, we're running to the outside."

The somewhat forgotten man in this whole discussion is incumbent kick returner Rock Cartwright. Cartwright has looked a bit faster than I recalled in training camp, so I thought it would be worth asking him about that, and about the threat from the two new speedsters.

"I trimmed down a little," he said, when I asked about any new speed burst. "I'm gonna continue to trim down, get to maybe 195, 200. Right now I'm about 205, so maybe lose five or six more pounds."

Part of the reason for the emphasis on speed would seem to be the changes to the kick return rules, which may make kick returns more like punt returns. "That's yet to be seen," Cartwright said. "That's why I think I have to get more explosive, more elusive. It's gonna be different for awhile."

In the end, though, it always comes down to the same thing: "All I can do is go out there and work hard, be all that I can be, and try to contribute on special teams," Cartwright said, when I asked about Alridge and Dorsey. "Guys know what I'm capable of doing, and I've shown year after year that I'm capable of being here and capable of playing at this level. So it's not up to me, I'm just gonna go out and do what I can do."

Or you might recall Vinny Cerrato, on his late March radio appearance, discussing Alridge's speed thusly:

We also got a guy that Denver cut, Anthony Alridge, who the year before from the University of Houston, at the combine ran 4.34, at his personal workout ran a 4.22 and he is a third down guy. I talked to Mike Shanahan about him. When he got cut, when he was on the wire, I called him and said Mike, what do you think about this guy. He said, get him. He said he is the fastest guy I have ever seen on the field with the ball in his hands.

Alridge's speed is on display here. In the last video at the bottom of the page, Dorsey couldn't even catch Alridge.

fastwb · Post by **fastwb** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:34 pm

I do recall that soundbite from Vinny about Alridge now. As to the 40 times, anything under 4.4 qualifies as blazing. To clarify for Skins fans, that puts him right there with Darrell Green back when he was winning the NFL's fastest man competition every year. Man, I miss that. Wish they would bring it back.

The most impressive part about that soundbite was Vinny qouting Shanahan as saying Alridge was the "fastest guy I have ever seen on the field with the ball in his hands." Being fast is fine, but being fast in pads with the ball in your hand is where it counts.

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:53 pm

How bad would the offense be without Moss? 10 in the box against the run?

This speaks to our issues at QB. Last season's collapse had alot to do with pressure on Jason and Jason's inability to respond; take the Baltimore game, that's a game where leadership from the QB was called for and never came. I understand our o-line was being manhandled but in this league the QB has to improvise when things break down. That's why a guy like Vince Young is more dangerous than Jason Campbell because he's elusive, and if your not elusive you better be able to make quick make that lightning fast reads. Our QB has to make people pay for loading up in the box, no matter who is at WR.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:15 pm

Gibbs4Life wrote:
How bad would the offense be without Moss? 10 in the box against the run?

This speaks to our issues at QB. Last season's collapse had alot to do with pressure on Jason and Jason's inability to respond; take the Baltimore game, that's a game where leadership from the QB was called for and never came. I understand our o-line was being manhandled but in this league the QB has to improvise when things break down. That's why a guy like Vince Young is more dangerous than Jason Campbell because he's elusive, and if your not elusive you better be able to make quick make that lightning fast reads. Our QB has to make people pay for loading up in the box, no matter who is at WR.

A valid point, I just don't think Vince Young is a good example. Maybe back in college. :roll:

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:29 pm

Gibbs4Life wrote:
I pick Aldredge as our return man. He is probably the fastest most agile player on the team.

Speed/Agility alone does not a great return man make; most of all I think it takes courage, fearlessness and aggressiveness, then vision speed and agility...all those attributes factored in Santanna is our best option, risking injury is a risk we have to take when we're an 8-8 ball club.

Not alone, but they do help. He had enough success in college as a return man to make me optimistic.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:05 pm

SnyderSucks wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
SnyderSucks wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:Rock is not a gamebreaker. We can use his slot for whoever returns kicks and can be standout on ST coverage duties as well.

PR should be Moss. He's dangerous and he's successful. You play to win and he's our best cahnce back there.

Using Moss back there makes me worry about injuries. He was really good in the few he returned last year. The should definitely use him in big games the way they used to play Darrell Green. Of course, he got injured in that playoff game against the Bears.

Every game is a big game. Every game counts. You play every game to win. If you don't have that mentality, then you're destined for mediocrity. Didn't the Rams and the Bengals teach anything last year?

My point is that using Moss there full time risks him getting injured. Losing him on offense would be a huge blow, so you limit his exposure to injury. He's over 30 with a history of hamstring problems. Play him at punt returner and he might get 3 touchdowns in a season. Lose him on offense, and the offense might get 3 touchdowns a season...how bad would the offense be without Moss? 10 in the box against the run?

And not all games are equal. Division games are more important than conference games. Conference games are more important than games against the AFC. Playoff games are more important than regular season. You think the Patriots/Colts game each year isn't more important to those teams? Of course it is, because the Colts couldn't beat the Patriots for years and it was a mental block they had to get past in order to win a Super Bowl. You think the Giants game that they lost to the Patriots, but just barely, when the Giants won the Super Bowl wasn't bigger than the others? It gave them the confidence that they could beat anyone. Losing against the Rams and Bengals is not acceptable, but not all games are equal.

Thank you for patronizing me. I do realize how the tie-breakers go. <pop> now we can move on. Bottom line is that whoever wins the most games goes to the playoffs. You play EACH and EVERY game to win. Yes, division games do mean something, but that number next to the 'W' is the first tie breaker. You play to win. We didn't play the rams to win and what happened?

...and please quote where I said all games are equal.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:35 pm

Even though Moss is a dangerous return man, I don't think it's worth the injury risk when there is probably not that big a drop-off to go with either Alridge or Dorsey. Anyway, I just want a PR who will run immediately upfield and not dance around like ARE.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:38 pm

Deadskins wrote:Even though Moss is a dangerous return man, I don't think it's worth the injury risk when there is probably not that big a drop-off to go with either Alridge or Dorsey.

Seriously? I can agree with the injury risk part, however, I'd love to know how you came to the conclusion that the drop off from Moss to Alridge/Dorsey is not that big.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:53 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Even though Moss is a dangerous return man, I don't think it's worth the injury risk when there is probably not that big a drop-off to go with either Alridge or Dorsey.

Seriously? I can agree with the injury risk part, however, I'd love to know how you came to the conclusion that the drop off from Moss to Alridge/Dorsey is not that big.

Well... flat out speed and elusiveness is one aspect. But just because you fail understand or recognize something, I don't think it's always fair for others to have to endlessly provide the research to educate you on a particular subject. If you simply research Dorsey's and Alridge's history, you might gain a better understanding of Deadskins thought process. I happen to agree with Deadskins, and it's supported by the reasons for signing Dorsey and Alridge in the first place... to acquire and add a needed dynamic to the position and better the overall competition to the return game.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:52 pm

If you simply research Dorsey's and Alridge's history, you might gain a better understanding of Deadskins thought process. I happen to agree with Deadskins, and it's supported by the reasons for signing Dorsey and Alridge in the first place... to acquire and add a needed dynamic to the position and better the overall competition to the return game.

Oh right. I completely forgot about their vast and successful history of producing as punt returners in the NFL. :roll:

To say that two undrafted players with no real NFL experience are not a big step down from Moss in terms of punt return abilities is a joke.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:08 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
If you simply research Dorsey's and Alridge's history, you might gain a better understanding of Deadskins thought process. I happen to agree with Deadskins, and it's supported by the reasons for signing Dorsey and Alridge in the first place... to acquire and add a needed dynamic to the position and better the overall competition to the return game.

Oh right. I completely forgot about their vast and successful history of producing as punt returners in the NFL. To say that two undrafted players with no real NFL experience are not a big step down from Moss in terms of punt return abilities is a joke.

First off, Dorsey may be an NFL rookie, but he was a star PR in the CFL, so he is certainly not inexperienced, nor is there no history from which to draw on.

In 2008, Dorsey was named a CFL All-Star on special teams and awarded the John Agro Special Teams Award as the league's most outstanding special teams player.[2] Dorsey finished the year with a league high 2,892 all-purpose yards despite missing five games due to injury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Dorsey

And Alridge was a standout college return man who has been very impressive, according to the coaches, during OTAs and minicamp.

So I don't think you can describe my assertion that the drop-off would not be huge from Moss to either as a "joke." But then again, you are prone to hyperbole... :roll:

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:24 pm

And Alridge was a standout college return man who has been very impressive, according to the coaches, during OTAs and minicamp.

So I don't think you can describe my assertion that the drop-off would not be huge from Moss to either as a "joke." But then again, you are prone to hyperbole... Rolling Eyes

Come on. You're comparing success in Conference USA and in the CFL to a guy that is a very dangerous NFL return man.