Feelings on the RT spot

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:28 pm

I guess for myself, I can't help but feel as though the RT position has tainted futures all across the team. See if you agree with me-

Jansen/Heyer can't block, so a potential downfield threat, i.e. Cool

ey must stay in to help. This is for everyday DE's. Then you run into Kerney in the playoffs, or Tuck in the crucial minutes of fourth quarter. The RT is why the DB's run miles every game. Jason Campbell doesn't get the time to find the downfield threats, depleted of Cool

ey, leading to more press coverage, shorter windows and ultimately- Punts. Then when it matters most, Kerney bench presses Heyer across the pocket and we all go home for months. Millions of us. Many months.

It feels like this undoubtedly, to the defensive players. The offense is stuck in a mode where the plays all consist of short, surefire calls for 3-6 yards. It's a game we can't win. The offense is trying to get 25 plays consecutively in order to score a touchdown, not 10 or 15. Sometimes, we complete three passes short of 10yds and punt. I just can't tell if it frustrates me or the D more.

The two people affected most are in the position of fighting for their jobs now. Jason Campbell, Jim Zorn. Campbell is in the last year of his contract and in addition to the unreal pressure in the pocket he now must stress about how the results of this year will define him forever. Zorn is being asked to "make it work" as a QB mentor when the blocking unit is fundamentally flawed in age and depth. This offseason, Snyder spent over $150,000,000 and the first four draft picks to boost a #4 ranked defense. I don't know off the top of my head what the offense was ranked, but replacing our best OG with a more expensive OG and drafting a WR, TE, and FB after the fifth round does not feel like a commitment to improvement. Nor does it a commitment to those two.

Maybe SnyderCerrato found a franchise saviour in RT Mike Williams and this year Campbell will get pocket time like Romo. They sure sound confident. I wouldn't say I'm doubtful, but if he really is 410 right now and trying to get to playing weight, you'll recognize me as the guy with the Mike Williams pro-bowl jersey at the stadium.

or maybe you won't

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:32 pm

This isn't even worthy of being posted in Hog Wash, it's just nonsense.

The Redskins picked Orakpo over Oher (rightly IMO) and they didn't see any other linemen at their pick they thought were worth going out of their way for. No one is coutning on Mike Williams to be the savior, or even play a down next season. Bugel likes Jansen, Heyer and Devin Clark a lot and feels comfortable with the guys he has. Randy Thomas is healthy this season, that is going to help the RT and the C and we'll see improved line play. Everyone is healthy and on our list of problems going into the draft offensive line was 3rd.

D-Line
Linebackers
O-Line

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:36 pm

Do you feel comfortable with the guys we have? I understand your opinion but even though I think we had a great draft I think either the free agency money or some early draft picks should have gone to making the Oline better and younger. Just my opinion

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:39 pm

They spent a lot of money on Dockery who knows most of the current line, stays in contact with them, knows the running system. That is a significant upgrade.

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:40 pm

Please don't move my post, everytime I get moved or deleted I feel like I'm getting sent to the kids table

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:41 pm

I don't have the power to do that, but I feel the same way when it happens to me.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:42 pm

Then don't post comments that belong at the kids' table. :wink:

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:44 pm

the Dockery signing feels to me to just be the right situation because of his past, but sort of like the Jason Taylor move which sort of had to be done because it made so much sense. Dock gave up alot of sacks last year, but Peters gave up more so I don't know what to take out of that. I just get frustrated, y'know. I'll be watching the game when we're losing and I can't help but think it's a philosophy problem that plagues us every single year. We never upgrade the lunchpale positions.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:47 pm

Oh well, one last time. There is nothing complaining will do about it. We have what we have. There is good news though. Most of our line even being one year older is coming in here in better shape than last year. Also, people get cut there still might be a chance to upgrade for us.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:00 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:This isn't even worthy of being posted in Hog Wash, it's just nonsense.

BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:Please don't move my post, everytime I get moved or deleted I feel like I'm getting sent to the kids table

Skinsfan55 wrote:I don't have the power to do that, but I feel the same way when it happens to me.

A few things, just as a matter of housekeeping:

(1) We're not asking anyone to be perfect, just use your best judgment to determine whether or not a topic really deserves its own thread.

(2) When mods move / merge something (nothing is ever deleted, aside from spam or posts that contain nothing but profanity), they are doing their best to facilitate conversation on the board. Please do not take it personally.

(3) There's no reason why BurgundyandGoldfaith shouldn't have posted this in Hogwash. It's a new topic, it doesn't belong in another thread, and there's obviously something to say about it.

With all of that said, carry on. . .

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:07 pm

This is being discussed elsewhere, but I'm not a mod so here it is to stay.

I don't see the big deal with the line, like I said elsewhere going into the draft OT was probably 3rd or even 4th on the list:
DE
LB
OL
SS

We addressed the line in general with the upgrade of Dockery over Kendall and the health of everyone coming back is improved. We even have a couple prospects like Rinehart, Heyer and Clark who are respected by the coaching staff and potential contributors in 2009.

If it was me though, I might have been tempted to go after Jordan Gross instead of Haynesworth (and saved some dough) but the Redskins saw a potential long term superstar who could be incredibly disruptive on the line... couple him with Orakpo and it looks like we made the right decision after all.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:43 pm

BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote: Dock gave up alot of sacks last year, but Peters gave up more so I don't know what to take out of that.

To me, like I said about JC, QBs often are the cause of a sack and not the victim!!!!!!

The Bills QB probably created most of those sacks! Certain QBs get sack more often then others.

Mike Vick was always near he worst in the league for sacks. Then Ryan comes in and he is hardly ever sacked.

Zorn working w/JC on how to properly read a D, check to a better play, and get rid of the ball on time, will help our OL get better at protecting the QB than signing a new player.

The OL was no where near as bad as people around here make it out to be. But at some point and time this team must start drafting OL high in the draft. However, this past weekend wasn't the right time! All of the guys worthy of taking that high were already one when we drafted at 13.

I agree to some extent with SF55 on this.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:01 pm

No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:16 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:They spent a lot of money on Dockery who knows most of the current line, stays in contact with them, knows the running system. That is a significant upgrade.

Dockery allowed eight sacks last season. Thomas has bolts in his neck, and Jansen needed replacing even before he was injured last year. Casey has become below average for the NFL.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:20 pm

brad7686 wrote:No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

Just curious, when was the last time you actually sat down and watched a Redskins game, Brad?

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:23 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:They spent a lot of money on Dockery who knows most of the current line, stays in contact with them, knows the running system. That is a significant upgrade.

Dockery allowed eight sacks last season. Thomas has bolts in his neck, and Jansen needed replacing even before he was injured last year. Casey has become below average for the NFL.

A little unfair for Casey. If you are playing next to Pete and a hurting Thomas and still holding your own against tackles in the NFL that are way bigger....I think Casey is still real good. I just hope we can find a good back up. If we can upgrade from Casey I'm not against it one bit.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:28 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

Just curious, when was the last time you actually sat down and watched a Redskins game, Brad?

I watch every one, and pass pro is embarrassing. Especially on the right side. We lost a playoff game because of Patrick Kerney. We looked pathetic against the pats because heyer let vrabel hit campbell unblocked 3 or more times. The steelers game last year, I don't even have to expand on that.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:33 pm

brad7686 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

Just curious, when was the last time you actually sat down and watched a Redskins game, Brad?

I watch every one, and pass pro is embarrassing. Especially on the right side. We lost a playoff game because of Patrick Kerney. We looked pathetic against the pats because heyer let vrabel hit campbell unblocked 3 or more times. The steelers game last year, I don't even have to expand on that.

Sooooo... you haven't watched a Redskins game in months, right? Haven't seen a game since the day it aired live? Haven't sat down and re-watched the games looking more closely at key positions or the team in certain circumstances?

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:36 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

Just curious, when was the last time you actually sat down and watched a Redskins game, Brad?

I watch every one, and pass pro is embarrassing. Especially on the right side. We lost a playoff game because of Patrick Kerney. We looked pathetic against the pats because heyer let vrabel hit campbell unblocked 3 or more times. The steelers game last year, I don't even have to expand on that.

Sooooo... you haven't watched a Redskins game in months, right? Haven't seen a game since the day it aired live? Haven't sat down and re-watched the games looking more closely at key positions or the team in certain circumstances?

No, I would be pleasantly surprised if things had changed in that time. I don't feel thats the case, but you never know.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:39 pm

brad7686 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

Just curious, when was the last time you actually sat down and watched a Redskins game, Brad?

I watch every one, and pass pro is embarrassing. Especially on the right side. We lost a playoff game because of Patrick Kerney. We looked pathetic against the pats because heyer let vrabel hit campbell unblocked 3 or more times. The steelers game last year, I don't even have to expand on that.

Sooooo... you haven't watched a Redskins game in months, right? Haven't seen a game since the day it aired live? Haven't sat down and re-watched the games looking more closely at key positions or the team in certain circumstances?

No, I would be pleasantly surprised if things had changed in that time. I don't feel thats the case, but you never know.

Well, I tape the games and watch them almost regularly. My point is, I believe the only time some folks watch the games is live with friends and a few adult beverages, and they get short and long term memory loss because of it. If you actually sit down, re-watch these games and examine them more closely, the team isn't near as bad as some are asserting.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:03 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:No, right tackle is horrible. Anyone who says otherwise has not watched us play teams with good pass rushes since Jansen became unusable.

Just curious, when was the last time you actually sat down and watched a Redskins game, Brad?

I watch every one, and pass pro is embarrassing. Especially on the right side. We lost a playoff game because of Patrick Kerney. We looked pathetic against the pats because heyer let vrabel hit campbell unblocked 3 or more times. The steelers game last year, I don't even have to expand on that.

Sooooo... you haven't watched a Redskins game in months, right? Haven't seen a game since the day it aired live? Haven't sat down and re-watched the games looking more closely at key positions or the team in certain circumstances?

No, I would be pleasantly surprised if things had changed in that time. I don't feel thats the case, but you never know.

Well, I tape the games and watch them almost regularly. My point is, I believe the only time some folks watch the games is live with friends and a few adult beverages, and they get short and long term memory loss because of it. If you actually sit down, re-watch these games and examine them more closely, the team isn't near as bad as some are asserting.

I can agree with that. But if the team plans to have any success in the future they have to learn to pass block better, and get better personnel if need be.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:34 am

I have said this before. I will say it again. I think Jansen and Thomas will bounce back strong this year. Yes they have been injured in the past. But, when healthy both Jansen and Thomas have been great blockers. One bad year last year. In which Jansen was coming off of a major injury. Thomas was coming off of an injury and played with an injury in another area.

Alot of people bashing Jansen. I knew there was something going on with the line. As we found out later Thomas was playing with a serious neck condition. Which at anytime could have paralyzed him. The center position was never that strong to begin with either.

So we have Jansen coming back from injury. A weak center. A right guard coming back from an injury and playing with an injury. Couple that with hesitant Jason Campbell and you get plenty of sacks.

They will bounce back strong next year. Jansen has been working hard in the weight room. We picked up Dockery. Which is now looking like a very good move this off season. Heyer will see plenty of time on the field. I hope Rineheart gets in there as well. Thomas has reported he is lifting more then he ever has. Things look good as far as the offensive line goes. Also we picked up potential help in Mike Williams.

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:29 am

Personally, I feel like Jansen has been overmatched on a weekly basis for about three years now. I can't completely rule out Heyer because the man has veryvery long arms and good size, he's just young and lacks stoutness. I hope someone gets cut to at least provide some competition.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:46 am

BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:he's just young and lacks stoutness. I hope someone gets cut to at least provide some competition.

Maybe he needs a few of these

norskinsfan · Post by **norskinsfan** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:11 am

Some football fans are to analytical about thing and don't know squat about football or running a football team (just like some owners).
During a draft most teams have boards and rate the players on talent not need. You have to be drunk to take Oher over orakpo. Ohers is talented but has some issues with motivation and consistence. I think Joe Bugel saw some positives in his OL and thinks he has enough to work with. Here are some positive senarios that could play out in training camp.

Jansen revert to form and kick ass

Heyer developes more strength and becomes a factor in the run game

Clark and /or rhinehart developes