Eagles near a deal for Peters, Giants close on Edwards

[SkinsFreak]

Are you saying Andrews, Peters and Schobel are not an udgrade to Thomas Runyan and Smith??

Where did I say that? I said they needed to make these moves due to the starters that they lost.

They didn't lose a starting back??

Umm... what?

Yes... they did. My friend who is a huge Philly fan was pissed when he found out they parted ways with Buckhalter.

[PulpExposure]

The Eagles on the other hand have drafted well. They have also been pretty stingy with who they give money to. Just this off season there was talk of Mcnabb being traded. There franchise QB. But, they rectified the situation and resigned Mcnabb.

They didn't resign McNabb, they just didn't trade him. He's still under contract until after the 2010 season.

The trade for Peters, just considering the draft picks, is a very good trade for the Eagles. The kicker is the fact that Peters is getting a seriously monstrous contract, for a guy who didn't play all that well for them last year (but was great for them in 2007). Yes, yes, I know he was in the Pro Bowl, but we all know that doesn't mean a whole lot (see London Fletcher, zero pro bowls).

The big issue with the Eagles is that they lost the heart and soul of their team in the offseason. Dawkins was getting older, but his play elevated immensely for them at the end of the year last year (coincidentally when their defense started playing better), and more importantly, has shown great leadership for that team.

It may be possible to replace his play on the field; it will be impossible for the Eagles to replace his leadership. It's a big loss.

I still think that on field performance, Buckhalter is in the running for the largest loss for the Eagles. He may not be a starters, but he is crucial to their success.

He was good for them last year, but he's been completely undependable over his career (lots and lots of injuries). He's replaceable, really. If they actually draft a RB with any size, which they apparently hate doing.

Westbrook needs someone to spell him. Buckhalter did that well.

Right...which is why I said...he's replaceable if they draft a bigger RB...

Are you saying Andrews, Peters and Schobel are not an udgrade to Thomas Runyan and Smith??

Peters certainly is. I don't think Andrews and Schobel are, though. Smith was inconsistent, and got injured recently, but had a lot of potential to be very good simply because he was a pretty fast TE and had good receiving skills. Schobel isn't the starter, it'll be Brent Celek, and Celek is not the same player Smith was. He lacks Smith's explosion in the passing game.

And Andrews is a distinctly average player. I think they lose something with him as opposed to Runyan (most notably with run blocking), but they gain youth. More importantly, he's the brother of their depressed other Andrews so they may gain some stability from him.

All in all, Peters is a clear upgrade, and I think the others are downgrades. But younger, and in the case of Celek, cheaper.

[DEHog]

Yes... they did. My friend who is a huge Philly fan was pissed when he found out they parted ways with Buckhalter.

Doesn't mean he was a starter..
76 carries for 369 yards is hardly starter numbers...and he 30 very old by RB standards. The Eagles are one of the better IMO at knowing it's better to get rid of a player a year early than a year too late.

[SkinsFreak]

Yes... they did. My friend who is a huge Philly fan was pissed when he found out they parted ways with Buckhalter.

Doesn't mean he was a starter..
76 carries for 369 yards is hardly starter numbers...and he 30 very old by RB standards.

Well... if you want to argue over the term "starter"...

Even though Westbrook is the primary guy, Buckhalter was spelling Westbrook in just about every game. The RB position is unique in that there is a rotation employed. So in my mind, maybe not yours, regardless of what a program line-up would say, the two RB's that play in every game are considered starters. I know what you're going to say however... the program lists Westbrook as the starter due to an 11-man offensive line-up... I get that and is not what I'm referring to.

Most teams these days, including the Eagles, use two RB's. Buckhalter played in 14 games last year and also had 324 receiving yards. Starter... speller... whatever... they lost an important piece of their offense. Most Philly fans would tell you that. Nevertheless, if they draft a guy like Chris Wells, they should be okay.

The point I was making was that they lost quite a few players this year and have holes to fill. And with the exception of Peters, they've yet to actually upgrade any of those positions. Additionally, they still can't get McNabb a receiver. I don't really care if Buckhalter is dubbed a starter or not, that's not the point.

And no matter how great you claim they are, we still swept them last year. I know where they went in the playoffs last season, but with regard to that one divisional opponent, the record still stands that the Skins swept them and could do it again. I'm not fretting over the signing of Peters.

[DEHog]

Well... if you want to argue over the term "starter"...

Your term not mind

Even though Westbrook is the primary guy, Buckhalter was spelling Westbrook in just about every game. The RB position is unique in that there is a rotation employed. So in my mind, maybe not yours, regardless of what a program line-up would say, the two RB's that play in every game are considered starters. I know what you're going to say however... the program lists Westbrook as the starter due to an 11-man offensive line-up... I get that and is not what I'm referring to.

Most teams these days, including the Eagles, use two RB's. Buckhalter played in 14 games last year and also had 324 receiving yards. Starter... speller... whatever... they lost an important piece of their offense. Most Philly fans would tell you that.

I get that..you’re right a lot of team do employ a two back system….IMO the Eagles aren’t one of them…I’d give you…
William and Stewart
McGahee and Mclain
White and Johnson
Jacobs and Ward
Williams and Brown
James and Hightower
I guess I look at like this I will give a guy credit as a starter if they play him regularly (like evry third down) not to spell a guy/ Would you say Betts is a starter?? I don't think the Eagles would have let him go if they felt he was the starter you say.

The point I was making was that they lost quite a few players this year and have holes to fill. And with the exception of Peters, they've yet to actually upgrade any of those positions. Additionally, they still can't get McNabb a receiver. I don't really care if Buckhalter is dubbed a starter or not, that's not the point.

Well I ask if you’re saying that Peters, Andrews and Schoble weren’t upgrades
And you said..

Where did I say that? I said they needed to make these moves due to the starters that they lost.

So I assume now you are saying they aren’t???



And no matter how great you claim they are, we still swept them last year. I know where they went in the playoffs last season, but with regard to that one divisional opponent, the record still stands that the Skins swept them and could do it again. I'm not fretting over the signing of Peters.

And... we could be left out of the playoffs again while they play for another shot in the SB.

WOuld you rather sweep the Eagles or go to the playoffs???

[SkinsFreak]

Dude, come on... Westbrook is a great player, but he is not an every down RB. He's small and is better suited on the edge or on swing passes or screens. He doesn't have the size or durability to pound it up the middle, which is why Philly uses two RB's.

But whatever, you're obviously missing my intended point, DEHog. Again, and for the last time, they've lost quite a few pieces this offseason and have yet to upgrade them save for one. But it's cool man...

[VetSkinsFan]

WOuld you rather sweep the Eagles or go to the playoffs???

Playoffs. It doesn't matter which teams you beat the first 17 weeks once you get into sudden death.

[DEHog]

Dude, come on... Westbrook is a great player, but he is not an every down RB. He's small and is better suited on the edge or on swing passes or screens. He doesn't have the size or durability to pound it up the middle, which is why Philly uses two RB's.

But whatever, you're obviously missing my intended point, DEHog. Again, and for the last time, they've lost quite a few pieces this offseason and have yet to upgrade them save for one. But it's cool man...

Well if you would stick to one point maybe I'd get?? One minute you’re saying you didn’t say it wasn’t an upgrade… the next you’re saying they didn’t upgrade. I think you tried (very poorly) to spin what the Eagles have done. You’re right Westbrook isn’t an every down back…but Reid has been playing him that way. He now sees the need to have a two back system so why would they let Buckhalter go?? Could it be that they intend on addressing is in the draft or FA or that he wanted to much, got a better offer from Denver???? Every wants to compare it to the Skins and yes if the Skins had made this trade they’d get killed in the media but why…because they have a history of bad FO moves they don’t have two picks like the Eagles, the Eagles don’t live close to the cap and they have been winning. The truth hurts sometimes…and the truth is the Eagles are run very well. Losing Dawkins hurts but how many years does he have left?? I’m sure the Eagles wanted him back but this being his last contract he wanted longer terms…can’t fault either side. IMO the Eagle have done a much better job than the Skins addressing their needs. We'll just agree to disagree

[SkinsJock]

The great thing about this time of year is that each & every team has the same chance at getting to the Super Bowl.

I still hope & think we are going to be better each year but for some reason, this year, I just think we are going to be better but we are certainly not going to be good enough to get into the playoffs, and if we are good enough it will most likely be because we got a little "lucky" and not because we are a team that "belongs" in the playoffs.

I am looking forward to having this Redskins' team be a consistent playoff team and that will most likely take at least another year and maybe 2

Anyone who thinks we are not only a playoff team but have any chance at winning the NFC East is just kidding themselves.

Unfortunately we are just a good football team but we are not good enough - we should aspire to be a lot better than we are.

While some feel we have improved since the Jack Kent Cooke days - that level of accomplishment still only means we are just a mediocre team and that is where we belong with the current way we manage this team

So while the eagles, the giants and the pukes are fighting it out for the NFC East we will be trying to win 8 games this season - not a pretty picture

[SkinsFreak]

Well if you would stick to one point maybe I'd get?? One minute you’re saying you didn’t say it wasn’t an upgrade… the next you’re saying they didn’t upgrade.

In my initial post, I didn't say anything, either way, about the recently signed players being upgrades or not being upgrades. YOU responded with "Are you saying Andrews, Peters and Schobel are not an udgrade to Thomas Runyan and Smith??" To which I replied... "Where did I say that? I said they needed to make these moves due to the starters that they lost." Meaning... I didn't "grade" the moves either way in my initial post, but simply said they needed to make moves. I later agreed with Pulp that Peters appears to be the only upgrade.

We'll just agree to disagree

All I've said is that they have holes to fill, Westbrook is not an every down back and Peters appears to be the only upgrade signed to date. If you disagree with that... that's cool man. I know they could draft or trade for another player to fill a hole, I merely said they have holes to fill... at this point in time.

[PulpExposure]

Interestingly, apparently Jason Peters gave up the most sacks last year of any LT. 11.5 sacks in 13 games. By comparison, Tra Thomas gave up 2 over 16 games.

[SkinsFreak]

Interestingly, apparently Jason Peters gave up the most sacks last year of any LT. 11.5 sacks in 13 games. By comparison, Tra Thomas gave up 2 over 16 games.

[DEHog]

Interestingly, apparently Jason Peters gave up the most sacks last year of any LT. 11.5 sacks in 13 games. By comparison, Tra Thomas gave up 2 over 16 games.

Not sure who "Balto" is...but I'll play along... here's a breakdown from the Bills website from someone who actually watched the film http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=127203

Guess who he blames in part for Peters sacks allowed

Now that said I think sacks allowed is the most ambiguous stat out there and I would only believe what the team stats show.

[Kilmer72]

Interestingly, apparently Jason Peters gave up the most sacks last year of any LT. 11.5 sacks in 13 games. By comparison, Tra Thomas gave up 2 over 16 games.

I really do not have too much basis for this but I will say it might get even worse...Now he is in the NFC EAST. Lets see and I hope so.

[PulpExposure]

Not sure who "Balto" is...but I'll play along... here's a breakdown from the Bills website from someone who actually watched the film http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=127203

Guess who he blames in part for Peters sacks allowed

Now that said I think sacks allowed is the most ambiguous stat out there and I would only believe what the team stats show.

Yeah, it's totally a subjective stat, and not an official one by any stretch.

Great thread, thanks for the link. Very interesting!

But when you look at even the 5.5 even the guy you linked reduces the number to (which many of the commentators in that thread thought was a very lenient number to give Peters), it's still almost 3x what Tra Thomas gave up last year.

For example:

I still think even though Peters guards someone for a long time he still has to get the credit for the sack, other teams have the same problem so you would have to diagnose every teams sacks. So that would take it to 8.5 by your calculations. I also don't give up the theory that he shouldn't have blocked the safety in the Jets game. He had the safety in front of him, engaged him than got beat outside. The safety was just faster.

Even the 5.5 discounts engaged players that eventually get a sack (which get charged to other players regardless) and the safety blitz he was responsible for which clearly was Peters' responsibility (watch him whiff at him, it's pretty comical). The poster is just really lenient. Another example, this one the poster doesn't give Peters...even though Peters was clearly beated in that play.

The prevailing thought seems to be in that thread:

So Peters wasn't quite as bad as the web stats indicate....but he sure wasn't an elite performer either.

But, at the price point they have him at...which is Haynesworth money, believe it or not (just not guarenteed lol), he'd better be elite. Because he's being paid like it.

[langleyparkjoe]

Hey, I'm in Bethlehem PA now.. I work with Smeagol/Gnats/Stealers fans up here but the talk is really about getting Moreno to the Smeagols, Gnats fans seem more interested in the trade talks for Braylon or Boldin, Stealers fans are like.. screw it, we'll win again.

I told them plainly.. "we're about to get Sanchez and lose some picks in the process, you guys are doomed"..

disclaimer, if we do get sanchez and he does great, i'll gladly eat the crow but STILL i'd rather pick up people we need.. jus fyi since i got off the subject

[SkinsFreak]

Hey, I'm in Bethlehem PA now.. I work with Smeagol/Gnats/Stealers fans up here but the talk is really about getting Moreno to the Smeagols, Gnats fans seem more interested in the trade talks for Braylon or Boldin, Stealers fans are like.. screw it, we'll win again.

Just curious, have you heard the latest nugget up there regarding Sheldon Brown? It was reported today that Sheldon Brown has been asking for a new contract and is now asking to be traded. Some Eagle media outlets are now talking about drafting a CB with their 1st round pick. They have pressing needs at RB, WR, SS, FS and TE. They might have to add CB to that list.

[langleyparkjoe]

Hey, I'm in Bethlehem PA now.. I work with Smeagol/Gnats/Stealers fans up here but the talk is really about getting Moreno to the Smeagols, Gnats fans seem more interested in the trade talks for Braylon or Boldin, Stealers fans are like.. screw it, we'll win again.

Just curious, have you heard the latest nugget up there regarding Sheldon Brown? It was reported today that Sheldon Brown has been asking for a new contract and is now asking to be traded. Some Eagle media outlets are now talking about drafting a CB with their 1st round pick. They have pressing needs at RB, WR, SS, FS and TE. They might have to add CB to that list.

My co-worker just explained that the issue is the Smeagols want to move Sheldon to the safety position since they lost Dawkins and they have other CBs. My other co-worker is taking the "he needs to shut up and play (approach) now that we have a chance to really beef up our d-squad more". They both agreed that if they trade him, they want him to be a part of a Anquan Boldin thing with maybe giving up a 2nd rounder.

Sounds interesting to say the least? SkinsFreak I never realized that Sheldon Brown is thaaat good????

[DEHog]

Yes... they did. My friend who is a huge Philly fan was pissed when he found out they parted ways with Buckhalter.

Doesn't mean he was a starter..
76 carries for 369 yards is hardly starter numbers...and he 30 very old by RB standards.

Well... if you want to argue over the term "starter"...

Even though Westbrook is the primary guy, Buckhalter was spelling Westbrook in just about every game. The RB position is unique in that there is a rotation employed. So in my mind, maybe not yours, regardless of what a program line-up would say, the two RB's that play in every game are considered starters. I know what you're going to say however... the program lists Westbrook as the starter due to an 11-man offensive line-up... I get that and is not what I'm referring to.

Most teams these days, including the Eagles, use two RB's. Buckhalter played in 14 games last year and also had 324 receiving yards. Starter... speller... whatever... they lost an important piece of their offense. Most Philly fans would tell you that. Nevertheless, if they draft a guy like Chris Wells, they should be okay.

The point I was making was that they lost quite a few players this year and have holes to fill. And with the exception of Peters, they've yet to actually upgrade any of those positions. Additionally, they still can't get McNabb a receiver. I don't really care if Buckhalter is dubbed a starter or not, that's not the point.

And no matter how great you claim they are, we still swept them last year. I know where they went in the playoffs last season, but with regard to that one divisional opponent, the record still stands that the Skins swept them and could do it again. I'm not fretting over the signing of Peters.

Rd.1 (19): WR Jeremy Maclin
Rd. 2 (53): RB LeSean McCoy
Rd. 5 (153): TE Cornelius Ingram
Rd. 5 (157): CB Victor Harris
Rd. 5 (159): T Fenuki Tupou
Rd. 6 (194): WR Brandon Gibson
Rd. 7 (213): G Paul Fanaika
Rd. 7 (230): LB Moise Fokou


All argument aside I thought the Eagles did pretty well and IF Ingram's knee is OK they did great...Clearly McNabb's window is closing and they are trying to win a SB before he retires.

[SkinsJock]

Yes... they did. My friend who is a huge Philly fan was pissed when he found out they parted ways with Buckhalter.

Doesn't mean he was a starter..
76 carries for 369 yards is hardly starter numbers...and he 30 very old by RB standards.

Well... if you want to argue over the term "starter"...
Even though Westbrook is the primary guy, Buckhalter was spelling Westbrook in just about every game. The RB position is unique in that there is a rotation employed. So in my mind, maybe not yours, regardless of what a program line-up would say, the two RB's that play in every game are considered starters. I know what you're going to say however... the program lists Westbrook as the starter due to an 11-man offensive line-up... I get that and is not what I'm referring to.
Most teams these days, including the Eagles, use two RB's. Buckhalter played in 14 games last year and also had 324 receiving yards. Starter... speller... whatever... they lost an important piece of their offense. Most Philly fans would tell you that. Nevertheless, if they draft a guy like Chris Wells, they should be okay.
The point I was making was that they lost quite a few players this year and have holes to fill. And with the exception of Peters, they've yet to actually upgrade any of those positions. Additionally, they still can't get McNabb a receiver. I don't really care if Buckhalter is dubbed a starter or not, that's not the point.
And no matter how great you claim they are, we still swept them last year. I know where they went in the playoffs last season, but with regard to that one divisional opponent, the record still stands that the Skins swept them and could do it again. I'm not fretting over the signing of Peters.

Rd.1 (19): WR Jeremy Maclin
Rd. 2 (53): RB LeSean McCoy
Rd. 5 (153): TE Cornelius Ingram
Rd. 5 (157): CB Victor Harris
Rd. 5 (159): T Fenuki Tupou
Rd. 6 (194): WR Brandon Gibson
Rd. 7 (213): G Paul Fanaika
Rd. 7 (230): LB Moise Fokou
All argument aside I thought the Eagles did pretty well and IF Ingram's knee is OK they did great ... Clearly McNabb's window is closing and they are trying to win a SB before he retires.

I would also add that I agree with DEHog's assertion when you factor in that the Eagles added both Jason Peters and Ellis Hobbs to the mix. Some teams have people that know how to manage a draft - New England already has 3 #2 picks in next year's draft this is a team that is only trying to maintain their position while we are a team (that only a few of us here at THN seem to consider) that needs to do a major overhaul and we do not have the people running this team that know how to do that.

Just hire the guys Snyder, you have the money, stop screwing with the team and with the fans

I would interpret from the above that it is Skins Freak's opinion that we are a better team than the Eagles at this time and could in fact beat them in both games this season - I'm a very strong supporter of this team but at this time I do not think we are a better team and I would be really surprised if we will end up with a better record than the eagles this coming season even if we manage to get very lucky against them again this year.
We beat a couple of teams we were not better than last season and we lost to a couple of teams we were better than - the better teams do not always win, but the better teams only have occasional lapses - we were not a good team even if some here want to kid themselves about the 6-2 start

the fact remains we are a team in need of immediate change at 4 of 5 positions on the offensive line (Samuels is our only really good offensive lineman and we all hope that Dockery is able to contribute). We need much better players than Dockery to have a really good line and I do not see the urgency to address that side of the ball.

We have to hope that so many good things happen to be a more effective scoring offense this fall and it is not really possible that that is going to occur. Most here also recognize that there is little to no chance of Campbell being here - IF he has a fantastic year I hope he leaves anyway as he might be good but he's never going to be good enough. We need a big time QB and he's not that.




I will be a very big supporter of this team again but I also will be coming back to remind a lot of guys here whose opinion I respect (there are some who I think do not really know what they are seeing) that they were right in thinking we are on the path to a successful team this year OR to say I'm sorry but you really were just blinded by your loyalty and refused to see the train approaching.



this was posted in late April 2009, just for the record we will be bringing this back to everyone's viewing pleasure in a year.