Washington Redskins 2009 draft class Best pick: DE Brian Orakpo, Texas (First round, No. 13 overall) Worst pick: OLB Cody Glenn, Nebraska (Fifth round, No. 158 overall) Bottom line: It looked for awhile like the Redskins would land QB Mark Sanchez, but after failing to do so, they are now left doing damage control with returning starting QB Jason Campbell. The good news is Washington's first two picks -- its only two in the first four rounds -- should both become good starters. Orakpo fits better as 4-3 defensive end and should help immediately upgrade the Redskins' feeble pass rush. CB Kevin Barnes is an underrated corner who, when healthy, shows the potential to develop into a good starter.
Kiper...
Washington Redskins: GRADE: C+ Brian Orakpo fell into their laps and he gives them the pass-rushing presence they haven't had since Dexter Manley. Kevin Barnes is a decent third-round pick. Robert Henson is a decent late-round pick at linebacker.
Prisco gave us a "C" grade...
I like Orakpo, but they landed little else that excites. And not having a second-round pick really hurt.
Best pick: They needed a defensive end and landed one in Brian Orakpo, who fell to the them at 13. He will be a rookie starter.
Questionable move: Trading their second-round pick away last year to the Dolphins for Jason Taylor. How'd that work out?
Second-day gem: Third-round pick Kevin Barnes has a chance to be a factor as a nickel corner.
Why re-hash the Taylor deal? geez - I am not defending the team at all but we were in a bind on the defensive line and had to do something - who knows how that might have worked out if Taylor had been used properly and if he had not been a little dinged up. I am not sure that Blache and the defensive coaches utilized Taylor correctly and maybe someone should have looked at the cost of the picks and if Taylor would be worth the cost on the "downside" of that transaction as well as the "upside" of the transaction - we'll never really know.
As far as this draft was concerned - when they could not get either QB (Cutler & Sanchez) - they should have looked at both this year and next year's draft and tried to do more about the offense in my opinion.
Hey! what do we really know? These offensive guys could really surprise us this year I mean the economy is going to get better too .... isnt it? I think there is a really great chance that we can be very competitive with this group .... but wait - there is still all the undrafted free agents out there and there will be some players cut in the next few months that can help us .... we'll be fine - Cerrato and Snyder know what they are doing
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Grading a draft class 1 day after it's done is one of the stupidest things I've heard of. In essence, it's the expert's opinions of how well the team's draft picks matched up to their own value board.
PulpExposure wrote:Grading a draft class 1 day after it's done is one of the stupidest things I've heard of. In essence, it's the expert's opinions of how well the team's draft picks matched up to their own value board.
Deadskins wrote:The Skins are claiming they were trying to move up to pick Orakpo, not Sanchez, and just got lucky he fell to them anyway. I'm hoping that's true.
Also, we signed Mike Williams, a former #4 overall pick, in FA on Friday.
Vinny siad they made calls on Sanchez but the price was to high as for moving up to get Orakp why would Denver not do that?? We weren't going to take a RB. So why wouldn't they grab a extra picks??
On the flip side with so few picks why would we give up pick...wasn't it Vinny who said you "take the best availible" if Denver had picked BO we take MO....
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
PulpExposure wrote:Grading a draft class 1 day after it's done is one of the stupidest things I've heard of. In essence, it's the expert's opinions of how well the team's draft picks matched up to their own value board.
Taylor was not "a little dinged up" he had a career threatening injury. Compartment syndrome is a serious matter and the injury was caused via freak accident. It ruined his season. At the time it was a good trade, and we beat the Bucs to the punch as they were in on Taylor too. People forget that we lost two defensive linemen on the first day of training camp and needed a replacement. Vinny got a guy who just two seasons before was the defensive player of the year. It was an excellent move with the information available.
In any case, that's neither here nor there. This post is about our draft grades, not last season's trades.
I respect Mel Kiper, Todd McShay and other's opinions but they say it takes 3 years to really evaluate a draft class... so how could Kiper or McShay do it the season after?
Here's some gems from Mel Kiper:
2001- Receiver Rod Gardner was an outstanding pick and is a big-time talent. He makes their draft because they needed a top-quality receiver.
2002- Harrington is a great fit for Mornhinweg's West Coast scheme. Harrington, who has a Brett Favre-like flair for the dramatic, was a highly productive quarterback and one I had rated only slightly behind Carr. But he outperformed Carr at the NFL scouting combine, showing tremendous touch and accuracy on deep balls and more than adequate arm strength.
2003- New York Giants: C
William Joseph can help the Giants, but they reached in taking Osi Umenyiora in the second round and Vishante Shiancoe in the third. Rod Babers and David Diehl should turn out OK.
These are just a couple examples, just goodle Mel Kiper and you'll see he misses a lot, just like a real NFL scouting department!
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
Vinny siad they made calls on Sanchez but the price was to high as for moving up to get Orakp why would Denver not do that?? We weren't going to take a RB. So why wouldn't they grab a extra picks??
On the ESPN 980 this morning they were speculating that Vinny lied about his conversation with Denver. Similarly to what you said, they pointed out that it makes no sense from Denver's point of view to trade down and pick up extra picks when the player they wanted would still have been available.
At the time it was a good trade, and we beat the Bucs to the punch as they were in on Taylor too. People forget that we lost two defensive linemen on the first day of training camp and needed a replacement.
Nonsene. I don't know how else to tell you this but at the time that we traded for him Taylor was not a defensive lineman, he was playing mostly as a 3-4 linebacker for the Dolphins. He won defensive player of the year playing 3-4 linebacker, not as an every down defensive end. At 240 pounds he was not cut out to be a LDE, the position we had him play. That was a position that he had never played on a full-time basis and trading for him with the idea of using him as a LDE was idiotic.
Skinsfan55 wrote:Taylor was not "a little dinged up" he had a career threatening injury. Compartment syndrome is a serious matter and the injury was caused via freak accident. It ruined his season. At the time it was a good trade, and we beat the Bucs to the punch as they were in on Taylor too. People forget that we lost two defensive linemen on the first day of training camp and needed a replacement. Vinny got a guy who just two seasons before was the defensive player of the year. It was an excellent move with the information available.
In any case, that's neither here nor there. This post is about our draft grades, not last season's trades.
I respect Mel Kiper, Todd McShay and other's opinions but they say it takes 3 years to really evaluate a draft class... so how could Kiper or McShay do it the season after?
Here's some gems from Mel Kiper:
2001- Receiver Rod Gardner was an outstanding pick and is a big-time talent. He makes their draft because they needed a top-quality receiver.
2002- Harrington is a great fit for Mornhinweg's West Coast scheme. Harrington, who has a Brett Favre-like flair for the dramatic, was a highly productive quarterback and one I had rated only slightly behind Carr. But he outperformed Carr at the NFL scouting combine, showing tremendous touch and accuracy on deep balls and more than adequate arm strength.
2003- New York Giants: C William Joseph can help the Giants, but they reached in taking Osi Umenyiora in the second round and Vishante Shiancoe in the third. Rod Babers and David Diehl should turn out OK.
These are just a couple examples, just goodle Mel Kiper and you'll see he misses a lot, just like a real NFL scouting department!
despite saying OR implying "In any case, that's neither here nor there. This post is about our draft grades, not last season's trades. "
you then go onto some analysis of a bunch of BS about past team's - give me a break - this team's draft this year is not my biggest worry it's who's in charge of turning things around here and how they are going about it - some of the drivel about how well we are going to do here is based on the same stupid thinking - everything will work out here! how do we have any faith in these guys? they have showed us nothing - this draft and last years draft can all be starters for this team and that would still not mean that we are a more competitive team than the competition - it just means we have a better team than last year which was not a top 20 team in the NFL - we deserve a lot better but we are not going to get there with this group.
we need to get better than the other teams not better than the bad team we have now. that is like some here who have said that Snyder at least improved the team after he bought it - what It was a bad team at the end under JKC but it did not becaome a good team under Snyder, it just became a "better" team. All he has managed to do is give us a team that is mediocre and he has not managed to maintain a level of consistency that we all deserve from this team.
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
That is just a lie. Jason Taylor has always been primarily a defensive end. They had a hybrid offense where they would switch looks sometimes, but Taylor has always been a defensive end.
Your opinion that such a move was "idiotic" is laughed at. We beat the Bucs for him and he was actually closer to 260 pounds than 240. Every major media outlet said it was a good trade at the time and a huge boost to us. Unfortunately he suffered a career threatening injury.
Like they say, hindsight's 20/20
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
obviously you can't fully measure the spoils of the draft yet, but you CAN measure value immediately.
you can also look and see if a team managed to address its needs.
besides, these guys cover the draft for a living. be it pointless or not to grade a team's performance after 1 day, what else are they going to do now? they've been preparing for it for a year, so why not offer up some opinions? they are getting paid to do it.
if it's so pointless to grade it, what was the ponit of us watching and rooting for the team to draft who we wanted. why do we come here to discuss and debate who we should pick? we can't tell anything for 3 years anyway, right?
just seems ironic that we (message board opinion givers) scoff at the gall of these people to give us their opinions of the draft that they cover FOR A LIVING.
Skinsfan55 wrote:That is just a lie. Jason Taylor has always been primarily a defensive end. They had a hybrid offense where they would switch looks sometimes, but Taylor has always been a defensive end.
Your opinion that such a move was "idiotic" is laughed at. We beat the Bucs for him and he was actually closer to 260 pounds than 240. Every major media outlet said it was a good trade at the time and a huge boost to us. Unfortunately he suffered a career threatening injury.
Like they say, hindsight's 20/20
Primarily a RDE, not a LDE. Show me where he has ever in his career started at LDE. There is a very big difference between playing on the right side vs. playing on the left.
As for where Taylor played in Miami the last few years, he was used in hybrid role, switching from end to linebacker depending on the base defensive package that the Dolphins were running.
It was impossible to guess where Taylor would be next. Which is precisely the idea in the 3-4 defense the Dolphins will unveil in their first season under Saban.
"(It) puts him in the best position to make plays," Saban says of Taylor's new role as a 3-4 outside linebacker and end when the Dolphins use a four-man line. "His ability to do some things in coverage helps us have some (options) that we wouldn't have if everybody identified him as a rusher all the time. He is very athletic and bright and understands the concepts easily."
Jason Taylor, now a Redskin, had his MVP season is 2006 while playing outside linebacker in a hybrid 4-3/3-4. His biggest plays came while standing up like a linebacker.
All BS analysis aside he’s my problem with our draft. Take a look at the teams within our division…to win in the NFL it start with being able to win in your own division.
We had six picks, what do we have to show for the pick we didn’t have?? The Eagles had 8 and didn’t pick in round 3 or 4?? The Giants had 9 picks and the Cowboys had 12 with no picks on the first day??
We can argue all day long about a picks potential value but the truth is no one really knows?? Here’s what I do know if I have more picks, I have a higher chance that one of the picks will develop into a player of value for the franchise…”we continue to reduce the margin for errors” and jeopardize our future by giving up picks like they are coupons!
Last year is a great example we found Horton…
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
As for Taylor I was always against giving a 2nd for him...but on the bright side had we had that pick this year we may have traded our entire draft for Snachez!!
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
DEHog wrote:As for Taylor I was always against giving a 2nd for him...but on the bright side had we had that pick this year we may have traded our entire draft for Sanchez!!
Great Call. We would be in deep, you know what, if we had a 2nd Rd pick.
Deadskins wrote:The Skins are claiming they were trying to move up to pick Orakpo, not Sanchez, and just got lucky he fell to them anyway. I'm hoping that's true.
Also, we signed Mike Williams, a former #4 overall pick, in FA on Friday.
I wouldn't doubt that. After pick 5 and Orakpo didn't go I thought man we have got to trade up to pick him before he hits Buffalo. I've also heard that the whole Sanchez thing was blown way out of proportion just because of Snyder's reputation. Maybe we were trying to trade for Orakpo but the media just assumed we were trading up to get Sanchez because we talked to him or "showed interest" like every other team in the NFL.
Deadskins wrote:The Skins are claiming they were trying to move up to pick Orakpo, not Sanchez, and just got lucky he fell to them anyway. I'm hoping that's true.
Also, we signed Mike Williams, a former #4 overall pick, in FA on Friday.
I wouldn't doubt that. After pick 5 and Orakpo didn't go I thought man we have got to trade up to pick him before he hits Buffalo. I've also heard that the whole Sanchez thing was blown way out of proportion just because of Snyder's reputation. Maybe we were trying to trade for Orakpo but the media just assumed we were trading up to get Sanchez because we talked to him or "showed interest" like every other team in the NFL.
Yes they did...
Redskins did try to trade up for Sanchez but were outbid by the Jets. "We made a couple of calls, but it was too expensive," Redskins Executive Vice President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato said Saturday night.
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
The reason we got a C from everyone as opposed to an A or B is because of Cody Glenn. You can't take a player you know will go undrafted in the fifth round. Not having a second didn't help. The Giants had a really good draft unfortunately.
Deadskins wrote:The Skins are claiming they were trying to move up to pick Orakpo, not Sanchez, and just got lucky he fell to them anyway. I'm hoping that's true.
Also, we signed Mike Williams, a former #4 overall pick, in FA on Friday.
I wouldn't doubt that. After pick 5 and Orakpo didn't go I thought man we have got to trade up to pick him before he hits Buffalo. I've also heard that the whole Sanchez thing was blown way out of proportion just because of Snyder's reputation. Maybe we were trying to trade for Orakpo but the media just assumed we were trading up to get Sanchez because we talked to him or "showed interest" like every other team in the NFL.
Yes they did...
Redskins did try to trade up for Sanchez but were outbid by the Jets. "We made a couple of calls, but it was too expensive," Redskins Executive Vice President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato said Saturday night.
Ahh thats what happens when you give Danny and Vinny the benefit of the doubt.
Who cares what the "experts" say. If it were Philadelphia or New England that drafted the same players we did they would be heralded as great organizations. But for Al Davis we have the most disrespected owner in the league - mind you, I'm not say The Danny deserves to be loved.
cleg wrote:Who cares what the "experts" say. If it were Philadelphia or New England that drafted the same players we did they would be heralded as great organizations. But for Al Davis we have the most disrespected owner in the league - mind you, I'm not say The Danny deserves to be loved.
If the Eagles drafted Cody Glenn they would also be scrutinized.
cleg wrote:Who cares what the "experts" say. If it were Philadelphia or New England that drafted the same players we did they would be heralded as great organizations. But for Al Davis we have the most disrespected owner in the league - mind you, I'm not say The Danny deserves to be loved.
If the Eagles drafted Cody Glenn they would also be scrutinized.
But of course. Instead, they draft Macklin, a speedy receiver almost in an identical mold of DeSean Jackson, and LeSean McCoy, a 5'10 - 205 lb running back who is quick on the edges and is a good pass catcher out of the backfield... oh right, the exact same type of player they already have in Westbrook. Yet their draft was brilliant. I talked to one on my friends who is a huge Eagles fan and although he thinks Macklin and McCoy are good players, he was disgusted they drafted two players who are both in the same molds as players they already have.
I mean the economy is going to get better too .... isnt it? I think there is a really great chance that we can be very competitive with this group .... but wait - there is still all the undrafted free agents out there and there will be some players cut in the next few months that can help us .... we'll be fine - Cerrato and Snyder know what they are doing 
It was a bad team at the end under JKC but it did not becaome a good team under Snyder, it just became a "better" team. All he has managed to do is give us a team that is mediocre and he has not managed to maintain a level of consistency that we all deserve from this team.
