OFFICIAL Washington Redskins Draft Day Discussion.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:56 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Everyone's acting like Jansen sucks and we need a RT immediately but Jansen isn't as bad as people are making him out to be.

Jansen does suck. His play last season supports that.

Yea 3-4 teams intentionally stack lb's on that side because they know that they can beat cooley or jansen, and often beat both. That's why we have 2 lb's untouched planting campbell when we play the steelers.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:57 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:The offensive line was TERRIBLE last season. It is absurd to think that it will automatically get better as our already old players get older. Jansen, by the way, is not an excellent tackle anymore. At this point he is below average and has no business being a starter in the NFL. Go back and watch how badly he got abused in pass protection last season. It was an embarrassment. I really do love posts like this that proclaim that the o-line will miraculously get better despite only one change being made, and that to a part of the line that wasn't really a problem.

This is just drivel.

Despite just one change being made? What if I said we changed our o-lin by 20%? That do anything for you? :roll:

The offensive line was injured. Randy Thomas had a career ending injury, our stud left tackle was on IR. Pete Kendall was old and worn down. Jon Jansen was pretty much on his own at RT with no support.

I don't think it's going to be "miraculous" for the offensive line to play better. I think they are healthy and have netter depth. There's a huge difference. Also, your amateur scouting report on Jon Jansen is completely irrelevant. Fact is his pass protecting skills are eroding but many around the league say he's still a great run blocker. With help and depth to keep him fresh we'll see improved play. Everyone on the line is healthy and we have Williams, Heyer and Rinehart for depth.

Also, we added Dockery who is one of the better guards in football and was once rewarded with the 3rd highest contract in history. So it's not like the difference between he and Pete Kendall is marginal. It's huge. Derrick Dockery is a far better player.

The defensive line was the real problem, especially at the end position and we solved it with Orakpo.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:59 pm

Meredith passed over again, does he make it to our pick?

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:59 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:The offensive line was TERRIBLE last season. It is absurd to think that it will automatically get better as our already old players get older. Jansen, by the way, is not an excellent tackle anymore. At this point he is below average and has no business being a starter in the NFL. Go back and watch how badly he got abused in pass protection last season. It was an embarrassment. I really do love posts like this that proclaim that the o-line will miraculously get better despite only one change being made, and that to a part of the line that wasn't really a problem.

This is just drivel.

Despite just one change being made? What if I said we changed our o-lin by 20%? That do anything for you?

The offensive line was injured. Randy Thomas had a career ending injury, our stud left tackle was on IR. Pete Kendall was old and worn down. Jon Jansen was pretty much on his own at RT with no support.

I don't think it's going to be "miraculous" for the offensive line to play better. I think they are healthy and have netter depth. There's a huge difference. Also, your amateur scouting report on Jon Jansen is completely irrelevant. Fact is his pass protecting skills are eroding but many around the league say he's still a great run blocker. With help and depth to keep him fresh we'll see improved play. Everyone on the line is healthy and we have Williams, Heyer and Rinehart for depth.

Also, we added Dockery who is one of the better guards in football and was once rewarded with the 3rd highest contract in history. So it's not like the difference between he and Pete Kendall is marginal. It's huge. Derrick Dockery is a far better player.

The defensive line was the real problem, especially at the end position and we solved it with Orakpo.

You obviously didn't watch any games last year, or else you think its normal for people to come unblocked and wreck the qb. Actually, if someone watched the skins long enough, I could see how they would get that idea.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:01 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Meredith passed over again, does he make it to our pick?

Kropog is pretty good, he got taken. The only two left are Meredith and Cadogan that are any good, that aren't sleepers anyway. If Meredith slips there and they don't take him i quit.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:02 pm

It's not normal for the entire offensive line to be injured. I know that much.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:02 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Everyone's acting like Jansen sucks and we need a RT immediately but Jansen isn't as bad as people are making him out to be.

Jansen does suck. His play last season supports that.

Most guys play sub-par the year after injury. What I like to hear is that he has been working out like crazy and has lived at the facility this offseason. He said that he's working toward a probowl and that is good hear hear. I'm not saying he will make it but maybe him loosing his position last year was the best thing for this team and him. Nothing like lighting a fire under him.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:02 pm

The offensive line was injured. Randy Thomas had a career ending injury, our stud left tackle was on IR. Pete Kendall was old and worn down. Jon Jansen was pretty much on his own at RT with no support.

4 out of the 5 starters are 31 or older. Expecting them to stay healthy is a joke. Depth, what depth? Williams? A HUGE bust. Rhinehardt, who has proven nothing in the NFL?

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:03 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:It's not normal for the entire offensive line to be injured. I know that much.

Here's what we are saying. The RT position is the problem. Jansen and Heyer can not play in the NFL. Heyer never could. They must be replaced or every qb we put in will die.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:05 pm

I expect Buffalo to go OT before the skins pick. Other than that I don't know.

lowtharofthehill · Post by **lowtharofthehill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:05 pm

Jansen Is also not a Starter on our team anymore. he is the backup to Heyer!

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:05 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
The offensive line was injured. Randy Thomas had a career ending injury, our stud left tackle was on IR. Pete Kendall was old and worn down. Jon Jansen was pretty much on his own at RT with no support.

4 out of the 5 starters are 31 or older. Expecting them to stay healthy is a joke. Depth, what depth? Williams? A HUGE bust. Rhinehardt, who has proven nothing in the NFL?

Isn't that what draft picks are? Even the top Tackle can bust. Ask Michael Williams. We are just giving him a 2nd opportunity to try. Its not like he has been given the starter tag as of yet.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:08 pm

lowtharofthehill wrote:Jansen Is also not a Starter on our team anymore. he is the backup to Heyer!

Actually, Zorn said those guys are going to battle it out. There currently is no depth chart. The only reason why Heyer came in for Jansen at the end of the season is b/c Jason ended up playing guard if I remember correctly.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:08 pm

RE: Randy Thomas, I meant career threatening I just caught that.

Williams is a no risk high reward guy, I don't care at all what he did in the past. Also I am laughing about what you said about Rinehart. Sure, he's proved nothing in the NFL (other than Joe Bugel's recommendation) but neither have ANY of these guys you want us to draft, lol.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:08 pm

Also, your amateur scouting report on Jon Jansen is completely irrelevant

You think you could go one day without discounting other people's opinion?? Just because you type a topic into a search engine and select the first article that fits your aurgument doesn't make your opionion more or less relevant then ours. I try to respect everyone opionion here and hope they do the same, if I disagree...I disagree I don't call their opionions "irrelevant"

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:09 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:It's not normal for the entire offensive line to be injured. I know that much.

I'm not sure why you are surprised by that. All starters last year (after Jansen took over for Heyer) were over the age of 31. Jansen and Thomas have had injury problems the last few years and Kendall's knee problems were an issue before he got here. When you have a line that is this old injuries are going to happen.

lowtharofthehill · Post by **lowtharofthehill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:09 pm

lowtharofthehill wrote:
Jansen Is also not a Starter on our team anymore. he is the backup to Heyer!

Actually, Zorn said those guys are going to battle it out. There currently is no depth chart. The only reason why Heyer came in for Jansen at the end of the season is b/c Jason ended up playing guard if I remember correctly.
_________________

And Vinny who has more say than Zorn said that its Heyer's job to lose. Which means its his job right now. Which means he is the starter! And he was the starter going into the season last year. The only reason Jansen started was because Heyer got hurt.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:11 pm

lowtharofthehill wrote:Jansen Is also not a Starter on our team anymore. he is the backup to Heyer!

Neither Heyer nor Jansen are starting caliber.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:13 pm

Wow, the chiefs really reached for a tackle there.

lowtharofthehill · Post by **lowtharofthehill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:13 pm

And most people were pushing for Duke Robinson and Jamon Merrideth with our 3rd round pick. But no one took them in the 3rd or 4th. Maybe now in the 5th they are better value.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:14 pm

there actually will be a decent OT left at this rate, if there isn't a run. It's mostly luck though. I give the skins no credit for it. The OT's that have gone lately aside from Kropog have been reaches.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:16 pm

I think we get Marcus Freeman OLB from Ohio St. with our pick here if we don't trade down.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:17 pm

The 9'ers and Bills SHOULD go OT. Whether on not they will I don't know.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:21 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
LT Chris Samuels- 6 time Pro-Bowler (1st rounder)
LG- Derrick Dockery- Once one of the highest paid guards. (3rd rounder)
C- Casey Rabach one of the most respected centers in the league. (3rd rounder.)
RG- Randy Thomas- One of the top guards. (2nd rounder.)
RT- Jon Jansen- Skills eroding but excellent tackle with good backups (2nd rounder.)

The offensive line was TERRIBLE last season. It is absurd to think that it will automatically get better as our already old players get older. Jansen, by the way, is not an excellent tackle anymore. At this point he is below average and has no business being a starter in the NFL. Go back and watch how badly he got abused in pass protection last season. It was an embarrassment. I really do love posts like this that proclaim that the o-line will miraculously get better despite only one change being made, and that to a part of the line that wasn't really a problem.

I'm SORRY BUT THIS STATEMENT IS SIMPLE NOT TRUE!!!!!!

The OL was playing like on of the best in the league for the better part of the first 8 games. They played poorly down the road, but that could be blame on injuries to the OL, to CP, and to Moss. Also, JC's inability to read defenses pre-snap and slow decision making were responsible for AT LEAST every third sack last year.

However, I do have to give him credit for getting out of a good amount of sacks, but that wasn't as many as he caused.

The OL IS NOT as bad as a lot of fan made it out to be. The cards went to the SB with one of the worst OLs in football, far worst than ours. They had the worst run game in the NFL #32 overall. Yes, I know they throw the ball a lot, but that is almost a by product of them not being productive in the run game as having three stud WR and a QB that knows how to avoid taking a sack!

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:23 pm

If we had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, and Anquan Boldin, then maybe our OL's weakness wouldn't matter so much. But we don't, and won't, so I think it deserves to be addressed.