Chemical Weapon found in Iraq

[NikiH]

Ok Redskins Rule, I agree with you on most things but the economy is not what you make it out to be. Did you pull your money from the market after you lost some? The market is actually doing pretty well. Unemployment is down. I cannot see how you could hold any of those things against Bush. Look at any other economy at the time of war and you will see this isn't looking half bad. The oil prices are not Bushes fault. Kerry actually wanted to impose another gas tax. That would make your out of pocket cost even more. So I cannot see the alternative being any better.

[Redskins Rule]

Hey NikiH,

You have a good point there. But, my money has been in the stocks ever since December of 1999. I was going to take it out just after the election of 2000. I lost alot leading up to January, but it wasn't the $7,000. It was only $3,000. After the $3,000 I had enough and was going to pull it out and put it back in the money market. But President Bush came out and hyped up his bullcrud tax cut and then said that the market looks good for growth. I actually listened to him. I trusted my President. OOPS!!!!

My money is still in the market now. I'm hoping that the market will all of a sudden turn around and be like it was several years ago AND I DON'T WANNA MISS ANY OF IT. By the time I realized I had been screwed it was before the horrible day of 9/11 and I had lost so much that there just wasn't any point of taking what was left out. I know I was stupid for leaving it in there all of this time, but I've learned now.

In My Humble Opinion it is all his fault. He had a huge surplus when he took over, which is now GONE!!! I don't understand how I can not blame him for this. Unless he fixes his screw up before November or at least show me a plan on how he's gonna fix it I WILL vote for someone else.

NOONE BETTER GET ME WRONG!!! I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AND EVERYWHERE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!

[Skinsfan55]

That's RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. I must have fallen asleep the day we covered the chapter on how the minutemen dressed up as "minutewomen" to ambush the British. Or the time they sent their children to put a cap in the British. I knew my education was missing something. My bad.

Um the minutemen DID use children, we had young kids on the front line... we were forced to use anyone we could who knew how to fire a gun. After all, we were defending our land from a foreign power, we were forced to...

[Skinsfan55]

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Skinsfan I should have known you'd jump all over this. Listen to the news dude.

The "liberal" news?

Remember that scene from "The Untouchables" where Connery says: "they pull a knife, you pull a gun. They put one of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue, THAT's how you beat Capone!"

Well, they get caught with a trace ammount of sarin, and make a couple soldiers sick... you bomb a wedding party and kill 40 innocent, defenseless and unsuspecting people. That's how we're going to "win" I suppose. Oh, but that's right... this story must have no credence, seeing as it came from a "liberal" media source (i.e. every newspaper, radio station, tv station on the planet)

The bottom line is some of our bombing pilots committed pure abject murder for their country. You can say all you want about Iraqi ambushes, but for the most part they are defending their country and trying to preserve thier way of life. (Nick Berg obviously excluded). We made a huge mistake going into Iraq and it's getting more obvious by the day. Sure, we got Saddam, but at what cost? Now dozens of Iraqi's are safe and free to kill hundreds of soldiers? Oh how much better this situation has and will continue to become.

This "war" will go on for scores to come and will probably never come to a difinitive conclusion. Our two regions are far to removed to EVER even come close to a mutual friendship or working relationship. This war is obviously a gigantic mistake and it shocks me that none of you warhawks can see from the point of view of the other side.

[Skinsfan55]

Name me one battle that we as Americans fought which involved killing civilians during the Revolutionary War.

People will define "civilian" differently. To the terrorists responsible the west is the enemy and no distinction is made between civilians and soldiers. We all do our part to harm their way of life and project our own. Of course, this is perfectly normal, and I will certainly concede that killing Nick Berg was cowardly, not because he was a "civilian" but because his hands were tied behind him and he was killed in such a cruel and painful fashion.

Still, people refuse to step back and look at this from all sides. I am so shocked that it seems few if any of you know the first thing about the Islamic/Terrorist point of view on this subject. Not that your post particularly addressed this, but it's so easy to say "We're right!" and it really is a cop out.

I am American as the next guy, born in Maine, raised in a couple different parts of this great country and the Star Spangled Banner gives me goosebumps every time I hear it. I love baseball, apple pie and cheeseburgers I believe in God and I'll go out of my way to buy American made merchandise when possible... and it tears me up inside when I see us straying from the path to committ murder in faraway lands to support our own ends.

[Skinsfan55]

Pretty pathetic stuff there Skinsfan. Saddam boasted about paying the families of homocide bombers - that means Saddam financed terror operations. If I need to use smaller words let me know.

Abu Abbas was arrested in Iraq - he hijacked the cruise liner and killed the old man in a wheel chair... for being a Jew. Saddam provided safe haven, training and more money to other terror organizations.

We've found mass graves of hundreds of thousands of people. There are video tapes of Iraqi torture - real torture - rape, fingers getting cut off, people dipped in acid, babies being gassed to death.

In addition, he had dozens of opportunities to avoid the war. He rested on the belief that the Powerful French government, along with the Germans and Russians - who will soon be proved to have lined their pockets with the "oil for food" money.

If we don't take the fight to them - they'll come for us. Maybe you were asleep for a few years - but they murdered over 3,000 Americans 9/11/2001.

The name of the enemy is TERRORISTS. You can spew all the trash you want about WMD's, no connection to Al Queda, Ted (prom-date) Kennedy's war theory... and you can swallow all of it that you want.

It's simple - If you hide terrorists = you're a terrorist. If you give money to a terrorist = you're a terrorist. If you have something to hide and you bow your chest and dare someone they can't do anything about it - you deserve the asswhipping of your life.

You feel sorry for Saddam all day long. You buy the liberal media BS. I'll support the men and women that allow me the freedom to drink beer and watch my Redskins. Don't think you can support them and not support the President either - what the hell go ahead! The fact of the matter is you can't do both simultaneously.

I feel sorry for people that don't get it - and if Kerry wins, things will hit home sooner than you think. Critical thinking and independent thought are assumed to be the sole property of the anti-war crowd. If that's the case, why do they need so much reassurance from the media.

Scooter, nice touch on the whole "using smaller words" bit, as I MUST be an idiot because I don't see things from the same point of view as you... touche'

Now, back to the task at hand.

Obviously Saddam is a bad man... I don't think anyone is painting him as a Saint... the point is that going in the get him has opened a whole other can of worms. Invading the middle east like this is short-sighted. Supervising the Iraqi's as we spoonfeed them a constitution is arrogant and doing all of this with little to no international support is ignoring all the signs that this is a stupid idea. Could it be these countries (Germany, France, Russia) understand the region better because they are in closer proximity and they see invading a middle eastern power for no reason as dangerous?

This region is a powderkeg, don't you understand? We're playing fast and loose with the rules of engagement here and the president has abused his power to force us into a war that all signs told us to stay out of. It's easy to support a war when you ignore little things like whoever it is we're fighting. Why don't any of you warhawks understand the middle east at all?

This is a LOT more than us vs. the terrorists... that would be too easy, a cop out. No, this is about the one remaining bastion against capitalism in the world fighting as hard as they cam to preserve their way of life.

Also, as for what you said about Kerry... I plan on voting for the man, not because he is a great canidate but because he is boring and bland and will be a very forgettable president. Why you ask? Because history has shown that a President's second term is amplified in relation to the first. That is, they are free to abuse their power a little more, to tweak the rules in their favor to pass programs they want without fear of reelection. If George Bush is reelected we'd be living in an extremely right wing society. Now, there's nothing wrong with being on the right wing, but a society will suffer when it is too extreme in either direction. As with most things, we need a happy medium, and that means just having a guy like Kerry keeping the seat warm to SAVE us from another 4 years of Bushzilla.

[Skinsfan55]

Dang Scooter that was a really good post!!!!

lol, no... no it wasn't. It was a hateful diatribe against the middle eastern region that lumped all muslims in as murderous cutthroat terrorists that really related in no way to anything I have said. It had substance, just none of it applied.

[BossHog]

It was a hateful diatribe against the middle eastern region that lumped all muslims in as murderous cutthroat terrorists that really related in no way to anything I have said.

Where?

The word muslim was never even used.

What are you referring to?

[Irn-Bru]

For those interested in supporting our troops in a fairly tangible way, here is a website that I found.

http://gipizza.com/

If you'd like, you can send some of our troops some pizza (& soda) and a message. Just for those who might be interested; and for the record I have nothing to do with the website.

[BossHog]

For those interested in supporting our troops in a fairly tangible way, here is a website that I found.

http://gipizza.com/

If you'd like, you can send some of our troops some pizza (& soda) and a message. Just for those who might be interested; and for the record I have nothing to do with the website.

... and he got my permission to post the link.

- Thanks.

[Skinsfan55]

It was a hateful diatribe against the middle eastern region that lumped all muslims in as murderous cutthroat terrorists that really related in no way to anything I have said.

Where?

The word muslim was never even used.

What are you referring to?

It's that I was talking about the middle east and the muslim people and he said "did you forget that "they" killed over 3,000 people on 9/11" making no distintion between terrorists and anyone from the middle east. It just had nothing to do with what anyone else was saying on the subject

[Skinsfan55]

Hey people, who are the terrorists anyway?

I'll admit that maybe, MAYBE we went into Iraq for good reasons, on what we presumed to be good intelligence and George W Bush honestly believes somehow that this will help, or at least end well...

But who's terrorizing who when we bomb a wedding party killing at least 40? Or when we storm a respected polititian's home and bully him because he made comments that we disagree with? Or when we turn our prisons into S&M clubs?

Has it ever occured to any warhawks out there that maybe these stories aren't being brought to us because the media is "liberal" but because this is actually what's happening? Assume for a minute we did go to Iraq in good faith (unlikely) the fact remains we are not doing good work there now. I saw a Frontline special where an Iraqi cab driver stole wood, yes, of course stealing is wrong, but who knows what this was to be used for. (To rebuild his house that the US might have bombed?) anyway, the soldiers who caught him decided that he needed punishment... they needed to pepper his car, his ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME with 9mm bullets from their M9's and then back over the vehicle with a tank. This was enough wood to maybe build a shed or a good fence with... and they ruined him in order to "teach him a lesson".

This is not righteous, we're not acting as the "world's policeman" from the Teddy Roosevelt era. We're international bullies who are terrorizing the middle east, because lets face it, we hate them and their way of life just as much as they hate us, but we won't admit it.

Just think, if only Florida had more user friendly ballots, if Gore had not taken his home state for granted, and if old people were a little stronger to punch those chads out... none of this would have ever happened in the first place.

[Skinsfan55]

For those interested in supporting our troops in a fairly tangible way, here is a website that I found.

http://gipizza.com/

If you'd like, you can send some of our troops some pizza (& soda) and a message. Just for those who might be interested; and for the record I have nothing to do with the website.

That's an awesome site, I fully support the troops... without supporting the war. Many of them didn't choose to do this, and some of whom who did choose to serve signed up after 9/11 to fight the terrorists... and must be pretty surprised that we put THAT fight on hold for a while.

anyway, I think that sending a GI some pizza and coke is a great idea I just wish I had more $$$

[NikiH]

Ok I'm only going to make one final point to you Skinsfan, because it's obvious we will not agree. Ok well make that two. First of all since when does the president make up a bill and decide it is law all on his own. I can clearly see why you are voting for Kerry. It must be convientent to vote for someone whose votes change with popular opinion. We need a president with a back bone. Exactly why I will vote for George W Bush!

Secondly we bombed a wedding 40 people, by accident. They bombed us thousands of people, ON PURPOSE! Do you see a clear line drawn there? Do you understand the significance of the difference? They will do this again and then where will you stand. When they attack a building your parent, your cousin, your neighbor is in? It needs to stop now and we need to do something proactive to stop it. That is why we are at war. That is why, like it or not, the majority still supports this war.
I am NOT a warhawk. I'm an average homemaker. And my opinion counts as much as yours. So to label me as a Warhawk is just the same thing you cuss everyone around here for doing to you.
Ok last point I promise! You say the media covered this story so how can I still say the media is slanted to the side of liberals. Well lets see here, the prisoner abuse scandal earned so much damned time on the news that I cannot hear anything lately without hearing about it, yet our soliders come very close to losing their lives from a chemical weapon, (a weapon that the media has been saying does not exist, mind you) and it earns 1 freaking day on the news. And not even follow up on our soliders condition. PATHETIC. Even if you are only in support of our soliders in this war, you need to rethink your attitude. One drop of this stuff can kill you. If this weapon had been denonated properly we would have lost some very brave and noble men and women. That is the bottom line here. And you are failing, yet again to see that.

[Skinsfan55]

That Sarin wasn't covered much, because it's just not a big deal. It's not because of any "so-called" liberal biase. You're taking this ONE story and blowing it out of proportion.

Going into Iraq we had to be flawless, we had to respect their culture while giving their own people time to formulate a government. We had to keep the badguys at bay and do our best to earn the begrudged respect of the Iraqi people. To invade we needed to have a strong front and show that we are good, honest and hardworking and only trying to help remove Saddam so they can have a better life...

And we have not come even close. Abusing prisoners by breaking them down by questioning their sexuality. Abusing prisoners through heavy handed interrogation tactics, one such instance resulting in a murder after which soldiers were shown gloating and celebrating over his corpse. Poor intelligence leading to the bombing of 40+ innocent people at a wedding party (think Kill Bill or the begining of Tombstone) bullying Iraqi citizens...

These are the things that people will naturally do when they have power, and no clear cut purpose! It's so obvious!

Have any of you heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment? In the 70's Stanford took voulenteers at random and assigned them to be either guards or inmates at a very convincing mock prison deep in the bowels of the university's psych building. After several days the guards were beyond inhuman forcing inmates to defecate in a bucket in their cell (which when punished they were not allowed to empty), do humiliating chores and do pushups constantly. They became monsters who were later shocked by their own cruelty. They stopped seeing the "prisoners" as people (who in reality had done nothing wrong) but as sub human dogs who needed to be put in their place.

This is an important study of how social roles effect behavior. These soldiers have no clear purpose in Iraq and TONS of power. So they USE their power and that's when things go horribly wrong! Whether you approve of the reasons for war or not you MUST admitt that things aren't "going according to plan" and something must be done to get these soldiers on the right track.

[Redskins Rule]

Geez SkinsFan....

You are incredibly left. I thought I was one Liberal dude. But you even got me topped!!!!!

First off dude, you need to know your chemical agents. One drop of Sarin will kill you unless you inject.....dang I totally forget what it was called. But its the thing that will stop the Nerve Agent from killing you. Finding one of those when we weren't supposed to find any is big news. Because now I'm wondering if Saddam just destroyed the stuff to make President Bush look to the world like an invading warlord. President Bush's argument to the world was to go to war to get those weapons of mass destruction before a terrorist group gets them. And now that we finally found some.....Dude, that is big news. I just wonder how much more we can find.

I just want to refresh you memory about something. Just after the tragic day of 9/11 all crop duster plains were grounded. They were grounded because the CIA had intelligence that those cowards who took our plains and killed innocent civilians had indeed looked into the crop duster plains. They didn't ever fly one, but they did study those plains. Maybe, just maybe they were giving some intelligence back to Osama Bin Laden or another terrorist. I don't know if you are aware, but those crop duster plains can carry deadly nerve agent in them instead of fertilizer. It is called a spray attack. I'm sure President Bush was now concerned that Osama Bin Laden was now one step closer to committing a chemical attack on the United States. That is why he went to war with Iraq. He wanted to eliminate that threat. And considering the circimstances he's doing a decent job.

April was a bad month for us. Everything looked like it was going great in the war until that horrible month of April. I know you might want to question why our troops are over there now and thats fine. Its normal to question it when your losing alot of good troops. But don't forget why they were sent there. Now, we have found something that could have been used against us here. That is big news and I'm pissed that the media didn't report it more.

[Scooter]

Well, when your source of information and facts begins with Al-Jezera - it could be you have your facts backwards. In fact, it's rather obvious in your back-to-back posts that you are hopelessly ignorant. You don't support the troops when you call them terrorists. The next post you say you'd love to buy them a pizza and a coke - then whine that you don't have enough money. This is like a scene reject from the exceedingly over-hyped "Lord of the Rings." You know - the squirly little freak that loves something one minute and hates it the next..

If you support the troops at all - which I have no doubt you don't - but just for grins - IF you support them at all, you'll find a way to help them or their families. Odds are you haven't and won't. At a bare minimum you should shut up long enough to hear yourself. Would the families of those troops receive your words as the gospel you profess them to be?

Your hate is blatant and obvious. And this is America - you're free to spew anything you want. Even mindless, Al Gore Won, Everything is Grey... go for it!

I have friends over there right now. I'm a little sensative when it comes to whiners. The most ridiculous thing you said was - "we hate them"... so Blah, blah, b-blah. That's just pathetically stupid. I suppose that Pat Tillman was just a moron, duped by the President. Good luck with your Ted Rall Fan Club!

Who are the terrorists - they're evil subhumans. Not to be confused with Muslims - who don't believe in murder of any kind and despise the murder of Nick Berg. A murder that you sluff off as if it never happened. Or you blame Bush for his murder. I'm through trying to answer your stupid questions - because you ignor the facts when they're presented.

Oh- and your wedding party - turned out to have a stockpile of weapons, a large amount of cash and a number of passports with different names on them - same picture. I know it didn't come from Al-Jezera or Dan Rather, but you best not call our troops terrorists again.

[Skinsfan55]

Careful, this is not the smack forum Scooter, your title as a staff member does not give you license to be patently rude.

You obviously know nothing about my stance on the troops.

Of course I support the troops, I don't want them to be over there and getting killed! How much more supportive can you be? My best friend is a soldier in Iraq, so don't try to tell me how I feel about the troops.

The troops however have a problem, they are showing signs of their social roles... some of them are abusing their power as the "law" over there and committing murder, assault... crimes that in the states would be punished and punished severely. These troops were not properly trained to weild their power over there. As soldiers many of them excell, taking orders and fighting in combat is their specialty... not keeping the peace, which they are doing a miserable job of.

It's human nature, if someone is put in a position of nearly unlimited power over someone else with no guidance they will go to the edge, it's FACT and it's been proven in many experiements. Like it or not at this moment some of our soldiers are acting as bad as some of the terrorists. Does this mean the soldiers are bad people? No, it's human nature. The terrorists have no such excuse for their actions, they are fuled by hate, these soldiers are fuled by a power rush that they are not entirely to blame for.

Furthurmore, I don't think you need to be a moron to get duped by the President. Also, Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan right? See, you're not making a connection to anything I said... again.

Numerous sources are reporting the bombing of a wedding party, even pictures of people dressed in wedding attire, and small children (perhaps even the flower girl) gunned down. Where are the picutres of these "so called" weapons?

What about the raid on Ahmad Chalabi's home? The man is an ally, but he says something we don't like so we raid his home? We are not the secret police, we are better than this!

How can you possibly twist my words into saying that Nick Berg's murder didn't happen? I said it was a cowardly act, but how is it any less cowardly than OUR soldiers beating a defenseless prisoner to death? The Navy Seals delivered a prisoner to Abu Ghraib prison one day and soon after he is beaten to death... Forcing the prisoners to wear female underwear, then to wear it on their heads, then to make them pose in homosexual positions, then to threaten them with electrocution... then killing them. This is why the Stanford prison experiment was ended early! These soldiers are acting out their social roles to an extreme degree!

How are we any better than the terrorists we are fighting against? So far we are matching them move for move!

They kill thousands on 9/11, we take the fight to them and kill thousands of their people.

They kill a defenseless prisoner with a knife, we beat a defenseless prisoner to death.

They ambush us, we bring tanks and helicopters to them.

The FACTS and the EVIDENCE show that we've not "fighting the good fight" here. Something went wrong and it needs immediate correction.

[Texas Hog]

Oh- and your wedding party - turned out to have a stockpile of weapons, a large amount of cash and a number of passports with different names on them - same picture. I know it didn't come from Al-Jezera or Dan Rather, but you best not call our troops terrorists again.

I wanted to interject this, but what's the point. I am really trying to stay out of these ridiculous debates, but 55 is making it hard to do with his liberal drivel.

Of course I support the troops, I don't want them to be over there and getting killed!

None of us want them getting killed, but the one's of us that truly support our troops, support them being there, their efforts and the war, as well as the leaders, doing their best to protect our freedom and sovereignty.

[Redskins Rule]

Skins Fan....I take that back you are not incredibly left. I don't know what you are, but you have got some issues. Please don't take offense to that. You say that you are an American who supports his troops and yet you seem to bash our troops the first chance you get. You say that our troops murdered a prisoner? How do you know it was murder? Were you there? How do you know it wasn't him commiting suicide? Or another prisoner beating him down? How do you know it was Murder? Has the trial already happened and been over with? Has a jury found someone guilty of murder? HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS MURDER???

I don't understand, please explain how you know. I'm all ears to this one.

The Wedding Party Bombing was an accident. It wasn't on Purpose. Those terrorist who killed the innocent civilians on 9/11 did it on purpose. There is a difference between the two. SO DON'T BASH OUR TROOPS FOR MURDER ON THIS ONE!!!

The troops are showing a problem of "social roles"? One incident of abuse and you want to bash our troops. I don't get how you can say that your supportive and then bash them on the "murder" in prison, bash the pilots for the "murder" at the wedding party, and now bashing them for "social roles"? Please don't think one group of prison guards speaks for the whole military. I know they gave the military a bad image, but our military is full of very good people. AND STOP BASHING OUR MILITARY!!!!!

Now you are almost correct on taking the fight to them after 9/11. Actually you might be correct. We did take the fight to them. We took the fight to THEIR SOLDIERS!!! Maybe you meant to put that in there, but when you said:

They kill thousands on 9/11, we take the fight to them and kill thousands of their people.

I take that meaning civilian people. But maybe I'm wrong in my judgement of your words. I took it as civilian people because of your last line in your post:

The FACTS and the EVIDENCE show that we've not "fighting the good fight" here. Something went wrong and it needs immediate correction.

STOP BASHING OUR MILITARY!!!!!!

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

This is like a scene reject from the exceedingly over-hyped "Lord of the Rings."

That's it!!!! I can't take it anymore.

SMACK FORUM.... NOW!!!!


Just kidding. Big shout out to my boy BringThePain!

[BringThePain!]

anyone??

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

I saw a Frontline special where an Iraqi cab driver stole wood...

This reminds me, I need to make a trip to the vet. My dog is scratchin' a lot. I'm hoping the "special" lasts through the weekend. Does it beat the online prices for this stuff? (DOG OWNERS WILL GET THE JOKE)

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Going into Iraq we had to be flawless, we had to respect their culture while giving their own people time to formulate a government. We had to keep the badguys at bay and do our best to earn the begrudged respect of the Iraqi people.

A tea party?? Why didn't Bush think of that... that "warhawk".

And we have not come even close. Abusing prisoners by breaking them down by questioning their sexuality. Abusing prisoners through heavy handed interrogation tactics, one such instance resulting in a murder after which soldiers were shown gloating and celebrating over his corpse.

This is the only way to get results. Haven't you watched "24"? Sheesh!

These are the things that people will naturally do when they have power, and no clear cut purpose! It's so obvious!

Dude, I know what you mean, I used to work the AM shift at a gym, and people would line up at 4:45 AM to get in at 5:00AM (opening time). It was great ignoring and watching them squirm as I HELD THE POWER!!!!!! Gave me a huge rush.

[BringThePain!]

These are the things that people will naturally do when they have power, and no clear cut purpose! It's so obvious!

Dude, I know what you mean, I used to work the AM shift at a gym, and people would line up at 4:45 AM to get in at 5:00AM (opening time). It was great ignoring and watching them squirm as I HELD THE POWER!!!!!! Gave me a huge rush.

.... i wet my pants!