Dan and Vinny in a nutshell.

[SkinsSince96]

SkinsSince96 and Kilmer72,

Welcome to the board. Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at repeated mistakes by the Front Office around here. We have had this debate in many repeated ocasions. You will find many heated arguments about this dumb and dumber pair.

Just try a search under Snyder and you will find several threads dedicated to the incompetence of this pair. Incidentally, you will ALWAYS find the same defenders of these guys in those threads. Frankly, you are wasting your time ... until the next stupidity and then the whole thing comes back again to the top of the threads.

Who says snake oil does not sell well in the XXI century ? Just ask Snyder.

Thanks for the heads up my Redskin Brother. Ill talk Redskin football with anyone even if I dont agree with there point of view. Its not that I hate Dan Snyder. I think he is the perfect owner for the Washington Redskins. I just dont think he should have any say in the decision making process when it comes to adding players to our roster. Owners should not make decisions like this. If Snyder just sat back, wrote the checks, and was a fan from the comfort of his box at FedEx we would be alot better off.

Ill be the first one to say the moves I want the Skins to make arent always the best ones in the long run. Ive had some good opinions and some bad ones. Thats why fans watch the game and have opinions but the true football minds have jobs in the NFL.

[Kilmer72]

SkinsSince96 and Kilmer72,

Welcome to the board. Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at repeated mistakes by the Front Office around here. We have had this debate in many repeated ocasions. You will find many heated arguments about this dumb and dumber pair.

Just try a search under Snyder and you will find several threads dedicated to the incompetence of this pair. Incidentally, you will ALWAYS find the same defenders of these guys in those threads. Frankly, you are wasting your time ... until the next stupidity and then the whole thing comes back again to the top of the threads.

Who says snake oil does not sell well in the XXI century ? Just ask Snyder.

Well thank you for the welcome Redskin in Canada. I should probably just read and not say anything but ever since that Cutler thing I have been going crazy. It is a good thing that Dan isn't my neighbor. I would probably spray veg killer on half his lawn if he was. Its ok though I am starting to feel better about the whole thing. Lets see what happens and what we spend our picks on. Dan has time to redeem his self for this year.

[Cooter]

Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at repeated mistakes by the Front Office around here. We have had this debate in many repeated ocasions. You will find many heated arguments about this dumb and dumber pair.

Why are they wasting their time? I thought the whole point of an opinion is to express it regardless of opposition. When it comes to this topic there's no right or wrong (despite your opinion), but different schools of thought. Just because other people don't agree with your take on a subject, it doesn't mean you stop talking, but rather continue talks and maybe, just maybe, they'll hear something they haven't heard before.

Incidentally, you will ALWAYS find the same defenders of these guys in those threads.

Funny, I ALWAYS find the same haters of this so-called "dumb and dumber" pair.

Who says snake oil does not sell well in the XXI century ? Just ask Snyder.

Usually when I don't like something, I stop supporting it, but that's just me.

[SkinsFreak]

Cooter,

Welcome to the board. Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at any good decisions by the Front Office or showing any type of optimism, fan support or loyalty as a Redskins fan. We have had this debate on many repeated occasions. You will find many heated arguments about this topic. Whatever you do, never show any support or say anything positive about the Redskins... you'll be accused drinking the Kool-aid, blind homerism and being in love with Snyder.

Just try a search under Snyder and you will find several threads dedicated to the hatred of this pair, void of the rationalism or objectivity. Incidentally, you will ALWAYS find the same haters in those threads. Frankly, you are wasting your time ... the Redskins can never do any right, and when the next rumor surfaces, the whole thing comes back again to the top of the threads.

Who says hatred, ignorance and habitual negativity does not exist in the XXI century ? Just read these forums.

[SkinsFreak]

Its not that I hate Dan Snyder. I think he is the perfect owner for the Washington Redskins.

Really? Wow... So in the end, you've come to that conclusion after you started off by saying...

Let go of those mistakes? I could list ignorant decisions that Snyder has made every year since he bought this team except for when Gibbs was running it. I cant look forward if Snyders ignorance keeps slapping us fans in the face yearly.

Don't worry about that comment or conclusion, I understand completely. In hindsight, you recognize Snyder has made mistakes, as we ALL do. You recognize that all teams deal with mistakes and adversity (like Denver has been this offseason or like the Jags missing on three 1st rounders in recent years) and are willing to let those mistakes go and move on, because you're a fan of the 'team'. I understand completely and respect that.

[VetSkinsFan]

Cooter,

Welcome to the board. Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at any good decisions by the Front Office or showing any type of optimism, fan support or loyalty as a Redskins fan. We have had this debate on many repeated occasions. You will find many heated arguments about this topic. Whatever you do, never show any support or say anything positive about the Redskins... you'll be accused drinking the Kool-aid, blind homerism and being in love with Snyder.

Just try a search under Snyder and you will find several threads dedicated to the hatred of this pair, void of the rationalism or objectivity. Incidentally, you will ALWAYS find the same haters in those threads. Frankly, you are wasting your time ... the Redskins can never do any right, and when the next rumor surfaces, the whole thing comes back again to the top of the threads.

Who says hatred, ignorance and habitual negativity does not exist in the XXI century ? Just read these forums.

Not all of us want to sit in a cess pool of negativity. I always look cautiously optimistic to the next season.

I'm not one of those blind fanatics either. And yes, I get frustrated and vent. In the example of JC, I don't think he's the answer here in this fast paced system, but if and when he's named the starter for week 1, I'm not going ot doom and gloom for 17 weeks and jump on the negativity bandwagon. We have a good group of players and the potential is out there.

[Fios]

SkinsSince96 and Kilmer72,

Welcome to the board. Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at repeated mistakes by the Front Office around here. We have had this debate in many repeated ocasions. You will find many heated arguments about this dumb and dumber pair.

Just try a search under Snyder and you will find several threads dedicated to the incompetence of this pair. Incidentally, you will ALWAYS find the same defenders of these guys in those threads. Frankly, you are wasting your time ... until the next stupidity and then the whole thing comes back again to the top of the threads.

Who says snake oil does not sell well in the XXI century ? Just ask Snyder.

This is one of the worst posts I've read in some time ... but why bother with nuance and facts when you can just paint it as an us versus them scenario?

[(d)oink]

I am probably hanging myself out to dry here but I think Synder gets a raw deal on this board.

I have mixed feelings on this. I do like Snyder from the standpoint that he tries to win no matter what the cost. He is a Redskin fan like the rest of us and he wants a 4th Lombardi so bad he can taste it.

The problem I have with Snyder is based off of why I like him. If im the Skins owner and I make deal after deal move after move and the Skins dont win id say to myself "damn maybe I should hire a GM because thats the one thing the Skins need and I want them to win more then anything".

If anyone thinks for one minute Cerrato is really running this teams moves id honestly LMFAO into a coma. Im not going to lie I loved the Chad Johnson possible trade last year and I loved trading a 2nd for Jason Taylor. This is why fans shouldnt be there teams GM. Snyder needs to stand back and realize my God im hurting the team I love more than im helping it.

Snyder bought the team and made some rookie mistakes, no doubt. He and Vinny have spoken openly and candidly about those past mistakes, from the standpoint of recognition and learning from those mistakes. Unfortunately, some folks just can't seem to let go of those mistakes, look forward instead of looking back, or let Snyder live them down. Always the armchair GM, it's inevitable around here.

You say Snyder should say to himself... "damn. maybe I should hire a GM." For about the millionth time around here, let's refresh our memories. Snyder brought back Joe Gibbs almost six years ago. Does anyone remember that? He brought back the home town hero, the man that brought three Lombardi trophies to D.C., and made him the Head Coach / Team President. Remember that? That is, in effect, hiring a manager to guide the team, regardless of title. Only an ignorant fool would assert that Snyder didn't give the Hall of Fame, home town hero and 3-time Super Bowl winning coach full control of the decision making process and direction of the organization, at the time.

After four years and two playoff appearances, Gibbs retired. Anyone remember that? And for the record, Gibbs did leave his mark on this franchise during his second stint. Although he failed to win another Super Bowl, he brought some respectability back to the organization and accountability into the locker room. So, in fact, Snyder did bring someone in to help guide the team and steer the ship. But Gibbs retired and Snyder was subsequently forced to hire a new coach. That wasn't "the same old Snyder", Gibbs retired.

I know Zorn only went 8-8 in his first season as the head coach in the NFC East. I also know the armchair GM's are out in full force ready for a lynching and prepared to find a new head coach... once again. Hopefully Snyder stays the course paved by Gibbs and ignores these armchair fools. Since Gibbs retired, Snyder has assembled a pretty darn good staff and team, with Gibbs' endorsement, I might add, and if anyone thinks one year into a new staff is enough time to accurately evaluate the full potential, well... what can you say... except, armchair fools they are.

Vinny and his staff did a pretty good job last offseason and so far they've done pretty good this offseason, which to date, has been to sign two younger players that fill major holes on our offensive and defensive lines, two areas ignored in the past and under the old Snyder. The rest has merely been due diligence to evaluate every possible angle or potential scenario, which is just good business, regardless of the rumorville that some fans so easily get so caught up in. One could easily argue that Zorn's first year was better than the previous four under Gibbs. But we all know Gibbs laid the groundwork for that. Point is, give Zorn a chance.

If I was smarter and could type with all ten fingers, I might have said this. Anyway, I agree with it entirely.

[SkinsSince96]

Cooter,

Welcome to the board. Sorry but you are wasting your time pointing at any good decisions by the Front Office or showing any type of optimism, fan support or loyalty as a Redskins fan.

Do you know how ignorant your post sounds with a statement like that? Thats got to be the dumbest thing ive heard anyone say about a Redskin fan ever. You actually think because some Redskin fans dont like the owner of this team we arent as loyal?

Its not that I hate Dan Snyder. I think he is the perfect owner for the Washington Redskins.

Really? Wow... So in the end, you've come to that conclusion after you started off by saying...

Let go of those mistakes? I could list ignorant decisions that Snyder has made every year since he bought this team except for when Gibbs was running it. I cant look forward if Snyders ignorance keeps slapping us fans in the face yearly.

Don't worry about that comment or conclusion, I understand completely. In hindsight, you recognize Snyder has made mistakes, as we ALL do. You recognize that all teams deal with mistakes and adversity (like Denver has been this offseason or like the Jags missing on three 1st rounders in recent years) and are willing to let those mistakes go and move on, because you're a fan of the 'team'. I understand completely and respect that.

If Dan Snyder wasnt ruining this team by making the dumbest decisions ive ever seen he would be the perfect owner. How do you not understand my comment? He is a great fan and he spends what he needs to win. The problem is he spends his money on players that are either overrated or flat out suck. No owner should make roster based decisions. If he didnt do that hes the perfect owner. Theres a reason that we won the division title the first year Snyder owned the team. Thats because he bought the team so late he couldnt mess it up.

Just in case you need a lasson on Snyder and why most Redskin fans hate him heres a recap.....

1999 - Hired Vinny Cerrato

2000 - Signed Jeff George, signed Bruce Smith, signed Deion Sanders, signed Mark Carrier, fired Norv Turner with 3 games to go in the season and a 7-6 record, finished the season at 8-8.

2001 - Let Brad Johnson sign with the Bucs in favor of Jeff George, Fired Marty Schottenheimer after he won 8 of his last 11 games to finish 2001 at 8-8.

2002 - Re-hired Vinny Cerrato, Hired Steve Spurrier, let Spurrier sign a cast of Florida Gator trash, signed Jeremiah Trotter, signed Jessie Armstead.

2003 - Drafted Taylor Jacobs, took away Spurriers power on roster decisions right before the season started which caused a major rift.

2007 - Hired Jim Zorn, tried to trade two 1st round picks for Chad Johnson, drafted Fred Davis when we already have a Pro Bowl TE in Chris ey, drafted Malcolm Kelly after everyone knew he had knee problems, traded 2nd and 6th round picks for Jason Taylor.

2008 - Signed Albert Haynesworth to the most ignorant deal in free agent history, overpaid for DeAngelo Hall who busted in Oakland after signing a huge contract and then played half of a season wtih the Skins, tried to trade Jason Campbell and god only knows who else for Jay Cutler, failed to land Cutler and upset the QB who is here.

I cant wait to see how this franchise screws up the draft this year. Im guessing they trade up and draft a QB when they only have 5 picks in this years draft and too many holes to even count.

I hate when Skins fans try to question other Skins fans love for this team. If ive stuck through everything Snyder has done since he bought this team I dont think I should have to defend why I think he sucks.

[El Mexican]

Sometimes you hurt the things you love the most.

Case in point: why would Snyder try to get Cutler from the Broncos? Obvioulsy because his wants his team to have the best chqnce to win.

Now is that the most rational thing to do when the team has, in fact, a former first round draft pick that needs all the support from his FO to feel confident? No.

And that is why every year we have these discussions...

[Cooter]

I think he is the perfect owner for the Washington Redskins.

If Dan Snyder wasnt ruining this team by making the dumbest decisions ive ever seen he would be the perfect owner.

Funny

[DEHog]

He is a great fan and he spends what he needs to win.

Didn't take long for this statement to come up....Again for the millionth time if being a fan and spending money were akin to winning we'd put another trophy in the case already!

[SkinsJock]

I think he is the perfect owner for the Washington Redskins.

If Dan Snyder wasnt ruining this team by making the dumbest decisions ive ever seen he would be the perfect owner.

Funny

Maybe "Funny" to you but a Fact to many of us

As many here know I am also a supporter of Snyder as owner, but, I am (like a few here) also very disapointed in what has happened since he bought the team.

I understand what SkinsFreak is saying about the critics who constantly point to the mistakes of the past but that is the reality - the fact remains that as I consider the future I cannot actually say it looks like we are going to win this division in the near future and that is primarily because of what Snyder has done in the past that's why we point to the mistakes.

we all want to look forward but we also should be cogniscant of how and why we are in the shape we're in NOW - it's mainly because of these 2 goofs.

I know that last year's draft may work out for us and that is great BUT Snyder almost gave away 2 #1 picks for Cutler - that was almost another huge blunder IMO - I think Cutler is a great QB and I would love to have him but I also want the supporting cast around him - having a future great QB with no weapons is not nearly as good as having a future great QB with a great offensive line and all the other parts to ensure that the future great QB can do his job.

We also just started with Zorn as our HC - based on what I've seen from Snyder can you blame some of us for being concerned that this guy (who might develop into a great HC) will be out of here if we don't do better this year that's another blunder waiting to happen - the problem is not that Snyder is a bad owner - he just does not have the patience to give anything the time necessary to become successful.
This is not the business world that Snyder seems to be so good in, this is the NFL and we should have NFL guys making the big decisions.

I agre that Gibbs helped but suddenly we seem to get away from what he started to build back up here.

We are better off for getting Haynesworth but we cannot suddenly risk our future by losing valuable draft picks when we have so many needs - Snyder acts like we are just a superstar or 2 away from being a good team - we are years away from being consistant winners, mainly because of him and he should be learning from those errors.

[Cooter]

Maybe "Funny" to you but a Fact to many of us

I guess you missed the funny contradiction.

[Kilmer72]

I think he is the perfect owner for the Washington Redskins.

If Dan Snyder wasnt ruining this team by making the dumbest decisions ive ever seen he would be the perfect owner.

Funny

Maybe "Funny" to you but a Fact to many of us

As many here know I am also a supporter of Snyder as owner, but, I am (like a few here) also very disapointed in what has happened since he bought the team.

I understand what SkinsFreak is saying about the critics who constantly point to the mistakes of the past but that is the reality - the fact remains that as I consider the future I cannot actually say it looks like we are going to win this division in the near future and that is primarily because of what Snyder has done in the past that's why we point to the mistakes.

we all want to look forward but we also should be cogniscant of how and why we are in the shape we're in NOW - it's mainly because of these 2 goofs.

I know that last year's draft may work out for us and that is great BUT Snyder almost gave away 2 #1 picks for Cutler - that was almost another huge blunder IMO - I think Cutler is a great QB and I would love to have him but I also want the supporting cast around him - having a future great QB with no weapons is not nearly as good as having a future great QB with a great offensive line and all the other parts to ensure that the future great QB can do his job.

We also just started with Zorn as our HC - based on what I've seen from Snyder can you blame some of us for being concerned that this guy (who might develop into a great HC) will be out of here if we don't do better this year that's another blunder waiting to happen - the problem is not that Snyder is a bad owner - he just does not have the patience to give anything the time necessary to become successful.
This is not the business world that Snyder seems to be so good in, this is the NFL and we should have NFL guys making the big decisions.

I agre that Gibbs helped but suddenly we seem to get away from what he started to build back up here.

We are better off for getting Haynesworth but we cannot suddenly risk our future by losing valuable draft picks when we have so many needs - Snyder acts like we are just a superstar or 2 away from being a good team - we are years away from being consistant winners, mainly because of him and he should be learning from those errors.

Very well put

[SkinsJock]

Maybe "Funny" to you but a Fact to many of us

I guess you missed the funny contradiction.

no worries - I did not mean it to come off negatively 

This Snyder topic is overstated here a lot and I feel that some take it that criticism of Snyder's 'way' of running a team is "anti" Redskins 

"Funny" is that "running" and 'ruining' are so close 

I wish I owned the Redskins  - Snyder is living in a fantasy world and while I was envious (well, a little) I thought that with the re-hiring of Gibbs and the changes that were happening, that he (Snyder) was going to be different - seems like the same old Snyder is back to trying to buy a "team" again - we can discuss the merits of adding Haynesworth but it seems clear to me that we tried pretty hard to get Cutler and while I think he's an upgrade I do not understand the rational behind the fact that we were trying to give up 2 #1 picks for him. 

[Deadskins]

This is what I think of the two tards running the front office

Why in French? At least I think it is.

[sarcasm]Because it makes the "humor" so much more sophisticated. [/sarcasm]

Yeah, on the Jerry Lewis level.

[Deadskins]

The problem is Snyder thinks he knows everything and it hurts our team...

I think Vinny did a terrible job last offseason. The draft last year is a perfect example. Im all for giving Zorn a chance but I dont think you realize that everything Gibbs laid out for this team is being destroyed by Dan Snyder.

???
How?
I don't believe for a minute that The Danny is making these decisions on his own. I think he asks Cerrato and the coaches who they want, and then he goes out and makes it happen. The Danny is not making football player decisions, just their contracts work under the salary cap.

Also, why do you think last year's off-season/draft is a perfect example of Vinny destroying everything Gibbs laid out for the team? Except the punter we eventually cut, what bad moves do you think we made as a team in the off-season/draft? Are you referring to the Taylor trade? I don't see that as destroying the team, though in hindsight it was not a very good deal. I think with the exception of that deal, we had an excellent off-season last year, and are having a very good one so far this year.

[Deadskins]

2008 - Signed Albert Haynesworth to the most ignorant deal in free agent history

Do you say this because you think it is a seven year deal for $100 million?
It's not you know? It is a 4 year deal for $52 million that has injury outs written into it. Not a bad deal at all, and certainly not the most ignorant in FA history. I too think they overpaid for Hall. He wanted to be a Redskin, and we could have signed him for less, but it was still a market value deal, and not totally invalid, as we were losing Springs.

[CanesSkins26]

Except the punter we eventually cut, what bad moves do you think we made as a team in the off-season/draft? Are you referring to the Taylor trade? I don't see that as destroying the team, though in hindsight it was not a very good deal. I think with the exception of that deal, we had an excellent off-season last year, and are having a very good one so far this year.

That trade cost us two draft picks. That alone made it a very questionable offseason. Add in the trade for James, which cost us another pick, and we spent 3 draft picks for 3.5 sacks. That is terrible.

[fleetus]

Fat Albert is a good player but Danny/Vinny overpaid for him. I just hope he puts out 100% and not lay down after getting the big money.

the thing everyone will be quick to overlook is, when you pay a guy 40 MIL guaranteed, that is money for him to anchor your team for years and years. Haynesworth may play hard for a few games or even for 10-15 games. But will he be here down the stretch play in play out? Doubt it. When he starts taking plays off, will the rookie DE next to him ease up too? I mean, hey, if I make $500k and the guy next to me is the superstar veteran making 7 mil, I'm gonna follow his lead. Will Albert be here in the off-season conditioning program? Will he show up next season in shape when much of this attention and criticism has waned? These are questions about a man's character. Something that doesn't usually change all that much over time. We don't ever ask these questions about London Fletcher. Pencil his name in for 100% every play. but regarding Albert? He will HAVE to prove it to me. Because the house bet says he will not deliver on the level that he was paid to.

[Deadskins]

Will Albert be here in the off-season conditioning program? Will he show up next season in shape when much of this attention and criticism has waned?

It's in his contract, so I would say the answer is yes.

[Scottskins]

while Snyder is a little too Jerry Jones for me, and it has been too damn long since we even sniffed a superbowl, I always have to remember back to when we were dangerously close to John Kent Cooke taking over the reins and what a scary thought that would have been.

I love Dan Snyder the owner. He loves the redskins. That's the most important part as far as I am concerned. I've always thought Vinny was the problem and I still do. Dan needs to get rid of Vinny(the whispering snake in his ear) and hire a GM. The GM and the coach should be the two people who make all the decisions(aside from money) and Dan should let them run the product that he puts on the field.

and would somebody please tell the redskins that you build a team through the draft and through the offensive and defensive lines please!

man I wish Gibbs woulda stuck around...

[RedskinsFreak]

I love Dan Snyder the owner. He loves the redskins. That's the most important part as far as I am concerned.

So do I.

If only that were as far as it went.

But I hate Dan Snyder the still-trying-to-be talent evaluator, de facto GM, and otherwise unchallenged big cheese of the football operation. (Yes, even when Gibbs was here)

He fails miserably at this. He also fails by not seeing just how much of a fustercluck things are here and stepping aside. Do the owner things. But, to use a NASCAR analogy, stay the hell out of the garage and off the pit box on race day. Let qualified people build/fix/race the car.

[tcwest10]

'Dan and Vinny in a nutshell'...an appropriate container for them.