Does Our Offense Suck?

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:51 pm

The answer to your question is yes. It sucks

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:52 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
riggofan wrote:
Gibbs4Life wrote:
Next year, we can spend a no. one pick on a QB.

Does Colt Brennan not deserve a go?

Yeah. God knows he lit it up in the fourth quarter of preseason games last summer.

Seriously the Colt stuff is just ridiculous. Do people honestly believe that former NFL quarterback Jim Zorn would look at three QBs on his roster and not field the best one? You have to be smoking crack.

And how does anyone know what Brennan's potential is without seeing him on the field? You can speculate all you want, but you can't prove jack.

I agree. From what I saw last preseason, Colt seemed to have a winning QB's mentality.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:00 pm

yupchagee wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
riggofan wrote:
Gibbs4Life wrote:
Next year, we can spend a no. one pick on a QB.

Does Colt Brennan not deserve a go?

Yeah. God knows he lit it up in the fourth quarter of preseason games last summer.

Seriously the Colt stuff is just ridiculous. Do people honestly believe that former NFL quarterback Jim Zorn would look at three QBs on his roster and not field the best one? You have to be smoking crack.

And how does anyone know what Brennan's potential is without seeing him on the field? You can speculate all you want, but you can't prove jack.

I agree. From what I saw last preseason, Colt seemed to have a winning QB's mentality.

Clearly, Colt has the fire in the belly. The question is... has he learned enough to be an NFL quarterback?

We may find out.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:21 pm

Gibbs4Life wrote:So basically we waisted our O-lineman's best years on Mark Brunell.

ey had 1 td and that boggles my mind. All those times we were in
the red zone, on the goal line and ey gets 1 td?

The last person I'd blame for that is Cool

ey, and, absolutely yes, Gibbs wasted our O-line and put at least a six-year hurtin' on us. It makes me want to retch when I hear that Gibbs left us a solid foundation for the future.
He and Spurier, together, were wildly destructive.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:29 pm

Gibbs4Life wrote:
Next year, we can spend a no. one pick on a QB.

Does Colt Brennan not deserve a go?

We need a no. 1 pick at QB. Colt Brennan is a longshot. JC will tank this year, in my opinion, and we'd be nuts to go with Brennan in 2010 on pre-season performances alone. To keep us from needing a QB at round one next year, Brennan would have to take over for Campbell in 2009 and show real class for a good part of the season.

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:42 pm

The positive thing about Campbell is in order for him to become a championship QB he has to become a scrambling threat and he did flash some nice 20 yrd gains even if he never slides. We know he has the arm. And he was the least intercepted QB in the league. A strong OL and improved WR play (rookies no more) will go a long way to get JCam that huge contract he's playing for this year.

Having said that, Colt Brennan has done nothing but shine in every opportunity he's been given...he can't torch 1st stringers until he's sent in against them. He is the ALL TIME LEADING PASSER IN NCAA HISTORY.
I don't care what system he was in, you can't throw that many touchdowns without being exceptional. If Campbell struggles over 5 games we might go to the kid.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:08 pm

Gibbs4Life wrote:The positive thing about Campbell is in order for him to become a championship QB he has to become a scrambling threat and he did flash some nice 20 yrd gains even if he never slides. We know he has the arm. And he was the least intercepted QB in the league. A strong OL and improved WR play (rookies no more) will go a long way to get JCam that huge contract he's playing for this year.

Having said that, Colt Brennan has done nothing but shine in every opportunity he's been given...he can't torch 1st stringers until he's sent in against them. He is the ALL TIME LEADING PASSER IN NCAA HISTORY.
I don't care what system he was in, you can't throw that many touchdowns without being exceptional. If Campbell struggles over 5 games we might go to the kid.

Go Colt go....

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:34 am

He is the ALL TIME LEADING PASSER IN NCAA HISTORY.

Actually he isn't. That would be Timmy Chang, another product of the Hawaii run-and-shoot offense. How did he do in the NFL?

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:49 am

Gibbs4Life wrote:The positive thing about Campbell is in order for him to become a championship QB he has to become a scrambling threat and he did flash some nice 20 yrd gains even if he never slides. We know he has the arm. And he was the least intercepted QB in the league. A strong OL and improved WR play (rookies no more) will go a long way to get JCam that huge contract he's playing for this year.

Having said that, Colt Brennan has done nothing but shine in every opportunity he's been given...he can't torch 1st stringers until he's sent in against them.

I agree with everything quoted above. BTW, did you realize if Brennan was a 4 year starter, his average would have put him ~18500 yards? Irrelavent, I know, but still impressive for college stats.

If JC can't adapt to the speed and complexity of the NFL, then why not give Colt a chance? If Colt goes in and it's not b/c JC's hurt, then we've given JC 2-3 years. Why not give Colt that same chance? He can be a bust just as good as any 1st round pick. QBs are hte hardest to judge due to the many external vairables that affect their overall play. I'm not saying bench JC, but give Colt the chance if he shows he has potential.

I see the connection between run and shoot QBs and failure in the NFL, but why condemn Brennan before he's even stepped on the field? He's passed all hurdles that he's been given. Do you just stop challenging someone when they're still succeeding? I certainly hope personal lives aren't run this way...

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:04 am

Gibbs4Life wrote: Having said that, Colt Brennan has done nothing but shine in every opportunity he's been given...he can't torch 1st stringers until he's sent in against them. He is the ALL TIME LEADING PASSER IN NCAA HISTORY.
I don't care what system he was in, you can't throw that many touchdowns without being exceptional. If Campbell struggles over 5 games we might go to the kid.

Jimmy Terwilliger of that powerhouse East Stroudsburg holds the NCAA record for most passing TDs in a career. Quick, let's pick him up!

Not to mention that Graham Harrell of Texas Tech, has more career passing TDs than Brennan. He's available in the draft. Let's get him, too!

I mean, I know that scouts say:

Others were good college quarterbacks who simply are not cut out for the pro game, such as Texas Tech's Graham Harrell and Missouri's Chase Daniel. Sure, they threw for a combined 9,446 yards last season, but the transition to life in the NFL for these shotgun/spread-formation gunslingers should prove rather daunting.

But you can't throw that many TDs (45 last year!!!!) without being exceptional!

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:24 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
Gibbs4Life wrote: Having said that, Colt Brennan has done nothing but shine in every opportunity he's been given...he can't torch 1st stringers until he's sent in against them. He is the ALL TIME LEADING PASSER IN NCAA HISTORY.
I don't care what system he was in, you can't throw that many touchdowns without being exceptional. If Campbell struggles over 5 games we might go to the kid.

Jimmy Terwilliger of that powerhouse East Stroudsburg holds the NCAA record for most passing TDs in a career. Quick, let's pick him up!

Not to mention that Graham Harrell of Texas Tech, has more career passing TDs than Brennan. He's available in the draft. Let's get him, too!

I mean, I know that scouts say:

Others were good college quarterbacks who simply are not cut out for the pro game, such as Texas Tech's Graham Harrell and Missouri's Chase Daniel. Sure, they threw for a combined 9,446 yards last season, but the transition to life in the NFL for these shotgun/spread-formation gunslingers should prove rather daunting.

But you can't throw that many TDs (45 last year!!!!) without being exceptional!

Just b/c he was in a shotgun/spread/runNshoot/wtfever non pro style offense does not necessarily prove that he positively cannot cut it. All I'm saying is give him enough rope, he'll save himself or hang himself. What can it hurt? It's not like we're benching brady or peyton for an unknown.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:01 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:Just b/c he was in a shotgun/spread/runNshoot/wtfever non pro style offense does not necessarily prove that he positively cannot cut it. All I'm saying is give him enough rope, he'll save himself or hang himself. What can it hurt? It's not like we're benching brady or peyton for an unknown.

You're right in a way; however, gimmick-system QBs haven't gone on to a whole lot of success in the NFL on the whole (in fact, I can't think of a guy from a system like Texas Tech or Hawaii who HAS succeeded in the NFL).

However, in the end, it's really up to the coaches, they see these guys every day in practice. If they feel that Colt doesn't give the Redskins the best chance to win...he won't play. Pretty obviously, they felt Campbell was the best choice last year.

We really don't know how Colt did over the course of last year. We all know he did pretty well in the meaningless 4th quarter of the meaningless first preseason game, but that's really not a lot overall. Again, I still remember Danny Wuerffle destroying teams in the preseason.

prinzeofmoval · Post by **prinzeofmoval** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:28 pm

we dont suck as much as we are too predictable..its like playing madden on the rookie level. We need to take more chance and be more unpredictable like earlier this season we we went for it on 4th down with the slant to win the game and run out the clock. More plays like that and defensives can't cheat with 8 in the box all the time.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:23 pm

PulpExposure wrote:We really don't know how Colt did over the course of last year. We all know he did pretty well in the meaningless 4th quarter of the meaningless first preseason game, but that's really not a lot overall. Again, I still remember Danny Wuerffle destroying teams in the preseason.

Many people feel that we know what we're going to get out of Jason and that he won't really improve. They're simply ready to move and see if Colt is the answer, if he's not, we need to get someone else in. Offensive production has held us back for so long and we've had very decent defenses, people are tired of waiting.

TincoSkin · Post by **TincoSkin** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:40 pm

i AM tired of waiting.

JC has been in several different offences and for that he should be given some slack.

BUT, every year CP gives us the opportunity to spread the field, you know, run run run opens up the vertical game. the ability to exploit that falls at the feet of the qb.

every team comes into a redskins game thinking, all we have to do is shut down the running game. that is where their focus always is giving jason a huge opportunity to pass down field.

but its not there. santana is faasssst oh lordy hes fast. so to all those who say we have no speed youre wrong, we have one of the fastest guys in the league.

we have cooley! big guy, gets yards after catch. so to all those who say we dont have that ability to get YAC, youre wrong.

we have AR as a slot guy, not the biggest so all you who say we dont have a prototypical SIZE guy you might have a point. (though now we have two young guns who might fit the bill)

a great qb can get the ball to good and poor recievers regardless of who they are. brady throws to so so guys all the time and they get let go only to fail with other qbs (see D. patton).

our offence is stuck because of an average qb who doesnt take charge, who doesnt take risk, who (is stuck behind an aging O line). and who waits instead of acting.

summery. CP opens the door, our weapons are there, our qb cant or wont get them the ball.

one more year. a chance to get a season under his belt with the new offence. then thats it.

if JC cant show us why we drafted him with our first pick then he never will.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:22 pm

I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:21 pm

brad7686 wrote:I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

B/C if JC can't read the D and the coverage, then he can't make the best play.

Wahoo McDaniels · Post by **Wahoo McDaniels** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:41 pm

I think Renaldo's a great influence on the team from a leadership aspect, but we can't be expecting to get anything on the field out of him.

I reiterate, we are the only team in the NFL who can spend $100M on the DL and still not be able to generate a pass rush.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:23 pm

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:I think Renaldo's a great influence on the team from a leadership aspect, but we can't be expecting to get anything on the field out of him.

I reiterate, we are the only team in the NFL who can spend $100M on the DL and still not be able to generate a pass rush.

I'm guessing this was meant for the Renaldo Wynn thread

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:59 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
brad7686 wrote:I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

B/C if JC can't read the D and the coverage, then he can't make the best play.

I think you're both right about this offense.

We have many needs:
A true #1 WR - Moss is a great #2 and we just have to hope that Thomas is going to show the potential that we think he has. If Kelly also works out we will have good depth at this position.
An aging line - we not only need younger players - it always seems to take a while for offensive lineman to gel and we have some real issues with these guys both for now and for the near future. Offensive lines are very tricky to get just right - defensive lineman do not need near the amount of chemistry to apply pressure and stop the run as a good offensive line in both the passing and running game.

As Brad pointed out - it really is not going to matter if Campbell is not the great QB we all hope he is - a good QB is OK but everyone knows that the key is to find a really good QB and I am worried that he just does not have the talent to become as good as we need.

I am well aware that Zorn's play calling and our line were big keys to our offensive woes and it is going to take some time to be good again - I don't want a QB like Eli manning who is perceved as being good enough by many - to me he is not that good a QB and I think we will see that over time - he was very lucky to be a part of a winning team but let's see him get them back there before anyone says he's a great QB, he's not.

Campbell was selected by Gibbs and Zorn thought he looked good last year - well, he had Portis getting all sorts of yards and we still were lucky to be 6-2 in the first 8 games and ended up as a very low scoring offense - we need a lot more from our QB

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:51 am

in response to the title, YES. Our O sucks.

ChocolateMilk · Post by **ChocolateMilk** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:09 am

SKINFAN wrote:in response to the title, YES. Our O sucks.

hah it could definently be better

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:37 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
brad7686 wrote:I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

B/C if JC can't read the D and the coverage, then he can't make the best play.

Right, but thats JC related. I'm talkin WR. Obviously, JC reading the defense affects the WR's. But the WR's being mediocre also affects JC.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:30 am

brad7686 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
brad7686 wrote:I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

B/C if JC can't read the D and the coverage, then he can't make the best play.

Right, but thats JC related. I'm talkin WR. Obviously, JC reading the defense affects the WR's. But the WR's being mediocre also affects JC.

WR effectiveness was directly affected by the lack of downfield threat. It didn't help that they dropped passes that they should have caught. I agree that we need a #1 WR, and I'm hoping that one of the two tall receivers, at the least, step up. I have no problem giving these guys a chance. If JC can get 3 (2 1/2 years actually) years, why can't receivers get 2 years?

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:06 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
brad7686 wrote:I don't disagree with people knocking Campbell, but I don't see why their aren't twice as many threads about how bad the WR's are. Unless everyone thinks Kelly and Thomas will pan out. Our best receivers are smaller than most corners. How are they going to win jump balls? How are they going to escape press coverage? Not to mention they can't catch anyway.

B/C if JC can't read the D and the coverage, then he can't make the best play.

Right, but thats JC related. I'm talkin WR. Obviously, JC reading the defense affects the WR's. But the WR's being mediocre also affects JC.

WR effectiveness was directly affected by the lack of downfield threat. It didn't help that they dropped passes that they should have caught. I agree that we need a #1 WR, and I'm hoping that one of the two tall receivers, at the least, step up. I have no problem giving these guys a chance. If JC can get 3 (2 1/2 years actually) years, why can't receivers get 2 years?

Yea they should be given a chance. I just worry about Kelly's health, it doesn't look real promising.