Snyder's greed

[SkinsJock]

These are the facts:

Snyder owns the team and since acquiring the team he has tried to make the team better.
Despite hiring different coaches and acquiring many free agent players that he felt would help the team get 'better', this team's record is "mediocre" at best.

I have made excuses for his actions in the past and thought he and the FO were on a path of "looking to the future." That is, until recently - I understand that he wants to make the team better but I have to say that in order to accomplish that he needs to accept the fact that he and the current Redskin's FO need to accept that they really do not understand how to build a successful franchise.

I understand that Snyder 'owns' the Washington Redskins but he also needs to understand that with that 'ownership' comes a responsibility to all of us and that includes letting NFL people run 'our' team because he and the current FO has no clue about how to do that - this should be clear to everybody by now

like the ad says - "that was easy" if you can't see that! - you can't see

[DEHog]

These are the facts:

Snyder owns the team and since acquiring the team he has tried to make the team better.
Despite hiring different coaches and acquiring many free agent players that he felt would help the team get 'better', this team's record is "mediocre" at best.

I have made excuses for his actions in the past and thought he and the FO were on a path of "looking to the future." That is, until recently - I understand that he wants to make the team better but I have to say that in order to accomplish that he needs to accept the fact that he and the current Redskin's FO need to accept that they really do not understand how to build a successful franchise.

I understand that Snyder 'owns' the Washington Redskins but he also needs to understand that with that 'ownership' comes a responsibility to all of us and that includes letting NFL people run 'our' team because he and the current FO has no clue about how to do that - this should be clear to everybody by now

like the ad says - "that was easy" if you can't see that! - you can't see

I got this one guys..

People who are in a state of disgust and panic over the franchise need a scapegoat. So they go after the one guy in the organization who is a huge Redskins fan and who spends hundred of millions of his own money to improve the team.

[SkinsFreak]

I understand that Snyder 'owns' the Washington Redskins but he also needs to understand that with that 'ownership' comes a responsibility to all of us and that includes letting NFL people run 'our' team

Umm, you may not like Vinny, Eric Schaffer, Scott Campbell, Zorn, Blache, Bugel, Sherman Smith, Stump Mitchell, Louis Riddick and Don Warren, but those guys ARE NFL people. Even Gibbs said on multiple occasions that Snyder doesn't sit in on player acquisition meetings, film study or scouting meetings. If you or RiC has proof otherwise, show it. I'll take Gibbs at his word and give him the benefit of the doubt. Snyder owns the team and signs the checks, so like every owner in every sport, of course he's going to have some level of involvement. But to suggest he's not utilizing the NFL people on his staff and at his disposal is ridiculous.

Yeah, when Gibbs was the coach and team president, (you know, a NFL person) I'm quite sure Snyder told Gibbs to take his ideas, game plans, draft choices and free agent desires and go screw himself, because "the Danny" is calling the shots, and his expertise and experience trumps all, including Gibbs'. Yeah, I'm sure that's how it went.

[DEHog]

I understand that Snyder 'owns' the Washington Redskins but he also needs to understand that with that 'ownership' comes a responsibility to all of us and that includes letting NFL people run 'our' team

Umm, you may not like Vinny, Eric Schaffer, Scott Campbell, Zorn, Blache, Bugel, Sherman Smith, Stump Mitchell, Louis Riddick and Don Warren, but those guys ARE NFL people. Even Gibbs said on multiple occasions that Snyder doesn't sit in on player acquisition meetings, film study or scouting meetings. If you or RiC has proof otherwise, show it. I'll take Gibbs at his word and give him the benefit of the doubt. Snyder owns the team and signs the checks, so like every owner in every sport, of course he's going to have some level of involvement. But to suggest he's not utilizing the NFL people on his staff and at his disposal is ridiculous.

Yeah, when Gibbs was the coach and team president, (you know, a NFL person) I'm quite sure Snyder told Gibbs to take his ideas, game plans, draft choices and free agent desires and go screw himself, because "the Danny" is calling the shots, and his expertise and experience trumps all, including Gibbs'. Yeah, I'm sure that's how it went.

I do believe Snyder gave control to Gibbs...that's why we went to the playoffs in 2 out of the 4 years he was here. I give Snyder credit for bringing Gibbs back...but I believe we are back on his watch. Vinny a football guy?? I see no one wanted his sevices when Marty fired him. You will never convinced me that Vinng is more than a puppet to try and quiet the calls from those of us who want a real GM in place...sorry.
I'm begining to believe that Snyder and Jones made one of those $1 bets like in the movie Trading Places to see which one of them could win a SB first by picking their own players.

[Redskin in Canada]

These are the facts:

Snyder owns the team and since acquiring the team he has tried to make the team better.
Despite hiring different coaches and acquiring many free agent players that he felt would help the team get 'better', this team's record is "mediocre" at best.

I have made excuses for his actions in the past and thought he and the FO were on a path of "looking to the future." That is, until recently - I understand that he wants to make the team better but I have to say that in order to accomplish that he needs to accept the fact that he and the current Redskin's FO need to accept that they really do not understand how to build a successful franchise.

I understand that Snyder 'owns' the Washington Redskins but he also needs to understand that with that 'ownership' comes a responsibility to all of us and that includes letting NFL people run 'our' team because he and the current FO has no clue about how to do that - this should be clear to everybody by now

like the ad says - "that was easy" if you can't see that! - you can't see

Be careful, if you go on this path with me, it does not matter how moderate and well worded your posts might be, you will be walking into ridicule attempts by those on the other side of the argument. That's how intelligent the discussion has become.

MEDIOCRITY is a word that is not found in their dictionary, losing record over the last decade and all. Denial of MEDIOCRITY, or the use of any euphemism on the subject, is more palatable than looking at the core issue and taking a conscientious position on it.

[welch]

Where have I been? How did I miss 23 pages on Snyder?

Here in New York, where 1/4 of the office are Giant fans (they want Plax back), and another 1/4 are Jet fans (they are more unhappy than Redskin fans), and the other 1/2 are women who mostly don't care about the NFL (baseball and hockey fans...), well the Redskins almost seem tame.

When can I get in a few swipes at George Preston Marshall, who once fired a coach three plays after a game started?

Who called the Bears "a bunch of crybabies" a week before the NFL Championship games (yes, 73 - 0).

Who used Street&Smith's football to draft his players.

Who drafted Notre Dame's Ralph Guglielmi (!!!!????) to replace Eddie Lebaron at QB.

Who called a press conference to tell the Post, the Evening Star, and the Daily News that he was "close" to trading 3rd string QB M.C. Reynolds to the Browns for Bobby Mitchell. Just waiting for the Browns to say "yes".

[CanesSkins26]

Even Gibbs said on multiple occasions that Snyder doesn't sit in on player acquisition meetings, film study or scouting meetings. If you or RiC has proof otherwise, show it.

Well we do know that Snyder has attended the combine at times and also gone to college campuses to observe individual workouts.

A large Redskins contingent that included owner Daniel Snyder; Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations; new coach Jim Zorn; assistant coaches; and quarterback Jason Campbell first traveled to South Carolina to evaluate Merling at Clemson. The group then observed Kelly, a former standout at Oklahoma, in a private workout for Redskins personnel in Norman, Okla.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/24/AR2008042403256.html

hursday afternoon, the Redskins had a private workout with Malcolm Kelly in Norman.

Team owner Daniel Snyder, head coach Jim Zorn, general manager Vinny Cerrato, wide receivers coach Stan Hixon and QB Jason Campbell attended the workout, which didn’t comprise of any testing.

http://blog.newsok.com/ou/2008/04/24/redskins-meet-with-kelly/

CLEMSON | Washington Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell had seen this size entourage before.

Campbell stood off to the side Thursday, watching the limited pro-day workout of Clemson defensive end Phillip Merling, behind the Redskins’ brain trust.

There was owner Daniel Snyder, player personnel director Vinny Cerrato, new coach Jim Zorn and a cast of assistant coaches — all of whom arrived on Snyder’s personal jet earlier in the morning.
Campbell, tagging along for a later workout with Oklahoma receiver Malcolm Kelly, a projected second-round pick, remembered seeing such a crew the year the Redskins traded into the first-round to acquire him.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/story/385285.html

[El Mexican]

It should be obvious to anyone that Snyder is the one calling the shots and structuring this franchise.

Of course he does not micromanage every decision his subordinates take, but he oversees the main operations.

And here lies the problem: Snyder should not intervene in any way with the way the team should be run. That is the job of the GM. Snyder's only concern should be winning.

Now, can anyone here point out the plan GM Vinny Cerrato has outlined for this organization for the next 5 years, for example?

That's what I thought so...

It's painfully clear that the team follows Synder's desires year in and year out, starting by the Marty and Spurrier hirings, and then the Gibbs reunion tour and now the nouvelle Jim Zorn.

That, my friends, is the clear example of having no long term plan at all.

[DEHog]

And here lies the problem: Snyder should not intervene in any way with the way the team should be run. That is the job of the GM. Snyder's only concern should be winning.

I will disagree with you here slightly...I agree that an owner should be hands-off on the football side of things with one caveat...He should and does have veto power Ex. If Vinny wanted to sign T. O. I would expext our owner to step in and say no.

[Redskin in Canada]

And here lies the problem: Snyder should not intervene in any way with the way the team should be run. That is the job of the GM. Snyder's only concern should be winning.

I will disagree with you here slightly...I agree that an owner should be hands-off on the football side of things with one caveat...He should and does have veto power Ex. If Vinny wanted to sign T. O. I would expext our owner to step in and say no.

I will disagree with you here slightly ... If Vinny wanted to sign T.O, and the thought crossed more than one mind at the DO (dumb office), he should be fired. Not that he does not deserve it already though ...

[Redskin in Canada]

It should be obvious to anyone that Snyder is the one calling the shots and structuring this franchise.

Of course he does not micromanage every decision his subordinates take, but he oversees the main operations.

And here lies the problem: Snyder should not intervene in any way with the way the team should be run. That is the job of the GM. Snyder's only concern should be winning.

Now, can anyone here point out the plan GM Vinny Cerrato has outlined for this organization for the next 5 years, for example?

That's what I thought so...

It's painfully clear that the team follows Synder's desires year in and year out, starting by the Marty and Spurrier hirings, and then the Gibbs reunion tour and now the nouvelle Jim Zorn.

That, my friends, is the clear example of having no long term plan at all.

Welcome to the Force. The Empire is going down and the Rebellion is spreading all over the Galaxy.

People with reasonable arguments arrive at reasonable conclusions.

[Redskin in Canada]

Where have I been? How did I miss 23 pages on Snyder?

So, are GPM and DS COMPARABLE?

[Redskin in Canada]

At least this is in the right forum ...

I was reflecting on this post ...

If I recall correctly, and I am getting older and forgetful, there is a certain close member of your family who shares my view on DS. Is it your dad? He is a good man.

[El Mexican]

To RiC: the Force grew very quickly in this one after the way Norv was ousted by Snyder (the whole waiting 3 hours outside his bosses´ office after the last game he lost).

To DEHog: agreed, he should have veto power but only as a last resort to unresolved arguments amongst the football people that run the team (a la the Gibbs-Cooke- Casserly/Beathard triumvirate).

[DEHog]

And here lies the problem: Snyder should not intervene in any way with the way the team should be run. That is the job of the GM. Snyder's only concern should be winning.

I will disagree with you here slightly...I agree that an owner should be hands-off on the football side of things with one caveat...He should and does have veto power Ex. If Vinny wanted to sign T. O. I would expext our owner to step in and say no.

I will disagree with you here slightly ... If Vinny wanted to sign T.O, and the thought crossed more than one mind at the DO (dumb office), he should be fired. Not that he does not deserve it already though ...

I was being nice... it was probably Vinny who had to say no to DS

[markshark84]

And here lies the problem: Snyder should not intervene in any way with the way the team should be run. That is the job of the GM. Snyder's only concern should be winning.

I will disagree with you here slightly...I agree that an owner should be hands-off on the football side of things with one caveat...He should and does have veto power Ex. If Vinny wanted to sign T. O. I would expext our owner to step in and say no.

I will disagree with you here slightly ... If Vinny wanted to sign T.O, and the thought crossed more than one mind at the DO (dumb office), he should be fired. Not that he does not deserve it already though ...

I will agree with you totally.

[Redskin in Canada]

Stop with facts and logic...it has no place here. Nothing but emotion and asumptions are allowed.

I have been going over the thread again to find out if I missed anything which could have assisted me to allow you to understand -MY- perspective.

The fundamental premise of my view is that from flawed leadership follow flawed results. As a Vet, I would have thought that you accept the fact that there would be nothing more demoralising than go into battle with flawed leadership and not much of a plan. Why is it so strange then that after repeated failures the morale of the troops is so desolate that -ALL- confidence in the leadership has been lost?

Would there be an element of frustration, emotion and anger based on the RECORD? Sure, there would be. Is it justified? GREATLY.

I guess I will have to refrain from saying I TOLD YOU SO when MEDIOCRITY arrives once again next season.

[Fios]

[Redskin in Canada]

Yawn

I guess I will not have to refrain after all.

[PulpExposure]

The fundamental premise of my view is that from flawed leadership follow flawed results. As a Vet, I would have thought that you accept the fact that there would be nothing more demoralising than go into battle with flawed leadership and not much of a plan. Why is it so strange then that after repeated failures the morale of the troops is so desolate that -ALL- confidence in the leadership has been lost?

Is that the situation with the Redskins? Is the morale of the players, in fact, "desolate"? I wasn't aware of that. Do you have some sort of support for that statement?

[DEHog]

The fundamental premise of my view is that from flawed leadership follow flawed results. As a Vet, I would have thought that you accept the fact that there would be nothing more demoralising than go into battle with flawed leadership and not much of a plan. Why is it so strange then that after repeated failures the morale of the troops is so desolate that -ALL- confidence in the leadership has been lost?

Is that the situation with the Redskins? Is the morale of the players, in fact, "desolate"? I wasn't aware of that. Do you have some sort of support for that statement?

I think he was refering to the fans??

[PulpExposure]

The fundamental premise of my view is that from flawed leadership follow flawed results. As a Vet, I would have thought that you accept the fact that there would be nothing more demoralising than go into battle with flawed leadership and not much of a plan. Why is it so strange then that after repeated failures the morale of the troops is so desolate that -ALL- confidence in the leadership has been lost?

Is that the situation with the Redskins? Is the morale of the players, in fact, "desolate"? I wasn't aware of that. Do you have some sort of support for that statement?

I think he was refering to the fans??

Heh. In no way would I ever consider Snyder to be my leader lol...

[Redskin in Canada]

The fundamental premise of my view is that from flawed leadership follow flawed results. As a Vet, I would have thought that you accept the fact that there would be nothing more demoralising than go into battle with flawed leadership and not much of a plan. Why is it so strange then that after repeated failures the morale of the troops is so desolate that -ALL- confidence in the leadership has been lost?

Is that the situation with the Redskins? Is the morale of the players, in fact, "desolate"? I wasn't aware of that. Do you have some sort of support for that statement?

A metaphore for a war vet is what this is. The morale for -troops- under bad leadership is always desolate.

The players shopuld be happy. They are well paid. Sure, it is more fun to win but the alternative is still mighty rewarding. But the morale of some of us fans as you can tell from this and other threads is not hopeful under the current circumstances to say the least.

But I do understand that my message is not a happy one. Once you come to terms with the premise that flawed leadership precedes flawed results, there is little else to be cheerful and hopeful about. My message is not rosy. It is certainly realistically based on wins and losses record over the last decade but it ain't pretty.

I understand that a negative message is still negative even if it is true. But you gave your opinion a few posts ago. While I will always remain loyal to my team and I will cheer for it win or lose, I probably should not spoil the experience for those of you who have a different perspective and see things in a much lighter tone.

Perhaps it is time for me to take another good break from posting for a while. I have repeated my arguments many more times than many want to read. I can add nothing further to them.

Thanks for your patience brothers.

[VetSkinsFan]

Stop with facts and logic...it has no place here. Nothing but emotion and asumptions are allowed.

I have been going over the thread again to find out if I missed anything which could have assisted me to allow you to understand -MY- perspective.

The fundamental premise of my view is that from flawed leadership follow flawed results. As a Vet, I would have thought that you accept the fact that there would be nothing more demoralising than go into battle with flawed leadership and not much of a plan. Why is it so strange then that after repeated failures the morale of the troops is so desolate that -ALL- confidence in the leadership has been lost?

Would there be an element of frustration, emotion and anger based on the RECORD? Sure, there would be. Is it justified? GREATLY.

I guess I will have to refrain from saying I TOLD YOU SO when MEDIOCRITY arrives once again next season.

I've never found a group of soldiers dealing with this desolation, and I served under Dubya. No matter what comes from above, you pull together and you make the best of it. I think you've been reading too many war novels or where ever you get this erroneous information from.

Additionally, if the leadership provided such desolate circumstances, why do players want to come here? If it's as desolate as you protray, then that should usurp greed, shouldn't it? I'm sure Haynesworth could have gotten a comparable contract somewhere else, but he chose here, among the desolate troops.

I've been reading a little this off-season, and I haven't seen where the skins are expressing any "element of frustration, emotion and anger based on the RECORD." I haven't seen where guys are asking publicly to be traded, shown frustration, or threatening to sit out. Oh yeah, Jason Taylor, the primadonna who wasn't played to his strengths, started only 1/2 a year, and didn't earn his $$$ last year didn't want to work out b/c he wanted to 'spend more time with his family.' If he can't conform to the skins requests and workout regimen, then we don't need him anyway...it's not like he was a standout last year.

Finally, I think you should place a sticky on your monitor to remind you of this conversation. Don't think I've seen myself post that the skins are going anywhere beyond mediocrity anywhere lately, so I don't know where your "I told you so!" shenanigans are going to apply to me in the foreseeable future.

[Redskin in Canada]

I've never found a group of soldiers dealing with this desolation, and I served under Dubya. No matter what comes from above, you pull together and you make the best of it. I think you've been reading too many war novels or where ever you get this erroneous information from.

I do know quite a few military stories from around the world. It may not be your experience but I have witnessed such experiences. And no, I am not going to even try to argue whether any such stories apply to some US veterans whom I have met over the years or not.

Additionally, if the leadership provided such desolate circumstances, why do players want to come here? If it's as desolate as you protray, then that should usurp greed, shouldn't it? I'm sure Haynesworth could have gotten a comparable contract somewhere else, but he chose here, among the desolate troops.

The fact that a number of fans have serious reservations about succcess under this leadership is telling enough. The Fat Albert story still wil be told. No sense is prognosticating success simply because he chose this place. Neon, Bruce Smith and others also did choose this place.

I've been reading a little this off-season, and I haven't seen where the skins are expressing any "element of frustration, emotion and anger based on the RECORD." I haven't seen where guys are asking publicly to be traded, shown frustration, or threatening to sit out. Oh yeah, Jason Taylor, the primadonna who wasn't played to his strengths, started only 1/2 a year, and didn't earn his $$$ last year didn't want to work out b/c he wanted to 'spend more time with his family.' If he can't conform to the skins requests and workout regimen, then we don't need him anyway...it's not like he was a standout last year.

They just want to be paid well and hopefully earn it in most cases. Nothing wrong with that. But I do not see a lien up of players wanting to come here to win a Lombardi Trophy.

Finally, I think you should place a sticky on your monitor to remind you of this conversation. Don't think I've seen myself post that the skins are going anywhere beyond mediocrity anywhere lately, so I don't know where your "I told you so!" shenanigans are going to apply to me in the foreseeable future.

If fans are happy with the consistent MEDIOCRITY of the record, it is their prerogative.

When I addressed a post i response to you I did it in the true expectation of being able to communicate and convey how some fans feel. I understand the effort was not only successful; but counterproductive. And unless there is another post addressing me personally in this thread, I will leave it at that.

Peace brothers.