Nicholas Berg

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:21 pm

I guess this subject was too heavy for anyone to talk about it, but its been eating me up inside since i heard and seen the story.

This was the only thing i could do besides say a silent prayer for him and his family and go outside and shout curse words at the top of my lungs.

I was super pissed off.

"ITS JUST MY THOUGHTS MAN" Jay Z

PS Sorry I just had to rant

SkinsChic · Post by **SkinsChic** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:03 am

Amen Gambit - it tears me up inside.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:32 am

I'm not sure what to say about this. I normally don't follow the cases we process here at Dover, but first Tillman and now Berg. I thought I had seen just about every way a man could die and then this happened. I can't imagine being his mother or father...my prayers are with the Bergs. Bacause Berg was from Philly it's not only been on the national but also the local news here, hard to avoid it. If you have not seen the video...DON"T!! I really didn't have a choice it's part of my job. I wish I had never seen it,this one is tough to accept!!

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Sat May 15, 2004 10:06 am

well, i had to check it out now that its all built up in the news. while i completely detest what happened, he should have never been there in the first place. its well known that iraq is a hostile enviroment. the military personnel are the only ones that should be there. they have a job to do. the media, and "good samaritans" that are there, are doing nothing but getting in the way and just asking for trouble. i have to question the common sense of any american civilian in iraq. you play with fire and you get burnt, unfortunantly for berg and his family, they got burnt. My 2 cents

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Sat May 15, 2004 11:23 pm

I'm reserving judgment on this, but something just doesn't pass the smell test.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Sun May 16, 2004 11:04 pm

I cannot believe I'm saying this but I agree with curveball here. I mean he wasn't a contractor. And I heard they had ties between him and Masawie. I know I spelled that wrong sorry.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon May 17, 2004 6:30 am

He may have been in some suspicion surrounding him (apparently he had some casual links to one of the 9-11 hijackers, his work in Iraq was as a contractor--groups of people that along with the media, like hailskins666 pointed out, tend to "get in the way"). But to say that he shouldn't have been there isn't right. Iraq needs more than just military personel to get them up and running.

The military isn't going to do a great job of setting up clean water pipelines, schools, hospitals, businesses, etc. They are there to keep the peace and bring stability to the region. What Iraq needs are courageous business-people (both natives and foreigners like Berg) to come into that dangerous environment and rebuild a nation that isn't just peaceful but also economically promising.

I know that no one here is making his murder out to be anything less than the tragedy it is; but part of the tragedy has to be that he was one of the many private workers trying to make the nation function on more levels than just national peace.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:32 am

But to say that he shouldn't have been there isn't right. Iraq needs more than just military personel to get them up and running.

i agree to an extent. its still too much of a hostile environmet right now though. let the military continue to police the areas until its safe to send someone in.
but, its still iraq's own responsibility to rebuild its country as well. the people of iraq have to take it upon themselves to get things started. but they won't, because right now they are in the middle of civil war. which brings me back to my first point. berg should have never been there in the first place. you can't just go into a hostile environment and say "i come in peace" and expect to be on your merry way. especially when half the people there blame americans for whats going on in the first place.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:32 am

Hey fan, I was in your neck of the woods on Friday. The mall is so different then 10 years ago. LOL Anyway, I am not belittling the work of the contractors at all. They actually are all sponsered by companies with their foots in the door, that send them there. That I feel is very couragous. But packing up your bags and heading to Iraq to help out is a little silly. They have not yet proved this kid had any work there. His death is very tragic. I just think that things surrounding his death are not as clear as they are being made to seem.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:23 pm

They had a two man company - him and his father. They supposedly set up radio antenna for a living.

According to stories I heard - I would take what his father says with a small grain of salt - he was a very avid anti war protestor before his son ever got involved, the son was pro war, he was warned 4 WEEKS before this happened, offered a flight out, refused it, was all by himself with no security, and had a passport with an Isreali stamp in it from where he had visited that country.

All I have to say is that for someone to come out and say this was all about the sins of the leaders of this country, well - it is obviously the shock and loss that is affecting him.

This very white guy (myself I mean) wouldn't be caught over there without some very extensive protection in place, and I wouldn't certainly be out in the open where they could get a hold of me, at least without me being able to shoot several of them first.

Of course, being ex military might have something to do with that mindset.

I just don't think something is kosher here - but no matter what was done to the prisoners, and I saw a bunch of the pics, no one deserved that. I would love to get my ex-intel hands on those thugs - I would show them was a real interrogation was all about. They think THAT was torture? Laying naked in a pile with dead pigs laid all around you?

Come on - the nakedness is standard tactics in ANY country for male prisoners. Breaking potty training, changing dietary habits, light and sensory deprivation - all that is standard and a lot more humane than field interrogations - that I know about.

All in all - nothing, and I repeat, nothing smells right about this whole situation.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:33 pm

Yes, I definitely agree with everyone that the details around what he was doing are pretty unclear and even a bit shady as for right now. Also, I didn't mean to imply that anyone was trashing the work of the contractors.

However, I still disagree with you skinsfan666 in that it is important for private companies to go in right now. The Iraqis, due to decades of oppression, are not currently capable of doing the things that need to get done (i.e. supplying clean drinking water, providing basic humanitarian aid, etc.) It isn't stupid when people volunteer to go over there and work, it's courageous. They are making sacrifices and putting their lives on the line in order to get that country to the point where it can support itself in these ways.

As for the country being too dangerous, I tend to disagree in some respects. For one, I don't think that the resistance is as wide spread as it looks on the news coverage. Part of this is because of news slant, but it's also because a small minority can make it really seem like it's a lot more dangerous than it actually is. (And yes, it is dangerous there, I just don't think so dangerous that all companies should keep willing humanitarian workers out).

The strangest part is, as SFIR pointed out, that he didn't take a LOT of help and security that the US offered. That's where it gets very suspicious, if you ask me.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:48 pm

Hey fan, I was in your neck of the woods on Friday. The mall is so different then 10 years ago.

Oh yes, and I can't wait to get back to Annapolis myself. During the summer I work about a quarter of the mile down the road from the mall. I go to school out-of state; and as much as I'd hate to admit it in front of my buddies, I'm really a guy that just likes to be home more than anything else. Home is where my mom is, can't get too much better than that. . .

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:17 pm

He not only didn't have a LOT of help - he had NONE.

Not to mention the fact that you would think you might have to have a CREW to put up antennae like my brother in law used to.

I do agree with HS666 that the crews need to be there - but under company's protection and a lot of security. The military isn't gonna do the job that a Haliburton is, for example. No way. But you want to bring in a company that can and will hire mercs to do the job of protection. Top mercs - not like the four who were so sloppy that got slagged.

I mean - always taking the same route, not changing speeds, all in one car, windows up, nothing noticed - most experts in detailing how the ambush happened pointed out inconsistencies that would have twigged me or my teammates when I was in the service, and we weren't trained in this stuff.

PLEASE don't get me wrong - they are ALL on our team... and I mourn them. But to learn from mistakes you list 'em and analyze them - sometimes that gets mistaken for cold bloodedness.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:31 pm

I feel sorry for those people. We will handle them soon :wink:

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:37 pm

I think we need to pull our guys out. Its hard to help people who don't want to be helped and so many of them want us to leave.

Quick question. Where is all of that oil money going because Im paying $2 a gallon and I know its going somewhere.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:41 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I think we need to pull our guys out. Its hard to help people who don't want to be helped and so many of them want us to leave.

Quick question. Where is all of that oil money going because Im paying $2 a gallon and I know its going somewhere.

No doubt!! I wish I had Diesel. I do believe it is cheaper.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:58 pm

it's all a crock of shiznit at this point. diesel or gas, you're paying out the :moon:

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:12 pm

Not to change the subject, but the fact that we aren't paying more for our gasoline really played a role in the rise of terrorism.

The wholesale cost of gas, and more importantly oil, hasn't kept pace with inflation. At one time, Saudi Arabia paid every male citizen a healthy "oil" bonus much like the state of Alaska does for its citizens.

When these payments decreased (due somewhat to the House of Saud's greed and somewhat to the lack of overall price increases) the disillusionment with the royal family and rise of wahabism increased.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:37 pm

Also, excuse me for changing the subject. But I believe this is showing the true crookedness of this country. We have technology that can lessen our dependancy on oil. But we aren't putting money into it. We're going to mars but we can't find money to help ourselves here on earth. We need to push alternative fuels or something, we can't be dependent on a country that simply hates our guts.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue May 18, 2004 4:36 pm

- pull our guys out -
That's exactly what those terrorist bastards want. We'll be fighting them at our local shopping mall shortly afterwards. We absolutely must take the fight to them. I'm proud of our soldiers and support them 100%. Never mind the fact that we've made huge progress for those poeple and that Iraqi's have food, power and schools for their children. Saddam was a terrorist, he funded suicide bomers in Isreal - $19,000 to the family of the sick subhuman that blew himself up on a bus or a restaurant.

Seriously, all the 'quit now' people need to grow a pair and figure out we're at war with hate-filled subhumans. Not only shouldn't we stay - but we should tread a little heavier!

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:27 pm

Scooter wrote:- pull our guys out -
That's exactly what those terrorist bastards want. We'll be fighting them at our local shopping mall shortly afterwards. We absolutely must take the fight to them. I'm proud of our soldiers and support them 100%. Never mind the fact that we've made huge progress for those poeple and that Iraqi's have food, power and schools for their children. Saddam was a terrorist, he funded suicide bomers in Isreal - $19,000 to the family of the sick subhuman that blew himself up on a bus or a restaurant.

Seriously, all the 'quit now' people need to grow a pair and figure out we're at war with hate-filled subhumans. Not only shouldn't we stay - but we should tread a little heavier!

I agree Scooter. They struck us first on 9-11. I just saw the Nick Berg execution video. It is a clear reminder of what the U.S. is dealing with, a bunch of lunatic, premative psychopaths. I saw the Daniel Pearl execution several months ago. People piss and moan about how the U.S. troops are treating prisonors need to look at those videos of Berg and Pearl. Having naked prisoners tied up together is nothing compared to slicing someone's head off slowly with a knife. I'm not justifying how we treated Iraqi prisoners, I'm just saying that we shouldn't act like we're the evil ones when these psychos take the cake. This prisoner contraversy is 100% driven by political interest trying to run Bush out of office.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:34 am

I've been reading this thread, and agree that this was an awful situation. However, I am unclear on one thing...

Are some of you implying that Berg was in on it? I don't think it impossible that he may have "volunteered" to give his life up for a cause. He did look awfully comfortable in the video, up until the beheading.

Please forgive me if I am wrong about the inferences.

We ABSOLUTELY cannot pull out of Iraq. Let's get more news coverage of the good the military is doing in Iraq, rather than the wall-to-wall coverage of the tragedies in Iraq that slant public opinion and make us look helpless against our enemies.

God bless our troops.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Wed May 19, 2004 1:51 pm

Berg wasn't in on anything. The video still flashes in my head. That poor kid had no idea what was about to happen to him. In fact, he was in opposition to his father's view of Bush. He went there to make Iraq a better place - hopefully he won't have died in vain. I'm actually very nervous that we would even consider pulling out until the evil bastards are dead. The innocent Iraqi's outnumber the subhumans - I hope they find the courage to rise up and take control...
Stepping down from the soap box :0)

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Wed May 19, 2004 2:51 pm

Scooter wrote:Stepping down from the soap box :0)

Cute.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Wed May 19, 2004 5:59 pm

Couple of things here guys
1) We cannot compare what happened at the prison to what they do. Think about it...do we really want to compare ourselfs to them. I hear so many beat their chest about how the beheading was worst then the prison scandal. We are American we are better then this and the day we start comparing ourselfs to them is the day we lose site of what America is all about.
2) If we pull out guess where we will fight the war??...right here in our backyards.
3) Can you imagine if we had the media of today and the mindset of the people today during WWII we all be speaking German right now!