Jason Taylor Released

[PulpExposure]

I don't see why this can't be both a cap issue and a workout issue. Yes, it makes sense that the Redskins would like to get out from under an $8 million payment and, yes, it also makes sense that they would have a vested interest in monitoring a player who suffered a potentially debilitating issue before they spent that money.

Exactly. They probably did a cost-benefit analysis on Taylor, and probably thought that prior to this, he was (barely) worth retaining. However, the fact that he couldn't commit to coming to DC for 39 workouts over 13 weeks...pushed them to releasing him.

[Deadskins]

Reading between the lines, one has to wonder if there was not concern that Taylor was putting adequate effort into rehabing his injured calf muscle. Compartment syndrome can cause serious damage to both muscle and nerve tissue. The team had clearly made a statement that they intended to stay with Taylor and his 8.5 mil salary. Why was this one issue so critical to them?

Had Taylor been dogging it, not putting forth the effort to fully regain strength in that calf? I've not seen them make this an issue for other players. Why this one? Why now?

I think you're on the right track. I certainly believe they wanted to watch him more closely, whether it was strictly due to his rehab, or just to improve his on-field performance like they did with CP last year.

Nah, I'm not buying that.

I've been thinking about this story lately too. Does anybody really believe this nonsense? If the Redskins really wanted Jason Taylor, a 34 year old vet and former probowler, would they seriously have released him for not working out with the team at nonmandatory sessions? That's just such a weak story, we should all be insulted by it. Its like the disgraced politician who resigns to "spend more time with his family".

So my question really is why the silly story? Why not just say this didn't work out, we need the cap space or whatever and release him? Its not like anybody would have been surprised. And I don't see how this goofy OTA story makes either Taylor or the Redskins look any better. It makes Taylor look uncommitted and/or lazy, and it makes the Redskins look stupid and abitrary.

Does it make any difference to you that Taylor's reason for not making the deal was that exact same politician's excuse? Like you said, why not just say it didn't work out or it was a cap issue if that was the real cause? I have to think they are being honest, because he could have just as well said, OK, and then they'd have been screwed. It's a pretty big gamble just to save a little face.

Have you ever heard of a team releasing a starter for not attending non-mandatory workouts?

No, but that's not why he was released. He was released because he wouldn't agree to make attending those workouts mandatory. And I've never heard of a player turning down $8.5 million because he didn't want to work out with the team, either.

[Deadskins]

I don't see why this can't be both a cap issue and a workout issue. Yes, it makes sense that the Redskins would like to get out from under an $8 million payment and, yes, it also makes sense that they would have a vested interest in monitoring a player who suffered a potentially debilitating issue before they spent that money.

Exactly. They probably did a cost-benefit analysis on Taylor, and probably thought that prior to this, he was (barely) worth retaining. However, the fact that he couldn't commit to coming to DC for 39 workouts over 13 weeks...pushed them to releasing him.

They only asked him to come to 25 of those 39 workouts. What I don't buy is his excuse. I think he knows he's not fully healed. I'd be very wary of signing him if I were another team.

[Countertrey]

If it were about the cap alone, they would have just cut him, just like any other player on the downward arc of his career. No face to save... it's a straight up 8.5 mil cap savings. Theres more to it. There's a reason they wanted those workouts to be mandatory.

[SkinsFreak]

If it were about the cap alone, they would have just cut him, just like any other player on the downward arc of his career. No face to save... it's a straight up 8.5 mil cap savings. Theres more to it. There's a reason they wanted those workouts to be mandatory.

Absolutely agree with you and Deadskins.

[Wahoo McDaniels]

If every team had a crystal ball to go back and make great picks, the Lions, Chiefs, Raiders etc. would be the world's finest teams.

The fact is that at the time Taylor Jacobs was considered first round talent and Cliff Russell was probably the fastest WR in the draft.

Neither one were able to earn playing time, and that's too bad. But it happens to the best teams. The Colts and Pats are probably two of the best teams when if comes to the draft. Not every pick they make is gold, you miss on a couple. It's not an exact science.

Still, given the chance to do it over again, they'd probably still take Jacobs because he was a track star WR who was productive at a major college program.

1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents. Therein lies the problem with the Skins scouting department. If we had a better track record to show for it...I would say that we were getting value for these picks by getting 1st round talent in the second. The reality is that everyone else sees something that makes them shy away from these players and our scouting department, well, can't scout and therefore we get stuck with players whose stock is falling faster than the Dow Jones. It says something when your own college coach won't put you on the field.


Time will tell if we were snookered by Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly as we were with Jacobs and Russell, but the early results aren't good. Everyone in the league was scared off by Kelly's knee problems, but we knew better.....and I think he's on his 4th knee "procedure" since we got him.

I would give you more examples of bad 2nd round picks since 2002, but the only other one we've had is Rocky McIntosh who has halfway decent, although he was benched this year.

[SkinsFreak]

1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents.

Clinton Portis was a 1st round talent that slipped into the 2nd round before being drafted by Denver with the 51st pick overall. Was he a bust?

There will always be bad picks made in every round of the draft, Wahoo. That doesn't prove anything. There were 4-5 WR's considered to have 1st round talent last year, but no WR's were selected in the 1st round. However, ten were selected in the 2nd round. Are they all busts too?

[SkinsFreak]

Back on topic... however...

Anyone catch NFL Live today? Coach Herm Edwards joined Trey Wingo and Mark Schlereth on the show. All agreed the Skins made the right decision releasing Taylor for not committing to the team.

What's interesting though, Wingo is an admitted Cowboys fan and loves taking shots that the Skins on the show. Stink is a disgruntled ex-Redskin and also loves taking pot shots at the organization. But not this time.

Herm said just about all teams are doing this with players and the Redskins were justified by asking Taylor to commit to work-outs. Wingo made the point to say the non-commitment issue with Taylor has happened 2 years in a row and is why Parcels lost respect for him. Wingo backed the move. Stink even said he had "a lot of respect for Cerrato and Snyder for taking this position with Taylor" and players are expected to commit themselves to the team these days.

Now, I rarely ever care what those fools have to say, but even when guys like that, that typically bash the organization, publicly back the Redskins and knock Taylor for turning down $8.5M, it lends credibility that the club is taking positive steps. Additionally, damn near every expert on NFLN has agreed the Skins made the right move by signing Haynesworth and releasing Taylor.

[riggofan]

Does it make any difference to you that Taylor's reason for not making the deal was that exact same politician's excuse?

hahah. Yes! Now that you mention it. There is some irony there.

Yeah, I "buy" the story... any alternative motives seem like conspiracy theories.

Yeah don't get me wrong. I don't believe this is some cover-up to some big conspiracy or anything stupid like that.

I just think it was a really lame excuse that left me wondering why they bothered with it at all. How many players have been released in the past five days by teams? Its not really a big deal this time of year.

Let me put this another way. If Taylor had agreed to attend all of these workouts (and earn another $500K in the process), do you believe that would have settled things, and he would have stayed a Redskin? I don't.

Just a few weeks ago, people were talking about getting the underperforming Taylor to take a pay cut. Now we're supposed to believe they actually wanted to increase his salary? Right.

Anyway, I know none of this really matters either way. I was just kind of struck by how lame the whole thing was. I think this was the FO's weak attempt to save face for giving up draft picks again for another total bust. Like we're supposed to applaud Vinny for laying down the law with Taylor about OTAs or something.

I'm glad Taylor is gone. I just wish he would have taken Cerrato with him!

[PulpExposure]

1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents.

Clinton Portis was a 1st round talent that slipped into the 2nd round before being drafted by Denver with the 51st pick overall. Was he a bust?

Fred Smoot was another. Dropped because of character concerns.

And Wahoo, one thing about the FO is we have hit on our first round draft picks. It's actually pretty impressive; if you look at other teams' history, they often miss on 1st rounders.

For example, people think the Eagles and Ravens are great drafters; and overall, they are. However, both teams have had noticeable misses in the first round (Travis Taylor/Mark Clayton/Kyle Boller for the Ravens, Freddie Mitchell/Jerome McDougle). You'd have to go back to probably Andre Johnson in 1996 for a Redskins 1st round draft pick to have noticeably failed a la one of the aforementioned players. Hell, even Rod Gardner played for another team after the Skins, whereas those guys mentioned above couldn't find regular playing time with any team after being released.

[Wahoo McDaniels]

1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents.

Clinton Portis was a 1st round talent that slipped into the 2nd round before being drafted by Denver with the 51st pick overall. Was he a bust?

There will always be bad picks made in every round of the draft, Wahoo. That doesn't prove anything. There were 4-5 WR's considered to have 1st round talent last year, but no WR's were selected in the 1st round. However, ten were selected in the 2nd round. Are they all busts too?

Read my post again...it reads "1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents"

Two elements to my statement....a player falling to a later round AND being a bust. To disprove my statement, you must find me a player that meets both elements and thus disproves my hypothesis....

So, I don't understand your Clinton reference.

But, even more funny to me is the fact that you provided me a great 2nd Round draft pick from another organization as your example.

For a trip down memory lane, let's remember how Clinton came to the Skins. We traded for him and gave up possibly the rarest commodity in pro football...a shutdown corner. And what did the Broncos do? They found three more running backs to take Clinton's place including multiple 1000 yd rushers and 2 more division championships.
Don't get me wrong, I love having Clinton on the team, but to give up Champ? And furthermore, why is Champ the only guy that Snyder not "shown the money"?

An NFL GM's favorite words from their secretary must be: "Sir, it's Vinny Cerrato on Line 1 and he'd like to make a trade".

[Wahoo McDaniels]

1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents.

Clinton Portis was a 1st round talent that slipped into the 2nd round before being drafted by Denver with the 51st pick overall. Was he a bust?

Fred Smoot was another. Dropped because of character concerns.

And Wahoo, one thing about the FO is we have hit on our first round draft picks. It's actually pretty impressive; if you look at other teams' history, they often miss on 1st rounders.

For example, people think the Eagles and Ravens are great drafters; and overall, they are. However, both teams have had noticeable misses in the first round (Travis Taylor/Mark Clayton/Kyle Boller for the Ravens, Freddie Mitchell/Jerome McDougle). You'd have to go back to probably Andre Johnson in 1996 for a Redskins 1st round draft pick to have noticeably failed a la one of the aforementioned players. Hell, even Rod Gardner played for another team after the Skins, whereas those guys mentioned above couldn't find regular playing time with any team after being released.

Is reading comprehension not a prerequisite to responding to posts on this site? Read my post again "1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents. "


1st Round talent that drop to the 2nd Round AND are busts....

Even though Fred has had less than a stellar career, I would not say he was a bust. Also, you're wrong about why Smoot dropped out of the 1st Round. Fred Smoot dropped out of the 1st Round because he couldn't do one rep at 225 during the combine and GM's were worried that he couldn't tackle....boy were they wrong.

[Wahoo McDaniels]

I apologize to Fred Smoot. I have been corrected by a friend of mine. Fred Smoot did 1 rep at 225 at the combine.

[MakeRomoCry]

For a trip down memory lane, let's remember how Clinton came to the Skins. We traded for him and gave up possibly the rarest commodity in pro football...a shutdown corner. And what did the Broncos do? They found three more running backs to take Clinton's place including multiple 1000 yd rushers and 2 more division championships.
Don't get me wrong, I love having Clinton on the team, but to give up Champ? And furthermore, why is Champ the only guy that Snyder not "shown the money"?

Champ Bailey is no longer an elite "shutdown" corner. In fact, it could be argued that the only true "shutdown" corner in the league is Nnamdi Asomugah. Teams simply don't throw his way. When the deal was made for Portis, Champ was considerably older. Admittedly, at the time Bailey was an elite corner, but the Redskins acquired a running back that was off to the most prolific start to a career for running backs in NFL history. He has since been the workhorse and carried the Redskins for the last four years in various offenses that lacked any kind of passing threat. Portis could be the best all-around RB in the league. He has great hands, good acceleration, power and is a superb blocker. I would make this trade all over again. While any team could find some back to come in and rush for 1,000 yards, guys like Clinton Portis don't come around too often. Champ was toast last year and he'll get burned again.

[VetSkinsFan]

"1st Round talents that drop to the second round and are busts are not 1st round talents. "

Wow, can we say, "Hello, Captain Obvious!!"

The distinction you fail to make is PROJECTED first round talent... No one is any round talent until they are drafted. They may be steals or busts, but until they're drafted, it's all PROJECTED. When you play work games, you gotta dot all your "i" and cross all your "t."

[Skinsfan55]

Chris ey weighs in on the Jason Taylor situation from his blog:

$500,000 to work out between the months of March and June - just to work out. Then an upcoming salary of $9,000,000 - for one season of play. One season! You would really have to hate to be somewhere to turn down ten million dollars for the next ten months of work. I mean, I know Miami is pretty nice, but just go ahead and make that much money while you still can and then retire anywhere you want. Hell, I would go play in Russia for 10,000,000. I would pack my bags and fly out tomorrow, "Ill see ya in February."

Jason allegedly turned down the $500,000 offer to work out with the Redskins for the off season. When the request was denied the Skins released his rights for the last season of his contract. This was obviously no surprise to JT, who wanted to stay with his family, where they live in Miami.

Now I feel like I'm judging too much and I definitely can't be that guy. Last off season I had a workout bonus of $100,000 to make 80 percent of my workouts and didn't reach it. Granted I got married and missed 10 days for my honeymoon, but I also took a week trip for Drew Brees charity. I was still very close to making the percentage. So just stating the facts of the off season program that I have been a part of for the last five years will suffice.

We will have actual workouts starting on March 16th going into May. These are the weight lifting, running, gaining strength at the gym type of workouts that anyone would expect. Of course we work very hard, but when I go into Redskins park for this type of work I spend no more than three hours in the facility. The requirements for each week are to workout four days and it can be for any four days throughout the week. Mon - Thurs, Tues - Fri or whatever combination of four days you want to make, this schedule also allows a four day weekend every week. Between the months of March and April there will be 28 of these required workouts. As May begins we get into what is called an OTA schedule.(Optional Training Activity) These will be like mini practice days. We will meet in the morning and install plays for the first couple hours, have quick lunch, then go on the field for about an hour and a half. The practices are at a quick tempo, but we wear only helmets, so little contact is involved. The day will usually last from 9 in the morning until 3 in the after noon. The requirements for the off-season end June 12. The total amount of optional/mandatory days is 52.

For JT to reach his 75 percent requirement of the deal would have had to be hear for 39 days. Had he arrived and worked for the 39 days he would have been compensated $12,820 per day. That is unreal to me! Most people pay their own money to go to the gym, but almost 13 thousand dollars a day is a pretty good membership in the other direction. Again, I will not judge this decision and I have no idea what his bank account could possibly be, but that's a (expletive deleted) ton of money. As for my end of the off season, I will be required to make 42 days to reach my bonus. I again would receive a check grossing $100,000. This would pay me $2300 per workout. Still pretty awesome and enough to get me into the gym.

[Cooter]

The Redskins online store is trying to unload all of J. Taylor's jersey's; pre-order a Haynesworth jersey and get a J. Taylor jersey for free, LOL. I'll tell them to keep the jersey and give me free shipping.

[DEHog]

The Redskins online store is trying to unload all of J. Taylor's jersey's; pre-order a Haynesworth jersey and get a J. Taylor jersey for free, LOL. I'll tell them to keep the jersey and give me free shipping.

There is already a thread on DS Greed

[Cooter]

There is already a thread on DS Greed

Damn it, why didn't I think of that . You're good

[SkinsJock]

Back on topic... however... damn near every expert on NFLN has agreed the Skins made the right move by signing Haynesworth and releasing Taylor.

Is that really so? I thought that most "experts" agreed with the fact that Taylor would benefit from having a DT like Fat Albert as would the line, the linebackers and the secondary.

To imply that these same people agreed with the signing AND thought we were correct in not signing Taylor because he would not agree to make a workout commitment is misleading in my opinion. Maybe that's what you intended

Most "experts" felt we gave Fat Albert too much money even when factored over 4 years

I also felt that most "experts" thought that the team was right in asking for a commitment from Taylor and that he made a mistake by both not staying for another year and also for not trying to at least see if he couldn't make amends for not playing up to his salary last season

[tribeofjudah]

Chris ey weighs in on the Jason Taylor situation from his blog:

$500,000 to work out between the months of March and June - just to work out. Then an upcoming salary of $9,000,000 - for one season of play. One season! You would really have to hate to be somewhere to turn down ten million dollars for the next ten months of work. I mean, I know Miami is pretty nice, but just go ahead and make that much money while you still can and then retire anywhere you want. Hell, I would go play in Russia for 10,000,000. I would pack my bags and fly out tomorrow, "Ill see ya in February."

Jason allegedly turned down the $500,000 offer to work out with the Redskins for the off season. When the request was denied the Skins released his rights for the last season of his contract. This was obviously no surprise to JT, who wanted to stay with his family, where they live in Miami.

Now I feel like I'm judging too much and I definitely can't be that guy. Last off season I had a workout bonus of $100,000 to make 80 percent of my workouts and didn't reach it. Granted I got married and missed 10 days for my honeymoon, but I also took a week trip for Drew Brees charity. I was still very close to making the percentage. So just stating the facts of the off season program that I have been a part of for the last five years will suffice.

We will have actual workouts starting on March 16th going into May. These are the weight lifting, running, gaining strength at the gym type of workouts that anyone would expect. Of course we work very hard, but when I go into Redskins park for this type of work I spend no more than three hours in the facility. The requirements for each week are to workout four days and it can be for any four days throughout the week. Mon - Thurs, Tues - Fri or whatever combination of four days you want to make, this schedule also allows a four day weekend every week. Between the months of March and April there will be 28 of these required workouts. As May begins we get into what is called an OTA schedule.(Optional Training Activity) These will be like mini practice days. We will meet in the morning and install plays for the first couple hours, have quick lunch, then go on the field for about an hour and a half. The practices are at a quick tempo, but we wear only helmets, so little contact is involved. The day will usually last from 9 in the morning until 3 in the after noon. The requirements for the off-season end June 12. The total amount of optional/mandatory days is 52.

For JT to reach his 75 percent requirement of the deal would have had to be hear for 39 days. Had he arrived and worked for the 39 days he would have been compensated $12,820 per day. That is unreal to me! Most people pay their own money to go to the gym, but almost 13 thousand dollars a day is a pretty good membership in the other direction. Again, I will not judge this decision and I have no idea what his bank account could possibly be, but that's a (expletive deleted) ton of money. As for my end of the off season, I will be required to make 42 days to reach my bonus. I again would receive a check grossing $100,000. This would pay me $2300 per workout. Still pretty awesome and enough to get me into the gym.

Nice...... ey is just cool as the south side of a pillow....

[tribeofjudah]

Psssssssssssst.... listen here:
I really don't think Mr. Haynesworth want's to be known as "fat Albert"

[SkinsFreak]

Back on topic... however... damn near every expert on NFLN has agreed the Skins made the right move by signing Haynesworth and releasing Taylor.

Is that really so? I thought that most "experts" agreed with the fact that Taylor would benefit from having a DT like Fat Albert as would the line, the linebackers and the secondary.

To imply that these same people agreed with the signing AND thought we were correct in not signing Taylor because he would not agree to make a workout commitment is misleading in my opinion. Maybe that's what you intended

Most "experts" felt we gave Fat Albert too much money even when factored over 4 years

I also felt that most "experts" thought that the team was right in asking for a commitment from Taylor and that he made a mistake by both not staying for another year and also for not trying to at least see if he couldn't make amends for not playing up to his salary last season

First of all, there were 6 teams offering similar sized contracts for Haynesworth, so the price was market value. Secondly, Haynesworth was offered more money from another team, but came to D.C. instead. So yes, many experts felt it was a good signing. Further, every analyst I watched said the Skins made the right decision releasing Taylor. Of course he could have benefited from AH, but when the guy wants $8M after last seasons performance and refused to commit to offseason workouts... see ya. Yes, they got burned by the draft picks given up for Taylor, but Taylor's injuries and lack of commitment was unforeseen. But let's beat that dead horse again.

[SkinsJock]

Not me, my friend I was just pointing out the little nuance in your post that coupled the release and the signing - nice try though!

Try calling Pat Kirwin up and asking for his opinions on the Skin's signing Haynesworth - not the fact that Fat Albert might be a help to the Skin's defense but the contract itself - there is a difference - he seems to have a slightly different opinion - just saying ....

anyhoo ... I am trying to look forward NOT back - I just feel that last year we had a not so bad defense but we had an offense that could not score points Now, I know we can be helped by adding Fat Albert to the mix and I just hope he can play most of the season but our needs this year are the offensive and defensive lines. Like all teams we need depth!

I'll say it again, all teams need depth - we need a lot of help in the next 3 years on offense and we also have a defense that relies on player rotation, but, instead of acquiring a number of players on the defensive side, our FO brain trust brought in Fat Albert and seem to think that single player will address our defensive needs - NOT HAPPENING - just my opinion, but we will see if Cerrato and Snyder can finally get lucky.

At this time, we are still hoping we can give some help to the offensive line.

Looking at our team at the end of the year and going forward it seemed obvious to a few of us that our defense needed some help but our offense needs a lot of help. basically, we have an owner that is going to try and make this team competitive immediately and risk a lot by going that route, rather than do what needs to be done over a few years and make sure it gets done right.

we really need Snyder to both let his ego go and bring in the best GM in the NFL and make us a great franchise again - we deserve to be good in the real season not just in the off season.


Most teams make their own luck - Snyder likes to make the big splash - I must admit that if we get a RT that can help we will be favorites to win the off-season acquisition spree - I am looking forward to the day when we begin a season knowing we have a chance to be a decent team again and not hoping it's going to happen

Snyder is a really good owner and I'm glad he owns my team - I just wish he would understand that we are not going to have a chance to be a really good team while he makes the football decisions without the help of a football person.

btw - I cannot wait for the draft and to get back to OTA's

[SkinsFreak]

Try calling Pat Kirwin up and asking for his opinions on the Skin's signing Haynesworth - not the fact that Fat Albert might be a help to the Skin's defense but the contract itself - there is a difference - he seems to have a slightly different opinion - just saying ....

Oh, well then... Pat Kirwin, the foremost expert on NFL contracts, cap management and contract structures. Yet when respected guys like Clayton, Mortensen and the guys on the NFLN actually break down the contract, they conclude it isn't as bad as some are reporting. And SkinsJock, I mean, please, there will always be a few to endlessly take their shots at Snyder because he's willing to spend a lot of money, and much of it coming out of his personal pockets. But again, the contract price was MARKET VALUE, with six teams offering the same amount, and others even more. I don't give a rats ass about Pat's opinion. The majority felt is was a good move for the Skins, and I do as well.

I'll say it again, all teams need depth - we need a lot of help in the next 3 years on offense and we also have a defense that relies on player rotation, but, instead of acquiring a number of players on the defensive side, our FO brain trust brought in Fat Albert and seem to think that single player will address our defensive needs - NOT HAPPENING - just my opinion, but we will see if Cerrato and Snyder can finally get lucky.

OMG! Who are these masses of free agents they should have signed instead? If they did sign a bunch of lower level free agents for depth, with a 53-man roster limit, who gets cut to make room? Did you not read 1niksders breakdown of AH's contract including the reasonable cap implications? Did you know next year will most likely be uncapped? Did you know we are still $8M under the cap for THIS YEAR? I still don't understand why you think the signing of AH will stop the team from signing depth. But whatever... I'm done.