Would a trade for Cutler make sense?

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:38 am

Don't flame me, I am just asking the question if there would be a way for the Skins to trade for Cutler since he seems on the block in Denver. I know they won't do this but it is interesting to think of the possibilities. Of course, I am actually happy with J. Camp. and would like for him to have one more year under the same coaches to prove himself but a Jay Cutler does not present itself everyday.

MEZZSKIN · Post by **MEZZSKIN** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:55 am

Its pretty much a moot issue at this point..Broncos wanted Cassel ..he's gone now..Cutler is not available anymore..who would they replace him with Rex Grossman?

The real issue is why didn't we entertain Matt Cassel...WE LOVE TRADING PIcks...I love how we traded a A 2nd and another pick for a washed up Taylor...and Chiefs traded just a 2nd for A young 27 year old qb with HUGE UPSIDE..Comical...and after JC throws up another avgerage we will fire Zorn get rid of JC ..and Mtg the future on someething else....and on it goes

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:04 am

In the NFL a player is lucky to last 3-4 years. When we got Taylor he still had a lot of football left to play, but unfortunately he got injured.

We traded a second round pick for a Hall of Fame defensive end a year removed from Defensive Player of the Year. The Chiefs traded a second rounder (an early, early second rounder) for Cassel with one year of starting experience... and it's pretty universally believed that the Pats got hosed.

(I find it ironic that the Chiefs are the ones who injured Brady in the first place.)

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:44 am

Skinsfan55 wrote:In the NFL a player is lucky to last 3-4 years. When we got Taylor he still had a lot of football left to play, but unfortunately he got injured.

We traded a second round pick for a Hall of Fame defensive end a year removed from Defensive Player of the Year. The Chiefs traded a second rounder (an early, early second rounder) for Cassel with one year of starting experience... and it's pretty universally believed that the Pats got hosed.

(I find it ironic that the Chiefs are the ones who injured Brady in the first place.)

Because the Pats were so woefully undercompensated for Cassel, it's been assumed that Belicheck was doing both Cassel and Pioli a favorite by trading the guy on the cheap.

Also, I'm not sure Cassel is such a great prospect anyways. He had a good year for the Pats last year, but: 1) he was playing with 2 phenomenal WRs; 2) a decent offensive line; and most importantly, 3) in a system where he's studied it for his entire NFL career. Not sure he'll replicate that success in a different system.

MEZZSKIN · Post by **MEZZSKIN** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:13 pm

All points on Cassell are vaild..I'm not here to argue them..HOWEVER

When assessing Cassel's play please keep in mind before starting this year his last start was his SENIOR YEAR IN HIGHSCHOOL....he never started ONE COLLEGE game...100's of so called blue chip prospects (qb) with 20-30 starts at the college level come into NFL and the game is MUCH TOO FAST for them(cough cough heath schuler) ....this kid played and Produced and got better as season went on....Why? The game was slowing down for him and as it continues to slow for him he will get better..Cassel's career is already a ONE ina Thousand for his accomplishment....the kid can hands down play...Hands down.....

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:09 pm

MEZZSKIN wrote:All points on Cassell are vaild..I'm not here to argue them..HOWEVER

When assessing Cassel's play please keep in mind before starting this year his last start was his SENIOR YEAR IN HIGHSCHOOL....he never started ONE COLLEGE game...100's of so called blue chip prospects (qb) with 20-30 starts at the college level come into NFL and the game is MUCH TOO FAST for them(cough cough heath schuler) ....this kid played and Produced and got better as season went on....Why? The game was slowing down for him and as it continues to slow for him he will get better..Cassel's career is already a ONE ina Thousand for his accomplishment....the kid can hands down play...Hands down.....

You can't base a player's career on one year's production. We'll see how he plays next year for the Chiefs.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:18 pm

It will never happen but I would love to get Cutler. He is way better than JC.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:43 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:It will never happen but I would love to get Cutler. He is way better than JC.

Never know .... I mean Cutler is totally po'd with the new regime now, and apparently the new regime wasn't all that hot on him, otherwise he wouldn't have been on the block.

I know this might seem crazy to some, but if I had the power, I'd be on the horn with Denver working a package deal with Campbell and 2010 pick for Cutler.

Right now, I think Cutler is the best young unhappy QB in the league, and would be THE MISSING LINK for this team. Think about last year's D with Haynesworth wreaking havoc, and an offense with a top flight young QB like Cutler.

MakeRomoCry · Post by **MakeRomoCry** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:06 pm

Lets give Jason another year. I think he's shown the ability to play better and raise his game from year to year despite not having stability in any particular system. While he did not light up the scoreboard last season, he rarely turned the ball over and completed over 60% of his passes which is what you would expect in a west coast scheme. If we further solidify the O line as we are expected to do, than I can see great things from Jason especially with another year to grow and progress with his surrounding cast in the same offense. It took Zorn three years to mold Matt Hasselbeck into a pro bowler, I'm predicting Campbell with his atheleticism, ability to learn and history of winning will respond much sooner and with greater stride.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:54 pm

If the chiefs had gotten just Cassel for an early second rounder, the Patriots would have been getting away with murder. But Vrabel evens it out a little. If you put any QB with any clue at all in that offense they will play well. Let's see how he does in KC. The Broncos are idiots if they don't want Cutler. I have been a supporter of JC, who i think can be league average or late top ten-ish, but Cutler is special. He would not be cheap though.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:58 pm

num1skinsfan · Post by **num1skinsfan** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:41 pm

JC is going to be OK. We need to get him a big #2 wideout to keep drives alive. We have continuity with him and Clinton, we have addessed the OL, now we need a wideout... Moss is a great wideout, NOT a possesion receiver... need someone that will catch the 3rd & 8 and draw some attention away from Moss

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:04 pm

num1skinsfan wrote:JC is going to be OK. We need to get him a big #2 wideout to keep drives alive. We have continuity with him and Clinton, we have addessed the OL, now we need a wideout... Moss is a great wideout, NOT a possesion receiver... need someone that will catch the 3rd & 8 and draw some attention away from Moss

Really, Moss should be a slot receiver like Welker. They aren't tall enough to be a consistent deep threat, and are better off creating lateral separation. Unlike Welker, Moss can't catch. But he would still be effective in the slot. Randle El should be on the bench. Thomas may develop into a starter, but Kelly will most likely have to retire this year. The Skins SHOULD be far from done at WR. I would be seriously thinking about that in the third round if i were them. And in free agency, although housh is probly out of the question now. There might be someone with some upside in the third round. I fully expect WR to be the weakest position on the field this year.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:09 pm

brad7686 wrote:
num1skinsfan wrote:JC is going to be OK. We need to get him a big #2 wideout to keep drives alive. We have continuity with him and Clinton, we have addessed the OL, now we need a wideout... Moss is a great wideout, NOT a possesion receiver... need someone that will catch the 3rd & 8 and draw some attention away from Moss

Really, Moss should be a slot receiver like Welker. They aren't tall enough to be a consistent deep threat, and are better off creating lateral separation. Unlike Welker, Moss can't catch. But he would still be effective in the slot. Randle El should be on the bench. Thomas may develop into a starter, but Kelly will most likely have to retire this year. The Skins SHOULD be far from done at WR. I would be seriously thinking about that in the third round if i were them. And in free agency, although housh is probly out of the question now. There might be someone with some upside in the third round. I fully expect WR to be the weakest position on the field this year.

You all crack me up with how none of our receivers can catch. Moss can't catch, ARE can't catch, Rod Gardner only caught 50% of his catch-able balls (which is total BS) It is all crap! ARE simply doesn't have a problem with drops,! Yes he has drops some in very bad spots but he is fairly reliable. Moss goes through spurts. He will have one or two bad games and then catch almost everything the rest of the year. These guys aren't TO is or B. Edwards! They don't usually have a problem with drops, but all anyone remembers is the drops! Santana officially has 8 drops, that tied him for 7th in the NFL with 7 other players. ARE wasn't even in the list of worst 37.

Both of them had to adjust to many very poorly thrown balls, which brings me back to the topic of this post. I would swap Cutler for JC straight up. But if we did a trade with Denver, history says we we get hosed. We would swap JC and our 1st rounder to get Cutler. I we worked a deal with Denver. They would give us the short end of the stick until it knocked our teeth out from the inside.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:36 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
num1skinsfan wrote:JC is going to be OK. We need to get him a big #2 wideout to keep drives alive. We have continuity with him and Clinton, we have addessed the OL, now we need a wideout... Moss is a great wideout, NOT a possesion receiver... need someone that will catch the 3rd & 8 and draw some attention away from Moss

Really, Moss should be a slot receiver like Welker. They aren't tall enough to be a consistent deep threat, and are better off creating lateral separation. Unlike Welker, Moss can't catch. But he would still be effective in the slot. Randle El should be on the bench. Thomas may develop into a starter, but Kelly will most likely have to retire this year. The Skins SHOULD be far from done at WR. I would be seriously thinking about that in the third round if i were them. And in free agency, although housh is probly out of the question now. There might be someone with some upside in the third round. I fully expect WR to be the weakest position on the field this year.

You all crack me up with how none of our receivers can catch. Moss can't catch, ARE can't catch, Rod Gardner only caught 50% of his catch-able balls (which is total BS) It is all crap! ARE simply doesn't have a problem with drops,! Yes he has drops some in very bad spots but he is fairly reliable. Moss goes through spurts. He will have one or two bad games and then catch almost everything the rest of the year. These guys aren't TO is or B. Edwards! They don't usually have a problem with drops, but all anyone remembers is the drops! Santana officially has 8 drops, that tied him for 7th in the NFL with 7 other players. ARE wasn't even in the list of worst 37.

Both of them had to adjust to many very poorly thrown balls, which brings me back to the topic of this post. I would swap Cutler for JC straight up. But if we did a trade with Denver, history says we we get hosed. We would swap JC and our 1st rounder to get Cutler. I we worked a deal with Denver. They would give us the short end of the stick until it knocked our teeth out from the inside.

If you watch the chargers, almost every ball Phillip Rivers throws needs adjusting to. Yet he had a monster season, because he has massive targets with good hands. Campbell was third in the country in completion percentage the year he graduated. Campbell does make errors from time to time, but most QB's are worse. They just have receivers who can adjust to the ball. Think about it this way. The team drafted two WR's last year, only one of which will be on the field, and he might not do much anyway. Therefore, WR is STILL the weakest position on the team. You can't compare Moss' drops to TO's, because TO is targeted more and makes more tough catches than Moss ever will. Moss always is near the lead in drops AND never makes a tough catch. How is that productive? ARE had mediocre hands, below-average size, and lacks the gamebreaking ability of Moss. He would not start for most teams. All that considered, I would take Cutler for the right price. I'm just saying that JC isn't the big problem on offense. He's probably third after WR and the O-line.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:33 pm

brad7686 wrote:You can't compare Moss' drops to TO's, because TO is targeted more and makes more tough catches than Moss ever will. Moss always is near the lead in drops AND never makes a tough catch. How is that productive?

What do you consider "a lot more"? Last year TO had TWO more balls thrown at him than Moss did! TO was the target of 140 passes and Moss was the target of 138. So those two extra passes counted for the extra drops? TO had his lostest number of drops in years last year and almost stayed in the single digits but he still had more drops than Moss. TO had 71 passes thrown his way that he didn't catch (ten were considered drops). Moss had 59 passes thrown to him, but only eight were considered drops and this was a bad year for Moss. And as I previously stated this was one of TO's better years.

You simply have a faulty memory if you can't rember Moss not catching tough catches.

Moss also had more YAC than TO.
Funny you know who was third in the entire league in YAC? Chris Cool

ey! Not bad for a TE.

SoulDOut · Post by **SoulDOut** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:22 am

JCutler to the skins? interesting, but dunno if he's a Zorn kinda player. wonder if Zorn was able to give any input to FO in regards to a trade for him?(also would JCutler be willing to 'fit under the cap' as well?)

imho Oline/Dline, QB, Punter/Kicker, then WR would be the order. the WRs outnumber the QBs so to say 1-2 were bad at catching is one thing, but for all of them? isn't that kinda far fetched?

having said that, this is a new system for the QB, so i'd hold for at least til mid-season to give him a chance. otherwise if he hasnt grasped it by then, I still say he should sit on sideline like McNabb did to see what could be the problems.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:38 am

Kelly will most likely have to retire this year.

What...how can you make a statement like that??

funbunch65 · Post by **funbunch65** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:27 am

num1skinsfan wrote:JC is going to be OK. We need to get him a big #2 wideout to keep drives alive. We have continuity with him and Clinton, we have addessed the OL, now we need a wideout... Moss is a great wideout, NOT a possesion receiver... need someone that will catch the 3rd & 8 and draw some attention away from Moss

Campbell is going to be ok.... definitely didn't base that comment on a year to year improvement.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:16 am

num1skinsfan wrote:JC is going to be OK. We need to get him a big #2 wideout to keep drives alive. We have continuity with him and Clinton, we have addessed the OL, now we need a wideout... Moss is a great wideout, NOT a possesion receiver... need someone that will catch the 3rd & 8 and draw some attention away from Moss

"JC is going to be ok..."

You're basing this on what exactly?

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:59 am

Jay Cutler got his panties in a wad.

Seriously, he heard that the Broncos were talking to teams about trading him...and now his feelings are hurt and he doesn't want to talk with the team anymore.

Waaaah!

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:00 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
brad7686 wrote:You can't compare Moss' drops to TO's, because TO is targeted more and makes more tough catches than Moss ever will. Moss always is near the lead in drops AND never makes a tough catch. How is that productive?

What do you consider "a lot more"? Last year TO had TWO more balls thrown at him than Moss did! TO was the target of 140 passes and Moss was the target of 138. So those two extra passes counted for the extra drops? TO had his lostest number of drops in years last year and almost stayed in the single digits but he still had more drops than Moss. TO had 71 passes thrown his way that he didn't catch (ten were considered drops). Moss had 59 passes thrown to him, but only eight were considered drops and this was a bad year for Moss. And as I previously stated this was one of TO's better years.

You simply have a faulty memory if you can't rember Moss not catching tough catches.

Moss also had more YAC than TO.
Funny you know who was third in the entire league in YAC? Chris ey! Not bad for a TE.

If you want to sit here and make an argument that Moss is as good as T.O., I'm not even going to argue with you. That's insane. If they both drop a lot of passes, it is a weakness for both of them. Of course Moss has more yac, he's in a west coast offense, which i think suits his slot receiver abilities. What about YPC? I want you to tell me a time you saw Moss catch a pass he had to dive for or jump for. He also misjudges comeback routes so that he has to jump when they would hit him in the chest, if he knew where the ball was going. At least Moss has speed, which gives him more of an excuse for having bad hands than the rest of the team. My point is, you can't have three Moss' on your team. Until a reliable possession target arises other than Cool

ey (who dropped more passes than usual), We will still stall on third downs.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:02 pm

DEHog wrote:
Kelly will most likely have to retire this year.

What...how can you make a statement like that??

He's had knee surgery how many times? lavar

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:04 pm

PulpExposure wrote:Jay Cutler got his panties in a wad.

Seriously, he heard that the Broncos were talking to teams about trading him...and now his feelings are hurt and he doesn't want to talk with the team anymore.

Waaaah!

Yea he's being a baby. They wanted to trade him to the lions and replace him with a career backup. He's got no reason to be mad.

In all seriousness, he probably does have a little reason to be upset. Hearing the lions in a sentence is terrifying.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:09 pm

brad7686 wrote:
DEHog wrote:
Kelly will most likely have to retire this year.

What...how can you make a statement like that??

He's had knee surgery how many times? lavar

According to Zorn at the combine, he's expected to be fine.

Zorn said Kelly underwent an arthroscopic knee procedure — which was less extensive than the team believed would be required — at the end of the season in an effort to be completely healthy for training camp. Kelly is expected to return in time for a portion of organized team activities.

brad7686 wrote:Yea he's being a baby. They wanted to trade him to the lions and replace him with a career backup. He's got no reason to be mad.

In all seriousness, he probably does have a little reason to be upset. Hearing the lions in a sentence is terrifying.

Sure, he has reason to be upset. But...he's a grown man, a professional. Trade rumors are part of the game. But the way he's reacting is like a baby. He's not returning calls from his team, because they listened to other teams making offers for him? In essence, his reaction is no more than the silent treatment I sometimes get from my 3 year old does when I discipline him. But Cutler is 25 years old.

Don Banks has it right:

What has Jay Cutler really done in Denver that would give him the right to get all huffy about the Broncos even entertaining trade offers for him? The bottom line is they didn't deal you, J.C., and other teams approached them with the trade scenarios. Relax.