OT or LB??

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:57 am

After the three signings at very key positions, this leaves us with a handful of mediocre free agent possibilities and the draft. In a perfect world, we could still get a RG, RT, and OLB. Seems more likely that RThomas will return which leaves us with the next RT and an OLB. With the signing of Albert to occupy blockers, is it possible to get an OLB in the third round who can start right away? Perhaps we draft a stud LB with the 13th and there isn't much of a dropoff for available OT's by the third round, or even trade back for a couple of picks between the two. What would you do with these picks?

BurgundyandGoldfaith · Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:06 pm

If it were me, I'm afraid the four top tier OT's are gone by 13 and I go LB like Orakpo, Cushing, or Ray Maualuga and target a guy like Phil Loadholdt, who is projected as a RT but has the size (6-8 345) to cover up mistakes. If Either Oher, Andre Smith, Jason Smith, or Eugene Monroe are there at 13, take the best available and go for a LB who can shine behind Haynesworth. In other words, I like to BPA at one of the two positions in the worst shape. I just hope we don't fall in love with some TE at 13 or just go BPA all four picks

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:42 pm

If NFL ratings by position are something to go by, we're solid with Samuels and Dockery (both in top ten for their position), mediocre with Rabach (in the high twenties) and very weak with Thomas and Jansen (both in the fifties). To my mind it's dangerous to be so weak on one side-- much more so than to have one relatively weak linebacker. I think we should grab any of the top 4 OT's still left at 13 , an OG afterward, and pick up a vet LB on FA whom we can replace next year.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:43 pm

If NFL ratings by position are something to go by, we're solid with Samuels and Dockery (both in top ten for their position), mediocre with Rabach (in the high twenties) and very weak with Thomas and Jansen (both in the fifties). To my mind it's dangerous to be so weak on one side-- much more so than to have one relatively weak linebacker. I think we should grab any of the top 4 OT's still left at 13 , an OG afterward, and pick up a vet LB on FA whom we can replace next year.

Jeff Rhodes · Post by **Jeff Rhodes** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:08 pm

I like your general idea. There are just too many elements of chance in it for a percentage player like me.

I'd be nervous, for example, assuming Orakpo could make the transition from hand-down DE in college to NFL Sam linebacker right out of the gate. It also seems a bit chancy to count on finding a starting-caliber OT in the third round. It's certainly possible, and I agree with your theory on a guy like Loadholdt having the size to overcome his other shortcomings. But what if someone else falls in love with him and takes him in the second round? If I'm counting on handing a rookie third-rounder a starting job, it had better be the guy I want, not the guy who's left when I get around to picking.

My preference would be to trade down a few slots and maybe pick up a second rounder. The way Andre Smith botched the combine last week, I could see him falling to the 20th pick, and he could almost certainly step in immediately for Jansen at RT. Then you could use your second rounder on a linebacker and your third rounder on another OT, like maybe Loadholdt, just to hedge your bet.

But it takes two to trade, and there's no guarantee anyone behind you would want to move up that much. So if it were me, I'd tentatively plan on taking the best OT I could at No. 13 and, in the meantime, signing a smart veteran linebacker for the league minimum plus incentives, just in case you can't find someone in the draft who's capable of starting right now. Signing a stopgap linebacker buys you a little time so you don't necessarily have to find a starter at that position in the draft.

A guy like, say, Marcus Washington would fill the bill nicely.

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:09 pm

We need help along the O-Line first and foremost. RT is the position that is the biggest hole to fill. If we can, we need to draft guys that work in the trenches, because we will still be mediocre if we cannot control the line of scrimmage. Defensively we look a lot better than offensively.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:30 pm

I wouldn't mind the 'skins picking up Cato June and then drafting an OT with 13 or trading down if there is no OTs worth 13

Californiaskin · Post by **Californiaskin** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:35 pm

i dont like our F/O s ability to draft a quality oline at #3 (rihnehart) We could really use 1 more stud in that o line..as much as I hate to see it I think we need to bring kendall back for depth and draft a OT at 13

dad23hogjrs · Post by **dad23hogjrs** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:46 pm

Dump Taylor

Sign Crowell/June whoever works out better. re-sign Khary Campbell for vet min. (M washington was mentioned...if he's able to swallow his pride and play for vet min plus incentives you let him do it)

Sign Daniels for vet min, Re-sign Evans after he finds out there is no market for him.

13 is a Tackle, 80 is a linebacker

If you can get a trade partner to move back i'd rather move back to range to take Beatty out of Connecticut than Andre Smith (dont trust that guy) You'll be further back which means higher yield on the other side of the trade, and given the choice between the two, Beatty is going to be a more "dependable" pro.

if no trades you let Blades, the FA pick up, Campbell, and Pick 80 compete in camp. Maybe you find the best guy, maybe each guy has a strength and you play them based on formation (there seem to be less and less 3 down backers in this league every year)

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:52 pm

All 4 OT's should not be gone. Oher is good enough to go that high IMO. OLB is a much better place to sign a stopgap than OT. If we do well next year and have a late pick, there is much more likely going to be a good OLB than OT available. As far as pick 80 goes, you take the best player available unless you are stacked at that position. 3rd round is too late to project your picks as starters at most positions, so you take whatever player you think has the best chance to contribute. If tackle is somehow resolved before the draft, or Vinny doesn't like who is there, one of Orakpo, Brown, Maybin should be available.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:23 pm

I think we'll be fine with Heyer and Thomas on the right. I won't be upset if they trade down or go for a RT/LB.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:04 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I think we'll be fine with Heyer and Thomas on the right.

Yes, I'm sure that, somehow, that duo will magically work better next year.

Not.

If it was going to be an effective tandem, it would have shown last year... obviously, it didn't work. Heyer is depth, nothing more.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:11 pm

Wouldn't mind if we draft a LB..... we gotta get better cuz M. Wash was pretty much WASHED UP.........

Love you Marcus, but NFL stands for Not For Long.....

Wahoo McDaniels · Post by **Wahoo McDaniels** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:37 pm

Trade #13 for (hopefully) multiple picks and put the responsibility on the Scouting Dept. to find some late round talent.

Ummmm....on second thought, let's trade the pick for an established player in a favorable contract situation (favorable for the Skins that is). Our scouting dept. is deficient at best, incompetent at worst. 8 picks and the only contribution we got was from our 7th round draft pick who is a great run stuffer and can catch balls thrown directly at him, but is terrible in coverage...almost Archuleta-esque. We have to get better production from our scouting dept.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I think we'll be fine with Heyer and Thomas on the right.

Yes, I'm sure that, somehow, that duo will magically work better next year.

Not.

If it was going to be an effective tandem, it would have shown last year... obviously, it didn't work. Heyer is depth, nothing more.

Yeah, Heyer is a disaster as a full-time starter at RT. That should have been made eminently clear.

djlash · Post by **djlash** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:20 pm

[quote="dad23hogjrs"]Dump Taylor

Sign Crowell/June whoever works out better. re-sign Khary Campbell for vet min. (M washington was mentioned...if he's able to swallow his pride and play for vet min plus incentives you let him do it)

Sign Daniels for vet min, Re-sign Evans after he finds out there is no market for him.

13 is a Tackle, 80 is a linebacker

I agree with trying to take a tackle at 13. If none of the 4 guys are available then I say you take a LB such as Orakapor or Ray Maleuga. Orkapor could switch between DE and LB with Taylor. That would be nasty. I think we should swap Carter and Taylor now that we have Haynesworth.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:55 pm

I'm still holding out hope for Heyer, he showed a lot of promise and I think he could be a good thing for us.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:47 pm

Was Heyer the starter on the right side during the second half of the season, or was it Jansen? If my memory serves me, it was Jansen. Heyer got promoted by Zorn and Buges over Jansen earlier in the season but was sidelined by an injury. I believe Jansen played the rest of the season if I'm not mistaken. The o-line actually played better in the first half of the season when Heyer was playing, but slipped quite a bit in the second half of the season when Jansen was playing.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:42 pm

While I am hopeful of Heyer lifting his game some the offense has a bunch of concerns - the fact that we were 6-2 and the 2-6 has very little to do with the line per se but rather the whole offense.

The line is too old and even after adding Dockery we still are going to have issues with both the RT slot and the age factor over the course of a season.

We also have issues with:
#1 WR - Moss is a very good #2 we need a #1 - better hope Thomas or Kelly step up big time or we need to find someone
QB - Campbell better be all that some here think or it will not matter if the hogs are in front of him
Zorn - he better start being a lot better in game planning and play calling or all the above will not matter either.

I hope some here are starting to get the picture - we have a lot of concerns on offense :roll:

redskins14ru · Post by **redskins14ru** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:34 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm still holding out hope for Heyer, he showed a lot of promise and I think he could be a good thing for us.

heyer will play right tackel and samuel will play left tackel
and at gaurd on the left will be dockary and on the right will thomas that leaves rabach for the center position someone please correct me if this is wrong

redskins14ru · Post by **redskins14ru** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:38 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Was Heyer the starter on the right side during the second half of the season, or was it Jansen? If my memory serves me, it was Jansen. Heyer got promoted by Zorn and Buges over Jansen earlier in the season but was sidelined by an injury. I believe Jansen played the rest of the season if I'm not mistaken. The o-line actually played better in the first half of the season when Heyer was playing, but slipped quite a bit in the second half of the season when Jansen was playing.

I loved the play of heyer last season he was filling in and even starting alot he was a good blocker with the addition of dockary i think he will be even better and there is some depth there it looks to me like the oline is in decent shape I hope we draft another ot at 13 too it will make a very competetive situation and bugel is a master unless he goes and I have heard no word of that coaching change only tight ends coach

SoulDOut · Post by **SoulDOut** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:45 am

though help is HEAVILY needed on both lines, honestly/ideally, i'd say take "best available" talent at 13. (if not see if you can find someone['sucker'?] to give a 2'fer for 13 instead.)

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:21 am

redskins14ru wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm still holding out hope for Heyer, he showed a lot of promise and I think he could be a good thing for us.

heyer will play right tackel and samuel will play left tackel
and at gaurd on the left will be dockary and on the right will thomas that leaves rabach for the center position someone please correct me if this is wrong

That's right but tragically wrong. If it stays that way we be lucky to finish 8-8 and average about 17 points a game. Thomas is through, Raback barely holds his own, and Heyer is a career backup with physical limitations.

Britskin · Post by **Britskin** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:25 am

I agree that the choice about what to do with our 1st and 3rd round picks seems to be between RT and OLB but personally i`m also wondering about safety. Horton and Moore both brought something last season but what if season 2 proves more difficult for them - what do we do then? So I think we have 3 positions of need and 2 picks.
If we use pick 13 I think we use it on the offense as a lot of our best Ist rnd picks have been used on the defense over the past 5-6 years - Taylor, Rogers Landry. However, if we do decide to use it and the top tackles have been taken by then all bets are off as to where we might use it - maybe HB ,WR or ( just playing with ideas) maybe even QB as I don`t think JC is untouchable and his contract is down to 1 year.
My hunch is that we will trade down a few spots in the 1st rnd to pick up a second rounder or another 3rd to try to cover our needs at RT,LB and Safety.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:48 am

SkinsFreak wrote:Was Heyer the starter on the right side during the second half of the season, or was it Jansen? If my memory serves me, it was Jansen. Heyer got promoted by Zorn and Buges over Jansen earlier in the season but was sidelined by an injury. I believe Jansen played the rest of the season if I'm not mistaken. The o-line actually played better in the first half of the season when Heyer was playing, but slipped quite a bit in the second half of the season when Jansen was playing.

We couldn't run at all with Heyer at RT.

Jansen can't passblock.

Too bad we can't put them in a Blend-O-Matic and make 1 real RT.

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OT or LB??

What is best solution for the Redskins?

OT or LB??