Will JC do better than last year?

[fleetus]

ARE would be unstoppable if he was hit in stride but he's not.

CLL - sorry to be picking on you so much, but you're tossing some doozies around. ARE - unstoppable? Did he ever even return a punt for than 3 yards before he flopped to the ground?

Someone on here a few months ago summed up ARE the best I've heard anywhere. he said:

ARE has the indecision of a squirrel that is in the middle of the road and there is a car barreling down on him, you know, should i run that way, no, this way, no, that way, this way, that way, splat!

To summarize, I do believe JC has much to prove and DOES NOT deserve the starting job unless he wins it in camp. That said, after the O-line, the next biggest glaring weakness on this team is the WR corps, period.

[CanesSkins26]

Moss is still a burner and has been underutilized his ENTIRE tenure here because of shotty QB play.

Here's a couple of articles from the past two years showing Moss as a habitual pass dropper. If we were a high flying passing team like Arizona or New England, maybe a burner like Moss dropping passes would not absolutely kill the offense. but when you predicate your offense on ball control with Portis, you can't have your #1 WR forcing the punt team on the field all game long.

Read these for some perspective:

http://ind.scout.com/2/706647.html

http://profootball.scout.com/2/687001.html

Now, before all you Moss-lovers start flaming, I'll add that, like everything in football, it takes a team to win. Offensive line didn't block well and that is a glaring weakness right now. JC didn't take over any games on his own either. But when a WR drops a pass, there isn't anyone else there we can blame that on. Also, the stat for a "dropped pass" is basically when the ball hits them in the numbers and they drop it. All of those other multitudes of passes that Moss didn't catch are simply recorded as incompletions. Coincidentally, ey, catching passes from the same QB was near the top of the league in % of passes caught. Draw your own conclusions...

For starters, your stats are from 2007. Everyone here knows that Moss had a sub-par year in 2007 and was hurt by injuries. He has himself come out and said that that season was not up to his standards. Calling him a "habitual" pass dropper because of one poor season is absurd. Your stats do nothing to make a case for JC being hurt by drops during the 2008 season. Yes ARE had his share of drops but JC also consistently made poor reads and throws.

Second of all, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to prove with your stats. The article that you cite shows that in 2007 the Saints had two of the most drop-prone players in the NFL with Henderson and Bush being tied for the NFL lead in dropped passes. However, in 2007 the Saints had the 3rd best passing offense in the NFL and Drew Brees had the 3rd highest completion percentage among NFL qbs. So again, I'm not exactly sure what your point is with the drops. The Saints had more drops than anybody yet they still had one of the best passing attacks in the league and their qb completed 67.5% of his passes.

[fleetus]

ARE would be unstoppable if he was hit in stride but he's not.

CLL - sorry to be picking on you so much, but you're tossing some doozies around. ARE - unstoppable? Did he ever even return a punt for than 3 yards before he flopped to the ground?

Someone on here a few months ago summed up ARE the best I've heard anywhere. he said:

ARE has the indecision of a squirrel that is in the middle of the road and there is a car barreling down on him, you know, should i run that way, no, this way, no, that way, this way, that way, splat!

To summarize, I do believe JC has much to prove and DOES NOT deserve the starting job unless he wins it in camp. That said, after the O-line, the next biggest glaring weakness on this team is the WR corps, period.

Okay, my bad, they were from 2007. How's this, in 2008, Moss was 7th in the NFL for dropped passes. And really, do i need to tell you this? If you watched the team in 2007 or 2008, it was painfully obvious that not only is Moss a small target who is ineffective in the red zone, but he is not gifted with great hands. Seldom does he reach out and snag a pass outside of his body. He'd be a nifty 2nd or 3rd receiver, but unfortunately he is our #1 WR and paid like one too. That is not his fault, but it is a fact.

[Chris Luva Luva]

CLL - sorry to be picking on you so much, but you're tossing some doozies around. ARE - unstoppable? Did he ever even return a punt for than 3 yards before he flopped to the ground?

He's garbage on PR. But hitting a WR in stride who only has to juke 2-3 peoples is different than having an entire squad of men coming at you while you're stationary.

I'm not saying he'd be the best WR in the league but he'd be viable AT LEAST.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Okay, my bad, they were from 2007. How's this, in 2008, Moss was 7th in the NFL for dropped passes. And really, do i need to tell you this? If you watched the team in 2007 or 2008, it was painfully obvious that not only is Moss a small target who is ineffective in the red zone, but he is not gifted with great hands. Seldom does he reach out and snag a pass outside of his body. He'd be a nifty 2nd or 3rd receiver, but unfortunately he is our #1 WR and paid like one too. That is not his fault, but it is a fact.

Moss will be a weapon on ANY team that was halfway competent. He's just another player that is horribly missued. Add him to the already growing list of players.

I agree that Moss isn't a #1 WR. SO WHY CAN'T THE REDSKINS FIGURE THAT OUT? It's not his fault.

I agree that he's ineffective in the redzone, so why did it take the Skins so long to get a big WR??!?! That's not HIS FAULT?!?!

He is being MISSUSED! He's a legit threat WHEN USED PROPERLY and given a QB who can throw!

[VetSkinsFan]

CLL - sorry to be picking on you so much, but you're tossing some doozies around. ARE - unstoppable? Did he ever even return a punt for than 3 yards before he flopped to the ground?

He's garbage on PR. But hitting a WR in stride who only has to juke 2-3 peoples is different than having an entire squad of men coming at you while you're stationary.

I'm not saying he'd be the best WR in the league but he'd be viable AT LEAST.

Moss should be doing PR. PERIOD.

[Chris Luva Luva]

CLL - sorry to be picking on you so much, but you're tossing some doozies around. ARE - unstoppable? Did he ever even return a punt for than 3 yards before he flopped to the ground?

He's garbage on PR. But hitting a WR in stride who only has to juke 2-3 peoples is different than having an entire squad of men coming at you while you're stationary.

I'm not saying he'd be the best WR in the league but he'd be viable AT LEAST.

Moss should be doing PR. PERIOD.

Well. I don't disagree with that at all. Why he wasn't put back there last year is beyond me. And to be quite honest I'm sure ARE will be back at PR next year.

[tcwest10]

CLL, you asked and answered your own question on the same page. Without meaning to insult your intelligence, can I state the obvious? 'tana is considered the #1 receiver, right? You never see a smart coach put his #1 receiver on punt returns full-time. You know that, and you know why, too! It's because A.) You don't want to wear him out (and with our defense, there were plenty of punts this year) when you might need him in the 3rd and 4th, and B.) He might just get himself killed back there.
Go back through my posts for proof if you must, but I'm consistently on record as being anti-ARE on PR, because his forward progress is negated by his running backwards, waiting for that perfect seam to open up. Only in the later games did somebody put a stop to that by telling him (and I'm just guessing here) to catch the ball and protect it if there's no immediate downfield blocking for you.
The truth is there, if you'll see it. JC is no Montana...but our WR Corps wasn't the Posse, either. We need more tall targets, and I hope it's Kelly and Thomas.
Everybody needs to improve in order for us to move past mediocrity.

[Chris Luva Luva]

So what if he's our #1... He's our number one on paper but he's not being utilized. We'd get more use out of him at PR and prolly more points.

What's it gonna hurt? Are we gonna lose? LOL

[brad7686]

ARE would be unstoppable if he was hit in stride but he's not.

CLL - sorry to be picking on you so much, but you're tossing some doozies around. ARE - unstoppable? Did he ever even return a punt for than 3 yards before he flopped to the ground?

Someone on here a few months ago summed up ARE the best I've heard anywhere. he said:

ARE has the indecision of a squirrel that is in the middle of the road and there is a car barreling down on him, you know, should i run that way, no, this way, no, that way, this way, that way, splat!

To summarize, I do believe JC has much to prove and DOES NOT deserve the starting job unless he wins it in camp. That said, after the O-line, the next biggest glaring weakness on this team is the WR corps, period.

Okay, my bad, they were from 2007. How's this, in 2008, Moss was 7th in the NFL for dropped passes. And really, do i need to tell you this? If you watched the team in 2007 or 2008, it was painfully obvious that not only is Moss a small target who is ineffective in the red zone, but he is not gifted with great hands. Seldom does he reach out and snag a pass outside of his body. He'd be a nifty 2nd or 3rd receiver, but unfortunately he is our #1 WR and paid like one too. That is not his fault, but it is a fact.

I thought I was the only one who noticed this. I'm relieved to know I'm not insane. I was beginning to think he makes Larry Fitz seem ineffective from reading this board too long.

[RayNAustin]

Open training camp competition is right where I stand. However, if Campbell wins the competition, I wonder how you're going to react...

I can't speak for RayNAustin, but I'm not sure what exactly an open competition would prove. Collins is old and struggled picking up Zorn's system more than JC in training camp last year. I think that most of us would agree that at this point the Skins should be rebuilding to some degree so there would really be no benefit to Collins winning the job. Brennan may have some potential but I think that he is a long term project and highly doubt that he would win the job. Unfortunately, despite JC's rather pathetic play last season, he is most likely the best option on the team right now. I would love to see us draft a qb this year, but with limited picks and numerous holes to fill that isn't a very realistic option.

OK, you finally came around to see the light on Campbell, but back then you were still on the Jason band wagon, and you apparently only remember your own propaganda from that point in time. Let me correct you again:

Preseason, Campbell was the worst of the three QB's statistically, and again, got worse each game, in spite of the fact that he was the hands down chosen starter before hand and got most of the reps and attention in practices from Zorn. He started out reasonably well, going 12 for 15 and 132 yards in the first 2 preseason games. That's when Cinderella turned into a pumpkin, because in the final 3 games he went 11 of 24 (45%) and 69 yards. Wooohoo, he da man!

Collins, being the defacto back up got much less work or Zorn attention in practice, and Brennan even less, yet both of them out performed Campbell, and both of them not only appeared to be more comfortable with the offense, but proved it statistically. Here are the actual numbers:

Campbell 23 of 39, 202 yards 1 TD's - 1 int 58.9 comp %

Collins 33 of 47, 260 yards 1 TD - 1 int 70.2 comp %

Brennan 36 of 53, 411 yards 3 TD - 0 int 67.9 comp %

So I'm not sure how anyone can say that Collins struggled even worse than Campbell. I've heard that from others here, and it just isn't true. Not a fact one to back up such a statement.

In fact, I remember Campbell being played an additional series in game 4 because he was struggling so much and Zorn wanted to try to get him into some kind of rhythm. Zorn put him in in game 5 (when everyone else was resting their starters) just to try and build some confidence. After going 1 for 4 and 3 yards, they pulled him out so as not to make bad, worse. He followed the preseason up with a similarly pathetic performance on opening day against the Gnats.

So, I'm sorry. Truth be told, the only QB Campbell beat out in camp was Miss Opal Devine.

[SkinsJock]

I agree with tcw's point that Campbell will definetly benefit IF one of the 2 wideouts (Thomas or Kelly) develops to the point that he can be our #1 WR and Moss can be what he really is and that is a really good #2 WR

... We need more tall targets, and I hope it's Kelly and Thomas.

the reality is also

Everybody needs to improve in order for us to move past mediocrity.

I still think that Campbell will be better but he's not good enough - even during the first half of 2008 there were a number of us here who were concerned about his play at QB - oh sure, you had the stupid JLC stating that it was "all because we had a QB that didn't turn the ball over ..." but there were a number of fans who were still concerned with his reads and how long he took to make a decision.

The guy is good but he's not special.

[SkinsFreak]

He is being MISSUSED! He's a legit threat WHEN USED PROPERLY and given a QB who can throw!

Explain how Moss is being misused. I actually think JC throws at him too often, but I'm not sure how he is being misused. You keep saying he's not a legit #1, but what does that mean? They motion and move him around all the time, therefore, many times he's in the slot, if that's what you're getting at.

If you haven't noticed, Moss draws double and triple teams all the time, due to the respect he garners from opposing defensive coordinators. Therefore, you can't just use him in a single fashion, like exclusively using his speed for deep routes all the time. Corners and safeties double him up to prevent the deep threat. Therefore, you have to move him around and use him on a variety of patterns, and the coaches have wisely done that.

Moss catches passes in all areas of the field; short, intermediate and long. And although he has dropped quite a few, he's also been decent at making catches for 1st downs, as 50 of his 79 catches went for 1st downs. Moss was a 1,000+ receiver in 2008, having his best season since 2005. I don't think fleetus was necessarily hacking on Moss, just adding further evidence that the offensive struggles aren't solely JC's fault.

[langleyparkjoe]

Just saw this on Rotoworld

Jason Campbell-QB- Redskins Feb. 6 - 12:41 pm et

The National Football Post's Michael Lombardi believes the Redskins will be looking for a quarterback a year from now.

Jason Campbell hasn't come close to proving that he deserves to be considered a franchise quarterback. The situation could become contentious, with Campbell's contract up after 2009 and GM Vinny Cerrato refusing to discuss an extension. If Campbell plays well, he'll want to leave. If he disappoints, the 'Skins will want to turn the page.
Source: National Football Post

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3137

We knew that already obviously so this is JC's last chance to stay a Redskin. *sigh*, nice guy, great college QB.. BUT, according to history of Redskins he "may" go on to do big things elsewhere. I'm still rooting for him though, he's wearing #17 for peace sake!!!

[SkinsFreak]

Lombardi has an opinion, just like everyone else, and 'tis the season for speculation. Except Lombardi thinks nearly a third of the league needs a new QB.

Here's another take...

Redskins, Jason Campbell Could Part Ways After '09 Season

Posted Feb 6th 2009 1:55 PM by Ryan Wilson

NFL Rumors

The offseason got underway Thursday, and the Patriots wasted little time in franchising Matt Cassel. What they plan to do with him remains a mystery, but there are plenty of teams in need of quarterback help.

In fact, if you believe National Football Post's Michael Lombardi, nearly a third of NFL franchises could stand an upgrade at the position. The Lions and Vikings top the list, obviously, but Lombardi also thinks the Redskins could be in the market for a new quarterback, if not this offseason, then in a year's time.

"The 'Skins are going to live and die with their current quarterback, Jason Campbell, and have put the word out that they will not be players in the free-agent market. However, they will need to consider making this move and should do their homework before they dismiss the notion of a trade. Trust me on this, a year from now the 'Skins will be looking for a quarterback."

Just to reiterate: the Redskins aren't interested in Cassel, although Lombardi thinks they should be. That's fine -- the offseason's all about speculation, anyway -- but I'm just not sold on Cassel as a legitimate NFL starter. He had a fantastic 2008 season, but there were mitigating circumstances. How do we know he's not the next Derek Anderson? Last offseason, I don't remember many people predicting that Anderson would follow up a Pro Bowl season with a spot-on Charlie Frye impression. And now look at him.

Whatever the future holds for Cassel, it sounds like he won't be in a Redskins uniform. It also sounds like that Campbell has one more year in Washington, regardless of how he plays next season. His contract is set to expire after 2009, and general manager Vinny Cerrato apparently isn't interested in discussing an extension.

No idea how this plays out, but I'll just mention this: midway through the season, when the 'Skins were 6-2, ESPN's Ron Jaworski pegged Campbell as his first-half MVP. Of the entire league. Then the wheels fell off. Still, if I'm running an NFL team and I need a quarterback, there's no way I'm taking Cassel over Campbell. But what do I know, I was shocked Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archuleta didn't work out in Washington. Definitely didn't see that coming.

[Deadskins]

If the Patsies franchised Cassel, doesn't that mean they have to pay him the average of the top 5 QB salaries league-wide? Man, that's a lot of dough for a backup!

[SkinsJock]

If the Patsies franchised Cassel, doesn't that mean they have to pay him the average of the top 5 QB salaries league-wide? Man, that's a lot of dough for a backup!

You're right JSP - I think it's something in the $14 million + range

Fact is if Snyder did something like that the media would portray it as typical overspending but as it is being done by a franchise that is perceived as 'successful' there is not even a mention of this.


I was very excited the last 2 years at this time about our chances for the coming year but now I am hoping we stay the course of no spending and try and get this team into shape for 2011. I thought last year that we were a couple of years away but now I am hopeful that we will be really good again in 2011. I am sorry to say but it is going to take a while to have the sort of team that will continue to be a good young team because we have always felt that we were just a player or 2 away.

I do not think we will be a bad team and might even make the playoffs but I want a team that is good each year and is developing our own talent.

Making the playoffs versus making the Super Bowl is like making the Pro Bowl as a player versus making the All Pro Team. Let's face it the Pro Bowl is a popularity vote and means nothing really - making the All Pro team is a recognition of success.

[SkinsFreak]

If the Patsies franchised Cassel, doesn't that mean they have to pay him the average of the top 5 QB salaries league-wide? Man, that's a lot of dough for a backup!

You're right JSP - I think it's something in the $14 million + range

Yep. I think they franchised Cassel in hopes of some team giving up two 1st rounders for him. If not, the Pat's are on the hook for $14M+ for Cassel. So with Cassel and Brady, the Pat's are spending almost 25% of the total team cap allowance on QB's. The Pat's also drafted a QB (Kevin O'Connell) in the 3rd round last year (94th pick overall).

I think other potential suiters for Cassel will inevitably look at the Derek Anderson, one year wonder, situation and perhaps shy away from giving up two 1st rounders for Cassel.

So when the Pat's don't go hog-wild in free agency, hopefully the masses around here won't start insinuating it pertains to strategy. They simply won't be able to afford it.

[Deadskins]

Maybe it means another year of rehab for Brady.

[SkinsJock]

In the NE area there are still some doubts about Brady - there is that uncomfortable feeling that he might not be 'ready' - this is an area of a lot of rumors and the media are not at all sure what to expect.

[Deadskins]

In the NE area there are still some doubts about Brady - there is that uncomfortable feeling that he might not be 'ready' - this is an area of a lot of rumors and the media are not at all sure what to expect.

Franchising Cassel seems to me to confirm those rumors.