Will JC do better than last year?

[JOSPORTSCO]

I say give Colt a chance.

[fleetus]

I say JC will improve as much as his OL and WR's do. That is the real question. Will the OL and WR's play better next year?

[langleyparkjoe]

JC better than Ben? Maybe the same I think but Ben has showed he can escape a rush pretty good, heck, even when they have the guy by his uniform he still manages to get away and make a play. I think that's why people would say Ben is better. Ben does play what we call "streetball" (romo, favre..) so he will throw the interceptions though.

Will JC be better this year? I've always stood by the guy saying he needs a constant system and this is the year to prove me right. I think he will do better, why do I think that; I honestly don't know, its just my fanhood I guess.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Jason is as good as big Ben? LMAO, you guys are a riot.

Im sure people look at the SB stats and say...."hey!!! 1 TD, 1 INT!!!, those are JC's exact stats!". LOL

- When's the last time Jason broke a tackle?
- When was the last time Jason took the Redskins down the field in ANY game let alone the SUPERBOWL on GAME WINNING DRIVE?
- When's the last time Jason has hit a WR in stride?

There are intangibles that just dont show up in the stat line. Keep smoking that burgundy ganja and keep hope alive. LOLOL

Jason is not big Ben and he's the worst QB in our division.

Will he get better? Who the heck knows, he's a big question mark.

[PulpExposure]

- When's the last time Jason broke a tackle?
- When was the last time Jason took the Redskins down the field in ANY game let alone the SUPERBOWL on GAME WINNING DRIVE?
- When's the last time Jason has hit a WR in stride?

Far as I can tell, he did all of that in the New Orleans game...I think that's the last time I remember him doing it.

[langleyparkjoe]

He's right though, in NFC East he is some crap compared to the others.

[Chris Luva Luva]

- When's the last time Jason broke a tackle?
- When was the last time Jason took the Redskins down the field in ANY game let alone the SUPERBOWL on GAME WINNING DRIVE?
- When's the last time Jason has hit a WR in stride?

Far as I can tell, he did all of that in the New Orleans game...I think that's the last time I remember him doing it.

What was that week 3?

I don't hate the kid and I think it comes off as I hate a player or the team when I'm really attacking the delusional images fans have of them. Jason is not as good as Big Ben. He's not in the same league and you'd get laughed at in your face for saying so in any other venue than a redskins forum. There are idiot Browns fans out there saying the same crap about their QB.

Jason is about as exciting/spicy as regular oatmeal. Get over it.

[RayNAustin]

Well, he could still beat corners by ten or twelve steps at that point, and its pretty easy to catch passes like that. Now that he only gets one or two steps, if that, he often has to go over the defender, which is not an option for him, or make a contested catch, which is not an option for him. If Gibbs ever said Moss has good hands, he has completely ignored drops stats over the years.

Oh, so at 29 years old he has lost 10 steps? Please!!! The reason he winds up having to fight for a ball is due to having to wait on a late and under thrown ball from Campbell. I've seen several plays where Moss makes that double move and is behind the defender only to have to wait on an under thrown ball with no air under it which allows the defender to close the gap and make a play.

Watch the games why don't you.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Well, he could still beat corners by ten or twelve steps at that point, and its pretty easy to catch passes like that. Now that he only gets one or two steps, if that, he often has to go over the defender, which is not an option for him, or make a contested catch, which is not an option for him. If Gibbs ever said Moss has good hands, he has completely ignored drops stats over the years.

Oh, so at 29 years old he has lost 10 steps? Please!!! The reason he winds up having to fight for a ball is due to having to wait on a late and under thrown ball from Campbell. I've seen several plays where Moss makes that double move and is behind the defender only to have to wait on an under thrown ball with no air under it which allows the defender to close the gap and make a play.

Watch the games why don't you.

Thank God someone said it. Jason couldn't hit a wheel chaired man in stride if his life depended on it.

Moss is still a burner and has been underutilized his ENTIRE tenure here because of shotty QB play. THE ONLY TIME HE'S BEEN USED CORRECT WAS WHEN MB USED THE LAST BIT OF STRENGTH IN HIS FEEBLE BODY DOWN IN DALLAS.

Those are the only 2 times I can remember any QB hitting Moss in stride. Jason's deep ball is overrated, vastly so... He has no touch on it.

[RayNAustin]

That's a valid point, Ben does have a knack for scrambling and keeping plays alive, even though I think he did lead the league in sacks. But again, there's extenuating circumstances to consider. Ben seems to avoid tackles in the pocket, and that has been emphasized by the media recently. But how many systems has Ben played in? He knows where a receiver is going to be and therefore can avoid a few tackles to get the ball out. If JC had only played in one system with the Steelers, he very well may have similar confidence in knowing where the receiver will be.

I hate to break the news to you, but Roethlisberger actually started in his rookie year and lead the Steelers to a 15-1 record? And a 15 game win streak (including the playoffs)? He finished the year with a QB rating of 98.1, 17 TD, 11 Int's and a 66.4 completion rate with an average of 8.9 per pass.

Now I'm not entirely certain of this, but I don't recall Ben's offensive coordinator in college being hired on as the Steelers OC. So I think he actually didn't have ANY experience with the Steelers offensive system other than training camp that year.

Hey....maybe that's it? Maybe, if Jason hadn't rode the pine for 1 1/2 years he'd have been the rookie of the year with a 15-1 record. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket, Jason was TOO familiar with the offense. Yeah, it was bench sores that held him back for the following three years.

I don't know. I just think JC's current inabilities has more to do with a lack of confidence from having to learn 3 systems in 4 years and less to do with his legs or physical skills. For me, it seems to be more of a current mental issue rather than a physical issue, and I think he can improve on that.

I agree he has mental issues. But that could be said of anyone thinking that Campbell is qualified to park Big Ben's Benz.

And I'll say it again for the 1000th time. Campbell has played in only 2 systems in three years. He read another playbook for 1 year, but all of his starts in 2006-2007 was under the same ONE system, and he had all of 2006 training camp. plus over half the year in 2006 to become acquainted with the offense. And at the end of that second year (if familiarity with the offense truly is the problem) he still hadn't learned the system well enough, which would suggest that he's to STUPID to play QB.

[SkinsFreak]

When's the last time Jason broke a tackle?

The very last time? Week 17, 4:32 left in the 4th quarter on a 3rd and 8.

- When was the last time Jason took the Redskins down the field in ANY game let alone the SUPERBOWL on GAME WINNING DRIVE?

The entire team did struggle at the end of the season. But there were several games last year in which JC and the offense drove to end the game. There was much talk around here about Zorn having the stones to call plays to keep the drives going to effectively end the game, contrary to the "conservative run, run, run... punt and hope your defense holds" approach Gibbs unsuccessfully employed. JC executed plays and lead those drives. In how many games did JC get the lead late in the 4th quarter only to have the defense give up a game winning drive? The Ravens game quickly comes to mind.

When's the last time Jason has hit a WR in stride?

In every game of the season.

Come on man. It's one thing to have some constructive criticism, it's quite another to endlessly bash him with exaggerations. Listen, the guy struggled down the stretch, we all know that. No one is saying he got snubbed for the Pro Bowl or should be heading to the HoF. Some are simply saying he isn't as bad as a few assert and there's a decent chance he'll improve. That's all anyone is saying. And as far as Ben is concerned, all Brad did is wonder if the Steelers would be as good if JC played for them... on their team. That's not unreasonable.

A little stability system and coaching wise and better play from the o-line and WR's could make a world of difference. That's all some of us are hoping for. If not, Colt can start getting warmed up.

[SkinsFreak]

And I'll say it again for the 1000th time. Campbell has played in only 2 systems in three years. He read another playbook for 1 year, but all of his starts in 2006-2007 was under the same ONE system, and he had all of 2006 training camp. plus over half the year in 2006 to become acquainted with the offense. And at the end of that second year (if familiarity with the offense truly is the problem) he still hadn't learned the system well enough, which would suggest that he's to STUPID to play QB.

That's just stupid. He's had to learn 3 systems in 4 years. The fact that he didn't start in his rookie year means nothing.

Learning his third offense in four NFL seasons, Campbell quickly settled into the West Coast system run by head coach Jim Zorn.

[Champsturf]

When's the last time Jason has hit a WR in stride?

In every game of the season.

THAT is LAUGHABLE. Unless, of course, you're thinking of a 2 yard slant, and even then, I still doubt it happened in every game. MOST of his passes are either behind, short, or over the receivers. Sad, but true.

[RayNAustin]

I think what is being said here is this: Campbell is highly inconsistent except when he's playing badly ... that he does pretty consistently.

It's not just the many long balls that are either over thrown by 10 yards or line drives with no air under them (easy to defend, hard to track and catch) or woefully under thrown allowing a badly beaten defender to recover. No, it's also the the short throws low and in the dirt, or wide and behind. Yeah, the receivers might be able to get a hand on them, but they're poor throws that are difficult to catch and even more difficult to get any yac afterward. The indecision ... the holding the ball too long ... all of this does what? Makes the line look worse than it is ... makes the receivers look like they can't catch, but in reality, it's extremely poor performance from the QB. Those bad throws HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH A PARTICULAR OFFENSIVE SYSTEM. It's a pass, be it Zorn's WC, or Gibbs traditional. It makes NO DIFFERENCE. A bad pass is a bad pass.

Now if you don't agree, fine. Then explain to me why (if it is familiarity with the offensive system that is the problem), why is it then that the more time that goes by, the worse Campbell seems to get?? Why? Answer that one question for me. His first 7 games in 2006 were better statistically than 12 1/2 games in 2007. Why? Shouldn't he have become more familiar with the system after learning and playing in it the previous year?

The pattern that I see shows the same thing happened in 2008. As the year wore on, he seemed to become less comfortable, and less effective. After 4 good games, he struggled with the Rams no-defense, and lays an egg against the no account Browns. And it went down hill from there.

You got some splainin to do Lucy.

[RayNAustin]

And I'll say it again for the 1000th time. Campbell has played in only 2 systems in three years. He read another playbook for 1 year, but all of his starts in 2006-2007 was under the same ONE system, and he had all of 2006 training camp. plus over half the year in 2006 to become acquainted with the offense. And at the end of that second year (if familiarity with the offense truly is the problem) he still hadn't learned the system well enough, which would suggest that he's to STUPID to play QB.

That's just stupid. He's had to learn 3 systems in 4 years. The fact that he didn't start in his rookie year means nothing.

Learning his third offense in four NFL seasons, Campbell quickly settled into the West Coast system run by head coach Jim Zorn.

From my vantage point, and according to you, he hasn't actually learned any system at this point. So perhaps the better wording would be that he's had three playbooks to read in 4 years.

And I don't give a rats behind what some article says. The statement "Campbell quickly settled into the West Coast system run by Head Coach Jim Zorn" must have been written in week four....prior to the next dozen eggs laid, otherwise it's total drivel.

[tcwest10]

Maybe my chronology is off a little, but didn't he have to play under Joe's system, then under Saunders for a dummied down first year and a truncated second year, then under Zorn?
There were few similarities between Gibbs and Saunders other than the basic design; Al was famous for his huge playbook, right? So, now we have Zorn...who couldn't be more diffferent from either.
Add in all the other factors, and you've got one shaky QB situation. I have to believe that he's not the million dollar arm, ten cent head type (i.e. Jeff George), because he's my QB for next year...and to cop out now is essentially my waving the surrender flag for 2009.
Let's see what Zorn can do with him, with a more complete picture of JC's strengths and weaknesses...and let's get him somebody he can see 30 yards away who can get some separation. Like I mentioned earlier, I didn't see 'tana or ARE or anybody else streaking down the field, wide open, where JC had time to make the play. We need everything to come together, and this comes with continuity if the QB is worth a dime.
If he's not, then hey...lemme get another look at that Colt.

[Redskin in Canada]

I have been thinking (dangerous thing) about what a different angle could be added in this thread in which JC may have been exalted, accepted, or dumped as a QB.

The I asked myself the following questions:

The Redskins are the second most expensive franchise in sports.

Is JC a QB worthy of this standing?

Would it be unfair to ask for a top 5 QB in the NFL for this franchise?

Then I ask myself: Is JC better than our direct competition in the NFC East?

Well so far the answer to all those three questions is a resounding NO. Let's not sugar-coat it with excuses. He is not at present.

The BIG question is whether he might make enough progress to continue as our QB or not. And we can argue as much as we blow in the face but NOBODY really knows.

So here it goes:

The key question in my mind REALLY is, Should the benefit of the doubt for JC should last until:

a) Training Camp?

b) Pre-season?

c) As soon as he shows no progress in the first bad regular season game?

d) First four games or its whereabouts based on a balance of those games?

e) The full next 2009 season?

Vote in the Poll thread.

My choice is c. But that choice is predicated in the acquisition of a good QB in the draft. I do not think that anybody feels that Collins could have any future with us. The choice for a replacement would be between Colt and a brand new guy.

You heard it right: a brand new guy. Yep, like Atlanta.

So, those are my

[RayNAustin]

Personally, I think Campbell has already used up all of his "benefit of the doubt", and an open competition for the starting QB position is the only reasonable course of action beginning with training camp. Why should Campbell be treated any differently than any other player on the team? There are competitions for roster spots and starting roles team wide in camp every year. If he's the best we have to work with, fine. But how do you justify just arbitrarily naming him the starter? If he's so darned good, why should open competition be so frightening?

This predetermined starter nonsense has to change regarding everyone on this highly paid, under achieving team, including Jesus Campbell. A 2-6 finish after a 6-2 start is one of the worst collapses I can remember seeing. And as much as I too would like to see more sacks and an upgrade along the defensive line, this pathetic offense (which has continued to be the weak link since 2004) has to be the primary focus on a team with cap and draft pick issues.

There is no room on this team for sacred cows. Personally, I'd work a trade for Campbell right now while he still has some urban myth value. Wait until he under achieves for 8 games next year, and we'll be forced to release him (and wind up with nothing) or resign him at starter pay for an average to mediocre backup. That's just the continuation of the foolishness that has the Redskins in the bind their in now, paying way too much for too little production.

[SkinsFreak]

Maybe my chronology is off a little, but didn't he have to play under Joe's system, then under Saunders for a dummied down first year and a truncated second year, then under Zorn?
There were few similarities between Gibbs and Saunders other than the basic design; Al was famous for his huge playbook, right? So, now we have Zorn...who couldn't be more diffferent from either.
Add in all the other factors, and you've got one shaky QB situation. I have to believe that he's not the million dollar arm, ten cent head type (i.e. Jeff George), because he's my QB for next year...and to cop out now is essentially my waving the surrender flag for 2009.
Let's see what Zorn can do with him, with a more complete picture of JC's strengths and weaknesses...and let's get him somebody he can see 30 yards away who can get some separation. Like I mentioned earlier, I didn't see 'tana or ARE or anybody else streaking down the field, wide open, where JC had time to make the play. We need everything to come together, and this comes with continuity if the QB is worth a dime.
If he's not, then hey...lemme get another look at that Colt.

100% accurate and I agree completely. Thank you.

[PulpExposure]

Personally, I think Campbell has already used up all of his "benefit of the doubt", and an open competition for the starting QB position is the only reasonable course of action beginning with training camp.

Open training camp competition is right where I stand. However, if Campbell wins the competition, I wonder how you're going to react...

There is no room on this team for sacred cows.

Portis? Landry? Moss? Fletcher?

I mean, there are certain guys on this team who will start, no matter what. Too much of a blanket statement there, Ray.

[CanesSkins26]

Open training camp competition is right where I stand. However, if Campbell wins the competition, I wonder how you're going to react...

I can't speak for RayNAustin, but I'm not sure what exactly an open competition would prove. Collins is old and struggled picking up Zorn's system more than JC in training camp last year. I think that most of us would agree that at this point the Skins should be rebuilding to some degree so there would really be no benefit to Collins winning the job. Brennan may have some potential but I think that he is a long term project and highly doubt that he would win the job. Unfortunately, despite JC's rather pathetic play last season, he is most likely the best option on the team right now. I would love to see us draft a qb this year, but with limited picks and numerous holes to fill that isn't a very realistic option.

[Chris Luva Luva]

When's the last time Jason has hit a WR in stride?

In every game of the season.

C'mon dude, you know thats bullcrap. Jason rarely ever hits WR's in stride. Thats why their YAC is non existent. ARE would be unstoppable if he was hit in stride but he's not. Between ARE dropping passes and Jason throwing too high or behind them... C'mon mannn...

[SkinsFreak]

Rarely hits WR's in stride? Wow, we must have the most incredible group of WR's to make all those acrobatic catches that are ALWAYS over their heads or behind them. I'm not sure then why some complain about our WR's.

I'm not saying he's been 100% accurate or has a perfect completion percentage, every QB misses on throws. But to say that Jason, a NFL starting QB, "rarely" hits his WR's in stride is an exaggeration of the truth. Yeah, I definitely DO know what is bullcrap. Did he hit them every time? No. But rarely? Come on...

Edit: By the way, on how many occasions last year did we hear Zorn talking about receivers running the wrong routes or the wrong depths on routes? For example, on one occasion, Zorn spoke specifically about how ARE was supposed to run an 8 yard route but ended up running an 11 yard route. Zorn said JC put the ball right where it was supposed to go but ARE ran too deep on the route and the pass was short. That's the receivers fault, not JC's, and Zorn spoke of this several times.

Or how about when we had a 3rd and 6 and the receiver was supposed to run a 7 yard route but ended up running a 5 yard route and was tackled short of the 1st down? Yeah, that's JC's fault, right?

[PulpExposure]

Open training camp competition is right where I stand. However, if Campbell wins the competition, I wonder how you're going to react...

I can't speak for RayNAustin, but I'm not sure what exactly an open competition would prove. Collins is old and struggled picking up Zorn's system more than JC in training camp last year. I think that most of us would agree that at this point the Skins should be rebuilding to some degree so there would really be no benefit to Collins winning the job. Brennan may have some potential but I think that he is a long term project and highly doubt that he would win the job. Unfortunately, despite JC's rather pathetic play last season, he is most likely the best option on the team right now. I would love to see us draft a qb this year, but with limited picks and numerous holes to fill that isn't a very realistic option.

Yeah that was kind of my point, Canes.

[fleetus]

Moss is still a burner and has been underutilized his ENTIRE tenure here because of shotty QB play.

Here's a couple of articles from the past two years showing Moss as a habitual pass dropper. If we were a high flying passing team like Arizona or New England, maybe a burner like Moss dropping passes would not absolutely kill the offense. but when you predicate your offense on ball control with Portis, you can't have your #1 WR forcing the punt team on the field all game long.

Read these for some perspective:

http://ind.scout.com/2/706647.html

http://profootball.scout.com/2/687001.html

Now, before all you Moss-lovers start flaming, I'll add that, like everything in football, it takes a team to win. Offensive line didn't block well and that is a glaring weakness right now. JC didn't take over any games on his own either. But when a WR drops a pass, there isn't anyone else there we can blame that on. Also, the stat for a "dropped pass" is basically when the ball hits them in the numbers and they drop it. All of those other multitudes of passes that Moss didn't catch are simply recorded as incompletions. Coincidentally, ey, catching passes from the same QB was near the top of the league in % of passes caught. Draw your own conclusions...