Roster Moves

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:22 am

I know it's the offseason and it's supposed to be a dull period for us all but the Redskins are making moves, they just haven't sent a press release yet.

So far we've signed two fullbacks and a punter for competition for camp.

For more info on any moves as they happen (even before a press release is made public), please check out our Hog Blogs and our Transactions/Roster pages on a regular basis.

http://www.the-hogs.net/blogs/2009/01/13 ... ts-expire/

http://www.the-hogs.net/blogs/2009/01/02 ... ter-moves/

Roster

Transactions

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:14 pm

Jake...you must the "inside" man. You da man, dog.......

I really hope that some of these new signings can step up and elevate their game....a la Kurt Warner.

Why can't we find more Diamonds in the rough....?

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:19 am

Amazingly enough other teams are picking people up that they need and we sit by .....evaluating, and spending time at the Senior bowl. We should be looking at all the OL/DL released or cut.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:40 am

VRIEL1 wrote:Amazingly enough other teams are picking people up that they need and we sit by .....evaluating, and spending time at the Senior bowl. We should be looking at all the OL/DL released or cut.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions

Come on, man. The Skins scouting department is huge. Just because Vinny and Scott Campbell are at the Senior Bowl (every team has their top reps there, btw :roll:

) doesn't mean they didn't already evaluate that crop of bottom tier FA's and determine they didn't want any. We've already signed a handful of guys and will undoubtedly sign more. At this time of the year, it's just about having guys on the field for drills and such. You make it sound like the other teams have strategically signed starters.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:42 am

What's the significance of March in the free agency pool? I thought that's when it was okay to start signing guys...

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:08 pm

Man I missed something. I thought the scouting dept was only like 4-5 people strong.

Skinsfreak, you say they picked up a handfull of people? Thats nice but one linemen. Look at the transactions board on here...Jan 2nd we took 2-3 people from practice squad and moved them to active roster prior to the last game. Then Jan 5th we sign one punter and one FB. Then Jan 6th we sign a OL. Man I'm glad the scouts are working around the clock and over time to locate those linemen. I'm now no longer worried.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:51 pm

VRIEL1 wrote:Man I missed something. I thought the scouting dept was only like 4-5 people strong.

Skinsfreak, you say they picked up a handfull of people? Thats nice but one linemen. Look at the transactions board on here...Jan 2nd we took 2-3 people from practice squad and moved them to active roster prior to the last game. Then Jan 5th we sign one punter and one FB. Then Jan 6th we sign a OL. Man I'm glad the scouts are working around the clock and over time to locate those linemen. I'm now no longer worried.

Maybe...they aren't signing players because there is no one worth signing? I mean it's not like these guys that are being signed are pro-bowlers; they're fringe NFL players, practice squad material.

Molehill, I dub thee Mountain!

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:41 pm

The new guys we signed likely signed "reserve/future contracts" towards the tail end of the regular season.

These signings happen EVERY season so it's not like this is our 09 free agent crop that we're showing off.

Californiaskin · Post by **Californiaskin** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:23 pm

yep fringe players getting cut like Stephon Heyer, Kedrick Goldston, HB Blades, Todd Collins, James Thrash, etc

Really nobody worth signing

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:50 pm

Californiaskin wrote:yep fringe players getting cut like Stephon Heyer, Kedrick Goldston, HB Blades, Todd Collins, James Thrash, etc

Really nobody worth signing

Really? I don't see Heyer, Golston, Blades, Collins, etc., getting picked up. I see people like Nemo Broughten.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:43 am

PulpExposure wrote:
Californiaskin wrote:yep fringe players getting cut like Stephon Heyer, Kedrick Goldston, HB Blades, Todd Collins, James Thrash, etc

Really nobody worth signing

Really? I don't see Heyer, Golston, Blades, Collins, etc., getting picked up. I see people like Nemo Broughten.

I think he's saying they were picked up at this time of year when they joined the NFL. I don't know the validity of that, though.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:52 am

JSPB22 wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
Californiaskin wrote:yep fringe players getting cut like Stephon Heyer, Kedrick Goldston, HB Blades, Todd Collins, James Thrash, etc

Really nobody worth signing

Really? I don't see Heyer, Golston, Blades, Collins, etc., getting picked up. I see people like Nemo Broughten.

I think he's saying they were picked up at this time of year when they joined the NFL. I don't know the validity of that, though.

Not sure I follow this, but Blades and Golston were drafted, Heyer was an undrafted FA, meaning he came in after the draft, and Saunders brought Todd with him from KC. So none of those guys came at this time of the year... just saying. And I'm not sure about them getting cut at this time of the year either, and if any were to be cut, I only see Thrash as being the legit candidate.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:35 am

SkinsFreak wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
Californiaskin wrote:yep fringe players getting cut like Stephon Heyer, Kedrick Goldston, HB Blades, Todd Collins, James Thrash, etc

Really nobody worth signing

Really? I don't see Heyer, Golston, Blades, Collins, etc., getting picked up. I see people like Nemo Broughten.

I think he's saying they were picked up at this time of year when they joined the NFL. I don't know the validity of that, though.

Not sure I follow this, but Blades and Golston were drafted, Heyer was an undrafted FA, meaning he came in after the draft, and Saunders brought Todd with him from KC. So none of those guys came at this time of the year... just saying. And I'm not sure about them getting cut at this time of the year either, and if any were to be cut, I only see Thrash as being the legit candidate.

Now that I re-read his post, I see he said "cut." I guess he's saying we should cut those guys, and other teams would be picking them up. But we won't be cutting anyone for a while anyway, so I don't know what he's talking about, really.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:11 pm

Teams don't cut players this time of year. If you are out of it, you do not have roster limits. We will keep everyone until we are required. Guys we are signing are guys we were looking at bringing in years past and didn't get b/c they were either on other teams in the preseason or they are guys who came in to fill a position when a player was injured, etc.

See Vernon Fox.

Californiaskin · Post by **Californiaskin** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:14 pm

ya saying that those forementioned players should be released asap as they are not players who will contribute to anyones championship EVER just like the fringy free agents that are availble now.....

Look its time to stop being nostalgic and let some of these guys just go.......I mean Collins played great for a few games for us but is he really going to ever contribute to a championship here?.....HB Blades cmon......dude is o k but he has to be in the bottom tier of linebackers in the league and would struggle to make anyones roster if he were released.......I dont see the heyer thing either, dudes no diamond in the rough and peppers/ ware (insert first round draft pick de here) will always eat this guy up......thrash has no value and wastes our rookies development time, we need to quit keeping him around cuz hes a good guy.........

The bottom line is our team seems to glom on to these guys who we have hunches about that really could not play for other teams. They stick around until we actually end up considering them starters (heyer yikes) Collins (cmon)

None of these guys are worth a crap, the roster is loaded with others like them (jansen, Kendall, Macintosh, Goldston, Montgomery, yoder, doughty)just to name a few and other teams, Giants Cardinals, Steelers, Ravens rosters are full of studs ready to step in and play when the starters go down.
We would actually be better off if we turned over at least %30 of our roster and brought in new guys to take their place.

We have to stop hanging on to these has beens and never weres and move on if we are ever going to contend IMO

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:46 pm

Californiaskin wrote:We have to stop hanging on to these has beens and never weres and move on if we are ever going to contend IMO

Dude, I think you're missing the point. There's no sense in cutting them now, but that in no way puts any limits on how many can be brought in.

Very few players are released this time of year, by any team. There's no roster limits right now. Teams will need bodies on the field for practice, workouts and drills. That doesn't mean they'll be here come September.

Trust me, Collins is like my least favorite player, but until you have solidified his and others replacements, you don't just cut them loose... not to mention, that you need everyone, even the undesired, for possible trade scenarios.

Bottom line, regardless of the teams thoughts about future personnel, you keep everyone as long as possible. And you never know, the younger guys have a chance to get better. And for the record, I completely disagree with your opinion on Blades. He'll be here next year and should be, so count on it.

And further, we only have so many draft picks, and at this point in time, limited available cap space. So cutting guys like Blades with limited means of replacing them is foolish and bad business practice. And what ever happened to the ides of drafting and developing your own? What you're proposing is one of the very same things the team is constantly criticized for.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:30 am

And what ever happened to the ides of drafting and developing your own?

I don't know, ask Vinny. He's the one that's left us with only four picks in this draft.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:32 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
And what ever happened to the idea of drafting and developing your own?

I don't know, ask Vinny. He's the one that's left us with only four picks in this draft.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I meant developing your own draft picks, like Blades and Golston, instead of just prematurely cutting them with no plan or means of replacing them.

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:52 am

frankcal20 wrote:Teams don't cut players this time of year. If you are out of it, you do not have roster limits. We will keep everyone until we are required. Guys we are signing are guys we were looking at bringing in years past and didn't get b/c they were either on other teams in the preseason or they are guys who came in to fill a position when a player was injured, etc.

See Vernon Fox.

There is an offseason roster limit of 80. By my count we have 68 right now.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:03 am

As much as I hate posting anything by JLC, this actually has some good stuff in it and I agree with much of what's being reported.

Initial Personnel Ratings Completed

With the Redskins completing their first set of personnel meetings before the Senior Bowl, Jason "The Mayor" Reid and I spoke to several people involved in the process - it includes Vinny Cerrato, all of his scouts and assistants and the entire coaching staff - to get a handle on what went on.

These were preliminary meetings to evaluate the current personnel, and no major decisions have been made. But everyone got a feel for the direction in which things seem to be headed and issues on both sides of the line were a constant topic of discussion.

The next wave of meetings will begin next week, and that's when things will start to heat up. Coaches are currently reviewing film and internal scouting reports on possible free agents. The next set of meetings will compare those players to those who are here now as the team prepares to make cuts. With free agency beginning Feb. 27, the team will lay the foundation for offseason moves during meetings with agents at the scouting combine in mid-February.

Several people told us that the offensive line was the greatest area of concern during the first series of meetings. Offensive line Coach Joe Bugel, criticized privately by some in the organization for being too loyal to veterans in the past, was brutally honest during the line review, sources said, particularly about how the line fell apart in the second half of the season.

There was a consensus among those in attendance that the team needs to upgrade at both guard spots and right tackle, though most sources doubted there will any kind of substantial free-agent budget to do that, and figure most of the present cast will be back.

Cerrato was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish, which some coaches at first thought was a joke given personnel issues and the continuing age and injury problems of the line. Rarely could the entire line practice together save for some lighter Friday sessions and the players' technique and chemistry suffered. Veteran football coaches know the importance of having a line on the practice field as a unit. With most of this bunch coming off surgery again, that issue is unlikely to go away if they keep the group together.

Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009, and if he did it would be a surprising development. Similarly, Stephon Heyer is not viewed as a starter; he's okay for depth purposes but with Jon Jansen no longer deemed a starter, either, they need to do something at right tackle (I still expect them to draft a tackle with their first pick).

Kendall could not practice on Wednesdays all season because of his arthritic knees and, in addition, is in his mid-30s. Given the team's cap predicament, its needs and the internal expectation that they will not be big spenders, sources said they expect the team to try to re-sign Kendall on the cheap. Thomas's health and decreasing athleticism are a big issue as well, but, like Jansen, his contract makes it more expensive to cut him than to keep him, so he will be back. Look for the team to find a "value" guard in free agency to replace Jason Fabini and push for a starting job. Beyond that, I'm not sure they do a whole lot here.

As for the rest of the offense, sources involved in these meetings do not expect the Skins to offer QB Jason Campbell any sort of extension (his deal is up after the 2009 season). The team knows it needs to make major leaps in terms of WR production, but after drafting so many pass catchers a year ago, they have made their bed here. Maybe they add a Bobby Engram-type in free agency if the price is right. There remains a strong sense from the coaches that they need to add a "home-run hitter" to the running back mix - someone like a Sproles who is explosive in space and makes safeties miss - but again, with all of the other roster problems, that's considered a luxury. Maybe they can find a young third-down/change-of-pace back late in the draft.

The defensive line is a problem, too. Cornelius Griffin will not be a cap casualty, according to a source, but the team knows it needs a younger anchor to provide more push inside, which defensive coordinator Greg Blache believes would make it easier to get pressure on the perimeter. Finding help at tackle will be a priority, and the defensive coaches would love to find a playmaker at outside linebacker. Sources said it is very unlikely that Marcus Washington will return, with both sides seemingly ready for a change.

As for ends, there was some discussion about Jason Taylor possibly adding some pass rush as more of a linebacker, and there was talk about keeping him. However, his $8.5 million salary is very steep and he will be approached about coming back at a lesser salary, according to a source. That's quite unlikely to go down, though. Several of Taylor's teammates and others who know him well say they do not expect him to accept a reduced rate. In that case he'd rather be a free agent, they say, able to sign where he likes, preferring a system with less rigid responsibilities. He's a better fit in a 3-4 scheme and would rather play in a warmer area, they say. Some believe he would even go back to Miami at a discount, if Bill Parcells would take him, to finish his career there. Regardless, coming back here for half his salary seems unrealistic at this point.

The Skins know they need to add youth and power at end, but, again, are handcuffed by having only four draft picks. Lacking a second-round pick, if they don't take a DE in the first round I'd look for them to try to target one in the third round.

In the secondary, re-signing DeAngelo Hall to long-term deal remains a big priority (it could end up being the only big-time deal they do this offseason). Those negotiations will get a kick-start at the combine. That will be a major domino, with the ability to re-sign Hall affecting whether they keep Shawn Springs and push to deal Carlos Rogers. One source said he expects the Skins to try to keep Springs at a more cap-friendly deal, but if that includes a paycut of any sort I would not expect Springs to accept it.

The meeting also touched on the need for improvement at kicker and punter, but, according to sources, price will be a huge factor. Look for the Skins to bring in young, cheap kickers and punters to compete with Shaun Suisham and Ryan Plackemeier. There won't be any Adam Vinatieri-type deals (though with the annual issues at both these positions and the limitations of this offense, finding someone of that ilk would be in order).

Maybe there will be a change in thinking when the Skins begin discussing outside free agents. Maybe the wallet opens up. But given that the Skins won't have the cap space that most teams will, finding cheap potential starters at a few positions appears to be the way they will proceed. If a Suggs or Haynesworth or Gross ends up here, several coaches and members of the football operations staff would be surprised. Looks like they will try to patch it together again.

Things will become more clear in February.

It appears the organization recognizes the paramount importance of getting younger on both lines. OT, G and DT seem to be priority and it's good to read that the Skins feel this way too.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:43 am

With his history of hip pocket sources, how much of this do you think he will still think in the future? A lot of what is said is (fairly) common knowledge. Sean Springs won't take a pay cut..Kendall might be resigned due to larger needs. I agree some sounds good, but his restating the obvious kinda makes me uninterested in what he has to say.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:05 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:With his history of hip pocket sources, how much of this do you think he will still think in the future? A lot of what is said is (fairly) common knowledge. Sean Springs won't take a pay cut..Kendall might be resigned due to larger needs. I agree some sounds good, but his restating the obvious kinda makes me uninterested in what he has to say.

This is what caught my eye...

Several people told us that the offensive line was the greatest area of concern during the first series of meetings. Offensive line Coach Joe Bugel, criticized privately by some in the organization for being too loyal to veterans in the past, was brutally honest during the line review, sources said, particularly about how the line fell apart in the second half of the season.

There was a consensus among those in attendance that the team needs to upgrade at both guard spots and right tackle, though most sources doubted there will any kind of substantial free-agent budget to do that, and figure most of the present cast will be back.

Cerrato was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish, which some coaches at first thought was a joke given personnel issues and the continuing age and injury problems of the line. Rarely could the entire line practice together save for some lighter Friday sessions and the players' technique and chemistry suffered. Veteran football coaches know the importance of having a line on the practice field as a unit. With most of this bunch coming off surgery again, that issue is unlikely to go away if they keep the group together.

I don't think he's making this up. Fans knew the o-line crummbled in the second half of the season and this offers some insight that the coaches recognize that as fact.

Even though I can't stand the guy, he does have some access and this isn't plastered with opinions. Oh, I also agree with not giving JC a contract extension right now. He'll be playing for a new contract in 2009, with the Skins or another team, and players seem to play better knowing their next contract in on the line.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:26 am

SkinsFreak wrote: ..... I also agree with not giving JC a contract extension right now. He'll be playing for a new contract in 2009, with the Skins or another team, and players seem to play better knowing their next contract in on the line.

OK - hopefully this will settle things here - IF Campbell has a great year we can then prepare for his replacement with less urgency than IF, as I suspect, Campbell does not take this opportunity to show that he is anything more than just a good QB.

Campbell might have it in him but he has not shown it, maybe this 'incentive' will spur him on but I have a feeling we have seen the evidence and he's just not going to be the type of QB you really need to have especially late in the game :wink:

If we are honest with ourselves we are a lot further away from being a really good team again than we thought we would be at this time last year.
This is going to be another frustrating year of hopefully developing this team into a force in the NFC East again.

The good news is that 'reportedly' they understand the needs and 'reportedly' are not going to throw money at players as we used to - we need to get younger and deeper and unfortunately that will not happen very quickly. My 2 cents

.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:49 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:With his history of hip pocket sources, how much of this do you think he will still think in the future? A lot of what is said is (fairly) common knowledge. Sean Springs won't take a pay cut..Kendall might be resigned due to larger needs. I agree some sounds good, but his restating the obvious kinda makes me uninterested in what he has to say.

This is what caught my eye...

Several people told us that the offensive line was the greatest area of concern during the first series of meetings. Offensive line Coach Joe Bugel, criticized privately by some in the organization for being too loyal to veterans in the past, was brutally honest during the line review, sources said, particularly about how the line fell apart in the second half of the season.

There was a consensus among those in attendance that the team needs to upgrade at both guard spots and right tackle, though most sources doubted there will any kind of substantial free-agent budget to do that, and figure most of the present cast will be back.

Cerrato was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish, which some coaches at first thought was a joke given personnel issues and the continuing age and injury problems of the line. Rarely could the entire line practice together save for some lighter Friday sessions and the players' technique and chemistry suffered. Veteran football coaches know the importance of having a line on the practice field as a unit. With most of this bunch coming off surgery again, that issue is unlikely to go away if they keep the group together.

I don't think he's making this up. Fans knew the o-line crummbled in the second half of the season and this offers some insight that the coaches recognize that as fact.

Even though I can't stand the guy, he does have some access and this isn't plastered with opinions. Oh, I also agree with not giving JC a contract extension right now. He'll be playing for a new contract in 2009, with the Skins or another team, and players seem to play better knowing their next contract in on the line.

The bold was more of the point to that portion. Who is their right mind wouldn't be "looking for answers" for the 2-6 finish? There are also a significant enough portion of the fanbase who's NOT sold on JC where this could also be classified as (fairly) common opionion. There's nothing in this blog that I haven't read here multiple times.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:22 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:players seem to play better knowing their next contract in on the line.

While this is very frequently true, it's not the reason we're not signing him to an extension now. No team would ever say, let's "wait" to sign the quarterback of the future so he plays better. It's to answer the question if he's the quarterback of the future and how much of our money/cap we should sink into the guy. I've backed him as our best alternative, he's improved and the issues are not all his fault. But to sign the guy to a long term starting quarterback money now? I just haven't seen enough from him. We need to do everything possible to see if he's the guy or not.

We had a huge debate on the site all year that this was put up time for him. He partially delivered. I give him a B-/C+. He was adequate, sometimes a little more, not consistently enough. So we give him this year to decide if: he's the guy (we sign/franchise him), he's OK (we make an OK offer and expose other teams to like him more) or we finally cut bait and look elsewhere. It makes no sense to do that after being OK this year and improving some while having no other viable options. You don't just go sign franchise QBs and we have nothing past him right now.