My thoughts on the Redskins

[Deadskins]

u think cooley will do anything next year or the year after?? if there not going to throw him the ball then y should he be on the team.

Well, let's see... He's had two straight pro-bowl seasons now, but maybe you're right, he may suddenly forget how to play and will suck in the future. And yeah, if they're not going to throw him the ball... Oh wait, he had 83 catches this season, the most of anyone on the team this year (and 6th best in franchise history), and the best for a Redskins' TE ever.

[kingfish51]

i think the redskins were one of the first teams to try and feature the two-back (power and speed) approach

Uh...no. That statement reveals that you're not a football historian in the least.

The two-back approach goes back at least a little (50 years?) before Trung Canidate's time.

Hell, more recently, we had the Steelers (Harris and Blier) and or Dolphins (Czonka, Morris) in the 70's, and the Browns in the 80's (Mack and Byner). Hell...even our own Redskins in the 80's had Riggins and Washington.

Trung Canidate indeed.

The original poster is on to something. His ideas should not be totally ignored.

Why not trade the guys on the team that have some value?

There's this magical thing called a salary cap, where when you trade a player under contract, their cap numbers accelerate and count against the cap for that year.

You forgot Larry Brown and Charlie Harraway from the George Allen years. That was one hell of a 1-2 punch back then.

[CanesSkins26]

u think cooley will do anything next year or the year after?? if there not going to throw him the ball then y should he be on the team.

Well, let's see... He's had two straight pro-bowl seasons now, but maybe you're right, he may suddenly forget how to play and will suck in the future. And yeah, if they're not going to throw him the ball... Oh wait, he had 83 catches this season, the most of anyone on the team this year (and 6th best in franchise history), and the best for a Redskins' TE ever.

He had a lot of catches but Zorn did an awful job of getting him the ball in the red zone. 1 td, which was thrown by ARE, is ridiculous for a guy with ey's talent. Even as a rookie ey had 6 tds. Despite the number of catches ey only averaged 4 yards more per game than last season and averaged 10.2 ypc, the second lowest number of his career. His longest reception on the year was 28 yards (a career worst) and he actually made 3 less first downs than last year despite having 17 more receptions. Bottom line is Zorn needs to better design plays to get ey open in space and down the field, and find a better way to use him in the red zone. The guy is our most consistent receiving threat and we can't find a way to get him more than one td.

[El Mexican]

i think the redskins were one of the first teams to try and feature the two-back (power and speed) approach

Uh...no. That statement reveals that you're not a football historian in the least.

The two-back approach goes back at least a little (50 years?) before Trung Canidate's time.

Hell, more recently, we had the Steelers (Harris and Blier) and or Dolphins (Czonka, Morris) in the 70's, and the Browns in the 80's (Mack and Byner). Hell...even our own Redskins in the 80's had Riggins and Washington.

Trung Canidate indeed.

The original poster is on to something. His ideas should not be totally ignored.

Why not trade the guys on the team that have some value?

There's this magical thing called a salary cap, where when you trade a player under contract, their cap numbers accelerate and count against the cap for that year.

You forgot Larry Brown and Charlie Harraway from the George Allen years. That was one hell of a 1-2 punch back then.

How about Byner and Riggs?

[KazooSkinsFan]

i love how every1 is attacking me... calm down its a message board. u think cooley will do anything next year or the year after?? if there not going to throw him the ball then y should he be on the team... chris samuels is old and wut makes you think he is gonna be good in the coming years?

I see lots of people saying how stupid your ideas are. Rightly so in my view. Regardless, I didn't see ANYONE attack YOU. Are your stupid proposals so sacred that to criticize them for the shallow, poorly thought out stupid ideas that they are is to be in itself hysterical and in need of calming down?

[tcwest10]

Redskins4Life21...welcome to the boards. I can't get my mind wrapped around the massive overhaul you want. ey has yet to hit his prime, and trading him would be a terrible mistake. Davis is the unknown quantity. You can't give up on him yet. He's had very little playing time, and his trade value is not yet established. I can see letting ARE go. I hate that runs bacwards all the time. Moss? No. Starting Kelly and Thomas as the top two is at least two years away. You can't just start from scratch with a whole new WR corps. You have to have someone in there who's been there for a while. While I agree that C-Sam, Randy Thomas and Kendall have this annual "breaking down" as the year progresses, the O-Line is another area where you can't just start stripping away everyone and hope that they gel in enough time to give the QB time to throw...even in a quick release West Coast offense. (Don't forget CP's yardage at midseason) We have the best O-line coach in the world in Buges. I agree we need to get a little younger there, and on the D-line, but you do that by adding depth, not releasing all your starters, IMHO. What I mean by that is, you have the guys on the bench. A starter gets hurt, goes down, whatever...the second stringer comes up, and ideally, wins the job. In a roundabout way, the Jansen/Heyer/Jansen deal is kind of what happens there. One was a straight up pass-protecter, the other was a run blocker who could also do some pass protection, just not as well. The guy who could do both won the job, despite not having been named the starter.
We do have a glaring need for a pass rush. Blache will determine what he needs, and go after it. Trust me. This was his first year as The Man.
I'd like to have a run of luck like the Giants have had in that area.
I agree it's time for Springs to move on, despite the fact that I love him as a player and locker room guy. I also know that means he's going straight to TTiT, to be near his father. If we move him to Safety, I can live with that. Otherwise, we're like-minded, there.
As far as having an open competition at QB, I can't agree. That would mess with JC's mind. Aside from Collins, who I don't believe can suceed in this system, I think we're going to be okay. For a while, I wondered if JC was the second coming of Jeff George (Million dollar arm, ten cent head), but his progress this year changed my mind there. Nobody knows better than Zorn about how to bring a QB up. If he thinks that Brennan is better than Campbell, he will do the right thing. At this time, he clearly believes that Jason can do the job. We did have a tremendous start to the season, and we did make the playoffs the year before. What we need is some consistency, some familiarity with what Coach wants to do in different situations. When it was basic and stripped down, everything went well. When we started getting cute, and teams got tape on us, we failed. It's a process. Everybody on the team was starting something brand new, including the coaching staff.
I think you give Zorn a few years with what he has, letting him insert and delete parts here and there as he and the staff see fit before you start saying, "Here I am, trying to rebuild my engine with a carpenter's tool box."
I hate to say this to you, but Snyder had a vision similar to yours in 2000.
It doesn't always work, my friend. It failed spectacularly, in that case.
Again, welcome to the site. We're a well moderated group. When we attack, it's the post, not the poster. It may take you some time to be able to differentiate.
Don't mind Kazoo. We love him because he's a whacko. You should be nice to him. He's married to Ann Coulter, you know. This is the only place where he can go and get some release.

[Deadskins]

Don't mind Kazoo. We love him because he's a whacko. You should be nice to him. He's married to Ann Coulter, you know. This is the only place where he can go and get some release.

[chiefhog44]

Trade cooley? not a good move yet
Open competition at QB? not a good move yet
Trade/cut Moss? Not a good move yet
Trade/cut Samuels? Not a good move yet
Start the Rookies at WR? One of them, absolutley
Get a two back system in place? I agree
Trade/cut ARE? Absolutely
Trade/cut Springs? Absolutely
Cut Suisam? Yes please

I'll add a couple to this list...

TRADE Portis. I love him to death, but he's hit his peak, and he still has great value. Could he be undermining Coach Z behind closed doors? You can pick up RB's all the time in the draft. Trade him for a RT and draft a RB at the 13th spot.

Pick up a DT in free agency.

Pick up a kicker in Free agency

[redskins4life21]

Trade cooley? not a good move yet
Open competition at QB? not a good move yet
Trade/cut Moss? Not a good move yet
Trade/cut Samuels? Not a good move yet
Start the Rookies at WR? One of them, absolutley
Get a two back system in place? I agree
Trade/cut ARE? Absolutely
Trade/cut Springs? Absolutely
Cut Suisam? Yes please

I'll add a couple to this list...

TRADE Portis. I love him to death, but he's hit his peak, and he still has great value. Could he be undermining Coach Z behind closed doors? You can pick up RB's all the time in the draft. Trade him for a RT and draft a RB at the 13th spot.

Pick up a DT in free agency.

Pick up a kicker in Free agency

i dont think u can trade portis... he is the ONLY brightspot to their offense and without him they are truly NOTHING. i think the redskins could be very good if they just got another RB... betts is not cutting it... the reason i say for trading cooley is because his value is very high and i only see him getting worse. if thomas, kelly, and fred davis dont see significant more time next year i think it will really hurt their potential. i know WR's usually take 3 yrs. but they got their chance like desean jackson and dustin keller (first TE taken in the draft) they could truly shine. also what about rinehart? do u think he will see time next year?

[aswas71788]

I know, let's trade the entire Redskins team for the entire Detroit Lions team. Detroit fans will love an 8 - 8 team and Redskin fans will learn to appreciate and 8 - 8 team.

[ChocolateMilk]

:lol: I know, let's trade the entire Redskins team for the entire Detroit Lions team. Detroit fans will love an 8 - 8 team and Redskin fans will learn to appreciate and 8 - 8 team.

THANK YOU!!! i mean geez you joke but i feel as though people are acting as if the sky is falling for our team. Give us another offseason full of new rookies and a few low budget FAs to help out and we'll be fine.

[VetSkinsFan]

I don't have a problem with the open QB camp but to say lets bench JC because he does not seem to be a starting QB yet mention letting Colt have a go at it. yeah. I'm sorry I missed the boat where Colt played in the NFL and has shown he is ready to be our #1 QB. I like Colt don't get me wrong but I would say he's farther along then JC at this point.

Every player in the NFL is in this situation at one time or another... not really a valid point..

[VetSkinsFan]

u think cooley will do anything next year or the year after?? if there not going to throw him the ball then y should he be on the team.

Well, let's see... He's had two straight pro-bowl seasons now, but maybe you're right, he may suddenly forget how to play and will suck in the future. And yeah, if they're not going to throw him the ball... Oh wait, he had 83 catches this season, the most of anyone on the team this year (and 6th best in franchise history), and the best for a Redskins' TE ever.

He had a lot of catches but Zorn did an awful job of getting him the ball in the red zone. 1 td, which was thrown by ARE, is ridiculous for a guy with ey's talent. Even as a rookie ey had 6 tds. Despite the number of catches ey only averaged 4 yards more per game than last season and averaged 10.2 ypc, the second lowest number of his career. His longest reception on the year was 28 yards (a career worst) and he actually made 3 less first downs than last year despite having 17 more receptions. Bottom line is Zorn needs to better design plays to get ey open in space and down the field, and find a better way to use him in the red zone. The guy is our most consistent receiving threat and we can't find a way to get him more than one td.

...but that's not Cpt Chaos not producing. That's a victim of the playcalling. He did quite well with what he was given. You could have labeled Randy Moss in Oakland as a bust, too, but look what he did when he left. Do you really want to lose the potential of greatness for a mediocre offensive scheme? And ey CAN be great.

[VetSkinsFan]

As far as having an open competition at QB, I can't agree. That would mess with JC's mind. Aside from Collins, who I don't believe can suceed in this system, I think we're going to be okay. For a while, I wondered if JC was the second coming of Jeff George (Million dollar arm, ten cent head), but his progress this year changed my mind there.

I believe everyone should have a competition for their starting position. It inspires the players ot strive for the best. It helps inhibit players getting lazy b/c "they don't have to worry about their starter status."

No one here can positively prove that JC's a bust (or golden) or Colt is is a bust or golden. It's all speculation and "I have a feeling about <insert subject>." What would an open competition at QB do? It would give Colt a chance to show that he's (not)ready and/or show that JC is (not)the bust that some people think he is. PLUS, it keeps the young guys who don't make the starting cut hungry.

There are rare cases like P Manning, J Montana, ect, ect, that will be exceptions to this rule, but what can it hurt? Has JC REALLY SHOWN THAT MUCH?

[Chris Luva Luva]

Trading ey?
Hurting Jason's itty bitty feelings?

Jeez, it must be the offseason. Vet, you have more patience than I do to deal with retarded scenarios.

[El Mexican]

Trading ey?
Hurting Jason's itty bitty feelings?

Jeez, it must be the offseason. Vet, you have more patience than I do to deal with retarded scenarios.

They aren't THAT retarded, CLL. We've all seen stranger things happen in the last ten years under Snyder.

It happened not long ago when the team traded Champ Bailey to Denver for CP. Champ wanted to be traded, that's true, but at the time all salary cap ramifications were resolved.

All I'm saying is that this team needs to fill a lot of different positions and a blockbuster trade could help in this rebuilding process.

It's well known that the current roster was constructed to win under Gibbs. That did not happen and now the organization is dealing with a veteran-loaded squad.

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

[CanesSkins26]

u think cooley will do anything next year or the year after?? if there not going to throw him the ball then y should he be on the team.

Well, let's see... He's had two straight pro-bowl seasons now, but maybe you're right, he may suddenly forget how to play and will suck in the future. And yeah, if they're not going to throw him the ball... Oh wait, he had 83 catches this season, the most of anyone on the team this year (and 6th best in franchise history), and the best for a Redskins' TE ever.

He had a lot of catches but Zorn did an awful job of getting him the ball in the red zone. 1 td, which was thrown by ARE, is ridiculous for a guy with ey's talent. Even as a rookie ey had 6 tds. Despite the number of catches ey only averaged 4 yards more per game than last season and averaged 10.2 ypc, the second lowest number of his career. His longest reception on the year was 28 yards (a career worst) and he actually made 3 less first downs than last year despite having 17 more receptions. Bottom line is Zorn needs to better design plays to get ey open in space and down the field, and find a better way to use him in the red zone. The guy is our most consistent receiving threat and we can't find a way to get him more than one td.

...but that's not Cpt Chaos not producing. That's a victim of the playcalling. He did quite well with what he was given. You could have labeled Randy Moss in Oakland as a bust, too, but look what he did when he left. Do you really want to lose the potential of greatness for a mediocre offensive scheme? And ey CAN be great.

In no way was that post meant to be a shot at ey. In NO WAY do I want to trade him. I was simply trying to point out that the high number of catches do not necessarily mean that we did a good job of getting him the ball this year. I was attempting to show that Zorn needs to do a better job of getting ey open down the field and in using him in the red zone.

[RedskinsFreak]

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

Not in this reality.

Maybe there's a parallel universe (like the old show 'Sliders') that has a patient, humble, open-to-and-accepting-of-the-truth Dan Snyder as owner that lets competent football people make football decisions.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

This is why they will never succeed.

[El Mexican]

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

This is why they will never succeed.

For my sanity's sake I hope you're wrong, man.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

This is why they will never succeed.

For my sanity's sake I hope you're wrong, man.

Me too. I'd be happy to be wrong.

[PulpExposure]

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

This is why they will never succeed.

For my sanity's sake I hope you're wrong, man.

Me too. I'd be happy to be wrong.

I don't think you're wrong (as you saw in my post in the other forum). I'm also not sure we, as the fans, would be okay with sitting through 4-5 1 to 6 game winning seasons.

[VetSkinsFan]

u think cooley will do anything next year or the year after?? if there not going to throw him the ball then y should he be on the team.

Well, let's see... He's had two straight pro-bowl seasons now, but maybe you're right, he may suddenly forget how to play and will suck in the future. And yeah, if they're not going to throw him the ball... Oh wait, he had 83 catches this season, the most of anyone on the team this year (and 6th best in franchise history), and the best for a Redskins' TE ever.

He had a lot of catches but Zorn did an awful job of getting him the ball in the red zone. 1 td, which was thrown by ARE, is ridiculous for a guy with ey's talent. Even as a rookie ey had 6 tds. Despite the number of catches ey only averaged 4 yards more per game than last season and averaged 10.2 ypc, the second lowest number of his career. His longest reception on the year was 28 yards (a career worst) and he actually made 3 less first downs than last year despite having 17 more receptions. Bottom line is Zorn needs to better design plays to get ey open in space and down the field, and find a better way to use him in the red zone. The guy is our most consistent receiving threat and we can't find a way to get him more than one td.

...but that's not Cpt Chaos not producing. That's a victim of the playcalling. He did quite well with what he was given. You could have labeled Randy Moss in Oakland as a bust, too, but look what he did when he left. Do you really want to lose the potential of greatness for a mediocre offensive scheme? And ey CAN be great.

In no way was that post meant to be a shot at ey. In NO WAY do I want to trade him. I was simply trying to point out that the high number of catches do not necessarily mean that we did a good job of getting him the ball this year. I was attempting to show that Zorn needs to do a better job of getting ey open down the field and in using him in the red zone.

I wasn't disagreeing (wasn't TRYING to, anyway), but this was the best thread within the thread to illustrate the lack of thought and long term vision that the immediate gratification 'geniuses' have.

I completely agree that he wasn't utilized most efficiently. I was going further on your point that Cpt Chaos kicked ass with what he was given. Yes, he dropped passes, so did EVERY OTHER receiver in the game. He and CP (before JZ ran CP in to the ground) were really the only bright spots in our offense. To get rid of the only reliable production on our team is and that's being extremely polite. I've seen more foresight out of my 8 yo than some of these "plans" posted here.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Don't mind Kazoo. We love him because he's a whacko. You should be nice to him. He's married to Ann Coulter, you know. This is the only place where he can go and get some release.

Liberal ignorance. You guys obviously aren't married to Republican women because the nonsense of them being unwilling to experiment or less then available then liberal women's exactly what you need to believe when you're traveling down that well traveled highway being called the wrong name and dumped as soon as you hit your credit card limit.

Oh, on the whacko part, no comment.

[SkinsFreak]

Does anyone really think that Snyder and Vinny will have the patience to rebuild through five draft classes?

This is why they will never succeed.

For my sanity's sake I hope you're wrong, man.

Me too. I'd be happy to be wrong.

I don't think you're wrong (as you saw in my post in the other forum). I'm also not sure we, as the fans, would be okay with sitting through 4-5 1 to 6 game winning seasons.

...and in all fairness, 9 out of our 10 draft picks did make the team last year. There are signs that the FO is trying to change their ways, for the better. You can upgrade your team through the draft AND free agency, so there should always be a balance of both, as has been previously discussed.

It's funny though, as we see our FO back off a bit from the free agent signings that include monster contracts and huge bonuses, other teams have now fallen into that very mold.

The fact is, free agent signings are now very prevalent in this league and are a viable and strategic way to upgrade your team. But as soon as Snyder even thinks about signing a free agent, all of a sudden the local media and the fans get their panties in a bunch and cry that Snyder is just trying to make a splash in the headlines and trying to buy a championship, when in fact, every team is doing it.

Just look at Jerry Jones. His official title is "GM/President/Team Owner". He signs just about every free agent he can get his hands on, many of which with criminal or morally questionable backgrounds. And how many playoff wins do they have in the past 12 years? Yet it doesn't seem that he faces half the criticism that Snyder gets. Not saying Danny doesn't deserve some, but for petes sake, other teams are now far more involved at handing out huge contracts to free agents then he is.

Point being, perhaps there is some evidence that Syderatto are getting better.