The problem with the Redskins

kingfish51 · Post by **kingfish51** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:49 pm

I found this to be very interesting and I agree wholeheartedly. Your thoughts?
http://dcprosportsreport.com/?p=2319

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:29 pm

Some excerpts:

The main problem with the Washington Redskins is majority owner Dan Snyder — The Li’l General. I will explain why.

The Redskins finished 8-8 this year, out of the playoffs once again. Opinions are divided about whom to blame. Some blame rookie head coach Jim Zorn, who matched Marty Schottenheimer and Joe Gibbs by winning half of his games in his first season coaching the team. Some blame an offensive line that is old, slow, creaky and injury-prone. Some blame a corps of wideouts that consists of one genuine playmaker — Santana Moss — and a collection of rookie busts and veterans asked to do more than they can. Some blame the quarterback Jason Campbell, who has learned to prevent the big mistakes, but hasn’t learned to make the big plays. Finally, a popular target is “General Manager” Vinny Cerrato, a man with enough free time to host a truly awful talk radio show twice a week and whose services in the job he allegedly occupies are not sought by any other NFL team.

All that misses the point. The problem with the Washington Redskins is Dan Snyder.

Snyder took over the team after the 1998 season, but so late into 1999 did he take the reins that he couldn’t have any impact on the personnel of the team that year. Those Redskins finally made it to the playoffs under Head Coach Norv Turner, winning 10 games and the NFC East division title. The Redskins crushed the Detroit Lions in a home playoff game and then lost narrowly and comically to a fine Tampa Bay Buccaneers team. It seemed the Redskins might have finally turned the corner after drifting between atroicious and mediocre since the retirement of Joe Gibbs after the 1992 season.

Then Dan Snyder began to make decisions.

Snyder paid a mint for an old and over-the-hill Bruce Smith, a once-great pass-rusher the Buffalo Bills didn’t want anymore. Smith had one good season for the Redskins and then lapsed into a lame and purpose-less [for the Redskins, anyway] pursuit of the NFL career sack title. Deion Sanders was also brought in despite repeated warnings from the Dallas metro area that recent injuries meant he only had 9 working toes and wasn’t the player Snyder thought he was getting. Sanders was a slightly-better-than-average cornerback, no improvement on the man shoved into a reserve role, Darrell Green. As a punt returner, Sanders made WR James Thrash look good; Thrash averaged over 3 yards more per punt return than Sanders did. To make room for Sanders on the roster, the Redskins cut RB/RS Brian Mitchell, perhaps the most talented and useful player on the team.

And let us not forget QB Jeff George, who lobbied endlessly for the starter job over incumbent [and future Super Bowl champion] Brad Johnson. George, who famously said leadership is “overrated,” failed utterly in Washington, finishing the 2000 season ineffectually as the starter and then being cut after two weeks by new Head Coach Marty Schottenheimer in 2001.

Dan Snyder didn’t buy the Redskins to make money, though he does intend to make money with the Redskins and does, indeed, do so. Dan Snyder didn’t buy the Redskins to win Super Bowls, though he does hope to do that, too. Dan Snyder bought the Redskins to be general manager because being general manager of an NFL team is fun — particularly if you’ve got a lot of money to spend and have no boss to fire you.

I’m going to repeat that because it is important for understanding Snyder and why the Redskins have endured so much losing: Dan Snyder bought the Redskins to be general manager because being general manager of an NFL team is fun — particularly if you’ve got a lot of money to spend and have no boss to fire you.

Sounds like a lot of the same to me. . .but hey, maybe everybody in DC sees it except the one man who needs to.

RedskinsFreak · Post by **RedskinsFreak** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:10 am

He won't see it because he treasures the credit for the success more than the success (if it were to ever happen) itself.

He wants to be seen as the architect, the driving force behind a return to glory.

But one of the perks of ownership is that you will get the credit REGARDLESS of how much direct effort you put into the project.

Put the right guy in place, and you'll get that credit, even if you spend every waking minute on some private beach.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:36 am

I love this part.....

I’m going to repeat that because it is important for understanding Snyder and why the Redskins have endured so much losing: Dan Snyder bought the Redskins to be general manager because being general manager of an NFL team is fun — particularly if you’ve got a lot of money to spend and have no boss to fire you.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:27 am

Breaking news alert! :lol:

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:10 pm

Decent article, but it drives me crazy when people throw in useless hyperbole to prove a point they want to make...when it just isn't true.

Notably:

Redskins cut RB/RS Brian Mitchell, perhaps the most talented and useful player on the team

Really? In 1999, Mitchell averaged 8.3 yards per punt return and 20.8 yards per kickoff return. In 2000, the guy replacing him (James Thrash) averaged 10.6 a punt and 22.2 a kickoff. He was eminently replaceable from a production standpoint.

The year after they cut Mitchell (1999), Stephan Davis had 1300 yards rushing and 11 TDs, Champ Bailey had 5 picks and a probowl at 22 years old, and we had 4 probowlers in total (Bailey, Davis, Coleman (with 12 sacks), and Stephen Alexander). All four of those guys would undoubtably be seen as more talented and useful than Mitchell. Not to mention a rookie Arrington and Samuels, both with loads of talent.

I mean, his argument is strong enough without throwing crap like that in. All it does is detract from his article (though only maybe for hyper-critical readers like me).

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:12 pm

No, I think that's a good point, PulpExposure. Piling on to the detriment of the argument is precisely the kind of thing that, over time, made me give up on the idea that Jason la Canfora would ever make a decent analyst.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:15 pm

They prey on the people (like me) who weren't around or paying attn atm and it sounds plausible. That's why I like this site, it puts the fallacies to rest.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:32 pm

PulpExposure wrote:Decent article, but it drives me crazy when people throw in useless hyperbole to prove a point they want to make...when it just isn't true.

Notably:

Redskins cut RB/RS Brian Mitchell, perhaps the most talented and useful player on the team

Brian was one of the greatest remaining Redskins of the glory days. He made plays and played hard.

No, he was not "the most useful player" whatever that means. He was a very good player. PERIOD.

He still played solidly with our rival in Philthy where he earned their respect for his game and admiration for his dedication.

But Neon was going to give us a Superbowl .. or more revenue ,whatever ...

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:34 pm

Oh hey, an article bashing Dan Snyder, that's new! :roll:

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:35 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:No, I think that's a good point, PulpExposure. Piling on to the detriment of the argument is precisely the kind of thing that, over time, made me give up on the idea that Jason la Canfora would ever make a decent analyst.

Iwould take JLC as a sports analyst ANY time over Dan Snyder as an owner. JLC is harmless to the team. Dan Snyder is the root of the problem. And that NOBODY can do anything about, except stop putting money in his pockets.

Interesting thing is, more people laugh and mock Dan Snyder than fans criticise JLC (and the latter is not an example of professionalism either).

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:37 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:Oh hey, an article bashing Dan Snyder, that's new!

Get used to it. The more mediocrity, the harsher the criticism against the owner of the second most expensive sports franchise in the USA. :wink:

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:50 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:Oh hey, an article bashing Dan Snyder, that's new!

Get used to it. The more mediocrity, the harsher the criticism against the owner of the second most expensive sports franchise in the USA.

Oh I ignore it for the most part. I just can't believe people still listen to it. How about we turn the tables on LaCanfora?

How about we talk about all those times he crapped in his pants before he was potty-trained? Maybe we can track down the first girl he ever took on a date so we can talk about what an idiot he is! Let's dredge up every failure he's ever had in the past and use that to describe him as a man today!

The fact that he assumes that people can't learn from their mistakes. The fact that he assumes that people are defined only by their failures makes him fair game wouldn't you agree?

Or do we only reserve that kind of treatment for convicted felons and whomever currently owns the Redskins?

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:00 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:The fact that he assumes that people can't learn from their mistakes. The fact that he assumes that people are defined only by their failures makes him fair game wouldn't you agree?

Fair enough. I am ready to discuss, not the personal lives, but what it is RELEVANT to the discussion: the record of the Washington Redskins during the Snyder era.

No, I am not buying for a second the PROMISE that Snyder MAY eventually learn to be an owner, GM and player personnel man. It is what it IS. The FACTS are the FACTS.

So, here you are: Not EVEN my MOST ADMIRED COACH ever could overcome the handicap of having Snyder as an owner. Surely, Joe did a hell of a lot of good. The organization was in downright disarray and chaos when he arrived. He brought professionalism and competitiveness back to the Stadium. But EVEN he could not win consistently because the burden was too great.

I could flag on your face the record of the Skins over the last decade. But I will not.

At this point, I am not trying to persuadea anybody. Unfortunately, time and our record have and will take care of that. Feel as you might. You have a right to post as much as I do.

Go ahead, take a bit more of the snake oil distributed freely in Redskin Park every offseason. The new load is on its way. :wink:

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:50 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:Oh hey, an article bashing Dan Snyder, that's new!

Get used to it. The more mediocrity, the harsher the criticism against the owner of the second most expensive sports franchise in the USA.

Oh I ignore it for the most part. I just can't believe people still listen to it. How about we turn the tables on LaCanfora?

My favorite is how when the Skins traded for Jason Taylor, he was excited and said it was the right move.

Anyway, to me, this is a move the Skins had to make. You're talking about picking up dudes who can, most likely, barely play in the NFL, if at all, versus getting a future Hall of Famer and the premier sack guy in the league over the last 10 years. (Okay, maybe it's Strahan, but he's retired now.)

And Vinny Cerrato was ever-so-confident Taylor is more than a one-year rental, so that's huge, too. It was going to take a second-round pick to get him under these circumstances - the league knew the Skins were desperate as heck now, losing two DEs for the season right off the bat, including a starter.

And when they traded for Erasmus James

The Redskins have traded a conditional seventh-round pick in the 2009 draft to Minnesota for defensive end Erasmus James. James has fallen out of favor with the Vikings but Washington has had a glaring need on the defensive line.

Redskins new defensive line coach John Palermo knows James well - he coached him at Wisconsin - and the Redskins are in essence giving up nothing for a player who has had some issues but certainly has potential. The deal is contingent upon James making Washington's 53-man roster. Could be a very favorable move if it works out and kudos to them for finally addressing the lack of depth in the trenches.

But yet, playing hindsight man...

Gambling on broken down (Erasmus James) or old (Jason Taylor) ends, as the Redskins have done, makes no sense any more. The problem is too acute for mere Band-Aids.

Right...according to JLC, good moves then, but since they didn't work out as the Redskins (AND JLC) thought they would, they're now bad moves. Right. Consistency...

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:05 pm

Ha! I've been too lazy to do that kind of homework, PulpExposure. . .but that is classic JLC.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:15 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:Oh hey, an article bashing Dan Snyder, that's new!

Get used to it. The more mediocrity, the harsher the criticism against the owner of the second most expensive sports franchise in the USA.

Oh I ignore it for the most part. I just can't believe people still listen to it. How about we turn the tables on LaCanfora?

My favorite is how when the Skins traded for Jason Taylor, he was excited and said it was the right move.

Anyway, to me, this is a move the Skins had to make. You're talking about picking up dudes who can, most likely, barely play in the NFL, if at all, versus getting a future Hall of Famer and the premier sack guy in the league over the last 10 years. (Okay, maybe it's Strahan, but he's retired now.)

And Vinny Cerrato was ever-so-confident Taylor is more than a one-year rental, so that's huge, too. It was going to take a second-round pick to get him under these circumstances - the league knew the Skins were desperate as heck now, losing two DEs for the season right off the bat, including a starter.

And when they traded for Erasmus James

The Redskins have traded a conditional seventh-round pick in the 2009 draft to Minnesota for defensive end Erasmus James. James has fallen out of favor with the Vikings but Washington has had a glaring need on the defensive line.

Redskins new defensive line coach John Palermo knows James well - he coached him at Wisconsin - and the Redskins are in essence giving up nothing for a player who has had some issues but certainly has potential. The deal is contingent upon James making Washington's 53-man roster. Could be a very favorable move if it works out and kudos to them for finally addressing the lack of depth in the trenches.

But yet, playing hindsight man...

Gambling on broken down (Erasmus James) or old (Jason Taylor) ends, as the Redskins have done, makes no sense any more. The problem is too acute for mere Band-Aids.

Right...according to JLC, good moves then, but since they didn't work out as the Redskins (AND JLC) thought they would, they're now bad moves. Right. Consistency...

His incompetence, poor writing and weaselly nature aside, this is what really bothers me about him. He sucks at analysis, he strikes me as the kind of person who you'd hear discussing sports and think "wow, this moron knows nothing about football" yet he gets paid to do that very thing. Granted, a lack of actual knowledge has not hindered the ESPN Network (I'm looking at you Chris Berman) but it still irks me.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:18 pm

There's something that's fundamentally unjust about it. . .like an imbalance in the universe. It's understandable to be upset.

So Cal Skin Dude · Post by **So Cal Skin Dude** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:00 pm

Who cares about JLC, or anybody else that writes or covers the Skins. They are not relevant to the eventual outcome of the team's record. If it were not for Snyder's grandiose spending we would be the Bengals, Raiders and Lions.

We are slightly above those teams in respect and I say record too. We are the least respected of the 4 teams in our division.

I say the article is spot on. Hammer away at Danny Boy, even if in a redundant fashion.

Hail!

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:22 pm

If you look at the organization as a whole, he is responsible but the fact that there is not a solid front office, that is part of the problem too.

If he get's a gm and hc, with a five-year plan, then we'd be fine...

Trample the Elderly · Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:19 pm

roybus14 wrote:If you look at the organization as a whole, he is responsible but the fact that there is not a solid front office, that is part of the problem too.

If he get's a gm and hc, with a five-year plan, then we'd be fine...

From what I've read he's already tried that. No one wants to touch this team with a ten foot pole and it's his own fault.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:18 am

This thread has succeeded at shooting the messenger (JLC) but not his message.

It is true that somebody without moral authority is NOT the most qualified person to object against the competence of anybody else.

But conversely, the fact that a person lacking moral authority makes an analysis does not restore the competence or qualifications of the person who was questioned in the first place.

To all of you, I say: Get used to it and get used to it good.

The longer the period of mediocrity and failure, the more often friends and foes will rejoice in kicking and spitting on Dan Snyder. He has collected a LONG list of enemies in and outside the NFL and the media. Redskins fans, who would naturally tend to defend -anything- associated with their team are increasingly defining a difference between the team and the ownership/front office. They still love their team but increasingly lose hope for their well being and success.

How many respected posters in this site that you know and care about have given up hope on this Ownership and Front Office?

Welch, DEHog, and many others who have been fans for DECADES. Are these fair-weather or thoughtless fans? Comparisons between the failures of Preston Marshall and Dan Snyder anybody?

I say with GREAT SADNESS that the MOST tragic action by this man, Dan Snyder, is his constant effort to alienate the REAL hardcore fans of the Washington Redskins by the combined result of all of his actions.

But bring it on. If -ANYBODY- wishes to tell me that I am wrong or that my posts are full of you know what, go ahead, make my day. I am not going anywhere.

This topic gets tired and it has a depressing nature but it has the privilege of being TRUE: the main problem lies with the fundamentally flawed leadership and terrible management style of this crappy owner.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:39 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:It is true that somebody without moral authority is NOT the most qualified person to object against the competence of anybody else.

*waves finger...

This is simply a defense mechanism for delusional fans to ignore the facts. Sure, JLC is a dbag ok fine but that doens't make what he's saying not true. But delusional fans don't want to hear that.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:45 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:It is true that somebody without moral authority is NOT the most qualified person to object against the competence of anybody else.

*waves finger...

This is simply a defense mechanism for delusional fans to ignore the facts. Sure, JLC is a dbag ok fine but that doens't make what he's saying not true. But delusional fans don't want to hear that.

OR

There actually ARE people who can disassociate the message from the writing.

There is a difference. I dislike and discount JLC's writing simply because the guy has an agenda, and is willing to write whatever he wants to fit that agenda. Even if it completely disregards, and in some cases, directly contradicts what he's written previously. It's a complete failure from the standpoint that JLC is supposed to be an objective, professional journalist. It clearly reveals he's anything but professional. And that bugs the hell out of me, because I expect more from the Washington Post, one of the most prestigious newspapers in the world. Maybe my standards are out of whack, and I should just not acknowledge when a "professional" writer provides substandard work product.

As for the Snyder/Cerrato FO issue...well basically, I embrace reality here. We don't have a great or even good FO (we also don't have the worst front office, but that's besides the point). We all know what it takes to get a better FO; sign a good GM, and get the hell out of his way while he rebuilds the team.

Really, the problem with the Redskins is lack of patience: (1) Snyder isn't patient enough for rebuilding; and (2) the fans are certainly not patient enough for a few years of rebuilding. Both Snyder and the fans are stuck in a perpetual WIN NOW state. I mean hell...a rookie HC just had an 8-8 season, inheriting a team built for a different style of play (smash-mouth versus WCO). In most other places in the nation, that'd be a fine year. Most places would recognize it takes most head coachs a few years to get the people they need to run their team, the way they see it, in place. Not here in DC, though. People on the call-in shows and on this board are saying our draft class was a bust...as if you can really evaluate a draft class after only one year (especially receivers, who historically do not contribute their first year with a team). I mean hell, people were complaining that Thomas and Kelly were busts after only a few games into the regular season. Multiple posters here are saying we should sign half of the big name free agents this year, as if we're only a few guys from the Superbowl. There is no patience here, from management to fans. It's utterly ridiculous.

With respect to how it changes, specifically regarding Snyder and our front office, there's this thing called reality. Snyder isn't going anywhere, and until he decides to change the way he runs our organization (or provide more feedback and transparency into how the organization is actually run, because all of us have nothing but speculation to deal with...and "accurate" reporting from people like JLC), our FO remains as flawed as it has ever been.

Reality - unless you want to jump ship, complaining about Snyder won't get you anywhere. Because Snyder isn't going anywhere. I don't particularly address a need to change our FO, because in my opinion, posting ad nauseum about it won't do a damn thing. I mean hell, RiC's been posting about Snyder, has a little cute quote about the FO in his sig...and all I can tell he's accomplished in the years he's posted the same thing...over and over and over again...is that he's probably on his way to a nice appointment with a hand surgeon for carpal tunnel syndrome.

kingfish51 · Post by **kingfish51** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:02 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:It is true that somebody without moral authority is NOT the most qualified person to object against the competence of anybody else.

*waves finger...

This is simply a defense mechanism for delusional fans to ignore the facts. Sure, JLC is a dbag ok fine but that doens't make what he's saying not true. But delusional fans don't want to hear that.

OR

There actually ARE people who can disassociate the message from the writing.

There is a difference. I dislike and discount JLC's writing simply because the guy has an agenda, and is willing to write whatever he wants to fit that agenda. Even if it completely disregards, and in some cases, directly contradicts what he's written previously. It's a complete failure from the standpoint that JLC is supposed to be an objective, professional journalist. It clearly reveals he's anything but professional. And that bugs the hell out of me, because I expect more from the Washington Post, one of the most prestigious newspapers in the world. Maybe my standards are out of whack, and I should just not acknowledge when a "professional" writer provides substandard work product.

As for the Snyder/Cerrato FO issue...well basically, I embrace reality here. We don't have a great or even good FO (we also don't have the worst front office, but that's besides the point). We all know what it takes to get a better FO; sign a good GM, and get the hell out of his way while he rebuilds the team.

Really, the problem with the Redskins is lack of patience: (1) Snyder isn't patient enough for rebuilding; and (2) the fans are certainly not patient enough for a few years of rebuilding. Both Snyder and the fans are stuck in a perpetual WIN NOW state. I mean hell...a rookie HC just had an 8-8 season, inheriting a team built for a different style of play (smash-mouth versus WCO). In most other places in the nation, that'd be a fine year. Most places would recognize it takes most head coachs a few years to get the people they need to run their team, the way they see it, in place. Not here in DC, though. People on the call-in shows and on this board are saying our draft class was a bust...as if you can really evaluate a draft class after only one year (especially receivers, who historically do not contribute their first year with a team). I mean hell, people were complaining that Thomas and Kelly were busts after only a few games into the regular season. Multiple posters here are saying we should sign half of the big name free agents this year, as if we're only a few guys from the Superbowl. There is no patience here, from management to fans. It's utterly ridiculous.

With respect to how it changes, specifically regarding Snyder and our front office, there's this thing called reality. Snyder isn't going anywhere, and until he decides to change the way he runs our organization (or provide more feedback and transparency into how the organization is actually run, because all of us have nothing but speculation to deal with...and "accurate" reporting from people like JLC), our FO remains as flawed as it has ever been.

Reality - unless you want to jump ship, complaining about Snyder won't get you anywhere. Because Snyder isn't going anywhere. I don't particularly address a need to change our FO, because in my opinion, posting ad nauseum about it won't do a damn thing. I mean hell, RiC's been posting about Snyder, has a little cute quote about the FO in his sig...and all I can tell he's accomplished in the years he's posted the same thing...over and over and over again...is that he's probably on his way to a nice appointment with a hand surgeon for carpal tunnel syndrome.

Here's the reality. The Little Danny has had 10 years to at least make us a respectable team and has failed. I'll subtract 4 years from that due to the hiring of Joe Gibbs, who got us on track. Now that he's gone, The Little Danny gets to play with his toy again.
Another reality... nobody with any dignity, wants to coach here under the Circus style management of The Little Danny and his butt kissing side kick Vinny Cerrato. Hence, you get stuck with Jim Zorn, a QB coach who has never called an offensive play in his entire career of coaching. A coach who at this moment has a divided locker room with players questioning his leadership, coaching and play calling skills.
There's so much more "reality" about this team that I could write about, but I'm sure you've heard it all. The "reality" is that the fans here are tired of the same old spin from The Little Danny year after year and have been more than patient for the past 10 years. I guess you're right, we should accept the reality that this team is what it is and we shouldn't expect anything more from it. Let's settle for mediocrity and not stir the kettle by voicing our displeasure with the way The Little Danny has ruined this once proud organization as all we'll get out of it is...carpal tunnel.