Rogers gone?

StetSports.com · Post by **StetSports.com** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:26 pm

Does anybody REALLY believe that a team would give its "right arm" for Carlos Rogers?

Particularly the Redskins, who got a true steal in Hall.

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:29 pm

StetSports.com wrote:Does anybody REALLY believe that a team would give its "right arm" for Carlos Rogers?

Particularly the Redskins, who got a true steal in Hall.

There are some on this board who believe so. Actually many. They are saying that we would trade Rogers and keep Springs.

Read the posts before mine.

redskins14ru · Post by **redskins14ru** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:03 am

StetSports.com wrote:Does anybody REALLY believe that a team would give its "right arm" for Carlos Rogers?

Particularly the Redskins, who got a true steal in Hall.

I would say yes

Trample the Elderly · Post by **Trample the Elderly** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:38 am

HEROHAMO wrote:
StetSports.com wrote:Does anybody REALLY believe that a team would give its "right arm" for Carlos Rogers?

Particularly the Redskins, who got a true steal in Hall.

There are some on this board who believe so. Actually many. They are saying that we would trade Rogers and keep Springs.

Read the posts before mine.

I don't think we could get much for him. I was being optimistic at first but the first thing teams would look at is all the dropped interceptions. I was looking at the roster and it seems to me that we have dept at almost every position. We've got a lot of undrafted guys. I see no need to keep Springs in if he can't extend his career at Safety. The same goes with John Jansen. If he can't move to Guard then he's got to move on. These guys have given us their best over the years especially Jansen. I remember when he played with those casts because both of his thumbs were broke.
Unlike Rogers, Jansen and Springs don't run their suck but suck it up for best or worst. I love them to death for their heart but they've got to move on or move to where they can be productive. They know the deal and everyone else does too.
If they treated these guys like Marines then we'd have less problems. You're the man until your dead or I can find someone better.
None of these guys impress me with their performance, their heart yes, especially the veterans.

redskins14ru · Post by **redskins14ru** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:49 am

it is hard for me once I get to liking a player especially springs I hope he is in the rotation at saftey, money wise we my be winners if we get money to another position such as the dline,

drafting a dline man sure would help us sure up the secondary and to keep what we now have and to help our rookie dlineman!

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:42 am

CB is one the most sought after positions in football.

Rogers is more than competent and excelled in the first part of the season.

Logic would say you keep Rogers and Hall and sign Springs as a multipurpose CB/Safety, let Smoot go and let our rookies develop.

Evidently, the FO believes they can find another Hall in free agency because you can't seriously believe Springs will be healthy for more than half the season.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:26 am

El Mexican wrote:CB is one the most sought after positions in football.

Rogers is more than competent and excelled in the first part of the season.

Logic would say you keep Rogers and Hall and sign Springs as a multipurpose CB/Safety, let Smoot go and let our rookies develop.

Evidently, the FO believes they can find another Hall in free agency because you can't seriously believe Springs will be healthy for more than half the season.

I don’ think there is away way the Skins can afford Hall, Springs and Rodgers. So the next best thing is to get something for one of them. We don’t have the rights to Hall, Springs has no worth…Rodgers is the only one with any trade value.

jdubya · Post by **jdubya** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:58 am

So far everyone has said why Springs should be let go, and not why the 'Skins should keep Rogers, aside from his return from the injury and being younger.

Rogers is simply not that good folks.
49 solo tackles in '08.
6 picks for his career.

If I had the time to find the stats about how many big plays he let up, I would.

Springs missed 7 games this season and still had 31 tackles.
Over the same 4 year span as Rogers, Springs has 7 picks, with a lot less games played.

Imagine getting him for a full season.

Keeping a guy on the roster just to keep a guy on the roster is dumb. Rogers is not that good. He is a quality reserve who could start occasionally, but he is not a 16 game starter. He never has been.

Trample the Elderly · Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:47 pm

jdubya wrote:So far everyone has said why Springs should be let go, and not why the 'Skins should keep Rogers, aside from his return from the injury and being younger.

Rogers is simply not that good folks.
49 solo tackles in '08.
6 picks for his career.

If I had the time to find the stats about how many big plays he let up, I would.

Springs missed 7 games this season and still had 31 tackles.
Over the same 4 year span as Rogers, Springs has 7 picks, with a lot less games played.

Imagine getting him for a full season.

Keeping a guy on the roster just to keep a guy on the roster is dumb. Rogers is not that good. He is a quality reserve who could start occasionally, but he is not a 16 game starter. He never has been.

No doubt Springs is better than Rogers and Hall. How long can Springs last though? Can Hall be the guy? I don't think they'll draft a CB because of our pressing needs on the lines?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:59 pm

jdubya wrote:Imagine getting him for a full season.

All you can/will do is imagine...

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:03 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
jdubya wrote:Imagine getting him for a full season.

All you can/will do is imagine...

No, he'll be more healthy as he gets older. That's how it works, right!

Springs is good when healthy...but the key point is he is never healthy. You can't count on the guy to play even a Haynesworth season (that's 3/4 of a season).

Rogers played very well this year, especially coming off the horrific injury he had last year. Usually takes a player 2 seasons to get back into form after a knee injury like that...but Rogers played better than he ever had.

Yeah, he can't catch a cold. He's got stone hands. But he also locks down good receivers, which is a pretty damn important skill. If you're going to make the decision you want a gambler like Hall on your team, you had better make sure you're set at the other CB position with a cover guy. When healthy, Springs gives you that coverage, for sure. But...again...SPRINGS IS NEVER HEALTHY.

Not to mention he's a cool 8 mill against the salary cap this year (and next). That's about what...1 mill per game he plays?

jdubya · Post by **jdubya** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:06 pm

Still nothing about Rogers though....

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:07 pm

I still think this is just typical slanted "reporting" - we are going to see a lot of teams posturing and angling to try and make the best of the off season moves they can - I still think that we will see a defensive backfield that includes Hall, Rogers, Springs and Horton - that is not bad to begin with.

I also think that Springs will be seen as the FS quite a bit next year - he may not be worth much anywhere else and the reality is we have him - I think he stays.

Rogers has been improving - this time last year there were very few that thought he would develop like he has - I'm not sure we will get what he's worth and we may in fact be better off keeping him - This could be very good secondary and might even be great if we can add an effective young DT and DE to provide both even better run defense but also be able to pressure the QB - we are not a bad defense but the really good defenses do not let the other team go down the field and use up the clock as easily as we seemed to do in the 4th quarter way too often this year.

jdubya · Post by **jdubya** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 pm

Springs played 16 games in 2007, fyi.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:18 pm

Springs has had a couple injuries here and there, but it;s silly to just assume "oh he's not gonna play most of the season."

I mean, honestly, what are you basing this on?

He played 16 games the season before last (though only 9 this season.) But how much would you bet he'll get injured. If someone gave you an over/under that Springs will play 13 games next season how much of your money would you be willing to put down on the under?

If you really thought about it, probably not that much.

Anyway, the coaches and front office aren't making these decisions in a vacuum. They have the advice of doctors, trainers and so forth. They think Springs + Hall is > Springs + Rogers or Rogers + Hall.

Like other posters have said, Greg Blache demoted Rogers, if it's true that his trade value is high, we could pick up some of our lost picks for him and improve the team on the field at the same time. It's kind of a win-win and hopefully would pay some dividends. [The pick(s)/player(s) we get back from Rogers would need to perform obviously if that's the direction we take.]

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:10 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
jdubya wrote:Imagine getting him for a full season.

All you can/will do is imagine...

I'm with Chris on this one.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:20 pm

jdubya wrote:So far everyone has said why Springs should be let go, and not why the 'Skins should keep Rogers, aside from his return from the injury and being younger.

Rogers is simply not that good folks.
49 solo tackles in '08.
6 picks for his career.

If I had the time to find the stats about how many big plays he let up, I would.

Springs missed 7 games this season and still had 31 tackles.
Over the same 4 year span as Rogers, Springs has 7 picks, with a lot less games played.

Imagine getting him for a full season.

Keeping a guy on the roster just to keep a guy on the roster is dumb. Rogers is not that good. He is a quality reserve who could start occasionally, but he is not a 16 game starter. He never has been.

Its not good for a corner to have a lot of tackles because that means they are getting beat alot. I didn't hear much of Rogers name at all this season. Which is a good thing. I don't see how you can say Rogers is not a 16 game starter, when considering the lack of pass rush, we probably have the best secondary in the NFL. He doesn't have good hands, other than that he is developing into an excellent cover corner. Springs WILL get hurt. Just like Phillip Daniels always gets hurt, like Marcus Washington, Jansen, Griffin, all those old guys. If a guy is more than likely going to be hurt half the season you don't depend on him.

MDSKINSFAN · Post by **MDSKINSFAN** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:37 pm

Springs has had a couple injuries here and there, but it;s silly to just assume "oh he's not gonna play most of the season."

I mean, honestly, what are you basing this on?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=1233

He has played all 16 games only 4 times in 12 years. And only one in a Redskins uniform.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:37 pm

SKINFAN wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
jdubya wrote:Imagine getting him for a full season.

All you can/will do is imagine...

I'm with Chris on this one.

Exactly. I even held out hope for both Springs and Giffin this year, but neither is going to get over perennial injuries. (Do you remember that article in preseason, where Springs bragged about being in the best shape of his life? Well, if he can't stay healthy when he's in the best shape of his life, when can we expect it?) It's always something with them. Always.

(I'm getting that feeling with Marcus Washington, too. He was awesome in the first couple of years that we had him, but starting with this season I think he's going to be joining Springs' and Griffin's club.)

For the life of me I don't know why Snyder/Cerrato would even consider getting rid of Rogers. I really hope this is JLC blowing more smoke out of his ass. So what if he drops interceptions? I get the feeling they'd rather have someone who can't cover but gets a few more picks a year.

If Rogers doesn't learn how to catch, that's going to keep him from being an elite cornerback, but we're not going to get much better in the FA market. And Springs is most certainly NOT the answer.

Make Hall (really, a gift from heaven) and Rogers the #1 and #2 next year; keep Smoot as the primary nickel man, and if you have to keep Springs around (with his $9 million cap hit, which is why I say CUT him), use him at CB and safety where needed.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:23 pm

Do you see us being able to keep all 4 really.

With Springs earning 9 mil you know Hall and Rodgers are going to want about the same..I don't think it can happend so I think the Skins are looking for the best case...Rodgers is the only one they can get soemthing for.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:49 pm

brad7686 wrote:
jdubya wrote:So far everyone has said why Springs should be let go, and not why the 'Skins should keep Rogers, aside from his return from the injury and being younger.

Rogers is simply not that good folks.
49 solo tackles in '08.
6 picks for his career.

If I had the time to find the stats about how many big plays he let up, I would.

Springs missed 7 games this season and still had 31 tackles.
Over the same 4 year span as Rogers, Springs has 7 picks, with a lot less games played.

Imagine getting him for a full season.

Keeping a guy on the roster just to keep a guy on the roster is dumb. Rogers is not that good. He is a quality reserve who could start occasionally, but he is not a 16 game starter. He never has been.

Its not good for a corner to have a lot of tackles because that means they are getting beat alot. I didn't hear much of Rogers name at all this season. Which is a good thing. I don't see how you can say Rogers is not a 16 game starter, when considering the lack of pass rush, we probably have the best secondary in the NFL. He doesn't have good hands, other than that he is developing into an excellent cover corner. Springs WILL get hurt. Just like Phillip Daniels always gets hurt, like Marcus Washington, Jansen, Griffin, all those old guys. If a guy is more than likely going to be hurt half the season you don't depend on him.

Well, it's easy to say that... if you don't know anything about defense.

Brad, your view is dead on. Carlos can play... his job is to prevent completions, and he does that just about as well as anyone. Interceptions would be great, but his hands are what they are...

Anyone who wants to bank on Springs playing for a whole season must also believe in the Easter Bunny... I love Springs, but he's too fragile to rely on. As it stands, we have a fearsome defensive backfield, with no holes, even with backups in the game. I see no reason to change that. The addition of a DT who can demand attention will dramatically improve the pass rush, AND make our DB's the terror of the NFL.

jdubya · Post by **jdubya** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:08 pm

What football team have you guys been watching??? Springs has a career of making plays and being a dominant corner. Rogers has half of one season in four years.

Rogers is not good. I would rather have Hall and Springs. I would even take Smoot over rogers.

Carlos has never played at a high level for an entire season. And that is the truth.

all of a sudden, after getting demoted, he is going to be the best answer???
Hardly.

The lack of a solid pass rush is a factor, no doubt. However, I would take my chances without Carlos.

Let us not foget they made the postseason without him last year.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:21 pm

jdubya wrote:What football team have you guys been watching???

The Washington Redskins.

Springs has a career of making plays and being a dominant corner. Rogers has half of one season in four years.

I disagree. He improved in his second year, improved significantly in his 3rd, and made an astounding recovery from his injury this year.

Rogers is not good. I would rather have Hall and Springs. I would even take Smoot over rogers.

OK. But I wouldn't.

Carlos has never played at a high level for an entire season. And that is the truth.

all of a sudden, after getting demoted, he is going to be the best answer???
Hardly.

Springs will never play at a high level for another season. We'd be lucky to get more than 7 games out of him next year. Since he can't be the solution, who will be? There is no way that we will find a replacement CB for Rogers who will play for less $$$ than Springs. (Unless we draft one, which will take away valuable picks from areas of need.)

The lack of a solid pass rush is a factor, no doubt. However, I would take my chances without Carlos.

OK. But I wouldn't.

Let us not foget they made the postseason without him last year.

And you're claiming that this fact is somehow relevant? :hmm:

Can you name the players who were injured when we made the playoffs? Are we better off without all of them, too?

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:01 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Springs has had a couple injuries here and there, but it;s silly to just assume "oh he's not gonna play most of the season."

I mean, honestly, what are you basing this on?

His history.

2008 (WAS) played in 9 games.
2007 (WAS) played in 16 games.
2006 (WAS) played in 9 games.
2005 (WAS) played in 15 games.
2004 (WAS) played in 15 games.
2003 (SEA) played in 12 games.
2002 (SEA) played in 15 games.
2001 (SEA) played in 8 games.
2000 (SEA) played in 16 games.

Since he's been a Redskin, he's played in 64 of 80 games. This century, he's played in 105 of 144 games (73% of games, or an average of 11.68 games a season). He's always been someone who's been injury prone, and you may also recall that when he's injured and he still plays, he's not anywhere near as good as when he's healthy. He just can't play as physically as he normally does.

If you want to go into a season thinking you're going to get the services for the entire year of a 34 CB who has played ONE full season since 2000...you're a bit delusional. History tells us that Springs will get injured and he will miss games.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:30 pm

Remember when everyone would come on here during the season and complain about how Rodgers couldn't catch balls and constantly missed out on big play opportunities? Funny how things change when there is the possibility of lossing him.

Personally, if we can get good draft picks for him, it may be in the teams best interest (this is contingent on us actually getting a half decent, non behind-kissing GM). But, he is a good, not great, CB. I would place the signing of Hall as priority #1 for our defensive backfield.