Key to Redskins Future Success

[fleetus]

I think the key to the Redskins future success is competition at every position. The Redskins have traded away draft picks to chase veterans too many times. What it has created is a core of over-priced veterans who don't have to compete to keep their starting job. Once a large portion of your cap space is eaten up by 8-10 players, then there is not much money for depth. Because draft picks were given away to acquire some of these players, there aren't as many quality young players pushing the veterans for their jobs. It breeds a locker room where a handful of prima donnas rule because they are very secure and comfortable in their jobs. Most of the best teams in the NFL routinely draft players to backup their stars. Those stars know that if they have a bad stretch or go down to injury they may lose their starting job to a younger player with a lower salary. They stay hungry and compete at a top level or they are shown the door.

Look at the Giants. You would think with Strahan and Umenyiora, they would have been set at DE a few years ago. Not so. They drafted Kiwanuka (2006 - 1st round) and Tuck (2005 3rd round) anyway. I imagine many of their fans complained that they had greater needs in other areas of the team, but the Giants used discipline and drafted the best players available. This created some serious competition on their defense and made all of their players better. It also allowed them to transition after Strahan retired without missing a beat. they didn't run out and sign a high-priced free agent (Jason Taylor) and they didn't suffer a drop in production. Snyder and Cerrato need to learn this lesson and build through the draft every year without fail and without exception.

Cerrato drafted in this fashion in 2008. Now in 2009, we go into the draft without the 2nd and 4th round picks. (and maybe the 7th too?) So it seems after finally breathing some much needed youth into this team we may have regressed back into the old habits again. If this team is going to compete for a Super Bowl any time in the near future, it will happen because the FO begins valuing draft picks properly. If they can breed competition at every position on the team, then we will make a run at the CHampionship, but not before, IMHO.

[mastdark81]

I think the key to the Redskins future success is competition at every position. The Redskins have traded away draft picks to chase veterans too many times. What it has created is a core of over-priced veterans who don't have to compete to keep their starting job. Once a large portion of your cap space is eaten up by 8-10 players, then there is not much money for depth. Because draft picks were given away to acquire some of these players, there aren't as many quality young players pushing the veterans for their jobs. It breeds a locker room where a handful of prima donnas rule because they are very secure and comfortable in their jobs. Most of the best teams in the NFL routinely draft players to backup their stars. Those stars know that if they have a bad stretch or go down to injury they may lose their starting job to a younger player with a lower salary. They stay hungry and compete at a top level or they are shown the door.

Look at the Giants. You would think with Strahan and Umenyiora, they would have been set at DE a few years ago. Not so. They drafted Kiwanuka (2006 - 1st round) and Tuck (2005 3rd round) anyway. I imagine many of their fans complained that they had greater needs in other areas of the team, but the Giants used discipline and drafted the best players available. This created some serious competition on their defense and made all of their players better. It also allowed them to transition after Strahan retired without missing a beat. they didn't run out and sign a high-priced free agent (Jason Taylor) and they didn't suffer a drop in production. Snyder and Cerrato need to learn this lesson and build through the draft every year without fail and without exception.

Cerrato drafted in this fashion in 2008. Now in 2009, we go into the draft without the 2nd and 4th round picks. (and maybe the 7th too?) So it seems after finally breathing some much needed youth into this team we may have regressed back into the old habits again. If this team is going to compete for a Super Bowl any time in the near future, it will happen because the FO begins valuing draft picks properly. If they can breed competition at every position on the team, then we will make a run at the CHampionship, but not before, IMHO.

I agree with most of your post and would like to add that it was probably difficult to evaluate the talent of our offensive line during camp for the fact that our defensive line just don't have any natural pass rushers. Jason was probably getting good clean lanes to pass in like our opposing quarterbacks have been getting this year, therefore looking good and comfortable. A Jason Tuck talent on this defensive line, going against our starters in practice would have exposed alot of our weaks spots on the oline. They didn't see this until the season started unfortunately. So yes competition helps alot.

[Chris Luva Luva]

There isn't any one key... We need a battering ram.

[PulpExposure]

There isn't any one key... We need a battering ram.

You're back to being super negative Chris...I can write you a script for xanex, if you'd like?

[VetSkinsFan]

There isn't any one key... We need a battering ram.

You're back to being super negative Chris...I can write you a script for xanex, if you'd like?

Can I get some Ambien? I just can't sleep after reading all these fact laced posts...

[fleetus]

There isn't any one key... We need a battering ram.

You're back to being super negative Chris...I can write you a script for xanex, if you'd like?

Can I get some Ambien? I just can't sleep after reading all these fact laced posts...

You're right, there isn't any ONE key. But a fundamental change in how the FO does business would change the whole attitude of this team. Instead of a team whose stars are relatively complacent, we would have players who know they have to earn their jobs.

Doesn't it seem strange that we have alot of "STAR" players who come here and under-perform? Doesn't it seem strange that some other teams seem to routinely get younger, less experienced players to rise to a high level of play? Sure we have some occasional luck but then we also have a revolving door of big time players who disappoint us and then get paid to just go away. I don't think the FO and scouts were wrong in their evaluation of all these players. I don't think our coaching staff has been so poor every year that they can't properly use any of these players. I think we have an attitude of complacency in the locker room. I don't mean that these players suck or won't work hard. I mean that when it comes time to lay it on the line and focus on each game like their jobs depended on it, they don't have to. They know there is no one who can seriously compete for their job and in some cases they know their signing bonus was so big that they can't be cut. We need to draft at least 7 new players a year plus the occasional UFA who makes the team to ensure that there are always 15-20 young players in their first few years playing in the league. Then, every chance we get, we need to look to add more draft picks rather than giving them away.

It's not any one player, any one position, any one coach or the front office. It starts and ends with the attitude that exists in the whole organization. Right now, the Skins are a little top-heavy, a little too old, lacking proper depth at numerous positions and lacking a hungry, "rip your eyes out" attitude.

[VetSkinsFan]

My reply was more general, not specific to your post.

[riggofan]

I think the key to the Redskins future success is competition at every position.

I heard radio callers hammering Cerrato about the same thing this morning. Cerrato kind of dances around the topic by pointing out that Chris Horton has been a big success. hahah. Its almost hilarious to listen to him.

So yeah, I agree with what you're saying, but don't you think Snyder tried this already? He brought in Marty, and then he didn't have the fortitude to follow through with the plan.

I'm not sure there is any evidence Snyder has it in him to take that route, be patient and build a solid football team. The fans probably share some of the blame as well. There wasn't exactly an uprising when Marty was canned.

[fleetus]

I think the key to the Redskins future success is competition at every position.

I heard radio callers hammering Cerrato about the same thing this morning. Cerrato kind of dances around the topic by pointing out that Chris Horton has been a big success. hahah. Its almost hilarious to listen to him.

So yeah, I agree with what you're saying, but don't you think Snyder tried this already? He brought in Marty, and then he didn't have the fortitude to follow through with the plan.

I'm not sure there is any evidence Snyder has it in him to take that route, be patient and build a solid football team. The fans probably share some of the blame as well. There wasn't exactly an uprising when Marty was canned.

Yeah, but Marty was boring too. So fans didn't get upset to see his slow, play action, Tony Bank led offense go away. I think we lay too much of the blame on the HC's. Many times the HC is the guy to blame, but when you look at the last decade of Skins teams, I see numerous different approaches but they all fell short. Gibbs did the best job overall because he had Snyder's respect. But still, Gibbs was never a Scout or Personnel man, so all he could do is listen to the player evaluations given to him. He was too busy with running the team to be able to go watch hundreds of college football games and interview hundreds of players. In the end, Gibbs tried to invoke his old school attitude in some fairly prima donna players. Yeah, these guys would repsect and listen to Gibbs. But when they had to dig deep in a big game, they didn't always deliver. How many times did we see mistakes interrupt drive after drive. Can't blame Gibbs for false starts and dropped passes.

So, I agree with you that Snyder may not have the patience to build a solid team with competition at every position, but I don't think Schotty was even a half-hearted attempt at that approach. Cerrato's 2008 draft and the 2007 off-season are the only two good examples of the FO using their evaluation skills rather than just blowing money, IMHO.

[PulpExposure]

So, I agree with you that Snyder may not have the patience to build a solid team with competition at every position, but I don't think Schotty was even a half-hearted attempt at that approach. Cerrato's 2008 draft and the 2007 off-season are the only two good examples of the FO using their evaluation skills rather than just blowing money, IMHO.

The 2007 and 2008 offseasons were really pretty good overall for the health of the Redskins, as a franchise. IF this is the trend you see in the future for us (i.e., emphasizing the draft and draft picks (i.e., trading down for additional picks), signing free agents we know fit the system (Fletcher and Smoot) to relatively modest free agent contracts and not going after the big names).

However, as much of an optimist that I am, I'm not wholly convinced that this wasn't just the way the past 2 offseasons went. The worst thing (aside from firing zorn), would be for the Skins to spend like crazy in the offseason on free agents (notably, the will-be super-expensive, always-injured Haynesworth).

[crazyhorse1]

There isn't any one key... We need a battering ram.

You're back to being super negative Chris...I can write you a script for xanex, if you'd like?

Can I get some Ambien? I just can't sleep after reading all these fact laced posts...

You're right, there isn't any ONE key. But a fundamental change in how the FO does business would change the whole attitude of this team. Instead of a team whose stars are relatively complacent, we would have players who know they have to earn their jobs.

Doesn't it seem strange that we have alot of "STAR" players who come here and under-perform? Doesn't it seem strange that some other teams seem to routinely get younger, less experienced players to rise to a high level of play? Sure we have some occasional luck but then we also have a revolving door of big time players who disappoint us and then get paid to just go away. I don't think the FO and scouts were wrong in their evaluation of all these players. I don't think our coaching staff has been so poor every year that they can't properly use any of these players. I think we have an attitude of complacency in the locker room. I don't mean that these players suck or won't work hard. I mean that when it comes time to lay it on the line and focus on each game like their jobs depended on it, they don't have to. They know there is no one who can seriously compete for their job and in some cases they know their signing bonus was so big that they can't be cut. We need to draft at least 7 new players a year plus the occasional UFA who makes the team to ensure that there are always 15-20 young players in their first few years playing in the league. Then, every chance we get, we need to look to add more draft picks rather than giving them away.

It's not any one player, any one position, any one coach or the front office. It starts and ends with the attitude that exists in the whole organization. Right now, the Skins are a little top-heavy, a little too old, lacking proper depth at numerous positions and lacking a hungry, "rip your eyes out" attitude.

The hero worship of Gibbs is one my nerves. Gibbs is one of prime architects of our demise.

1) He wasted years with Brunell.
2) His record was miserable in spite of younger personnel.
3) He didn't lift a finger as the OL aged.
4) He let key personnel go and alienated others.
5) He did nothing for the pass rush.
6) He wasted time and draft picks with Campbell.

We currently have four adequate players on offense and about eight adequate or better defensive players, none of whom play on the line, and nothing but Rock when it comes to special teams.

One thing I can say about Gibbs: he was smart enough to take flight when he saw disaster coming.

[redskincity]

For the Redskins to be successful, we will need to get rid of Cerrato and bring in a real GM with performance scouts and so fourth.

Drafting the best player on the boards as opposed to drafting team needs ain't cutting it. Then on top of that we go out and over-pay for a washed up bum whose over-all intentions was to get paid. It will not and has not worked thus far.

Blow up the front office then blow up the Offensive and Defensive lines.

[Redskin in Canada]

The Redskins need a solid GM.

Everything else is relatively easy if you ask me ...

[SkinsJock]

The Redskins need a solid GM.

Everything else is relatively easy if you ask me ...

that seems fairly obvious

we could be surprised but I doubt it

[Skinsfan55]

The Redskins need a solid GM.

Everything else is relatively easy if you ask me ...

I think they have one, we need to actually give Vinny a chance. For someone who calls me excessively negative I'm actually pretty optimistic about the team's future. Vinny has a good track record in the NFL and now he's actually got full control of personnel decisions we're going to see some results.

Think about it, Dan Snyder has pretty much hired nothing but celebrity coaches who have demanded control of personnel. Give Vinny an actual chance to run the team for a few years, I think we're going to see soon that he 2008 draft was a winner. (Horton looks like a solid player, Fred Davis is impressing all the coaches in practice and Kelly and Thomas will come around, WR's have a steep learinng curve. Rinehart, Moore and Tryon look like they could be decent role players even.)

[El Mexican]

The Redskins need a solid GM.

Everything else is relatively easy if you ask me ...

I think they have one, we need to actually give Vinny a chance. For someone who calls me excessively negative I'm actually pretty optimistic about the team's future. Vinny has a good track record in the NFL and now he's actually got full control of personnel decisions we're going to see some results.

Think about it, Dan Snyder has pretty much hired nothing but celebrity coaches who have demanded control of personnel. Give Vinny an actual chance to run the team for a few years, I think we're going to see soon that he 2008 draft was a winner. (Horton looks like a solid player, Fred Davis is impressing all the coaches in practice and Kelly and Thomas will come around, WR's have a steep learinng curve. Rinehart, Moore and Tryon look like they could be decent role players even.)

As much as I'd like Zorn to succeed, I just don't see it with the current architecture of the organization, Skinsfan.

In world-class bussinesses, the coach is a direct selection of the GM. The GM is his boss. The owner does not interfere in this relation and stays back and signs the checks for both. This structure gives the organization balance, because interfering with the job description of someone else reflects badly on you and the whole organization.

With this team there's a completely opposite plan. The owner chose the coach AND the GM, which by the way, is his pal. Do you see a balanced organization with this power-structure? I don't. Until Snyder understands this, we will see more and more 8-8 and 6-10 seasons.

Being a succesful bussinessman should have taught him that you can't do everything by yourself, in this case, being owner and GM. You seek people who specialize in this sort of thing and have a professional relation with them. How does Cerrato fit that description?

[SkinsJock]

... The hero worship of Gibbs is one my nerves. Gibbs is one of prime architects of our demise.

1) He wasted years with Brunell.
2) His record was miserable in spite of younger personnel.
3) He didn't lift a finger as the OL aged.
4) He let key personnel go and alienated others.
5) He did nothing for the pass rush.
6) He wasted time and draft picks with Campbell.

We currently have four adequate players on offense and about eight adequate or better defensive players, none of whom play on the line, and nothing but Rock when it comes to special teams.

One thing I can say about Gibbs: he was smart enough to take flight when he saw disaster coming.

I may have missed something here - this thread is basically about keys to the Redskins future - I kind of wonder what Gibbs has to do with that?

our current status is due to many things including Gibbs but saying that Gibbs has something to do with where we are going is not productive at all. Maybe some here think he's still running the team?

OR maybe the future in some way is tied to Gibbs? If that is the case then maybe we should also check with Spurrier and Marty? As former coaches they might have something to do with the future of our team.

If you cannot contribute something meaningful to a thread about our future I guess then the next best thing is to use the thread as an opportunity to bash the ex coach because to some here he is responsible for where we are going because of what he did.


does any of this make any sense to anyone or am I completely wrong about what we were discussing here?

[Sir_Monk]

It must be all the fault of Joe Gibbs because he didn't find a starter and depth player for every position. Furthermore, Gibbs didn't leave Joe Gibbs at HC, nor did he persuade Snyder to give the team to a cooperative of experts from THN plus ESPN.

Even worse, Gibbs took the team to the playoffs twice by pounding the brains out of opponents at the end of each season. Better to have a team with no intensity.

Meanwhile, maybe we ought to see the players that Cerrato drafts this year, and see if Zorn has learned some -- such as never calling out an individual player.

How about:

- get some young depth on the OL

- find a WR

- don't mess with parts of the teanm that work. And absolutely do not rip out the foundation that Gibbs started to build.

[Gibbs4Life]

It obvious what Vinny will try to do in the draft this year, trade back, add picks, specifically a 2nd, here is our shopping list in order


OL
DE
WR/KR PERCY HARVIN!!!
OL
OL
OL

[El Mexican]

WR again?

Didn't we draft three guys this year? That strategy would seems very "Detroit Lions" to me.

Stiffen the OL/DL.

[Thundersloth]

There isn't any one key... We need a battering ram.

You're back to being super negative Chris...I can write you a script for xanex, if you'd like?

Can I get some Ambien? I just can't sleep after reading all these fact laced posts...

You're right, there isn't any ONE key. But a fundamental change in how the FO does business would change the whole attitude of this team. Instead of a team whose stars are relatively complacent, we would have players who know they have to earn their jobs.

Doesn't it seem strange that we have alot of "STAR" players who come here and under-perform? Doesn't it seem strange that some other teams seem to routinely get younger, less experienced players to rise to a high level of play? Sure we have some occasional luck but then we also have a revolving door of big time players who disappoint us and then get paid to just go away. I don't think the FO and scouts were wrong in their evaluation of all these players. I don't think our coaching staff has been so poor every year that they can't properly use any of these players. I think we have an attitude of complacency in the locker room. I don't mean that these players suck or won't work hard. I mean that when it comes time to lay it on the line and focus on each game like their jobs depended on it, they don't have to. They know there is no one who can seriously compete for their job and in some cases they know their signing bonus was so big that they can't be cut. We need to draft at least 7 new players a year plus the occasional UFA who makes the team to ensure that there are always 15-20 young players in their first few years playing in the league. Then, every chance we get, we need to look to add more draft picks rather than giving them away.

It's not any one player, any one position, any one coach or the front office. It starts and ends with the attitude that exists in the whole organization. Right now, the Skins are a little top-heavy, a little too old, lacking proper depth at numerous positions and lacking a hungry, "rip your eyes out" attitude.

Fleetus, when you think about it, it makes perfect sense why we go after big name free-agents and make trades for big name guys that are usually at the end of their career or underperform. Dannyboy is trying to make money. Yes, we get a hit through the draft or a good free-agent signing but overall you can't sell the jerseys if the guy isn't a big name player. How many #93 Phillip Daniels jerseys do you see around the stadium, now how many #55 Jason Taylor jerseys do you see? Dannyboy is NOT an idiot when it comes to marketing this team. I can't fault the guy for doing that, but it comes at a price and that price is fitting square pegs into round holes usually. We give out our draft picks like halloween candy. We've given away 3 draft picks trading for D-linemen (Taylor and James) who have 28 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble between them (all the stats belong to Taylor since James racked up goose eggs in every statistical category before being released). Take DE Kendall Langford drafted in the 3rd round, he has 31 tackles and 2 sacks but he's going to be in the league much longer than JT.

Somebody has to be held responsible for the goofy picks and trades that take place and the FO is the best place to start. Let's take a look at Erasmus James again. He has had MULTIPLE knee surgeries which is why Minnesota was going to release him, when Vinny called and told them we would be interested in trading for him. I know it was a 7th round pick but that's where we picked up our only bright spot in the draft THIS YEAR. Devin Thomas has the potential to be a great talent, but do you realize he really only had 1 season of any statistical consequence, 85 total catches, 79 in his last year with 1,350 total yards, 1,290 his last year. I would like to have seen a pick with more consistency, especially for our first pick of the draft.

Based on their track record, the FO goes out and gets a guy not evaluating how well that player is going to fit into the current system. Keep in mind, Vinny takes credit for the Archuletta, Lloyd and Duckett signings none of whom worked at all. Now on the good side, he did sign FA London Fletcher, got D'Angelo Hall and picked Chris Horton. I think it's easier to draft a rookie and mold him into what you want than to sign a free-agent and hope he can fit into a scheme. Veteran players have already developed habits as it relates to the NFL game, habits they can't or won't break.

I agree that it's an attitude that eminates throughout this whole organization but I believe that attitude DOES start with the front office. It seems players are able to go above the head coach which should not be an option. When the whole Portis benching came to a boiling point and things were said about the head coach, management should have come out and said, "We hired a head coach to make those decisions and if he chose to sit a particular player, then that's the final decision." But they didn't do that, the silence was almost deafening.

[welch]

I think Snyder has, actually, learned some things from Gibbs.

I hate to admit it, but the Giants are the best-run team in the NFL. Ask THN, and Manning was a joke, and Coughlin was a terrible mistake. People insisted that Coughlin was "too tough" for today's "sensitive" players.

I'll take the stability and toughness the Giants have shown. That OL. A respectable QB who doesn't try to win every game by himself. Anybody remember the greatest Manning QB, Archie, who had no team and never won?)

This Redskin team has a good defense, good runners, a solid QB (and, if Brennan learns, maybe some depth). The OL is thin, meaning they were powerful until players got hurt. They have only one breakaway receiver.

D Thomas and M Kelley have to show something. More than anything, that's the key: they can't draft both OL and WR unless they get phenomenally lucky.

I think that's what they need in the off-season.

[Thundersloth]

The Redskins need a solid GM.

Everything else is relatively easy if you ask me ...

I think they have one, we need to actually give Vinny a chance. For someone who calls me excessively negative I'm actually pretty optimistic about the team's future. Vinny has a good track record in the NFL and now he's actually got full control of personnel decisions we're going to see some results.

Think about it, Dan Snyder has pretty much hired nothing but celebrity coaches who have demanded control of personnel. Give Vinny an actual chance to run the team for a few years, I think we're going to see soon that he 2008 draft was a winner. (Horton looks like a solid player, Fred Davis is impressing all the coaches in practice and Kelly and Thomas will come around, WR's have a steep learinng curve. Rinehart, Moore and Tryon look like they could be decent role players even.)

Skinsfan 55 you make it seem like Vinny hasn't been around that long, when, in fact, he's been around every year the Dannyboy has owned the team except for the 1 Marty year (which seemed like the only season we made good moves dumping salaries and signing guys who fit our scheme).

"Cerrato did nothing to mend fences with the fans during his early days as Casserly’s replacement. For example, while the big boss was chasing the biggest names in the game—Jeff George, Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith—Cerrato revealed a fetish for players who were already out of the game."
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=35467