Offensive Line

[Chris Luva Luva]

With a major reshuffling of the offensive line, just how well do you expect Jason to play if that's the supposed main reason for his spotty play?

I agree. But what else can we do?? With the exception of keeping Samuels at LT there is no way we can keep any of the other guys. You have to change at some point if you ever want to get better.

I dunno, just throwing it out there that I don't htink we'll see a completely revamped line.

Samuels, Raybach and Thomas WILL be back.

[PulpExposure]

we ought to trade Samuals today showed we don't need him and he is overrated. He has some value and we can get something for him. Heyer is fine at tackle and put Rhinhart at guard and lets see if we can get a another guard or tackle in the draft.

Sure, trade Samuels. Have any idea what his cap hit would be next year? I think it may be 10 million or so. Yay to that idea.

Think, tell me when you would know. He is still overrated and unproductive and we still don't need him.

Fine, I'll do your research for you. The cap hit we'd take if we release him is $9.492 million.

[Cooley47]

I agree Thomas. If Samuels could come back HEALTHY and in good shape I would love it. I just dont really see it. And please god not Rabach. Please. If Samuels can come back ready to play...

Samuels-Rinehart-Rookie(Unger/Mack/Luigs/Caldwell)-Thomas-Heyer.

They have to get one of those centers. They are all very good and we desperately need one. If Samuels can't come back PLEASE draft a big Tackle like Oher, Smith or Monroe.

[DEHog]

Because of the cap I think we have to stay the course for another year with some small chances...Jansen shold be gone let Kendall test the FA market to see what he's worth...than make an offer. Trade down to get more pick...T look deeper than G so take a T in the 2nd round and a G in the 3rd pick up a center late hope that Heyer and Rinehart work out??
Cut Fabini as well

[PulpExposure]

Because of the cap I think we have to stay the course for another year with some small chances...Jansen shold be gone let Kendall test the FA market to see what he's worth...than make an offer. Trade down to get more pick...T look deeper than G so take a T in the 2nd round and a G in the 3rd pick up a center late hope that Heyer and Rinehart work out??
Cut Fabini as well

We don't have a 2nd rounder, remember? Or a 4th...

[DEHog]

Because of the cap I think we have to stay the course for another year with some small chances...Jansen shold be gone let Kendall test the FA market to see what he's worth...than make an offer. Trade down to get more pick...T look deeper than G so take a T in the 2nd round and a G in the 3rd pick up a center late hope that Heyer and Rinehart work out??
Cut Fabini as well

We don't have a 2nd rounder, remember? Or a 4th...

Do you notice the TRADE DOWN part of my post???

[brad7686]

If we have to start Stephon Heyer next year we might as well start preparing the Qb's now.

[DEHog]

If we have to start Stephon Heyer next year we might as well start preparing the Qb's now.

For what??

[VetSkinsFan]

If we have to start Stephon Heyer next year we might as well start preparing the Qb's now.

For what??

Pummeling

Keep in mind, we need more work than JUST the o-line...the whole draft cannot be blown on 5 positions.

[PulpExposure]

Because of the cap I think we have to stay the course for another year with some small chances...Jansen shold be gone let Kendall test the FA market to see what he's worth...than make an offer. Trade down to get more pick...T look deeper than G so take a T in the 2nd round and a G in the 3rd pick up a center late hope that Heyer and Rinehart work out??
Cut Fabini as well

We don't have a 2nd rounder, remember? Or a 4th...

Do you notice the TRADE DOWN part of my post???

No, I didn't, apologies. I hope they trade down also...

[DEHog]

Because of the cap I think we have to stay the course for another year with some small chances...Jansen shold be gone let Kendall test the FA market to see what he's worth...than make an offer. Trade down to get more pick...T look deeper than G so take a T in the 2nd round and a G in the 3rd pick up a center late hope that Heyer and Rinehart work out??
Cut Fabini as well

We don't have a 2nd rounder, remember? Or a 4th...

Do you notice the TRADE DOWN part of my post???

No, I didn't, apologies. I hope they trade down also...

Vinny seemed to indicate that they want to move down I also hope they do as well...

[HEROHAMO]

Every one is so quick to put the blame on the offensive line.

You guys do know that Portis managed to pick up 1400 yards rushing. If the offensive line was so bad how did we manage to rush for so much?

Do not tell me that Portis managed to gain those yards all on his own.

Yes this line is getting old. But still Jansen and Thomas were both coming back from injuries the previous year. I think we need to get younger but I surely do not blame the line for the problems this year. I give the line three bad games total. Both Giants games and the Steelers game. Thats three games in which the line may or may not be blamed for losses.

One young tackle and guard should shore up any issues on the line. The number of sacks in my opinion is a matter of the Qb holding on to the ball too long and having no where to throw the ball.

[VetSkinsFan]

Every one is so quick to put the blame on the offensive line.

You guys do know that Portis managed to pick up 1400 yards rushing. If the offensive line was so bad how did we manage to rush for so much?

Do not tell me that Portis managed to gain those yards all on his own.

Yes this line is getting old. But still Jansen and Thomas were both coming back from injuries the previous year. I think we need to get younger but I surely do not blame the line for the problems this year. I give the line three bad games total. Both Giants games and the Steelers game. Thats three games in which the line may or may not be blamed for losses.

One young tackle and guard should shore up any issues on the line. The number of sacks in my opinion is a matter of the Qb holding on to the ball too long and having no where to throw the ball.

I think that the line isn't bad, it's just too old to have enough gas for the whole season. Couple that with running Portis in to the ground. THAT'S where it came from IMO.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I think that the line isn't bad, it's just too old to have enough gas for the whole season. Couple that with running Portis in to the ground. THAT'S where it came from IMO.

With a more balanced attack we'd get more out of them, I agree.

[SkinsFreak]

Every one is so quick to put the blame on the offensive line.

You guys do know that Portis managed to pick up 1400 yards rushing. If the offensive line was so bad how did we manage to rush for so much?

Do not tell me that Portis managed to gain those yards all on his own.

Um, you do realize that run blocking and pass blocking are two completely different disciplines that require completely different techniques, right? For example, Jansen wasn't too shabby in the run blocking category, but routinely got smoked when pass blocking. It's the poor pass protection they are referring to, not the run blocking. JC has been sacked 37 times, 4th most in the league.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Every one is so quick to put the blame on the offensive line.

I agree...to an extent. I don't mean to turn this into a TC vs JC debate but as I stated in another thread, the offensive line had the same concerns last year (albeit to a lesser degree) when JC was under the helm. When Todd came in for those 4 games, they didn't look as bad (offensive line). Did they look stellar? No. Where they probowlers? No.

It's amazing what a QB can do for the surrounding players when he knows where he wants to go with the ball, makes quick decisions and has a quick release.

But in the end we end up where we started, everyone shares the blame.

If our WR's got open quicker, maybe Jason could throw the ball sooner and not have the line block as long, you could reciprocate that statement and it'd be true too! lolol

We just need to start somewhere (ideally, the line) and slowly over the course of 2-3 years rebuild.

[SkinsFreak]

Chris, I agree completely.

[PulpExposure]

Every one is so quick to put the blame on the offensive line.

I agree...to an extent. I don't mean to turn this into a TC vs JC debate but as I stated in another thread, the offensive line had the same concerns last year (albeit to a lesser degree) when JC was under the helm. When Todd came in for those 4 games, they didn't look as bad (offensive line). Did they look stellar? No. Where they probowlers? No.

That's not exactly true. Collins has a quicker release, yeah...but our line wasn't good at passblocking last year, either. Don't kid yourself. Collins was sacked twice in the Bears game, twice in the Giants game, once in the Vikings game, and three times in the Dallas game. That's an average of 2 per game (which would prorate out to 32 in a year). Skins QBs this year have been sacked 37 times so far...a rate slightly higher, but the sample size is larger, and the Skins have faced truly elite passrushing teams this year at the top of their game (namely the Steelers and the Ravens).

And, don't you remember what the Seahawks did to us in the playoff game? Our line absolutely got dominated, and I remember thinking I couldn't wait for Jansen to get back.

Last year, we all knew that Heyer wasn't great at passblocking, because we kept ey in to help him with the passblocking quite a lot last year. However, we thought it'd get better with Jansen back. The truly shocking thing with this year is how bad Jansen turned out to be at passblocking once he came back from his injury.

[Chris Luva Luva]

That's not exactly true. Collins has a quicker release, yeah...but our line wasn't good at passblocking last year, either.

Nobody is saying that they were stellar or that Collins attributes healed the issue. I'm simply stating that Collins abilities helped the offensive line out quite a bit.

So what that Collins got sacked? When Collins was given ample time, he made something of it, that's something that we cannot say of JC. The offense was efficient and they won games with a balanced attack. We do not have the worst line in the NFL, it doesn't need to be completely dismantled to the extreme that some want to believe and I think that improved QB play will allow the line to perform better.

[SkinsFreak]

So what that Collins got sacked? When Collins was given ample time, he made something of it, that's something that we cannot say of JC.

I'm not arguing your point entirely, but in all fairness, JC is ranked 11th in the league in completions and 10th in attempts... equating to a rank of 13th in completion percentage. This suggests, when given time to throw with decent pass protection, he does make things happen.

Now, I've said before he lacks the stones to get the ball down field and often dumps the ball off to a check-down, no doubt. Evidenced by JC being ranked 18th in completions over 20 yards. But, passes to RB's out of the back-field are prevalent and a staple of a WCO.

Nevertheless, this o-line will need to be over-hauled over the next few years. I think a stud tackle is the first priority.

[Chris Luva Luva]

So what that Collins got sacked? When Collins was given ample time, he made something of it, that's something that we cannot say of JC.

I'm not arguing your point entirely, but in all fairness, JC is ranked 11th in the league in completions and 10th in attempts... equating to a rank of 13th in completion percentage. This suggests, when given time to throw with decent pass protection, he does make things happen.

Now, I've said before he lacks the stones to get the ball down field and often dumps the ball off to a check-down, no doubt. Evidenced by JC being ranked 18th in completions over 20 yards. But, passes to RB's out of the back-field are prevalent and a staple of a WCO.

Nevertheless, this o-line will need to be over-hauled over the next few years. I think a stud tackle is the first priority.

Passes 3 yards short of the 1st down marker don't impress me, sorry. We've already done that dance with Mark Brunell. Pass the flipping ball past the flipping 1st down marker on a consistent basis and then completion stats mean something.

The line can't be destroyed like many here want, i agree with you in that it'll take 2-3 years to get a complete overhaul which is very reasonable. My point that improved QB play will drastically help the offensive line was made because we can't magically get a probowl line in a short amount of time. Jason is going to have help them help him.

[Countertrey]

My point that improved QB play will drastically help the offensive line was made because we can't magically get a probowl line in a short amount of time. Jason is going to have help them help him.

Don't see it happening. Jason has demonstrated that, aside from the occasional impressive scramble, he has no ability to improvise. In order to help out a porous line, he would need to make plays where none exist... I don't see him doing that.

[Chris Luva Luva]

My point that improved QB play will drastically help the offensive line was made because we can't magically get a probowl line in a short amount of time. Jason is going to have help them help him.

Don't see it happening. Jason has demonstrated that, aside from the occasional impressive scramble, he has no ability to improvise. In order to help out a porous line, he would need to make plays where none exist... I don't see him doing that.

Personally, I don't see it either. Well.... Ughhhh..... Jeezz...

IF Jason can really grasp the offense next year and not have to think about where his outlets and secondary WR's are... Then maybe he'll be able to do it. Like it or not, this is why people are clamoring for Colt. Colt has shown that he has a propensity for big plays and getting out of jams.

I mean, lets tell it how it really is. At this point Jason hasn't shown anything that makes you believe he'll be able to really improvise consistently. Things just have to be far too perfect for him to be effective. This line won't be "perfect" for another year or two. The WR's are in the same boat... I know that it seems that I'm getting far off of topic but all of thse positions work together and I just don't know about Jason. He....he does nothing to elevate the offense... Nothing....ever....ever.... I can't think of one thing that he did despite all the BS around him that made him shine.

Thats the x-factor that Colt showed in the preseason. Thats why people are excited about him. I haven't pledged allegiance one way or the other yet. But... If you asked me at this moment who I think would make the offensive line look better, it'd be Colt. If you wanted a quick answer, it'd be cus of his quick release and ability to release the ball many different ways. Colts delivery is soley dependent on the situation and need.

Sure, Colt might get sacked more than Jason does, just as TC did.... But TC (in Al's offense) and Colt (potentially) bring the possibility that a 3rd and long is very likely to be converted and not dumped off....

[PulpExposure]

The line can't be destroyed like many here want, i agree with you in that it'll take 2-3 years to get a complete overhaul which is very reasonable.

Very true. I'm relatively okay with the state of most of the line, with the exception of RT. It's a huge need; we will absolutely need to get a new RT. We will also need guards and centers, but I don't think Thomas or Kendell has played poorly for us at all. Rabach has had his "moments" but he's serviceable.

Though it's clear Samuels hasn't had his best year, he also has had a leg injury for most of the year. I'm surprised he gutted it out as long as he did (and it took an unrelated injury to shelve him). I hope he comes back strong...

[Countertrey]

Thats the x-factor that Colt showed in the preseason.

Clint Longley showed that kind of "x-factor" as well... remember him?

(Hint: ONE Thanksgiving game... [the horror])


Colt may be the real deal. It's just as likely that he is smoke and mirrors.