Official QB switch? Thread

[Bob 0119]

Trust me, I also think that there is potential in JC. I think that he can become a good QB, BUT BUT BUT not in this system and his progession (or lack thereof) has taken way longer than it should. BUT, I don't want a QB that can "survive"; I want one that thrives.

You are correct in that JC is too slow to work the WCO. And your comment on how JC has NEVER been comfortable in a system his whole career is telling. The only good season he had was with the TWO best RBs in all of college football that year. Maybe that provides us a clue into what he needs to win, perhaps??? Maybe there was a reason he was a 2-3rd rounder on most draft boards that year.

But, I tend to disagree with the analysis on the other QBs. For Favre, it IS about about changing offensive schemes. The fact that JC has never been comfortable only helps the arguement against JC. At least Favre can adjust. Secondly, while passing yards are important, JC's passing production came in the beginning of the year; his de-gression has been unbelievable. Also, the most important stat, points scored is vastly scuewed towards the others mentioned; not JC. The Jets are 5th in the league. Falcons are 11th. Ravens are 13th. We are 28th. The 0-15 LIONS have scored more points than we have this year. And just for kicks the Packers and Rodgers are 5th (tied with Jets).

On a side note, I don't think Flacco is that great anyway (although, having more TDs and an overall better season). Then again, our defense only gives up 22 more yards and 2 more points a game; so I don't think defense is a glaring difference between the two.

See, the thing that I think is most damaging about this offense is the total lack of a deep threat.

We either have no deep route reciever, or we simply aren't calling any plays that send a reciever behind the secondary.

Defenses can play us in a red-zone defense because we never throw the ball more than 20 yards. And if we do we never go back to it, whether it works or not.

This allows defenses to stack up the middle by keeping a saftey (or both) up close with the linebackers. Not necessarily 8-in-the-box, but at least 6.

We try to defeat that with the run, or the screen, but if you aren't going to challenge a team deep, then they have no reason to back off the pass rush.

Now whether that's because Campbell isn't finding the deep reciever, or whether the deep reciever isn't getting separation, or whether there even is a deep reciever is the real question.

All of these questions are a moot point if you don't have time to allow the play to develop. So you sacrifice two recievers for pass protectors, keep your HB in to help block and you're only sending out two recievers. If those two are Moss and Randle-el, it's going to be hard to find them when they could both have a corner and a saftey on them, and that still leaves 7 defenders to pass rush, or play the screen.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Jason's deep ball is terribly overrated. He's not accurate with it at all and I've rarely if EVER seen him hit Moss in stride. Hell, I hate MB04 and even he did it.

[John Manfreda]

For Favre, it IS about about changing offensive schemes. The fact that JC has never been comfortable only helps the arguement against JC. At least Favre can adjust.

My example with Favre is that he's been in a system long enough to gain confidence in himself. If I were in JC's shoes with a different O scheme almost EVERY YEAR, I don't think I would have much confidence, either. He's not had the chance to prove to himself, let alone anyone else, that he has what it takes at this level.

Favre, being in the same system for god knows how long, had that opportunity to gain self confidence. He went to a new system knowing that he can cut it at the pro level b/c he's done it. With JC never being in one system long enough to mater it, what do you think it does to his confidence?

I'm not knocking Favre, by far, I'm showing the apples and oranges comparison to arguably the most established QB in the league to JC.

Joe Gibbs said to play this position you have to have an unbreakable amount of self confidence to play the Qb position. What you just said backs up Joe Gibbs theory and confirms what I say. Because he doesn't have incredible amount of self confidence thats needed to play the Qb position, JC lacks the intangibles to play this position, and because of that JC needs to go. I didn't say that a Qb must have an uncanny amount of self confidence, Joe Gibbs did, so if you want to argue with that theory argue with Joe Gibbs, not me. Basing on what Joe Gibbs said, about what a Qb needs to succedd in the NFL, and what you said about JC not having confidence, shows that JC doesn't have it. JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

[VetSkinsFan]

JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

This does not mean that he cannot attain self confidence. I will agree that he hasn't succeded YET in the NFL, but it is NOT a fact that he will never succeed.

[PulpExposure]

For Favre, it IS about about changing offensive schemes. The fact that JC has never been comfortable only helps the arguement against JC. At least Favre can adjust.

My example with Favre is that he's been in a system long enough to gain confidence in himself. If I were in JC's shoes with a different O scheme almost EVERY YEAR, I don't think I would have much confidence, either. He's not had the chance to prove to himself, let alone anyone else, that he has what it takes at this level.

Favre, being in the same system for god knows how long, had that opportunity to gain self confidence. He went to a new system knowing that he can cut it at the pro level b/c he's done it. With JC never being in one system long enough to mater it, what do you think it does to his confidence?

I'm not knocking Favre, by far, I'm showing the apples and oranges comparison to arguably the most established QB in the league to JC.

Joe Gibbs said to play this position you have to have an unbreakable amount of self confidence to play the Qb position. What you just said backs up Joe Gibbs theory and confirms what I say. Because he doesn't have incredible amount of self confidence thats needed to play the Qb position, JC lacks the intangibles to play this position, and because of that JC needs to go. I didn't say that a Qb must have an uncanny amount of self confidence, Joe Gibbs did, so if you want to argue with that theory argue with Joe Gibbs, not me. Basing on what Joe Gibbs said, about what a Qb needs to succedd in the NFL, and what you said about JC not having confidence, shows that JC doesn't have it. JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

1. Please avoid using circular arguments.
2. Please provide a cite to said Joe Gibbs quote.
3. Please note that Joe Gibbs has also said that "Patrick [Ramsey] has a terrific future" with the Redskins.
4. Fact. Just because you seem to like posting that.

[John Manfreda]

JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

This does not mean that he cannot attain self confidence. I will agree that he hasn't succeded YET in the NFL, but it is NOT a fact that he will never succeed.

It also doesn't mean I am wrong.

[Bob 0119]

Jason's deep ball is terribly overrated. He's not accurate with it at all and I've rarely if EVER seen him hit Moss in stride. Hell, I hate MB04 and even he did it.

I'm not saying that it isn't, but what I was trying to say is that I believe most of our offensive line trouble comes from the fact that teams have no reason to be worried about anything more than 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.

Even if we just took a shot a few times, even if it didn't connect all the time, but the threat was there that it could, defenses would have to back off, and other areas of the offense could be more productive.

[VetSkinsFan]

JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

This does not mean that he cannot attain self confidence. I will agree that he hasn't succeded YET in the NFL, but it is NOT a fact that he will never succeed.

It also doesn't mean I am wrong.

Please highlight where I said you were wrong. The only FACT is that you're forecasting your opinion for FACT.

[John Manfreda]

For Favre, it IS about about changing offensive schemes. The fact that JC has never been comfortable only helps the arguement against JC. At least Favre can adjust.

My example with Favre is that he's been in a system long enough to gain confidence in himself. If I were in JC's shoes with a different O scheme almost EVERY YEAR, I don't think I would have much confidence, either. He's not had the chance to prove to himself, let alone anyone else, that he has what it takes at this level.

Favre, being in the same system for god knows how long, had that opportunity to gain self confidence. He went to a new system knowing that he can cut it at the pro level b/c he's done it. With JC never being in one system long enough to mater it, what do you think it does to his confidence?

I'm not knocking Favre, by far, I'm showing the apples and oranges comparison to arguably the most established QB in the league to JC.

Joe Gibbs said to play this position you have to have an unbreakable amount of self confidence to play the Qb position. What you just said backs up Joe Gibbs theory and confirms what I say. Because he doesn't have incredible amount of self confidence thats needed to play the Qb position, JC lacks the intangibles to play this position, and because of that JC needs to go. I didn't say that a Qb must have an uncanny amount of self confidence, Joe Gibbs did, so if you want to argue with that theory argue with Joe Gibbs, not me. Basing on what Joe Gibbs said, about what a Qb needs to succedd in the NFL, and what you said about JC not having confidence, shows that JC doesn't have it. JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

1. Please avoid using circular arguments.
2. Please provide a cite to said Joe Gibbs quote.
3. Please note that Joe Gibbs has also said that "Patrick [Ramsey] has a terrific future" with the Redskins.
4. Fact. Just because you seem to like posting that.

I am not wasting my time looking all the way back when I remember it off the top of my head. Stupid post. He did say that, I remember him saying it, you can go look it up. I know for a fact he did. You may have no life, this isn't a personal attack, I am just assuming if you have all that time to spend hours on end to look that up, you must not have a life. But I do, I don't have time to look all the way back to something that was said four years ago when JC was drafted, and they asked will this affect Ramsey's development. That is what Gibbs responded with.

[PulpExposure]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

[John Manfreda]

JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

This does not mean that he cannot attain self confidence. I will agree that he hasn't succeded YET in the NFL, but it is NOT a fact that he will never succeed.

It also doesn't mean I am wrong.

Please highlight where I said you were wrong. The only FACT is that you're forecasting your opinion for FACT.

Talking about ignoring facts, Brett Favre had to learn a brand new system his second year in the NFL. He was not drafted by Green Bay and his rookie year was not with the Packers. He was with Atlanta, so Brett did overcome having to learn a new offense, which is so hard, I don't know how he did it So its not comparing apples and oranges. Ignore the facts, I can't believe you said Brett spent the whole time with the Packers before he went to New York. Everyone knows he was drafted by Atlanta. Even if you didn't say it, you dam well implied it, which is just like saying it.

[John Manfreda]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

WE still could have drafted someone else. We didn't have to use it on Brandon Marshall.

[PulpExposure]

But I do, I don't have time to look all the way back to something that was said four years ago when JC was drafted, and they asked will this affect Ramsey's development. That is what Gibbs responded with.

Not at all. If you read the article I linked, Gibbs said this before the draft occurred.

Coach Joe Gibbs arrived here Friday for his first scouting combine since retiring in 1993 to help the Washington Redskins evaluate roughly 330 prospects for the April draft.

However, there is one position that Gibbs doesn't plan to focus on: quarterback.

Gibbs addressed the media Saturday and spoke about a range of issues, including the start of his first minicamp, the club's approach to the draft and the future of cornerback Champ Bailey. Gibbs spent much of his session insisting that the Redskins will not trade quarterback Patrick Ramsey regardless of any request through his agent.

"Patrick has a terrific future" with the Redskins, Gibbs said.

And that's not a Manfreda-fact, it's actually a fact.

As for the rest of your pathetic post not being a personal attack...well, I'll let the others decide if that's true. I'll clue you into this magical thing called "google," and if you spell things correctly, you actually can pull information from the intertubes!

[markshark84]

For Favre, it IS about about changing offensive schemes. The fact that JC has never been comfortable only helps the arguement against JC. At least Favre can adjust.

My example with Favre is that he's been in a system long enough to gain confidence in himself. If I were in JC's shoes with a different O scheme almost EVERY YEAR, I don't think I would have much confidence, either. He's not had the chance to prove to himself, let alone anyone else, that he has what it takes at this level.

Favre, being in the same system for god knows how long, had that opportunity to gain self confidence. He went to a new system knowing that he can cut it at the pro level b/c he's done it. With JC never being in one system long enough to mater it, what do you think it does to his confidence?

I'm not knocking Favre, by far, I'm showing the apples and oranges comparison to arguably the most established QB in the league to JC.

Joe Gibbs said to play this position you have to have an unbreakable amount of self confidence to play the Qb position. What you just said backs up Joe Gibbs theory and confirms what I say. Because he doesn't have incredible amount of self confidence thats needed to play the Qb position, JC lacks the intangibles to play this position, and because of that JC needs to go. I didn't say that a Qb must have an uncanny amount of self confidence, Joe Gibbs did, so if you want to argue with that theory argue with Joe Gibbs, not me. Basing on what Joe Gibbs said, about what a Qb needs to succedd in the NFL, and what you said about JC not having confidence, shows that JC doesn't have it. JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

1. Please avoid using circular arguments.
2. Please provide a cite to said Joe Gibbs quote.
3. Please note that Joe Gibbs has also said that "Patrick [Ramsey] has a terrific future" with the Redskins.
4. Fact. Just because you seem to like posting that.

Come on, pulp. What is this, a legal opinion letter? Christ!

Also, doesn't this help my initial arguement that coaches and players are going to say anything to the press in an attempt to be PC? Gibbs, at that time, knew that Ramsey had no future with the club but said it anyway. I guess players and coaches are NOT as candid as people think they are. What a shocker!!!!

[John Manfreda]

But I do, I don't have time to look all the way back to something that was said four years ago when JC was drafted, and they asked will this affect Ramsey's development. That is what Gibbs responded with.

Not at all. If you read the article I linked, Gibbs said this before the draft occurred.

Coach Joe Gibbs arrived here Friday for his first scouting combine since retiring in 1993 to help the Washington Redskins evaluate roughly 330 prospects for the April draft.

However, there is one position that Gibbs doesn't plan to focus on: quarterback.

Gibbs addressed the media Saturday and spoke about a range of issues, including the start of his first minicamp, the club's approach to the draft and the future of cornerback Champ Bailey. Gibbs spent much of his session insisting that the Redskins will not trade quarterback Patrick Ramsey regardless of any request through his agent.

"Patrick has a terrific future" with the Redskins, Gibbs said.

And that's not a Manfreda-fact, it's actually a fact.

As for the rest of your pathetic post not being a personal attack...well, I'll let the others decide if that's true. I'll clue you into this magical thing called "google," and if you spell things correctly, you actually can pull information from the intertubes!

Yeah but when entering a name like Joe Gibbs thousands of things will come out. How stupid can you be, its not one thing will come out. He did say a Qb has to have a huge amount of confidence to play that position. That is a fact. IF JC doesn't have confidence in a leadership position, means we should quit wasting our time with him. Seriously what has he done to maintain a starting job as Qb. Seriously what has he done on the field. The team played better without him last year (fact) 4-0 without him, 5-7 with him. Those numbers do not lie. This year he has had 4 good games and thats it, since those games he has been getting worse. Against Philly he got ample time and performed horribly. You sticking up for him is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Heath Shuler just needs more time, he isn't bad, Desmond Howard needs more time, Jason Campbell needs more time, you see a pattern.

[markshark84]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

Pulp, there were a couple good players selected after the 4th round in that year. Come on now. That is a horrible arguement or point or whatever you were trying to say.

[John Manfreda]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

wow the whole 06 thing is gone how do we know its true now. Wikepedia is just an opinion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell

[John Manfreda]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell
now his career stats are gone. Wow that website must have been giving out great information, why did they take it away. I guess it wasn't reliable.

[Countertrey]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell
now his career stats are gone. Wow that website must have been giving out great information, why did they take it away. I guess it wasn't reliable.

Yet, you see fit to use it...

[VetSkinsFan]

JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

This does not mean that he cannot attain self confidence. I will agree that he hasn't succeded YET in the NFL, but it is NOT a fact that he will never succeed.

It also doesn't mean I am wrong.

Please highlight where I said you were wrong. The only FACT is that you're forecasting your opinion for FACT.

Talking about ignoring facts, Brett Favre had to learn a brand new system his second year in the NFL. He was not drafted by Green Bay and his rookie year was not with the Packers. He was with Atlanta, so Brett did overcome having to learn a new offense, which is so hard, I don't know how he did it So its not comparing apples and oranges. Ignore the facts, I can't believe you said Brett spent the whole time with the Packers before he went to New York. Everyone knows he was drafted by Atlanta. Even if you didn't say it, you dam well implied it, which is just like saying it.

You are correct in saying that Favre had to lern the Green Bay sistem after one year of ATL. But the trivial anecdote you left out was that after that 1 year of ATL, he had FIFTEEN in Green Bay before the Favre/Jets example given. So technically your write. It wasent his entire career, it was his entire STARTING career before this seeson. God, I must be the wrost stafer on the bored.

[John Manfreda]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell
now his career stats are gone. Wow that website must have been giving out great information, why did they take it away. I guess it wasn't reliable.

Yet, you see fit to use it...

I never use it, it was the staff that used it. Get your facts straight.

[VetSkinsFan]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell
now his career stats are gone. Wow that website must have been giving out great information, why did they take it away. I guess it wasn't reliable.

Yet, you see fit to use it...

I never use it, it was the staff that used it. Get your facts straight.

The staf uzed teh trade informashion. You used the Jason Cambpell career stats informashion. Two different pages.

[John Manfreda]

JC needs to go, because he does not have the confidence to be a Qb at the NFL level. He hasn't succeded yet in the NFL, and he never will. Fact

This does not mean that he cannot attain self confidence. I will agree that he hasn't succeded YET in the NFL, but it is NOT a fact that he will never succeed.

It also doesn't mean I am wrong.

Please highlight where I said you were wrong. The only FACT is that you're forecasting your opinion for FACT.

Talking about ignoring facts, Brett Favre had to learn a brand new system his second year in the NFL. He was not drafted by Green Bay and his rookie year was not with the Packers. He was with Atlanta, so Brett did overcome having to learn a new offense, which is so hard, I don't know how he did it So its not comparing apples and oranges. Ignore the facts, I can't believe you said Brett spent the whole time with the Packers before he went to New York. Everyone knows he was drafted by Atlanta. Even if you didn't say it, you dam well implied it, which is just like saying it.

You are correct in saying that Favre had to lern the Green Bay sistem after one year of ATL. But the trivial anecdote you left out was that after that 1 year of ATL, he had FIFTEEN in Green Bay before the Favre/Jets example given. So technically your write. It wasent his entire career, it was his entire STARTING career before this seeson. God, I must be the wrost stafer on the bored.

Favre was productive from the get go, on the NFL network his first game is considered one of the greats against the Bengals. It shows one can attain success while still learning a brand new offense, and learning a new system in Green Bay, in his second year did not affect or hinder his play one bit. This JC is learning a new offense is a bunch of BS. He sucks, he has had his chances and FAILED, we need to bring in someone else now. Brett Favre showed it. So did a lot of other Qb's, this whole learning a new offense is a myth, learning a new offense does not affect or hinder a Qb whats so ever.

[markshark84]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell
now his career stats are gone. Wow that website must have been giving out great information, why did they take it away. I guess it wasn't reliable.

Yet, you see fit to use it...

I never use it, it was the staff that used it. Get your facts straight.

The staf uzed teh trade informashion. You used the Jason Cambpell career stats informashion. Two different pages.

Is that post PM worthy? Maybe you should PM yourself a repremand.

God I love these emoticons.......

[John Manfreda]

Correction: if I'm not mistaken, didn't we spend 2 1st round picks on Campbell?

No. In 2005, we traded our 2006 1st, 2005's 3rd, and 2006's 4th to move up to get Campbell.

FYI that 2006 4th turned out to be Brandon Marshall. Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell
now his career stats are gone. Wow that website must have been giving out great information, why did they take it away. I guess it wasn't reliable.

Yet, you see fit to use it...

I never use it, it was the staff that used it. Get your facts straight.

The staf uzed teh trade informashion. You used the Jason Cambpell career stats informashion. Two different pages.

same website and that shows that the website they used isn't reliable so I do not believe them one bit. Use reliable cites.