Official QB switch? Thread

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:34 am

welch wrote:I saw an OL with holes, and no WR's.

Fix the OL. If the receivers can't get open and can't hold the ball, at least we can smash people.

Campbell looks OK. He's not Sonny, and not Joe T, but maybe he's a a nimble Rypien. What if Rypien had had no Posse and no Hogs?

No o-line, no receivers, they said the same thing last year, but Collins comes in and we go 4-0. WE fix the qb than the o-line and wr problems will vastly deter. These problems are a reflection of JC uncanny ability to make players around him look wrose than they really are. ARE and Hines Ward won the superbowl together. That wr core together is no better than Moss plus ARE, so guess what the wr's are not the problem.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:39 am

This thread is ridiculous. Give the guy some time. Seriously! He just got this offense....again and you are ready to hang him. Some of our fans are just plain ignorant and don't know enough about the game but think they do. This is not directed at one person but just overall.

Most on here said that they would be happy with 8-8 at the end of the season. Just b/c we won a few games in the beginning of the season and then hit the wall, which most teams do, now they want to blow everything up.

Just plain dumb.

kingfish51 · Post by **kingfish51** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:56 am

JC is what he is, a below average QB. His release is way too long and that's not good in a WCO.
He was drafted by Joe Gibbs, for a Joe Gibbs style offense, where he can take a 5 -7 step drop and take forever to release the ball, but then again, he was having problems in that offense too.
This is as good as he gets and if Zorn or who ever the next HC may be doesn't hold an open competition or just start Colt, then we are in for yet another long season with a mediocre (at best) QB, managing a low scoring offense and reading or listening to the apologists coming up with yet more sorry excuses for JC's pathetic play.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:09 am

frankcal20 wrote:This thread is ridiculous. Give the guy some time. Seriously! He just got this offense....again and you are ready to hang him. Some of our fans are just plain ignorant and don't know enough about the game but think they do. This is not directed at one person but just overall.

Most on here said that they would be happy with 8-8 at the end of the season. Just b/c we won a few games in the beginning of the season and then hit the wall, which most teams do, now they want to blow everything up.

Just plain dumb.

Absolutely. Give the guy a break.....after all this is only his 4th season in the league.....heck, we should be happy that he finds his locker.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:16 am

frankcal20 wrote:This thread is ridiculous. Give the guy some time. Seriously! He just got this offense....again and you are ready to hang him. Some of our fans are just plain ignorant and don't know enough about the game but think they do. This is not directed at one person but just overall.

Most on here said that they would be happy with 8-8 at the end of the season. Just b/c we won a few games in the beginning of the season and then hit the wall, which most teams do, now they want to blow everything up.

Just plain dumb.

No, they want to blow the QB up. They are perfectly fine with WR's that catch one out of every two balls that are in their hands and can no longer get open deep. They also don't care that the pass blocking makes FEMA look like a strong line of defense.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:32 am

frankcal20 wrote:This thread is ridiculous. Give the guy some time. Seriously! He just got this offense....again and you are ready to hang him. Some of our fans are just plain ignorant and don't know enough about the game but think they do. This is not directed at one person but just overall.

Most on here said that they would be happy with 8-8 at the end of the season. Just b/c we won a few games in the beginning of the season and then hit the wall, which most teams do, now they want to blow everything up.

Just plain dumb.

that is a myth he ran the WCO his senior year at Auburn this isn't entirely brand new to him.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:33 am

brad7686 wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:This thread is ridiculous. Give the guy some time. Seriously! He just got this offense....again and you are ready to hang him. Some of our fans are just plain ignorant and don't know enough about the game but think they do. This is not directed at one person but just overall.

Most on here said that they would be happy with 8-8 at the end of the season. Just b/c we won a few games in the beginning of the season and then hit the wall, which most teams do, now they want to blow everything up.

Just plain dumb.

No, they want to blow the QB up. They are perfectly fine with WR's that catch one out of every two balls that are in their hands and can no longer get open deep. They also don't care that the pass blocking makes FEMA look like a strong line of defense.

obviously you didn't read my post
No o-line, no receivers, they said the same thing last year, but Collins comes in and we go 4-0. WE fix the qb than the o-line and wr problems will vastly deter. These problems are a reflection of JC uncanny ability to make players around him look wrose than they really are. ARE and Hines Ward won the superbowl together. That wr core together is no better than Moss plus ARE, so guess what the wr's are not the problem.
LAST YEAR SHOWED WHILE YOU MAY NOT THINK COLLINS IS THE SOLUTION, THAT CAMPBELL WAS CLEARLY THE PROBLEM AND HE NEEDS TO GO.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:35 am

kingfish51 wrote:JC is what he is, a below average QB. His release is way too long and that's not good in a WCO.
He was drafted by Joe Gibbs, for a Joe Gibbs style offense, where he can take a 5 -7 step drop and take forever to release the ball, but then again, he was having problems in that offense too.
This is as good as he gets and if Zorn or who ever the next HC may be doesn't hold an open competition or just start Colt, then we are in for yet another long season with a mediocre (at best) QB, managing a low scoring offense and reading or listening to the apologists coming up with yet more sorry excuses for JC's pathetic play.

wonderful post

SoulDOut · Post by **SoulDOut** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:38 am

guess i'm one of those S.A.B.JC@QB people...
need more entertainment within the game, 10pts and under is just unsatisfying for me personally(especially when you see Miami score oogles of points w/their youth movement....)
i'm not saying permanently(yet), but just so we can see if TC can play(and of course to see what Colt can do for this team w/1st stringers this time). personally i think if the QB threw faster, there would be 1) less yds for loss 2)O-Line might not look as bad 3)maybe we can score more than 10pts on average? 4)get more 1st downs? instead of 3yd conversion when we NEED 7yds....etc.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:54 am

I think we're gonna see next season when Jason Campbell finally has a second consecutive season in the same system that he'll be a very good player.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:56 am

John Manfreda wrote:
kingfish51 wrote:JC is what he is, a below average QB. His release is way too long and that's not good in a WCO.
He was drafted by Joe Gibbs, for a Joe Gibbs style offense, where he can take a 5 -7 step drop and take forever to release the ball, but then again, he was having problems in that offense too.
This is as good as he gets and if Zorn or who ever the next HC may be doesn't hold an open competition or just start Colt, then we are in for yet another long season with a mediocre (at best) QB, managing a low scoring offense and reading or listening to the apologists coming up with yet more sorry excuses for JC's pathetic play.

wonderful post

If that is the case, then either Zorn has to modify the offense around him or cut him loose. This is just one of many decisions that have to be made this off-season.

I personally think that if JC is the starter next season he has to take matters into his own hands if he continues to have no blocking. I'd rather see him go out trying to do his own thing if his job is indeed on the line.

There are many things that have made his QB tenure a mediocre at best. Changing offenses and coaches; no other real threat to go with Moss at WR; no blocking; his penchant for holding the ball a little too long; coaches trying to make him into a six-foot one West Coast QB instead of a pocket passer taking advantage of his height. Has JC's demeanor hurt him? Yes. If he was a little more fiery, I think that he would be given a little more rope by us fans. If he was seen yelling at his lineman for not blocking and receivers for dropping passes, then many fans would not be calling for his head.

It's hard to say because he's not in a situation where he's had plenty of protection and was just missing badly.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:57 am

Isn't it great that this is now almost to 40 pages :lol:

We need a lot of things this offseason and the most pressing in my opinion are the offensive and defensive line - but we also need a new QB, and both kickers can go - 'Placekicker' put in a wonderful punting performance today but that is not making up for his performance here and Suisham is a decent kicker but we can and will have a better placekicker next season.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:07 am

frankcal20 wrote:This thread is ridiculous. Give the guy some time. Seriously!

4 years is enough for me. What do want to do, give him 8 years before we make a decision. He has got to put on the big boy pants sometime. :roll:

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:11 am

Skinsfan55 wrote:I think we're gonna see next season when Jason Campbell finally has a second consecutive season in the same system that he'll be a very good player.

Didn't we say that in Gibbs' second season? How'd that turn out for us? JC gets hurt (best thing that could have happened), we go 4-0 and make the playoffs. It will be the same old 10 points per game from JC. He is just too slow with the ball.

Besides, this will be his third. He ran the WCO out of Auburn.

funbunch65 · Post by **funbunch65** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:14 am

I may be crazy but I see alot of of talent out there offensively. Except for Jason Campbell. This guy just always seems like he doesn't know whats going on. His throws are seldomly accurate. He must not understand that if teams are sending a blitz to recognize where it is coming from and consequently find the open guy.

There is no reason to think this guy is going to be any good. He has not done anything in the past to convince me otherwise. I'm really befuddled how anybody could support him. I mean what has he done good? I have tried to say good thing in the past but that was a job in itself. We have got to move on.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:15 am

John Manfreda wrote:
markshark84 wrote:
welch wrote:I saw an OL with holes, and no WR's.

Fix the OL. If the receivers can't get open and can't hold the ball, at least we can smash people.

Campbell looks OK. He's not Sonny, and not Joe T, but maybe he's a nimble Rypien. What if Rypien had had no Posse and no Hogs?

Man, I'll tell you that the staff here at THN sure LOVES JC. All in all, I am not looking for an "OK" QB. I want a solid one that can orchestrate an offense that can produce more than 10 points per game.

JC is no Rypien, though.

calling JC an okay Qb is overstatement, he is horrible. He is the wrost Qb we have had since Heath Shuler.

Lol. Really? Worse than Rodney Peete when he was here? Worse than Todd Husak? Worse than Kent Graham, Tony Banks, and Jeff George? Worse than Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffle, and Gibran Hamden? Worse than Tim Hasselbeck and Rob Johnson?

You can say he's not the answer, and not a good QB. And that's your opinion.

But to say "He is the wrost Qb we have had since Heath Shuler" when you look at who has played QB for us since then, is possibly the most idiotic thing I've read on these boards. The idiocy of that statement is just hilariously compounded with your misspelling of "worst."

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:16 am

I don't think Jason has it.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:26 am

I'll start with this... I'd be quite happy with an open QB competition this offseason between JC and Colt. I don't think we need to go and draft/sign one. Zorn knows QB's, therefore I'll trust his decision. If JC wins it, fine. If Colt earns the nod, I'll be fine with that too.

You never know, maybe Zorn already likes Colt, his pick, but can't bench JC due to team politics and can't start Colt because he's a rookie and hasn't grasped the offense yet.

I personally have three criticisms of JC.

1. He doesn't show the emotion I'd like to see in a team leader. He justs seems too even-keeled and doesn't seem to inspire those players around him. I'd like to see him get more vocal and try to motivate players on the sidelines during games. Get up in some ones face, pace the sidelines encouraging your teammates.

2. He throws at Santana way too much. Moss could be tripled covered and JC is still trying to get the ball to him. Well, if Moss is doubled and tripled, then someone else has single coverage, so give that guy a look.

3. JC just seems to be too scared to throw in tight coverage to give his receiver a chance. This causes him to hold the ball too long. He HAS to give the receiver a chance from time to time, and not just Moss. I think this is due in part to Zorn wanting perfection from him. He just doesn't want to make a mistake. Well, sometimes in this league, you have to take chances. It may result in more Int's, but is will also result in more big plays.

That said, I do not think, for a minute, that the offenses struggles are solely on JC. He has the skills and abilities, and a lack of pass protection is probably a bigger problem. But I'm definitely not opposed to an open competition during the offseason and camp. I'd like to see JC in the offense for a 2nd year, remember, it took Hasselback several years to grasp this offense. But in the end, no matter what happens, I trust that Zorn knows which player give us the best chance to win.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:29 am

Jason may be scared to throw into tight coverage because he doesn't have the accuracy to do it...

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:41 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Jason may be scared to throw into tight coverage because he doesn't have the accuracy to do it...

Most long passes seem to float endlessly to a general region as if it was a "free for all" as opposed to a pass aimed at a particular spot.

Jason is a nice and decent guy and all. But he is not a LEADER and a top NFL QB. And he has had plenty of opportunities to show both.

HAVING SAID all of the above, the ONE POSITION that this team URGENTLY needs to upgrade is that of General Manager. The rest is easier. :wink:

I am VERY encouraged at the rumours floating around about a new GM coming here. They may not be true BUT at least we have the word on the street.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:43 am

SkinsFreak wrote:I'll start with this... I'd be quite happy with an open QB competition this offseason between JC and Colt. I don't think we need to go and draft/sign one. Zorn knows QB's, therefore I'll trust his decision. If JC wins it, fine. If Colt earns the nod, I'll be fine with that too.

You never know, maybe Zorn already likes Colt, his pick, but can't bench JC due to team politics and can't start Colt because he's a rookie and hasn't grasped the offense yet.

Agree with all above.

2. He throws at Santana way too much. Moss could be tripled covered and JC is still trying to get the ball to him. Well, if Moss is doubled and tripled, then someone else has single coverage, so give that guy a look.

Maybe no one else is open...and his option is to throw it at the best guy...or throw it away. I swear, I watch other football games and I see receivers running open, but either (1) we have the same and Jason doesn't see them; or (2) no one is open. It's ridiculous.

3. JC just seems to be too scared to throw in tight coverage to give his receiver a chance. This causes him to hold the ball too long. He HAS to give the receiver a chance from time to time, and not just Moss. I think this is due in part to Zorn wanting perfection from him. He just doesn't want to make a mistake. Well, sometimes in this league, you have to take chances. It may result in more Int's, but is will also result in more big plays.

He threw it at Moss in the end zone yesterday...and almost got it picked. Yay for forcing it!

That said, I do not think, for a minute, that the offenses struggles are solely on JC. He has the skills and abilities, and a lack of pass protection is probably a bigger problem. But I'm definitely not opposed to an open competition during the offseason and camp. I'd like to see JC in the offense for a 2nd year, remember, it took Hasselback several years to grasp this offense. But in the end, no matter what happens, I trust that Zorn knows which player give us the best chance to win.

Again, agreed. I blame the QB, o-line, and receivers equally (with additional blame on the playcalling). We just don't have receivers worth a damn; ARE dropping that sure fire first pass when it's 3rd and 4 is a pretty good snapshot of our offense. Well, that and Campbell skying a 2 yard hook pass to Moss when we needed 10 yards to convert (watching Moss jump up trying to get it...and then seeing the CB coming in for the kill shot...made me really nervous. Thankfully, the pass was uncatchable).

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:55 am

PulpExposure wrote:Maybe no one else is open...and his option is to throw it at the best guy...or throw it away. I swear, I watch other football games and I see receivers running open, but either (1) we have the same and Jason doesn't see them; or (2) no one is open. It's ridiculous.

We said that last year before Todd took over. Everyone didn't magically step up cus Todd was magical fake baby Jesus. The team isn't as bad as it looks. The line isn't as bad as it looks. The WR's are that bad... Granted, they all need a lot of work. The main issue is Jason. He's slow as molasses and very deliberate.

Will he improve? That's the big question coming into his contract year. I don't think he will. There are things about his mechanics that aren't going to go away. Those things cause him to be mediocre.

Again, I agree that we have a myraid of problems but last season PROVED that the biggest problem is at QB for us. This year, offensive line may have jumped ahead of the QB issue. IMO both need to be investigate in the off-season.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:01 pm

PulpExposure wrote:He threw it at Moss in the end zone yesterday...and almost got it picked. Yay for forcing it!

I didn't necessarily mean he has to force it. Moss was tripled on that play, JC should have never thrown it there. With Moss tripled, there was someone else that had single coverage and should have gotten a look, even with tight coverage. But as you said, maybe JC just doesn't see him, I don't know.

What I meant was, for example, on a crossing route, JC seems to want the WR to have three or four steps on a defender before he'll throw it there, when with one step, an accurate pass and the balls to throw it, the pass should result in a completion. I've seen JC make many accurate passes, so I don't think it has to do with accuracy. He just lacks the stones to throw it right now.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:04 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:He threw it at Moss in the end zone yesterday...and almost got it picked. Yay for forcing it!

I didn't necessarily mean he has to force it. Moss was tripled on that play, JC should have never thrown it there. With Moss tripled, there was someone else that had single coverage and should have gotten a look, even with tight coverage. But as you said, maybe JC just doesn't see him, I don't know.

Watch the play again, it was classic Jason...

1. He was staring Moss down.
2. He was about to throw and brought it back down (this is when Moss was open and Jason should have thrown it)
3. Jason finally decides to throw, rifles the pass in but the window was closed.

He just second guesses himself wayyyyyyyy too much and that long delivery is just a strobe light to defenders.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:06 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:He threw it at Moss in the end zone yesterday...and almost got it picked. Yay for forcing it!

I didn't necessarily mean he has to force it. Moss was tripled on that play, JC should have never thrown it there. With Moss tripled, there was someone else that had single coverage and should have gotten a look, even with tight coverage. But as you said, maybe JC just doesn't see him, I don't know.

Watch the play again, it was classic Jason...

1. He was staring Moss down.
2. He was about to throw and brought it back down (this is when Moss was open and Jason should have thrown it)
3. Jason finally decides to throw, rifles the pass in but the window was closed.

He just second guesses himself wayyyyyyyy too much and that long delivery is just a strobe light to defenders.

Agreed, and that's the point I'm making about JC lacking the stones to throw it when and where he should.