Bengals/Redskins Postmortem

[Gibbs4Life]

Also I hope I'm wrong but was Zorn trying to send a message by give the ball to Sellers on the goaline??

Yeah the message was our O-Line sucks

[markshark84]

I can't imagine what the scene will be next week at FedUp when Philly comes in. There very well may be as many Philly fans as Skins fans, and if the "Boy King" gives a crap, he should let Football Men (and not Vinny Crapotto) build this team and get the hell out of the way....

But Vinny has two rings!

"I do have a national championship ring and a Super Bowl ring, you know." (Cerrato was director of college scouting for the 49ers in 1994, the season San Francisco last won a Super Bowl. He was also recruiting coordinator under Lou Holtz in 1988 during Notre Dame's national championship season.)

..Maybe so, but he still blows when it comes to the job he is doing now.

Remember when everyone was praising him after the draft? While I do agree that the trade down with the #1 for two #2s was good, he did nothing with them. He can't pick players.

Word on the street from San Fran was he was the main reason for their decline. When he was placed in charge of college scouting, their drafts were horrible. His first round selections include: JJ Stokes, Jim Druckenmiller, RW McQuarters, Reggie McGrew.

In his 4 years, I only recognize one name in their entire drafts classes: Terrell Owens. That is it. Face it fellas -- Cerrato is bad. Really bad. I have said this since the day he came here. People can love or hate Schottenhiemer, but he did a smart thing in firing him.

Cerrato has made a career out of kissing up to Danny boy. Its gross.

[The Dancing Bear]

Aren't the Redskins who we thought they were an 8-8 team...I think many of you just elevated your expectations after the 6-2 start. If funy how 8-8 can look...had we started 2-6 and pull even at 7-7 I think it be a different story.

Also I hope I'm wrong but was Zorn trying to send a message by give the ball to Sellers on the goaline??

Not sure..but if this team had started 1-5, their record over the last 6 games, playing the way they have, alot of fans, myself included would feel pretty much the same way about this team.

As for Zorn trying to send a message, maybe he was, but a better message to send to the team is one of putting your best players in the game in positions to win the game. That is what it is all about..winning the game. Egos need not be a part of this.. (See: TO and the chaos he creates wherever he goes
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[El Mexican]

This team is about to implode.

I think we saw that this week with the Portis radio interview. Now 8-8 seems like a good deal.

What really bothers me is that 8-8 record will mask all the things that are wrong with this franchise for another couple of years. It's starts at the top, and management has done a terrible job in their area.

Time to accept that we suck.

I was blasted in another thread for simply suggesting the notion that this was a losable game because this year's team is a disjolted, undisciplined mess that is not coached by Gibbs. He made all the difference. Now it's time to face reality.

We are mediocre and schizophrenic.

[PulpExposure]

Is Jason Campbell really worth it? He looked very mediocre.

Look at it this way.

We gave Denver a 3rd round pick in 2005 and a 1st and a 4th in 2006.

These players turned out to be (in order):

CB- Karl Paymah (Career backup, decent nickelback great special teams player.)

*Worth noting is that Kirk Morison was still available and was taken two picks later

LB Manny Lawson (Star linebacker.)

*This pick was traded by Denver to San Fransisco

WR Brandon Marshall (Star WR, one of the best young players in the game even if he is a bit of a headcase.)

Jason Campbell cost us three picks that amounted to two pro bowl type players and a special teams ace...

Has he been a bit worth it? I don't think so. He's been a very average QB with obvious flaws that may keep him from ever becoming above average.

The kind of trade that brought us Jason Campbell is the reason why we are where we are. Mired in mediocrity since the days of Gibbs' first tenure.

Lawson is considered a bust in San Fran, FYI.

[Skinsfan55]

Word on the street?

What a load of nonsense.

As director of College Scouting he helped draft Ted Washington, Ricky Watters, Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young... he was later promoted after the 49ers won a superbowl.

Then he was the director of player personnel and while it's true that he was in charge of overseeing the whole operation his responsibilities shifted towards scouting pro talent. The guys you mentioned all came after Vinny was promoted.

Don't just make things up because you dislike Vinny. It's true that he an Snyder have a close relationship, but to say that relationship is the only reason Vinny is employed is ridiculous.

If Vinny was fired today he'd have a job by Monday.

[PulpExposure]

In his 4 years, I only recognize one name in their entire drafts classes: Terrell Owens. That is it. Face it fellas -- Cerrato is bad. Really bad. I have said this since the day he came here. People can love or hate Schottenhiemer, but he did a smart thing in firing him.

Cerrato has made a career out of kissing up to Danny boy. Its gross.

You don't know any of the following?

What they forget is that he was behind the drafts of defensive linemen Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young; that he found Pro Bowl linebacker Lee Woodall in the sixth round; pushed for Pro Bowl quarterback Elvis Grbac in the eighth and uncovered Pro Bowl cornerback R.W. McQuarters.

Then there's that unknown receiver out of Tennessee-Chattanooga he found in the third round of the 1996 draft. Would Terrell Owens please step forward?

[redskins14ru]

I say we start with what team to trade the skins for and all submit prayer request or atleast hire a kicker and maybe send some emails of kickers and offenses to mr. zorn so he atleast could recognize them.

[Sir_Monk]

Word on the street?

What a load of nonsense.

As director of College Scouting he helped draft Ted Washington, Ricky Watters, Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young... he was later promoted after the 49ers won a superbowl.

Then he was the director of player personnel and while it's true that he was in charge of overseeing the whole operation his responsibilities shifted towards scouting pro talent. The guys you mentioned all came after Vinny was promoted.

Don't just make things up because you dislike Vinny. It's true that he an Snyder have a close relationship, but to say that relationship is the only reason Vinny is employed is ridiculous.

If Vinny was fired today he'd have a job by Monday.

with who? ESPN? that's were he was when Danny plucked him back into service.

[PulpExposure]

This team has been cursed ever since it left the Cooke family. I still don't understand why John didn't just leave this team to his son.

Sigh. First, you mean you don't understand why JACK didn't just leave this team to his son, John...

And John (Jack's son) effectively ran the team from 1994 or so to 1998. You may remember those as the Turner years. Our teams were AWFUL.

[The Dancing Bear]

This team has been cursed ever since it left the Cooke family. I still don't understand why John didn't just leave this team to his son.

Sigh. First, you mean you don't understand why JACK didn't just leave this team to his son, John...

And John (Jack's son) effectively ran the team from 1994 or so to 1998. You may remember those as the Turner years. Our teams were AWFUL.

..Also, during that time, were not the 'Skins, and for that matter John Cooke handcuffed by the whole Estate process, which is 1 reason why Washington could not re-sign Trent Green? I recall that John Cooke wanted to keep the team, but could not raise enough capital?

[Chris Luva Luva]

hey guys! we scored more than 10 points this week.

[PulpExposure]

This team has been cursed ever since it left the Cooke family. I still don't understand why John didn't just leave this team to his son.

Sigh. First, you mean you don't understand why JACK didn't just leave this team to his son, John...

And John (Jack's son) effectively ran the team from 1994 or so to 1998. You may remember those as the Turner years. Our teams were AWFUL.

..Also, during that time, were not the 'Skins, and for that matter John Cooke handcuffed by the whole Estate process, which is 1 reason why Washington could not re-sign Trent Green? I recall that John Cooke wanted to keep the team, but could not raise enough capital?

The estate issue didn't come up until 1997, when Jack died. Before then, that's not an excuse.

[DEHog]

We are mediocre and schizophrenic.

I kill for mediocre and schizophrenic right now!

[SkinFan63]

hey guys! we scored more than 10 points this week.

Rock Cartwright should be returning ALL kicks!
ARE needs to be traded!

[Skinsfan55]

Isn't ARE sitting on a lot of bonus money? What kind of cap hit will we take for trading/cutting him?

We've seen enough of ARE he's a slot man at best and an awful return man.

[DEHog]

Isn't ARE sitting on a lot of bonus money? What kind of cap hit will we take for trading/cutting him?

We've seen enough of ARE he's a slot man at best and an awful return man.

What ever where's your apology!

[aswas71788]

So many times I read about someone saying Gibbs was so great. He wasn't!! The offense suxed, there was always player issues (Ramsey, Pierce, Brunell, Clark, Arrington, Archuleta, Lloyd,etc.), there was infighting amongst the coaches, the offense suxed as bad as this one does. Gibbs let good players go, made trades giving up draft picks and brought in bad replacements. Don't make Gibbs 2nd tenure out to be someyhing it wasn't. I don't wish for Gibbs back. We would just have a continuation of bad coaching.

Having said that, he's the only HC to get us to the playoffs under Dannyboy.

That is true, I will concede that. He would not have lasted as long as he did if not for his past resume. His teams lost more game that it won. I still do not want Gibbs back.

[grampi]

"I recall that John Cooke wanted to keep the team, but could not raise enough capital?"

That's something else I don't understand. Why was John required to raise capital to keep the team? Jack owned the team when he was alive, so why didn't John therefore also own the team?

[CanesSkins26]

Aren't the Redskins who we thought they were an 8-8 team...I think many of you just elevated your expectations after the 6-2 start. If funy how 8-8 can look...had we started 2-6 and pull even at 7-7 I think it be a different story.

Also I hope I'm wrong but was Zorn trying to send a message by give the ball to Sellers on the goaline??

I was listening to the game on the radio during the goal lines series. Sonny was PISSED at Zorn's playcalling. He kept saying that they should give the CP.

[Thundersloth]

I can't imagine what the scene will be next week at FedUp when Philly comes in. There very well may be as many Philly fans as Skins fans, and if the "Boy King" gives a crap, he should let Football Men (and not Vinny Crapotto) build this team and get the hell out of the way....

But Vinny has two rings!

"I do have a national championship ring and a Super Bowl ring, you know." (Cerrato was director of college scouting for the 49ers in 1994, the season San Francisco last won a Super Bowl. He was also recruiting coordinator under Lou Holtz in 1988 during Notre Dame's national championship season.)

Even a broken watch is right twice a day. He was in the right place at the right time not because of his football knowledge. He can have as many color coded notebooks as he wants doesn't mean he's a good evaluator of talent. Vinny didn't think he was ever going to work in the NFL again when Marty fired him and NO other NFL team went after him, that tells me he really isn't that good. But Dannyboy needed him to be his yes man.

[Thundersloth]

Aren't the Redskins who we thought they were an 8-8 team...I think many of you just elevated your expectations after the 6-2 start. If funy how 8-8 can look...had we started 2-6 and pull even at 7-7 I think it be a different story.

Also I hope I'm wrong but was Zorn trying to send a message by give the ball to Sellers on the goaline??

Well, Dannyboy fired Marty after an 8-8 season after a 3-5 start he finished strong with a 5-3 record and had the team headed in the right direction.

I think giving the ball to Sellers was just way to score, get everybody focused on CP and sneak the ball to Sellers, I really wouldn't read much into that.

[vwoodzpusha]

Does it suck watching them lose games like this? Yes...But is their record a HELL of a lot better than I thought it would be? YES. I think the Redskins need to clean a little house. ARE isnt pulling what his contract pays him. Danny Smith might need to be let go and a kicker competition in the off season.

I think Jason Campbell IS the answer. This is his FIRST year in the WCO, and besides Moss and ey who are his targets? I think Devin Thomas will end up being a very good WR but it takes time.

It's hard to deal with these losses but to fire Zorn, Cerrato and cut Campbell doesnt make sense. That puts us right back where we were before Gibbs got here.

I would like to see Snyder not treating this team like his fantasy league and I think he sees the errors of his way as evident by last years non exsistent FA period.

[oneman56]

In my opinion there is absolutely no defense for Zorn not giving CP the ball 1 time when we are inside the 5 yard line. No excuse at all for that B.S. play calling. If you want to try and fool the defense once by giving Sellers the ball that's fine, but not giving CP the ball on 3 straight plays is ludicrous. The play calling is terrible week in and week out, I didn't see us attempt anything down the field all day today. Maybe i'm just overly frustrated after this loss but I'm running out of ways to defend Zorn already and the last thing I want is more turnover in our coaching ranks but....! Our team is regressing in all phases and lacks heart and fire, Zorn doesn't seem like a leader that players rally around and that is a problem. Everyone saying they were fooled by a 6-2 start is a just a joke of a comment to me. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL so you have to take advantage of your opportunities and we were in great position. Zorn failed to keep our momentum going plain and simple. This was a playoff team last year so why are so many people saying they were surprised by a 6-2 start and that 8-8 is what they expected? We'll be luck to win either of our last 2 games, 7-9 is more of a reality than 8-8 in my opinion. The collapse is on Zorn's shoulder and his alone! The team certainly has personnel issues but coaching should overcome some of those and our coaching hasn't concealed or overcome ANY of our personnel issues.

[Thundersloth]

So many times I read about someone saying Gibbs was so great. He wasn't!! The offense suxed, there was always player issues (Ramsey, Pierce, Brunell, Clark, Arrington, Archuleta, Lloyd,etc.), there was infighting amongst the coaches, the offense suxed as bad as this one does. Gibbs let good players go, made trades giving up draft picks and brought in bad replacements. Don't make Gibbs 2nd tenure out to be someyhing it wasn't. I don't wish for Gibbs back. We would just have a continuation of bad coaching.

Having said that, he's the only HC to get us to the playoffs under Dannyboy.

That is true, I will concede that. He would not have lasted as long as he did if not for his past resume. His teams lost more game that it won. I still do not want Gibbs back.

No coach hired by the current administration is over .500

Schottenheimer 8-8

Spurrier 12-20

Gibbs 31-34

Zorn ??? has a shot at .500