DEHog wrote:As I said I'm simply stating a fact we were within a TD with 12 min to play and our D couldn't get a stop...true or false??
100% true, they couldn't stop it and they should have. But they couldn't and the reasons for why they couldn't I'm symapthetic for.
And if they had stopped them, we would have tied them. Does the defense crack a bit and give up a FG on the next drive? We would have had to score again to win...
When in the last 4 games have we accomplished such a task? What have you seen that makes you think we would have done it? We wouldn't have and you know it. Now, you can say that maybe they coulda done it... I believe in unicorns and the lochness monster too.
Bob 0119 wrote:These aren't little girls that are going to be texting each other by the lockers with "OMG! I totally can't believe you said that!" They're grown men, and I'm sure have thicker skins than most of the people on this board. They'll figure it out.
As for Portis. He should be frustrated. He's having a stellar season, and his team's losing games. Aren't we all frustrated? He felt he was singled out for the team losing so he popped off.
Zorn seemed to understand that, and I'm sure they'll talk it out this week in practice.
Untwist your panties ladies, it's not the end of the world.
DEHog wrote:Everyone knew it was going to be that type of game, the player said so all week long, so you choose to give the defense a pass for not being able to play four quarters...that's your choice. I'm not blaming the D I'm just stating a fact we were within a TD with 12 min to play and couldn't get a stop....Wonder if the Steelers felt the same way in their game against the Boys
I don't care what the Steelers can do or can't do, we aren't them. This defense has been the same since 2004. Except for one year, if our offense could put up at least 21 points, we'd win a majority of our games.
And you're right that I give them a pass. Any game where we don't score more than one measily TD, they get a pass from me. I give them a pass cus they're freaking exhausted.
And we were within one TD, big deal. What do you think was going to happen? Do you honestly think we were going to march down the field and score? Do you? I mean, yeah anything is possible. I'm sure leprechauns and unicorns COULD be real....
Chris you can't assume anything in this game, the truth is you and I have no idea what would have happened...I simply stated a fact don't give me the defense is exhausted excuse (and that's what it is) an excuse!! You say the D has had to do this since 2004 so shouldn't they be conditioned...I bet you won't get that excuse from the players!! As I said I'm simply stating a fact we were within a TD with 12 min to play and our D couldn't get a stop...true or false??
DEHog,
You can't blame anything on the defense ever on this site. I have tried over the years and I have basically been told, "shut up stupid the offense only put up X number of points... the defense did their job"
Never mind this defense has a habit of playing up and down to its competition and has given up dozens of game winning/clinching drives. They have done a great job of keeping the games close and even on occasion have made the play to win the game.
But more often the play a great game and then falter when the team needs them the most. If you bring that up you are ridiculed and the Offense is blamed for not producing enough points to win even though the D could always just pitch a shut out or score them selves. When is the last time that has happened?
For the last 5 years I have come to realize two things as true when it comes to the Skins and there are games that are outside of this norm, but the fact is the Offense almost never scores enough and the defense never limits the other team to less than what the O is capable of producing.
We are not a championship team. Our offense isn't championship quality. Our Special Teams are among the worst in the NFL. And our defense doesn't have that championship swagger either. They will keep you in a game but when push comes to shove they won't make the play to win the game.
But hey, you can't talk about that here because EVERYTHING IS THE Offense’s FAULT!
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
skinsfan#33 wrote:But hey, you can't talk about that here because EVERYTHING IS THE Offense’s FAULT!
Quick question. Is 10 points enough to win a game?
Now look up the league average for scoring and figure out what the difference is between that and us. Now show me a defense that week in and week out is scoring that many points. And thats JUST to get up to the league average.
skinsfan#33 wrote:But hey, you can't talk about that here because EVERYTHING IS THE Offense’s FAULT!
Quick question. Is 10 points enough to win a game?
Now look up the league average for scoring and figure out what the difference is between that and us. Now show me a defense that week in and week out is scoring that many points. And thats JUST to get up to the league average.
It seems as though people have a hard time understanding that 10pts a game is not going to cut it. This isn't baseball or soccer where you would be blowing teams away with 7 to 10pts in an outing. This is football and we need a lot of points. Our D is just not getting enough credit for what they have done this year. Our special teams is laughable as is our offense. If it wasn't for our D, the final outcome of games would be far worse.
Cappster wrote:It seems as though people have a hard time understanding that 10pts a game is not going to cut it.
I don't know how to make them understand. I swear if we scored 3 points, one of these "fans" would complain that we should have held the opposing team to 0 points.
skinsfan#33 wrote:But hey, you can't talk about that here because EVERYTHING IS THE Offense’s FAULT!
Quick question. Is 10 points enough to win a game?
Now look up the league average for scoring and figure out what the difference is between that and us. Now show me a defense that week in and week out is scoring that many points. And thats JUST to get up to the league average.
Oh, really. Ten points isn't enough to win an NFL game this season!
Really!
I counted over 30 games so far this season that 10 points would have been enough for that team to win! And many other games 10 points would have forced and overtime.
So don't tell me 10 points isn't enough. The Raven even lost a game were 10 points would have been enough.
You just proved my point. The D could do more to win games.
And yes, I'm not stupid I get the more points the O puts up the higher chance they have of winning.
People here (DEHog excluded) just don't get that the defense has the right to win the game too! Not just keep us in games.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't know how to make them understand. I swear if we scored 3 points, one of these "fans" would complain that we should have held the opposing team to 0 points.
What makes it even more galling is that clubs like the Bucs and Panthers who have traditionally relied on defense are able to put up 30s and 40s on a fairly regular basis. We seem to have been left behind in the offensive explosion.
skinsfan#33 wrote:Oh, really. Ten points isn't enough to win an NFL game this season!
Really!
I counted over 30 games so far this season that 10 points would have been enough for that team to win! And many other games 10 points would have forced and overtime.
So don't tell me 10 points isn't enough. The Raven even lost a game were 10 points would have been enough.
You just proved my point. The D could do more to win games.
And yes, I'm not stupid I get the more points the O puts up the higher chance they have of winning.
People here (DEHog excluded) just don't get that the defense has the right to win the game too! Not just keep us in games.
So I assume in these games that 10 points wasn't enough to win. I went as far as week 9 and didn't see a game where 10 points won. Just from reading your post it's apparent that whatever teams you're talking about did NOT win that game where they ONLY SCORED 10 POINTS.
So again, as in my previous post to you. Show me a team that won by scoring 10 points and show me were they did it for 4 weeks in a row.
Please.
EDIT I saw 2 games in week 13 where 10 points won a game. One of those teams were the browns that lost by scoring less than 10... In surrouding weeks they were putting up as much as 30 points!!
Where are you getting 30 games from?
We haven't put up 30 points in ANY GAME THIS SEASON.
So PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE TEAMS ARE AVERAGING 10 POINTS A GAME FOR MANY WEEKS AND ARE WINNING.....!
Last edited by Chris Luva Luva on Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What makes all of this so frustrating is that everyone is right and wrong. Everyone is right about their chosen frustration point (Campbell, O-line, defense, coaching, wide recievers, etc.) costing the team games.
Where everyone is wrong is to beileve that any one thing is solely to blame.
Campbell's stats have improved from last year to this year, but the offense still isn't scoring.
Campbell is not getting the amount of time necessary to allow routes to develop because of the pass rush.
The recievers aren't getting good seperation on their routes, and are running routes that leave them short of the third down marker (either because they aren't paying attention to where it is, or due to poor choice of route in the playcall)
We aren't doing a whole lot to confuse defenses about what we are going to call next, and since we aren't completing any passes deeper than 10 yards, defenses can play shallow adding to the blitz or stuffing the run. We haven't done anything to get teams toworry about our long passing game, so they don't.
When everything goes right and Campbell does finally complete a pass to the reciever and score, the defense seems to let up and start playing prevent which only lets teams march down the field 6-7 yards at a time instead of getting one big quick score. The result is typically the same as the opponent scores, but the difference is that they take a lot longer (i.e. burn up a lot more clock) doing so.
If the defense had just kept doing what it had been doing successfully all game, the chances of the opponent making that score are far less than if the defense bends and bends and bends because they are so afraid of having a CB get burned for a touchdown.
The only thing that has been working is the running game, but much like the passing game, it hasn't been scoring a lot of points either, just racking up the yardage.
So it's not any one thing; it's a combination of all of the things that is costing the team games.
“If you grow up in metro Washington, you grow up a diehard Redskins fan. But if you hate your parents, you grow up a Cowboys fan.”-Jim Lachey
skinsfan#33 wrote:But hey, you can't talk about that here because EVERYTHING IS THE Offense’s FAULT!
Quick question. Is 10 points enough to win a game?
Now look up the league average for scoring and figure out what the difference is between that and us. Now show me a defense that week in and week out is scoring that many points. And thats JUST to get up to the league average.
Oh, really. Ten points isn't enough to win an NFL game this season!
Really!
I counted over 30 games so far this season that 10 points would have been enough for that team to win! And many other games 10 points would have forced and overtime.
So don't tell me 10 points isn't enough. The Raven even lost a game were 10 points would have been enough.
You just proved my point. The D could do more to win games.
And yes, I'm not stupid I get the more points the O puts up the higher chance they have of winning.
People here (DEHog excluded) just don't get that the defense has the right to win the game too! Not just keep us in games.
Not gonna blame the D for any of our losses but they do have an enourmous tendency to let the other team score directly after we do (however seldom that is.)
-2009 Hognostications Champion-
-Hognosti-Bowl V Champion-
-Hognosti-Bowl VI Champion-
Wo Wo Wo don’t take what I said about one drive in one game and automatically think that I think it’s the defenses fault. I made one comment about one drive in one game!! I simply stated a fact!!! The Skins scored to pull within 7 points with 12 min to go in a game and the D could not get a stop. That is a fact!! You want to assign meaning to that, its your right. My point it this, a football game is different every week it seldom if ever goes as planned. In the ebb and flow of a game you just hope you’re giving a chance to win. Now in talking about this game we scored and had an opportunity to get a stop and have a chance...we can argue all day long about what would have happened. But you can’t just give the D a pass???? You’re saying that a D that plays great for 3 quarters gets a pass in the (most important) 4th quarter?? I brought up the Steelers/Cowboys game because the Steelers D played well and the O stunk it up but they made plays in the 4th quarter and gave their O yet another shot and they tied it up and then made another play and won it.
Look I know our O need work, sometimes 10 is enough and sometimes 30 isn’t!! The game is 60 minutes long and the O, D and ST have to prepare as such…I don’t care about stats there are no style points in the NFL. It’s about outscoring your opponent period. If you’re in a tight battled your D doesn’t get a pass in the last drive because it has played well for three quarters!!
P.S. Chris I wish you lived closer to me I’d love to bring you on my coaching staff and see how you’d handle these types of situations.
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
Rock Cartwright and London Fletcher, two of the team captains, spoke at a team meeting held this morning in the wake of Clinton Portis' comments Tuesday.
Cartwright said it was very important for Jim Zorn to address the issue head-on - "we put it all out there in the open," he said - and that that would allow both sides to move on.
Portis did not speak at the meeting, but Zorn told the team that both he and Portis probably had said some things they regretted, according to Cartwright.
Cartwright told his teammates they "need to stick together and hold each other accountable."
Fletcher urged the team to focus on the importance of the game Sunday in Cincinnati and said that, for the most part, "guys do believe" in what's going on here, but "every now and then guys need a little pushing."
Fletcher also asked his teammates to "believe in what's being called" and to "believe in each other."
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
DEHog wrote:P.S. Chris I wish you lived closer to me I’d love to bring you on my coaching staff and see how you’d handle these types of situations.
That would be awesome.
I'd just cut everybody.
It would be awesome Chris!!
At the high school that's ok but what about my PeeWees where you have the take the first 30 that sign up and you have to play them at least 8 plays and if its only 7 (trust me) you will hear about!!
Oh and you can't give the D a pass in the 4th quarter!!
Who are you and what did you do with my man CLL??
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
At the high school that's ok but what about my PeeWees where you have the take the first 30 that sign up and you have to play them at least 8 plays and if its only 7 (trust me) you will hear about!!
Oh and you can't give the D a pass in the 4th quarter!!
Who are you and what did you do with my man CLL??
I wouldn't get irate with children.
The parents? My sarcasm would come through a bit.
I'd like to come out to a game or a practice, make sure you remind me.
PS. My last few points about scoring 10 points weren't directed at you.
skinsfan#33 wrote:Oh, really. Ten points isn't enough to win an NFL game this season!
Really!
I counted over 30 games so far this season that 10 points would have been enough for that team to win! And many other games 10 points would have forced and overtime.
So don't tell me 10 points isn't enough. The Raven even lost a game were 10 points would have been enough.
You just proved my point. The D could do more to win games.
And yes, I'm not stupid I get the more points the O puts up the higher chance they have of winning.
People here (DEHog excluded) just don't get that the defense has the right to win the game too! Not just keep us in games.
So I assume in these games that 10 points wasn't enough to win. I went as far as week 9 and didn't see a game where 10 points won. Just from reading your post it's apparent that whatever teams you're talking about did NOT win that game where they ONLY SCORED 10 POINTS.
So again, as in my previous post to you. Show me a team that won by scoring 10 points and show me were they did it for 4 weeks in a row.
Please.
EDIT I saw 2 games in week 13 where 10 points won a game. One of those teams were the browns that lost by scoring less than 10... In surrouding weeks they were putting up as much as 30 points!!
Where are you getting 30 games from?
We haven't put up 30 points in ANY GAME THIS SEASON.
So PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE TEAMS ARE AVERAGING 10 POINTS A GAME FOR MANY WEEKS AND ARE WINNING.....!
You go look at the scores. There were more than 30 games were the losing team scored less than 10. So 10 would have won that game. Yes, I know some of those teams might have scored more if the other team that did win only scored 10, but they didn't. So if the losing team only put up 9 or less, 10 would have been enough.
You can argue what ever you want. All I am saying is some time the D has to WIN a game and not just keep it close. That is all I am saying.
I'm totally with you that the offense needs to improve a lot, but you are mistaking what I am saying. I'm not saying the D is why we are losing, or the O isn't to blame, but what I am saying is that they aren't winning games like P-Burg's D does. or the Cowgirls team did against Tampa.
They are part of the team, they shoulder part of the blame. Like the Rams game. The O had their issues, but in crunch time they took the lead late in the fourth and the D let a winless team get in FG range to win the game. They did the same a week later against Cleveland. The only difference is Cleveland missed the FG.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
skinsfan#33 wrote:You go look at the scores. There were more than 30 games were the losing team scored less than 10. So 10 would have won that game. Yes, I know some of those teams might have scored more if the other team that did win only scored 10, but they didn't. So if the losing team only put up 9 or less, 10 would have been enough.
You've been spinning, haven't you?
I know, spinning is fun, but you get all dizzy and do things like post examples that prove Chris' point that if you score 10-points or less you lose!
“If you grow up in metro Washington, you grow up a diehard Redskins fan. But if you hate your parents, you grow up a Cowboys fan.”-Jim Lachey
skinsfan#33 wrote:You go look at the scores. There were more than 30 games were the losing team scored less than 10. So 10 would have won that game. Yes, I know some of those teams might have scored more if the other team that did win only scored 10, but they didn't. So if the losing team only put up 9 or less, 10 would have been enough.
You've been spinning, haven't you?
I know, spinning is fun, but you get all dizzy and do things like post examples that prove Chris' point that if you score 10-points or less you lose!
skinsfan#33 wrote:But hey, you can't talk about that here because EVERYTHING IS THE Offense’s FAULT!
Quick question. Is 10 points enough to win a game?
Now look up the league average for scoring and figure out what the difference is between that and us. Now show me a defense that week in and week out is scoring that many points. And thats JUST to get up to the league average.
Oh, really. Ten points isn't enough to win an NFL game this season!
Really!
I counted over 30 games so far this season that 10 points would have been enough for that team to win! And many other games 10 points would have forced and overtime.
So don't tell me 10 points isn't enough. The Raven even lost a game were 10 points would have been enough.
You just proved my point. The D could do more to win games.
And yes, I'm not stupid I get the more points the O puts up the higher chance they have of winning.
People here (DEHog excluded) just don't get that the defense has the right to win the game too! Not just keep us in games.
You're absolutely right. There are a bunch of games that 10 points could win. Sadly, three of them were against the Redskins. And two other games against the Redskins, 10 points would have been a tie.
That is pathetic...no other way to say it.
Now let's put in another way. If the Redskin offense averaged 25 points (like NYG, NO, Ari, Philly, GB. NYJ, SD, ATL. Tenn) we'd be UNDEFEATED right now at 13-0.
There are 4 teamsCORRECTION...3 teams in the NFL who have scored less per game than the Redskins. Can ya guess which ones? Hint: one of the isn't the 0-13 Lions.
And including the Lions who have scored the same as the Redskins, of those 4 teams, they've combined to win a total of 6 games.
Last edited by RayNAustin on Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RayNAustin wrote:Now let's put in another way. If the Redskin offense averaged 25 points (like NYG, NO, Ari, Philly, GB. NYJ, SD, ATL. Tenn) we'd be UNDEFEATED right now at 13-0.
Thank you, someone freaking understands!!!! Go back to 2004, 2005 and 2007... If we had an offense that could score a respectable amount of points we'd be winning the division and championships!
We don't need a steel curtain, we need 2 more TD's a game!
