here we go again... FIRE JIM ZORN!!!

[Californiaskin]

bottom line....the ravans are not really that great....they wont do much of anything in the playoffs...we kind of suck and need to get bigger younger and faster on both the o and d lines...

[SkinsJock]

bottom line....the ravans are not really that great....they wont do much of anything in the playoffs...we kind of suck and need to get bigger younger and faster on both the o and d lines...

I totally agree that the Ravens are not that great but the fact is they have a very good defense and while I know that you will find this incredibly hard to believe - the Ravens are actually favored to beat the Steelers - can you believe that?

An opportunity like this just never comes along - If i were you I would call my bookie right now and bet the house, the wife and anything you value on the Steelers - there is no way in hell that the Ravens (who you know are not that good) can beat the Steelers. You'll make a fortune.

Now I totally agree with you about the Redskins getting younger and faster .. but you probably wont be able to afford to live in CA after this bet you're going to make

[chiefhog44]

I want to be on record as OPPOSING any attempt to take the job away from Jim Zorn. I understand anger and frustration but Zorn has been one of the few bright lights this season. What is the guy guilty of???

Winning a few games and raising the expectations of a few to win a Super Bowl?

Come on guys, do not give any ideas to Danny. He might actually follow your advice!

I am with you. Zorn has to improve how he deals with the media, but we have got to give this guy a few years. I said that back when he was hired. It will take him a few years to get HIS players in here and teach them the system. He's done very well so far, just needs a bit of help with the media thing.

What Portis is doing is just immature. This is the second time this season he's said stupid things on air. Zorn will hopefully take the high road and sit him down and air their greivences.

[John Manfreda]

I would not fire Zorn, this offense has been bad for years, Zorn is not the problem. Sometimes problems can't be solved over night.
Zorn did not ignore the D-line and O-line in past drafts.
Going 7-6 with this team I think is a good job. Don't give me this is a playoff team bs. Last year we got in on a fluke, we played harder because of Taylor, Collins coming in also helped, if JC did not get hurt we wouldn't have made the playoffs last year. You do not trade your second round pick away for a veteran that will only be here for 2 years max. You only do this when your one player away from the superbowl, and the Redskins were not one player away from the superbowl.
I don't want to go into all the problems on our offense, but I think there are personal issues with this offense. And D-line. I personally think the problem is who picks the players.

[VetSkinsFan]

I want to be on record as OPPOSING any attempt to take the job away from Jim Zorn. I understand anger and frustration but Zorn has been one of the few bright lights this season. What is the guy guilty of???

Winning a few games and raising the expectations of a few to win a Super Bowl?

Come on guys, do not give any ideas to Danny. He might actually follow your advice!

I am with you. Zorn has to improve how he deals with the media, but we have got to give this guy a few years. I said that back when he was hired. It will take him a few years to get HIS players in here and teach them the system. He's done very well so far, just needs a bit of help with the media thing.

What Portis is doing is just immature. This is the second time this season he's said stupid things on air. Zorn will hopefully take the high road and sit him down and air their greivences.

So... CP gets abused like a stepchild and we win, it's okay. CP wears down due to the extraorrinary load for the abuse he took, now he's the scapegoat? And on top of that, he can't do what he's always done; voice his opinion? Come on now, we've known since he's been here that CP will speak his mind. I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense. He's given more than 110%....does whatever he's asked to do:block, receive, run like most teams run TWO backs. Maybe JZ needs to take a step back and look at his situation.

As as for the person who said put the screws to CP, that would be the worst thing he could do. Damage control and off-line resolution is what is needed. Burning that bridge is

[Chris Luva Luva]

What Portis is doing is just immature. This is the second time this season he's said stupid things on air. Zorn will hopefully take the high road and sit him down and air their greivences.

And what he said both times ended up being absolutely true.

And how can Zorn take the high road when he's already stooped down to this level?

Jeezus this is so frustrating and so unbelievably effing phony. You guys just don't understand that you're supporting a double standard.

Zorn can talk trash but CP can't?

Zorn can blame the defense for not holding....
Zorn can rag on Fred Davis to the media....
Zorn can blame everyone but himself right?

If you Zorn lovers wanna be real about it, he rode Joe Gibbs running game to a 6-2 record and once teams stopped the run, his passing offense couldn't bail them out. Give credit where it's due and Zorn gets jack-youknowwhat.

When we were 6-2 what were the headlines?
Portis for MVP! - Joe Gibbs rushing attack
Portis is the leading rusher! -Joe Gibbs rushing attack
Portis has the most touches of any back in the league!! - Joe Gibbs rushing attack

[DEHog]

What Portis is doing is just immature. This is the second time this season he's said stupid things on air. Zorn will hopefully take the high road and sit him down and air their greivences.

And what he said both times ended up being absolutely true.

And how can Zorn take the high road when he's already stooped down to this level?

Jeezus this is so frustrating and so unbelievably effing phony. You guys just don't understand that you're supporting a double standard.

Zorn can talk trash but CP can't?

Zorn can blame the defense for not holding....
Zorn can rag on Fred Davis to the media....
Zorn can blame everyone but himself right?

If you Zorn lovers wanna be real about it, he rode Joe Gibbs running game to a 6-2 record and once teams stopped the run, his passing offense couldn't bail them out. Give credit where it's due and Zorn gets jack-youknowwhat.

When we were 6-2 what were the headlines?
Portis for MVP! - Joe Gibbs rushing attack
Portis is the leading rusher! -Joe Gibbs rushing attack
Portis has the most touches of any back in the league!! - Joe Gibbs rushing attack

Chris I haven't taken sides...but why do you define what Zorn has done as "trash talking" I really don't see it that way...I see it more of Zorn trying to motivate and manage the game...not saying it's the right way, you want to fault him for not having Portis in OK... but I think Zorn is trying...remember this is his rookie year. I don't see and I don't believe what he has done, he's done with malice? I think he's doing what he feels is in the best interest for the Redskins to wijn. He said Portis missed practices and that Betts was more prepared for the way the game went in Baltimore...his OC agreed with him...is there anything wrong with that??

[Chris Luva Luva]

I'm not that pissed at Zorn or CP. I dont care. I'm irritated with the "fans" and how they stereotype and label players but if a coach does the same thing it's not an issue.

[DEHog]

I'm not that pissed at Zorn or CP. I dont care. I'm irritated with the "fans" and how they stereotype and label players but if a coach does the same thing it's not an issue.

Fair enough, coaches have a responablity as well. One of the hardest thing for me as a coach is to address playing time with the parents of the kids I coach. I'm honest when talking with them, but I never say anything publicly or to the entire team about a player's ability. I do agree Zorn could have handle it better, but I think it much to do about nothing.

[CanesSkins26]

I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense.

That is the most important part of this in my opinion. Indirectly, Zorn put the blame for the offensive struggles on Clinton' shoulders and if I was CP I would have reacted the same way. Let's face it, Zorn has never even been an OC, let along a HC, and right now he is lost. We are using the same running game that we did last year and it has been effective. The part of the offense that is new, the part that Zorn is directly responsible for, is the passing game and it has been beyond pathetic. Zorn has managed to make our passing game under Gibbs look explosive. Right now as an OC he sucks, that's the bottom. These are his pass plays, his pass protections schemes, and right now they aren't working. He hasn't adjusted to what opposing defenses have done to stop us and has used no wrinkles. Even the Panthers, one of the most conservative teams in the NFL, ran the Wildcat against Tampa. All that Zorn is doing right now is showing that those that had reservations about his hiring were right on the money.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense.

That is the most important part of this in my opinion. Indirectly, Zorn put the blame for the offensive struggles on Clinton' shoulders

When did he do that? Can you show me what this is based on? CP has been hurt and hasn't practiced in over a month means the offensive struggles are his fault?

[CanesSkins26]

I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense.

That is the most important part of this in my opinion. Indirectly, Zorn put the blame for the offensive struggles on Clinton' shoulders

When did he do that? Can you show me what this is based on? CP has been hurt and hasn't practiced in over a month means the offensive struggles are his fault?

He didn't directly say it, but the insinuation was there that CP not practicing is hurting the offense, which I think is nonsense. He also said that CP wasn't releasing from his blocks properly. Saying that you replaced CP with Betts because Betts was better prepared implies that CP was hurting the offense.

[Redskin in Canada]

Visiting this thread is as nice as paying a visit to the dentist with a broken tooth. It is painful.

Guys, get your act together and support your entire TEAM.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense.

That is the most important part of this in my opinion. Indirectly, Zorn put the blame for the offensive struggles on Clinton' shoulders

When did he do that? Can you show me what this is based on? CP has been hurt and hasn't practiced in over a month means the offensive struggles are his fault?

He didn't directly say it, but the insinuation was there that CP not practicing is hurting the offense, which I think is nonsense. He also said that CP wasn't releasing from his blocks properly. Saying that you replaced CP with Betts because Betts was better prepared implies that CP was hurting the offense.

OK, he is saying Portis not practicing is "hurting" the offense, which is clearly true. The starting RB doesn't practice "hurts" the offense is sort of a no duh. But it's because Portis has been hurt. Anyway, how do you get from that to that Portis is being blamed for the "shortcomings of the offense," which is what you said? Saying it hurts that he doesn't practice is far short of blaming him for our offensive woes.

[DEHog]

I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense.

That is the most important part of this in my opinion. Indirectly, Zorn put the blame for the offensive struggles on Clinton' shoulders

When did he do that? Can you show me what this is based on? CP has been hurt and hasn't practiced in over a month means the offensive struggles are his fault?

He didn't directly say it, but the insinuation was there that CP not practicing is hurting the offense, which I think is nonsense. He also said that CP wasn't releasing from his blocks properly. Saying that you replaced CP with Betts because Betts was better prepared implies that CP was hurting the offense.

OK, he is saying Portis not practicing is "hurting" the offense, which is clearly true. The starting RB doesn't practice "hurts" the offense is sort of a no duh. But it's because Portis has been hurt. Anyway, how do you get from that to that Portis is being blamed for the "shortcomings of the offense," which is what you said? Saying it hurts that he doesn't practice is far short of blaming him for our offensive woes.

I have to agree no where did JZ blamed Portis...lost in all this is that Zorn was ask a direct question about Portis and he addressed it. It snot like JZ came out and just started making comments about him. He was ask a question and gave a honest anwser.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I may not agree with everything he's done, but there's no way I would sit there and take the blame for the shortcomings of the offense.

That is the most important part of this in my opinion. Indirectly, Zorn put the blame for the offensive struggles on Clinton' shoulders

When did he do that? Can you show me what this is based on? CP has been hurt and hasn't practiced in over a month means the offensive struggles are his fault?

He didn't directly say it, but the insinuation was there that CP not practicing is hurting the offense, which I think is nonsense. He also said that CP wasn't releasing from his blocks properly. Saying that you replaced CP with Betts because Betts was better prepared implies that CP was hurting the offense.

OK, he is saying Portis not practicing is "hurting" the offense, which is clearly true. The starting RB doesn't practice "hurts" the offense is sort of a no duh. But it's because Portis has been hurt. Anyway, how do you get from that to that Portis is being blamed for the "shortcomings of the offense," which is what you said? Saying it hurts that he doesn't practice is far short of blaming him for our offensive woes.

I have to agree no where did JZ blamed Portis...lost in all this is that Zorn was ask a direct question about Portis and he addressed it. It snot like JZ came out and just started making comments about him. He was ask a question and gave a honest anwser.

And it was a pretty reasonable answer. Portis hasn't practiced in 5 weeks and isn't running the plays right. He ran 9 times for 32 yards before he was removed. That screams a guy needs to take a step back. This could really help if CP can practice not having been pounded so much as we go into the critical 3 games of the season. OK, Zorn could have complimented CP and said he loves the guys heart or something, but he's not a touchy feely guy. Neither is CP.

[Bob 0119]

This looks like a reasonable spot for some shameless self-promotion

[RayNAustin]

I'm not that pissed at Zorn or CP. I dont care. I'm irritated with the "fans" and how they stereotype and label players but if a coach does the same thing it's not an issue.

Fair enough, coaches have a responablity as well. One of the hardest thing for me as a coach is to address playing time with the parents of the kids I coach. I'm honest when talking with them, but I never say anything publicly or to the entire team about a player's ability. I do agree Zorn could have handle it better, but I think it much to do about nothing.

Given the importance of the team chemistry, and locker room attitude, I don't see how you can say it's much to do about nothing. Having your star player feeling poorly treated by the staff, right or wrong, is concerning. And the way I read CP's comments, he's not just talking about Zorn, but also Mitchel.

ey just about let the cat out of the bag last week, but stopped himself. And you have to wonder just how much the o-line is feeling unjustly blamed for all of the offensive woes when you take into account the communication problems regarding pass pro, and the 25+ different protection schemes that Campbell has had trouble getting familiar with and calling correctly.

And now Smoot? Guaranteed, that if you have 2-3-4 players disgruntled and saying so, you've got others who haven't opened their mouths but feel similiarly.

That's a big problem, considering that these players are not your typical trouble makers. Can you imagine if we had TO and Ocho Cinco in that locker room right now???

.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I said a long time ago that I think Zorn isn't that great of a teacher.

When you have all 3 offensive rookies failing to comprehend his offense, you have to start looking at the teacher/s....

All of them can't be stupid.

[SKINFAN]

CLL....


With all these Offensive struggles we've been having, I think even the Vets don't comprehend his offense.

[roybus14]

I said a long time ago that I think Zorn isn't that great of a teacher.

When you have all 3 offensive rookies failing to comprehend his offense, you have to start looking at the teacher/s....

All of them can't be stupid.

Jim Zorn's failure now is that he didn't find a way to ride that 6-2 start and capitalize on what they were doing to get to 6-2. This all comes down to experience. I'm not going to say we should dump him because I like many others on this board was feeling great at 6-2.

But Jim Zorn really needs to take a look at all of this and himself, understand and make moves to correct some of the mistakes he's made. I personally think that he at times over thinks the offense and wants them to run what he calls to the tee without room for improvising or making adjustments.

Notice how we have 5 seconds or less by the time JC get's under center. Very early in the season, JC was under center with 10 or more seconds left on the play clock. When offenses that are predictable do that, the defense usually wins because you don't give yourself anytime to audible, check-down, or whatever if the defense lines up in a specific set. Like for instance, we get to the line with a few seconds to spare and Moss is one-on-one with the teams weakest corner. JC doesn't have time to recognize that, audible or change the play to go to Moss. So we got to run what was called which is usually stopped or a play pass that is short of the first down..

[Chris Luva Luva]

I said a long time ago that I think Zorn isn't that great of a teacher.

When you have all 3 offensive rookies failing to comprehend his offense, you have to start looking at the teacher/s....

All of them can't be stupid.

Jim Zorn's failure now is that he didn't find a way to ride that 6-2 start and capitalize on what they were doing to get to 6-2. This all comes down to experience. I'm not going to say we should dump him because I like many others on this board was feeling great at 6-2.

IMO. That 6-2 ride wasn't Jim... That was the running game, that was Joe Gibbs. That was Clinton being the proposed MVP and league rusher, non of which had anything to do with Zorns passing game.

So what happened? Teams focused on stopping the run and the passing game has NOT been able to alleviate the pressure.

It is really that simple. Jim Zorn's end of the offense is not producing and I think partly it has to do with him not being able to really coach the guys up...

[PulpExposure]

I said a long time ago that I think Zorn isn't that great of a teacher.

When you have all 3 offensive rookies failing to comprehend his offense, you have to start looking at the teacher/s....

All of them can't be stupid.

Jim Zorn's failure now is that he didn't find a way to ride that 6-2 start and capitalize on what they were doing to get to 6-2. This all comes down to experience. I'm not going to say we should dump him because I like many others on this board was feeling great at 6-2.

IMO. That 6-2 ride wasn't Jim... That was the running game, that was Joe Gibbs. That was Clinton being the proposed MVP and league rusher, non of which had anything to do with Zorns passing game.

So what happened? Teams focused on stopping the run and the passing game has NOT been able to alleviate the pressure.

It is really that simple. Jim Zorn's end of the offense is not producing and I think partly it has to do with him not being able to really coach the guys up...

Really, a lot has to do with the decline of the running game. We haven't run effectively in the games we've lost. That's the common thread there.

The passing game success has always been predicated on the existence of a strong running game. When the running game falters...the passing game goes into the toilet too.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Really, a lot has to do with the decline of the running game. We haven't run effectively in the games we've lost. That's the common thread there.

The passing game success has always been predicated on the existence of a strong running game. When the running game falters...the passing game goes into the toilet too.

I don't get this. And I don't agree with it.

When we played the Giants, we STOPPED their running game? So what did they do? They scored through the air...

You're not going to successfully run when a game defense is committed to stopping it. Your passing game has to pick up the slack and balance things out.

So what that the running game isn't working? It's not working cus defenses aren't respecting the pass.

[PulpExposure]

Really, a lot has to do with the decline of the running game. We haven't run effectively in the games we've lost. That's the common thread there.

The passing game success has always been predicated on the existence of a strong running game. When the running game falters...the passing game goes into the toilet too.

I don't get this. And I don't agree with it.

When we played the Giants, we STOPPED their running game? So what did they do? They scored through the air...

You're not going to successfully run when a game defense is committed to stopping it. Your passing game has to pick up the slack and balance things out.

So what that the running game isn't working? It's not working cus defenses aren't respecting the pass.

No, my point is that OUR passing game is completely predicated on the success of the running game. That's why our offense has stalled in the past few games.

We don't have a passing game capable of taking up the slack. We should...but we don't.

As discussed, ad nauseum on this board, there are a multiple amount of reasons for this. It's overly simplistic to blame it on one factor. Quarterback, playcalling, offensive line, receivers...all appear to be failing critically, and more importantly, we can't tell what is failing and what is working.

A great offensive line won't help a QB that makes bad decisions, and receivers who can't catch, run the wrong routes, etc. A great QB can't make up for a awful offensive line, or receivers who can't catch or run the wrong routes. The perfect playcall will FAIL every time if the o-line doesn't block, the QB makes the wrong read, or the receiver runs the wrong route. And so on.