Post-game chat Ravens-SKins

[Chris Luva Luva]

I agree, but not because he doesn't have "arm strength" but because he still throws lasers instead of lofting passes the WRs can run under and catch.

I agree 100%

[DEHog]

Let's face it... since the passing of Sean Taylor, nobody on this team, offense defense, or special teams scares anyone... no opposing coaching staff works late figuring out how to protect the passer, how to contain Jason Taylor or Rocky Macintosh... even though our DBs have played well, nobody's worried about throwing at Rogers, or getting laid out when they run a crossing pattern... Our receivers don't make anybody nervous,even bad secondaries, unless it's Moss against Dallas... Cambell's arm strength doesn't matter because he can't drop back more than 3 steps without having to dodge a defender... Portis, even when healthy, might be able to grind out yards when they have the lead, but he's not going to break the game open with a 60-yard touchdown... Randel El is more like ly to get an invite to Dancing with the Starts than return a punt 10 yards... Cartwright is a solid return guy, but not a threat to do anything special... They're really just a group of mediocre athletes trying their best, in a league dominated by playmakers... I know this is stating the obvious, but for years the front office has thrown money at bandaid fixes, and developed little, if any, young talent...

That was my thoughts as well. I have watched the last few games as we have faced some of the NFL’s elite teams and you could tell who their playmakers were.
Pittsburgh has Troy and Harrison, Dallas has Barber, Romo, Owens and Ware the Giants have Pierce, Tuck, Eli, and Jacobs…Then last night it was Ed Reed he beat us single handedly yet again, just like the last time we played them. We’ve really seen the effect of Sean being gone the last few games. IMO LaRon is lost at FS…or he just doesn’t want to hit. It seems since Jacobs trucked him in the opening game he’s been MIA. Last week Jacobs came around the corner and LaRon wanted no part of him. He’s been terrible in the open field this year. Last night one play really stood out to me…it was the pass to Heap, Flacco lobbed the ball up and LaRon just play the ball like a center fielder?? Do you know what Sean would have done to Heap on the play??? Before you dismiss the notion that Sean being gone is the biggest problem…think about this…what would the Ravens look like without Reed. With Reed they are able to get off the field on third down, turnovers, he is a treat with the ball in his hands, he make those around him better…remind you of anyone??

[Chris Luva Luva]

IMO LaRon is lost at FS…or he just doesn’t want to hit.

Laron deeply dissapointed me on that high pass to Heap, he looked lost on that play.

However, I'm shocked you're knocking his effort. He believe he wants to hit... I also believe that he doesn't have the body mass to do it. Let's rewind back to week 1 when Jacobs almost decapitated him. Laron has the will but not the ability to hit like Sean Taylor. Nobody in the NFL hit like Sean. He was basically a LB with the speed of a CB playing FS... Laron will never bean Sean.

Laron could be our Ed Reed... Ed is not a big hitter but he's a hawk, as is Laron. If we get a pass rush, I can see him being more of a Reed than a Taylor.

[DEHog]

IMO LaRon is lost at FS…or he just doesn’t want to hit.

Laron deeply dissapointed me on that high pass to Heap, he looked lost on that play.

However, I'm shocked you're knocking his effort. He believe he wants to hit... I also believe that he doesn't have the body mass to do it. Let's rewind back to week 1 when Jacobs almost decapitated him. Laron has the will but not the ability to hit like Sean Taylor. Nobody in the NFL hit like Sean. He was basically a LB with the speed of a CB playing FS... Laron will never bean Sean.

Laron could be our Ed Reed... Ed is not a big hitter but he's a hawk, as is Laron. If we get a pass rush, I can see him being more of a Reed than a Taylor.

I'm just saying...he looks lost ...he is not the same player and he can not open field tackle, he takes bad angles and he just seems to shy away from contact. He needs to be moved back to SS. Sorry Chris but please don't use LaRon and Reed in the same sentence.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I'm just saying...he looks lost ...he is not the same player and he can not open field tackle, he takes bad angles and he just seems to shy away from contact. He needs to be moved back to SS. Sorry Chris but please don't use LaRon and Reed in the same sentence.

I don't totally disagree with you, I simply disagreed on questioning his heart. We said the same things about Sean, it took him a few years to get the pursuit angles. He had missed tackles while trying to destroy people. Sean had the big hits to make up for those issues that we turned a blind eye to.

I'm not totally opposed Laron going back to SS and I even recommened that myself a few weeks back.

However, I think with a pass rush, he'd be an interception machine.

[PulpExposure]

I'm just saying...he looks lost ...he is not the same player and he can not open field tackle, he takes bad angles and he just seems to shy away from contact. He needs to be moved back to SS. Sorry Chris but please don't use LaRon and Reed in the same sentence.

I don't totally disagree with you, I simply disagreed on questioning his heart. We said the same things about Sean, it took him a few years to get the pursuit angles. He had missed tackles while trying to destroy people. Sean had the big hits to make up for those issues that we turned a blind eye to.

I'm not totally opposed Laron going back to SS and I even recommened that myself a few weeks back.

However, I think with a pass rush, he'd be an interception machine.

I completely agree with you. It takes awhile to become comfortable playing deep safety...Taylor only really showed a complete grasp of the game last season, unfortunately. Landry is coming along fine, but he will never be the hitter Taylor was. And shouldn't be. He's more of a ballhawk like Ed Reed.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I'm just saying...he looks lost ...he is not the same player and he can not open field tackle, he takes bad angles and he just seems to shy away from contact. He needs to be moved back to SS. Sorry Chris but please don't use LaRon and Reed in the same sentence.

I don't totally disagree with you, I simply disagreed on questioning his heart. We said the same things about Sean, it took him a few years to get the pursuit angles. He had missed tackles while trying to destroy people. Sean had the big hits to make up for those issues that we turned a blind eye to.

I'm not totally opposed Laron going back to SS and I even recommened that myself a few weeks back.

However, I think with a pass rush, he'd be an interception machine.

I completely agree with you. It takes awhile to become comfortable playing deep safety...Taylor only really showed a complete grasp of the game last season, unfortunately. Landry is coming along fine, but he will never be the hitter Taylor was. And shouldn't be. He's more of a ballhawk like Ed Reed.

And Landy is at a severe disadvantage than Ed. He has to play deeper because we have no pass rush and doesn't have the ability to gamble as much because QB's have all day to pass.

Am I calling him Ed? No but he has the potential to be as much of a hawk but I don't know how good his return ability is.

[VetSkinsFan]

I'm just saying...he looks lost ...he is not the same player and he can not open field tackle, he takes bad angles and he just seems to shy away from contact. He needs to be moved back to SS. Sorry Chris but please don't use LaRon and Reed in the same sentence.

I don't totally disagree with you, I simply disagreed on questioning his heart. We said the same things about Sean, it took him a few years to get the pursuit angles. He had missed tackles while trying to destroy people. Sean had the big hits to make up for those issues that we turned a blind eye to.

I'm not totally opposed Laron going back to SS and I even recommened that myself a few weeks back.

However, I think with a pass rush, he'd be an interception machine.

I completely agree with you. It takes awhile to become comfortable playing deep safety...Taylor only really showed a complete grasp of the game last season, unfortunately. Landry is coming along fine, but he will never be the hitter Taylor was. And shouldn't be. He's more of a ballhawk like Ed Reed.

If we DID move him back to SS, we don't have anyone to play FS. I really like LL's speed back there and Horton doesn't have it. Before you mention Springs, when's the last time he played 16 consecutive games?
Green is our most viable option atm, but I haven't really seen enough of him consistantly to get a good feel for him. I know he's done adequately when called upon as a back up. He's also 32 so there won't be much upside from where he stands now short of getting a groove in the scheme.

As illustrated above, I still think LL can be a ball hawk. This is only his 2nd year in the NFL. I hope he really takes off next year, getting a whole year under his belt at 1 position.

[RayNAustin]

The obvious lack of a solid pass rush makes what the secondary (and Blache) has been able to do this year that much more impressive. And in my view, it's the lack of push in the middle at DT that allows teams to form a solid pocket that impacts the ability of the DE's to pressure QBs.

To me the jury is still deliberating on JT. He hasn't shown much in the sack dept, but he deflects a lot of passes at the line. I think 1 beast at DT could cure much of the d-line ills. It would at least be a good starting point. But overall, the defense is not much of a concern. The offense, and the little signs that both the offensive players and the HC are on the verge of a total meltdown is troublesome, and the big issue (just like it has been for years now).

Benching Portis yesterday is a bad sign, and as much as I believed Zorn had exceeded expectations just a handful of weeks ago, the steady digression of the offense has brought a whole new set of issues to the fore.

I still believe, and have seen little to sway me in the other direction, that Campbell is the central liability here. He's certainly not the whole problem, but there is a certain defeatist mentality creeping into the psychology of the entire offense.....players and coaches.... and we aren't far away from some major back biting breaking out.

The TD pass to ARE on 4th down was an outstanding play both from Campbell and ARE. ARE was covered, yet Campbell gunned it in there and ARE went up and came down with it. Problem is, I think it's those kinds of plays that are out there and not even attempted until it's desperation time. It was a "nothing left to lose" shot that I think Campbell too often refuses to attempt during the normal course of a game. That type of carefulness may show up in fantastically low interception numbers, but also shows up in fantastically low points scored too, and explains the reason why Campbell holds the ball too long, and bails out of the pocket way too early. He may talk a good game in post game interviews, but this is not a confident QB. He's too concerned about making mistakes, and consequently incapable of becoming a play maker. Then, out of nowhere, there is the schizophrenic and uncharacteristic pass attempt that has no chance of success (like the last interception to CC).

And the magnitude of the problems suggest that there is no answer in the offing for this week's practice, and I wonder if one exists at all without a major shift in personnel priorities.

There is no point in making a change this week to another QB. Political suicide on Zorn's part IMO. But, one more loss, and it's time to put in Brennan just to see what the kid's got in a real life situation, so that you can evaluate what, if anything you might expect from him as a potential for next year.

Had Atlanta had a veteran QB, and were not forced to start Matt Ryan, most would have given him no chance for success on a rebuilding team. It just goes to show that you cannot predict these things in advance.

[SkinsFreak]

Benching Portis yesterday is a bad sign, and as much as I believed Zorn had exceeded expectations just a handful of weeks ago, the steady digression of the offense has brought a whole new set of issues to the fore.

Did Zorn say he "benched" Portis? Jeezus people.

The past few weeks everyone was complaining that Portis was being way over-used. All we heard around here was... "there's no way Portis can sustain this kind of workload and Zorn is driving him into the ground. Give Betts and co. more carries, Portis is banged up and needs some rest if he wants to make it to the end of the season".

So Zorn gives Portis a rest for a series or two and now it's... "benching Portis is a bad sign and shows digression". How about the fact that Portis has some injuries and just needed some rest, because there's no sense in overworking your best player when he's hurt. That ever occur to you?

[MEZZSKIN]

i understand we have oline problems..its obvious
But you mean to tell me over the last 5 games everytime our team was inside the the opp 40 Our QB was unable to make ONE PLAY!
i mean everyone is covered EVERYTIME!....I'm not one of Play Colt guys...
JC NEEDS TO PLAY THRU THIS

BUT JESUS CHRIST
MAKE ONE PLAY!!!!...ROTHLISBERGER IS RUNNING FOR HIS LIFE AFTER EVERY SNAP!!!
he makes plays routinely
JC NEEDS TO STEP UP

[redskins14ru]

You're either part of the solution, or part of the problem. I think the QB should help the offense.....but that's just me.

He should help WR's make catches? Help linemen block?

I saw the offense go for a 3 wide set and put cooly out to the left, why not motion cooley fake the power right and run the reverse back to the left?

The offensive line can't get knocked back all game; even when they
create lanes they need to play better football down the field, especially in the interior at guard, this is mainly a decision making process after JC calls the blocking adjustments at the line and the ball is snapped, and the play has started, IE the portis fumble! I could appreciate a good heads up play to rid clinton P of an extra tackler but with the ball being stripped no way, well back to the drawing board, kudos to heyers pass blocking, I hope draft a solid run blocker high in the draft and may still be platooning out there next year, and for the LT get him a back up that can play and roll on
otss

[redskins14ru]

so ray in austin you think that if the qb throws completions and puts the ball consistanly were the receivers can do something without dropping passes then he will win football games for the skins., a recievers stride is important sooo I will agree that the combo of zip and touch combined with arm strength will be JC down fall.
the last option of of cambels is the fastest thing he is getting to, so either the first and second options are not there or he can't make the throw with confidence in the decision or it is all a spoof and the #1 option is the third reciever.

monks record reception came after he beat aout a seahawk right,
skins suck at 15 yard dig routes and cooley is not hot either
go skins go

[HEROHAMO]

What can I say?

This team has some holes and they are being exposed every week. The same weaknesses we were talking about in the past are still there.

Pass rush, Receivers, and QB. Improvement in these three areas are obvious. I am just ready for the draft already.

Next year hopefully the QB position will be competed for in Camp. I just hope we dont just hand the job to JC. I want it to be an open competition to start the best guy.

Trade for Calvin Johnson to get a real receiver. Draft some Dline and Oline help.

Just trade for Calvin Johnson? And then draft some help?

If we traded for Calvin Johnson we wouldn't have a draft. It'd probably take two first round picks.

Good point.

It would be worth giving up two first round picks and a second rounder. Do you agree?

[HEROHAMO]

The other thing is when teams blitz, there's always someone coming free to the QB (which mysteriously never happens when WE blitz...and we blitz all the damn time). The play that Campbell got sacked by Lewis, both Lewis and Leonard blitzed...and Sellers missed the block...so BOTH were free. It was ridiculous.

LOL!

I was thinking the same thing. How in the world do teams always have a man coming free for JC. Yet we blitz and everyone gets blocked?

This is whats worse. The Ravens Just overloaded one side, and rushed four or five! Often having four or five defenders in the secondary and still Campbell was pressured.

I am past the point of frustated. I am already studying draft picks. I am throwing in the towel for this year.

[Countertrey]

If we DID move him back to SS, we don't have anyone to play FS. I really like LL's speed back there and Horton doesn't have it. Before you mention Springs, when's the last time he played 16 consecutive games?
Green is our most viable option atm, but I haven't really seen enough of him consistantly to get a good feel for him. I know he's done adequately when called upon as a back up. He's also 32 so there won't be much upside from where he stands now short of getting a groove in the scheme.

Here's the deal... Kareem Moore is a free safety... and, reportedly, was seen as having bigger upside than Horton was supposed to have. He can hit (as we have seen when he is on teams), and, reportedly, can cover. Of course, the blossoming of Horton, (who is a strong safety, and would be at a real disadvantage at free), made it possible to use Landry as free... and keeps Moore from getting much playing time to pick up NFL experience. So, it is possible to move Landry up... Moore is not Landry... but he would be fine. There are probably 20 teams that he would have been competing for a starting position on this year.

[SkinFan63]

The offense we've seen the last 5 weeks is where the baseline needs to be set for evaluation and player acquisition.

That 6-2 start is an anomaly and must be treated as though is never happened.

That's for sure.
We need an enima.
A complete cleansing from the top down.
Springs/Rogers/Taylor, see ya!
Most of the O line - See ya!
A few players like Portis who plays injured, and not at 100%, costing
us games someone else could have played giving him a rest. See ya!
I'm gonna do out on a limb here and say why didn't we let Sean Alexander play a whole game and give Portis a rest?
Alexander was 100% healthy. Why not see what he could do? Isn't that why we paid him to join our team? Don't get me wrong, I love Portis, but he, like Jason Taylor, playing at 70% is a liability.

[SkinFan63]

If Portis is healthy, the offense looks a whoe lot better

he's not and won't be, so we won't be good

By Portis playing 5 weeks ago against the Steelers set this freefall in motion. If he would have taken the week to rest, he would have been at full strength for these games. Instead, he hasn't practiced for 5 weeks, and we expect the team to play in a rythem. I agree with the call to bench him tonight. Should have been done long ago.

Yes.....finally someone who sees my thoughts.
Selfishness on the part of some players has cost us some games.
If you're not 100%, and someone is who can take your place, take the day off!

[redskins14ru]

we need a back up back for portis via free agent.

[CanesSkins26]

Benching Portis yesterday is a bad sign, and as much as I believed Zorn had exceeded expectations just a handful of weeks ago, the steady digression of the offense has brought a whole new set of issues to the fore.

Did Zorn say he "benched" Portis? Jeezus people.

The past few weeks everyone was complaining that Portis was being way over-used. All we heard around here was... "there's no way Portis can sustain this kind of workload and Zorn is driving him into the ground. Give Betts and co. more carries, Portis is banged up and needs some rest if he wants to make it to the end of the season".

So Zorn gives Portis a rest for a series or two and now it's... "benching Portis is a bad sign and shows digression". How about the fact that Portis has some injuries and just needed some rest, because there's no sense in overworking your best player when he's hurt. That ever occur to you?

CP only had one or two carries at the start of the second half and was then pulled from the game. Zorn gave some garbage answer about us being down and knowing that we were going to have to pass a lot and he didn't think that CP was ready for pass protection since he didn't practice this week. Total nonsense. Betts cant pass protect at all and Sellers isn't much better. If CP needs rest then don't play him, but don't pull our best offensive player out of the game.

[Gibbs4Life]

Did we really just lose to Joe Flacco?

Do you think Gregg Williams would've stopped Joe Flacco?

Our defense was hung out to dry and when we truly needed a stop it wasn't there, how does Rogers let Mason double move him for a td?

[Gibbs4Life]

Watching the Ravens game... things that stands out

(oline)Jason's first INT; Terrell Suggs treats Chris Samuels like a red headed step child and gets to the ball while Jason is throwing...IS SAMUELS DONE?

(dline) Second thing: Ravens first td, after a crossing route to Mason, the just plow right through the middle of our line with a FB McClain, #55 #96 #94 got blown up and Fletch went wide left to cover McGehee.

(oline) second posession, 3rd down and 6, ravens give exotic look like they're blitzing 6, they only send 4 and they get to campell

Third posession: MY DADS FAVORITE NFL RULE QUOTE: "The Ground Cannot Force A Fumble" He says it all the time, watching this play where portis suppossedly "fumbles" I can tell if the game was in Fedex it would be ruled down but because we had some homer refs the turf was allowed to force a fumble, yes ed reed swiped at it, but the ball was secure in CP's arm until his elbow hit the ground. THATS A BS CALL!

Cartwright hears whistle Still Going! Fourth posession run right stuffed, run left stuffed, 3rd and 9, ravens send 6 Jason NICE AVOID RESET THROW to devin thomas first down! Jason took it on the chin from ray ray, //// run right, stuffed, 8 yrd pass to moss, nice throw, Swing to sellers the hurtle! Delay of GAME? on first down?! then a timeout wow. 2nd down illegal shift two men moving prior to the snap did not reset. And on third down they overload the left and samuels and Sellers get abused on the way to 17

The first quarter told the story...
1.Suggs Beats Samuels
2.Dline is knifed through the middle by a FB
3.Oline can't stop a 4 man rush
4.Refs hose us for a td
5. We move the ball well then the left side of our line gets overloaded
and Jason still takes 7 step drop and gets jacked up.

[VetSkinsFan]

If we DID move him back to SS, we don't have anyone to play FS. I really like LL's speed back there and Horton doesn't have it. Before you mention Springs, when's the last time he played 16 consecutive games?
Green is our most viable option atm, but I haven't really seen enough of him consistantly to get a good feel for him. I know he's done adequately when called upon as a back up. He's also 32 so there won't be much upside from where he stands now short of getting a groove in the scheme.

Here's the deal... Kareem Moore is a free safety... and, reportedly, was seen as having bigger upside than Horton was supposed to have. He can hit (as we have seen when he is on teams), and, reportedly, can cover. Of course, the blossoming of Horton, (who is a strong safety, and would be at a real disadvantage at free), made it possible to use Landry as free... and keeps Moore from getting much playing time to pick up NFL experience. So, it is possible to move Landry up... Moore is not Landry... but he would be fine. There are probably 20 teams that he would have been competing for a starting position on this year.

I'm not saying that is possible, but if it's that likely, why haven't the Skins tried it out yet? If Moore/LL brings more to the table than LL/Horton, then they'd be on the field I'd say, but they're not. Maybe Moore isn't coming along as fast as Horton is and that's why we have the tandem we have now. They even put SPRINGS back there before they put Moore in.

[SkinsFreak]

Benching Portis yesterday is a bad sign, and as much as I believed Zorn had exceeded expectations just a handful of weeks ago, the steady digression of the offense has brought a whole new set of issues to the fore.

Did Zorn say he "benched" Portis? Jeezus people.

The past few weeks everyone was complaining that Portis was being way over-used. All we heard around here was... "there's no way Portis can sustain this kind of workload and Zorn is driving him into the ground. Give Betts and co. more carries, Portis is banged up and needs some rest if he wants to make it to the end of the season".

So Zorn gives Portis a rest for a series or two and now it's... "benching Portis is a bad sign and shows digression". How about the fact that Portis has some injuries and just needed some rest, because there's no sense in overworking your best player when he's hurt. That ever occur to you?

CP only had one or two carries at the start of the second half and was then pulled from the game. Zorn gave some garbage answer about us being down and knowing that we were going to have to pass a lot and he didn't think that CP was ready for pass protection since he didn't practice this week. Total nonsense. Betts cant pass protect at all and Sellers isn't much better. If CP needs rest then don't play him, but don't pull our best offensive player out of the game.

Zorn basically said it was a combination of Portis' health and his lack of practice time, which has been extremely limited due to his injuries. But again, most have been calling to more playing time for Betts because Portis was being over-used. Zorn gives Portis a break and some of the same folks screaming about Zorn over-playing Portis are the same ones now taking shots at Zorn for giving Portis the rest many said he needed.

It's just another example of ignorant fans overreacting and searching for any crumb of diversity to attack the team for... kinda the way your posts are written.

Here's what Zorn said yesterday...

Zorn said that the rest would help Portis, who has battled through a myriad of injuries this season.

“We’ve got to keep Clinton going,” Zorn said. “Even though he sat on the bench and was frustrated, he’s going to be far healthier and be able to practice this week, which is going to help us down this run.”

[SkinsFreak]

If we DID move him back to SS, we don't have anyone to play FS. I really like LL's speed back there and Horton doesn't have it. Before you mention Springs, when's the last time he played 16 consecutive games?
Green is our most viable option atm, but I haven't really seen enough of him consistantly to get a good feel for him. I know he's done adequately when called upon as a back up. He's also 32 so there won't be much upside from where he stands now short of getting a groove in the scheme.

Here's the deal... Kareem Moore is a free safety... and, reportedly, was seen as having bigger upside than Horton was supposed to have. He can hit (as we have seen when he is on teams), and, reportedly, can cover. Of course, the blossoming of Horton, (who is a strong safety, and would be at a real disadvantage at free), made it possible to use Landry as free... and keeps Moore from getting much playing time to pick up NFL experience. So, it is possible to move Landry up... Moore is not Landry... but he would be fine. There are probably 20 teams that he would have been competing for a starting position on this year.

First, I absolutely agree with this. I think Landry can actually become better at FS, much like Taylor took a bit of time to get comfortable back there, but I also see that LL can also be effective at SS near the line of scrimmage. A multi-talented player like that is a good thing to have. Moore is a hitter, not to the degree of Taylor (not many ever will be) but I also think he'd be fine at FS in "certain" packages with LL at SS. We've recently seen Blache move LL up on occasion, so we know they coaches also see the advantages. I think they like Moore and he'll get his chances.

I'm not saying that is possible, but if it's that likely, why haven't the Skins tried it out yet? If Moore/LL brings more to the table than LL/Horton, then they'd be on the field I'd say, but they're not. Maybe Moore isn't coming along as fast as Horton is and that's why we have the tandem we have now. They even put SPRINGS back there before they put Moore in.

Well, we also haven't seen much from Davis, Thomas or Kelly, even though it's been reported they're pretty damn good. So Zorn not playing Moore yet is not something I'd throw much weight at. Zorn appears to be old school when it comes to rookies.

Remember, Horton really got his chance and starting role primarily due to the loss of Doughty. There's no question Horton made a name for himself and earned respect quickly, but Doughty's absence made the path much easier for Horton.

I believe Landry, Horton and Moore will all be good, so this gives Blache the capability of designing multiple packages. This isn't a bad problem to have.