O Line Possibilities for next yr

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:25 am

I Just wanted to throw out some names to people who are as concerned as I am for next yr. I am talking about the offensive line, because as we have seen this year you can not do anything without one. The Giants have more mediocre receivers than we do (W/O Plax) and they are able to throw all day, its not bc Eli is the 2nd coming of Peyton, its because their O Line gives him time to go through his reads and eventually someone will be open.

If JC had time to go through his reads and make decisions, I think he would be alright. But noone is going to be successful behind our O Line, when you are contantnly pressured and forced to make quick reads all the time.

So I did some research and came up with 2 new names that I would think are possible, and would make a big difference next yr.

I would sign Jordan Gross. This dude is a stud LT/RT for the Panthers. They franchised him this yr but have already said that they will not franchise him again. He has played RT and LT and I think he would fit in nicely at RT with Heyer backing him up. Dude is 27 so he still has plenty of time left. Jansen gets released for cap space.

I would draft Alex Mack. Not sure if anyone has heard of this kid but he is the best center coming out of the draft out of Cal. Many boards have him going in the mid - late 1st, which I think we could steal him at. This kid is huge (6-4, 315) and is a great pass blocker which is something we need.

That would give us a OL of Gross at RT. Thomas at RG, Mack at C, Rhineheart at LG, Samuels at LT. This is assuming that Rhineart has earned the LG spot since Kendall is a free agent. If we can do this we will have added some much needed youth to the offensive line. If we can keep Kendall around as a backup, with Heyer and 1 other I think that might be pretty solid line of starters and depth.

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:37 am

Rabach is not playing that bad.

He's in his 8th season and has missed just ONE game since 2004.

I would concentrate on RT in the high rounds of the draft.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:40 am

I would not mind drafting a RT either, but i think you could sign Gross and give yourself an instant upgrade. I was thinking about using a draft pick at RT but I believe we are so many pieces away that I would go on the other side of the line for that pick

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:45 am

Yeah, but isn't RT more important than center? I mean in general, not just for this team.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:46 am

other side of the line meaning 2 spots down from him at Center(before anyone jumps all over me)

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:50 am

it is, which is why we sign a PROVEN vet to solitify that side. Mack is a stud Center which is the only offensive line help we need. RT and C are the only 2 spots we need help at IMO. We patch those spots up, we will be sitting alot prettier

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:17 pm

Randy Thomas is 32 and in his 10th season. I'm not sure if he has a lot more left in the tank.

Guards are usually not taken in the first rounds of the draft, but it's also a concern.

Other than that, that O-line you mention seems solid. A good combination of experiencie and fresh legs.

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:28 pm

The Giants have more mediocre receivers than we do (W/O Plax) and they are able to throw all day, its not bc Eli is the 2nd coming of Peyton, its because their O Line gives him time to go through his reads and eventually someone will be open.

Such a great and obvious point you made. Thanks!

I would love to get an impact player on either the o-line or d-line early in the draft next year. Most likely we'll draft three WRs though.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:42 pm

El Mexican wrote:Yeah, but isn't RT more important than center? I mean in general, not just for this team.

The blind side tackle is the one you're probably thinking of. For us, it's Mr Samuels, #60. For a left handed QB, it's the RT.

Centers are quite important for an o-line. They either make or assist on pre-snap blocking scheme adjustments. There is also a groove that QB/C have to have to be successful or you get bad snaps/fumbles.

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:59 pm

Yep, knew that Vet.

Was just following up on skins2357 post about RT.

The way Jansen and Heyer have played, I would much rather pick a stud RT through the draft than center. That's why I refered that Rabach has been playing solid and is younger than Jansen. Jut my thoughts, though.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:21 pm

El Mexican wrote:Yep, knew that Vet.

Was just following up on skins2357 post about RT.

The way Jansen and Heyer have played, I would much rather pick a stud RT through the draft than center. That's why I refered that Rabach has been playing solid and is younger than Jansen. Jut my thoughts, though.

My bad, just clarifying. As for lineman, I really think RT and 1 interior lineman (not too hard to get one that can play all the interior slots) should be on the shelf. They were talking quite highly of Rhinehart earlier in the year; hopefully we'll see him start to filter in next year. I think with Heyer in the shadows (I think he'll be fine, just a project guy), we COULD be in decent shape next year with a little luck. I think that Heyer can eventually replace Samuels when the time comes.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:39 pm

Why do we need any replacements along the o-line? Apparently all we need to do is insert Todd Collins and all of our problems are solved. :twisted:

broomboy · Post by **broomboy** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:44 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Why do we need any replacements along the o-line? Apparently all we need to do is insert Todd Collins and all of our problems are solved.

Don't forget Colt Brennan he's the second coming of christ apparently :lol:

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:14 pm

HAHAHAHAAHA....yea apparently this thread is for the poeple who understand its not all on JC's shoulders.

The only reason I would rather use Free Agency to pick up a stud RT is because he is already proven. Yes you have alot of OT's in the draft, but just bc they are highly rated does not mean they will pan out. I would rather get a guy through Free Agency like Jordan Gross who will instantly solitify the right edge of the line without a learning curve.

I really want to draft Alex Mack because he is a TRUE center and a stud. Many of the centers you have today are converted guards and there is a much bigger learning curve. As a true center, he will have less of learning curve than a conversion to center.

IF we can get these 2 guys and Rhineheart steps in for Kendall, we will have drastically re-shaped our O Line and gotten a TON younger

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:29 pm

I really want to draft Alex Mack because he is a TRUE center and a stud. Many of the centers you have today are converted guards and there is a much bigger learning curve. As a true center, he will have less of learning curve than a conversion to center.

You mean if he pans out...

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:11 pm

skins2357 wrote:I Just wanted to throw out some names to people who are as concerned as I am for next yr. I am talking about the offensive line, because as we have seen this year you can not do anything without one. The Giants have more mediocre receivers than we do (W/O Plax) and they are able to throw all day, its not bc Eli is the 2nd coming of Peyton, its because their O Line gives him time to go through his reads and eventually someone will be open.

If JC had time to go through his reads and make decisions, I think he would be alright. But noone is going to be successful behind our O Line, when you are contantnly pressured and forced to make quick reads all the time.

So I did some research and came up with 2 new names that I would think are possible, and would make a big difference next yr.

I would sign Jordan Gross. This dude is a stud LT/RT for the Panthers. They franchised him this yr but have already said that they will not franchise him again. He has played RT and LT and I think he would fit in nicely at RT with Heyer backing him up. Dude is 27 so he still has plenty of time left. Jansen gets released for cap space.

I would draft Alex Mack. Not sure if anyone has heard of this kid but he is the best center coming out of the draft out of Cal. Many boards have him going in the mid - late 1st, which I think we could steal him at. This kid is huge (6-4, 315) and is a great pass blocker which is something we need.

That would give us a OL of Gross at RT. Thomas at RG, Mack at C, Rhineheart at LG, Samuels at LT. This is assuming that Rhineart has earned the LG spot since Kendall is a free agent. If we can do this we will have added some much needed youth to the offensive line. If we can keep Kendall around as a backup, with Heyer and 1 other I think that might be pretty solid line of starters and depth.

I know zip about finances, but, in relation to our on-field needs, this seems the best way to way, if Rhineart is for real. If he's not, I would draft for a LG before a center. Casey's about through, but Pete is through as an effective starter, for sure.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:15 pm

skins2357 wrote:it is, which is why we sign a PROVEN vet to solitify that side. Mack is a stud Center which is the only offensive line help we need. RT and C are the only 2 spots we need help at IMO. We patch those spots up, we will be sitting alot prettier

No. After RT, LG is the weakest link. I'd rather run off tackle than over center and over center is not usually where sacks come from. The LG spot is more important than center.

Gibbs4Life · Post by **Gibbs4Life** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:22 pm

Thomas Jansen Rabach Kendall are all about out of gas.

Yes draft OL, sign Gross, solidify the line in the offseason that should be priority number 1, man we really screwed ourselves trading for Jason Taylor.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:23 am

Agreed that if Rhineheart does not work out then we need to draft LG 1st. We MIGHT be able to snag Duke Robinson as many have him going in the 15-20 range, but others have him as a top 10 pick. All my assumptions were with Rhineheart as our LG, hopefully he will work out.

Randy Thomas is on his last legs, thats correct but I think he has another yr at a high level before we see the falloff we have seen from others this yr.

But I deff think that Jansen, Kendall and Rabach need to go. Alot of ppl are praising Rabach and I agree, he has been fabulous since he has been here. But he is falling off quick. He does not pick up stunts/blitzes and misses protection calls periodically.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:55 pm

skins2357 wrote:Agreed that if Rhineheart does not work out then we need to draft LG 1st. We MIGHT be able to snag Duke Robinson as many have him going in the 15-20 range, but others have him as a top 10 pick. All my assumptions were with Rhineheart as our LG, hopefully he will work out.

Randy Thomas is on his last legs, thats correct but I think he has another yr at a high level before we see the falloff we have seen from others this yr.

But I deff think that Jansen, Kendall and Rabach need to go. Alot of ppl are praising Rabach and I agree, he has been fabulous since he has been here. But he is falling off quick. He does not pick up stunts/blitzes and misses protection calls periodically.

As previously mentioned, most interior lineman don't go that high.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:39 pm

Both Duke Robinson and Alex Mack are ranked as the # 1 Guard and Center and they are both expected to be round 1 picks, with some ppl having Duke Robinson going as high the 6th pick and as low as the 27th pick. Those are just from mock drafts I have seen

ldbrown · Post by **ldbrown** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:25 pm

Gross is the #1 move the skins can make in the off-season. I believe that Pete will be, and has been fine this year. To me Randy is no longer who he once was and Rabach at 286-288lbs can not handle some of the younger, faster and stronger DT and NT. Jansen is a given. With the draft picks that we have there should be a value OG or OC in the First and there is a good chance in the third. Now we do have players that may just need real game time reps like Chad R or Justin G. that youth to the o-line now.

Just think but, the #2 off-season move could and should be to sign D. Hall to long-term contact. Sign Tank Johnson!

Why, because he is a force in the middle as a DT not NT like he is playing in Dallas. In the 4-3 were he belongs he be great. He would add talent, depth and attitude to that line.

Lastly we need to replace some of our draft picks we lost by trade. I say the only player we could trade and would bring us a qualty pick or two would be Chirs Samuel. At 32 next year he will be on the downside of his career with maybe two good left on a line changing around him. I know some will think I'm crazy, but for the longer term future this is one of the chioce we have.

DRAFT PROSPECTS
2009 OG to watch

Duke Robinson
Herman Johnson
Andy Kemp

Late rounds
Cedric Dockery
kraig Urbik
Ray Feinga

2009 OC to watch

Alex Mack
Max Unger
Jonathan Luiga

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:49 pm

I like the idea of getting a top flight RT in FA or the draft and getting a dominant guard (left or right - don't care) The area on the OL that should be last on the upgrade list is C. Rabach has been the best of the OL this year. Except for the 2nd Dallas game he has been playing at a PB level. I don't know what was wrong with him for that game, but Canty just abused him.

Samuals is the best OL on the team when healthy, bu tIw ouldn't count on a heathy year out of him ever again.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:47 am

Sorry skinschic but i disagree. Rabach has been solid in the past, but this yr he has lost his step. He continually fails to pick up blitzes and stunts. The protection calls start with the center and work there way down the line with everyone picking up someone. If you watch blitz pick-ups or stunts, they all come from up the middle or in between Tomas and Rabach. Thomas usually has a man head up on him and Rabach usually is left open, but he still fails to pick up the blitzers. And thats only on runs.

On runs Rabach fails to get to the next level to block linebackers. If you watch him you will notice how long it takes him to get there, and by that time the linebacker has already filled the hole or gap he is responsible for. The only interior lineman who does a good job of this is Thomas IMO. The tackles dont usually have to worry about that getting to the LBs as they block the DE.

Rabach has been a great pick-up for the last few yrs, but his age is catching up with him and slowing him down. It is time for a replacement there.

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:56 am

ldbrown wrote:Lastly we need to replace some of our draft picks we lost by trade. I say the only player we could trade and would bring us a qualty pick or two would be Chirs Samuel. At 32 next year he will be on the downside of his career with maybe two good left on a line changing around him. I know some will think I'm crazy, but for the longer term future this is one of the chioce we have.

There is no way we get value from trading Samuels, considering how much salcap number we'd have to absorb for the trade. You'd trade him for draft picks and have us eat his enormous salcap number next year (I think it's 9 million right now - IF we kept him-, and trading him would accelerate the rest of it)?

Samuels is playing on one leg right now, and is playing pretty well. He's had a history of being extremely durable (70 something straight starts until he missed a game this year). According to the medical reports, the MRI showed no structural damage to his knee, but it certainly needs surgery after the season. Therefore, I'm not sure why you conclude he's only good for another year or two?

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O Line Possibilities for next yr

O Line Possibilities for next yr

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