Bailout bill fails; Dow plunges

[KazooSkinsFan]

When liberals, the experts in the field of name calling, do it we hear crickets from Quebec ...

But the bottom line is you talk about ... Quebecits ...

What are those?

Quebecits are French Canadians who hate everyone who's not both and aren't sure about the ones who are.

... and still you can't tell me anything that's different about any of you in the various Left forms other then high level generalizations. Just like Fios, cleg, welch, and JSPB22 decline to do.

They are wise enough not to even try to explain shades of gray. You might be an avid Skins fan but when it comes to policy issues, your views are nothing but manifestations of alienation and frustration.

We've been down this road. Liberals ignore facts, logic, consequence of their actions and personal responsibility because they are in a "community." To be separated from that support group think process is clearly "alienation" and "frustration." That is then "projected" into anyone separated from the liberal hive as the Conservative Christians tell me about separation from the Church. I get it from both sides. But your repeated, repeatedly, repeating of that faulty assumption yet once again is starting to weaken my resolve. I'll be hugging trees and wearing a save the whales T-Shirt in no time, thanks!

Kazoo might be suprised to learn he actually believes, apparently, in the doctrine of Neo-liberalism propagated by Reagan and Thatcher. The recent economic crises was perpetuated by the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act in 1999 under Clinton, something the banking industry had been trying to do since the 1980's. No banking oversight leads to what we are seeing now. Henry Paulson=crook.

Once again, I believe what "I" think. I neither accept nor reject views because of "who" said them or the "label" applied to the ideology. But thanks for that insight.

[Deadskins]

I neither accept nor reject views because of "who" said them or the "label" applied to the ideology.

[Redskin in Canada]

When liberals, the experts in the field of name calling, do it we hear crickets from Quebec ...

But the bottom line is you talk about ... Quebecits ...

What are those?

Quebecits are French Canadians who hate everyone who's not both and aren't sure about the ones who are.

Quebecits???

As opposed to Canadicits or Americits??

To be quoted from now on as a manifestation of a fundamental lack of general culture and education. They say that ignorance breeds prejudice and THIS IS WHY you all parents should make sure that your children stay in school.

I'll be hugging trees and wearing a save the whales T-Shirt in no time, thanks!

For once, you would be taking on two good causes.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I neither accept nor reject views because of "who" said them or the "label" applied to the ideology.

Of course, since I'm not a liberal this can't possibly be true. Covered ground.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Quebecits???

As opposed to Canadicits or Americits??

To be quoted from now on as a manifestation of a fundamental lack of general culture and education

On that we agree, my point precisely on the attitude of French Canadians.

They say that ignorance breeds prejudice and THIS IS WHY you all parents should make sure that your children stay in school.

Well, since I have two Master Degrees, your "solution" is dubious. And since high school they were all government schools too. Public High School, Maryland (Bachelor's), Virginia Tech and Michigan. So if your assertion is true, maybe you should question your belief in government dominated education.

[Deadskins]

I neither accept nor reject views because of "who" said them or the "label" applied to the ideology.

Of course, since I'm not a liberal this can't possibly be true. Covered ground.

Thanks for justifying the rolling eyes with your response.

[Redskin in Canada]

And since high school they were all government schools too. Public High School, Maryland (Bachelor's), Virginia Tech and Michigan. So if your assertion is true, maybe you should question your belief in government dominated education.

You have convinced me that in this case government led education is BANKRUPT.

By the way, do not show the list of schools you have attended. They might be tempted to phone you to collect a degree or two back.

Quebecits ...

[Countertrey]

Let's see how the international financial markets react to the result of the election!

Asia is first and Europe second before the Dow and NASDAQ have a chance.

Does it matter? Regardless the response of the "international markets", it will be the response of the Dow and NASDAQ that count. I anticipate a major hit if Obama wins, as folks who's stocks are still worth more than when they were purchased, start dumping to avoid anticipated future cap.gains taxes.

Yes... people do stupid things.

Keep in mind that financial markets are fully aware of the news and the polls. Known information is already priced into the stock. A change will come due to the election only if something unexpected happens either way.

It is a fact that the market dropped as it became increasingly clear Obama would win. Though that's still not "proof" that Obama caused it because you would have to know what WOULD have happened if it appeared McCain would win. It could be the market would have dropped more due to other news and in fact had less drop because of Obama. I doubt it, but it's logically possible.

People make that mistake a lot with the markets, thinking the market is unaware of what's going on and misinterpreting the results because they think it'll react to things like an election as if they don't know the results and interpreting a single cause to trends when there are many.

Dow off 461 as I write this at 3:30 EST. I get your point

As I said in my post, people do stupid things... including people who play in the market.

[Deadskins]

Let's see how the international financial markets react to the result of the election!

Asia is first and Europe second before the Dow and NASDAQ have a chance.

Does it matter? Regardless the response of the "international markets", it will be the response of the Dow and NASDAQ that count. I anticipate a major hit if Obama wins, as folks who's stocks are still worth more than when they were purchased, start dumping to avoid anticipated future cap.gains taxes.

Yes... people do stupid things.

Keep in mind that financial markets are fully aware of the news and the polls. Known information is already priced into the stock. A change will come due to the election only if something unexpected happens either way.

It is a fact that the market dropped as it became increasingly clear Obama would win. Though that's still not "proof" that Obama caused it because you would have to know what WOULD have happened if it appeared McCain would win. It could be the market would have dropped more due to other news and in fact had less drop because of Obama. I doubt it, but it's logically possible.

People make that mistake a lot with the markets, thinking the market is unaware of what's going on and misinterpreting the results because they think it'll react to things like an election as if they don't know the results and interpreting a single cause to trends when there are many.

Dow off 461 as I write this at 3:30 EST. I get your point

And you're convinced this is due to the election results?

[KazooSkinsFan]

And since high school they were all government schools too. Public High School, Maryland (Bachelor's), Virginia Tech and Michigan. So if your assertion is true, maybe you should question your belief in government dominated education.

You have convinced me that in this case government led education is BANKRUPT.

By the way, do not show the list of schools you have attended. They might be tempted to phone you to collect a degree or two back.

That's mean, I'm going to cry.

Quebecits ...

I love it. When liberals make fun of other people, they don't have a sense of humor, and when other people make fun of liberals, they don't have a sense of humor. Liberals of course are the self appointed arbiters of all! And yet liberals never get around to thinking anyone making fun of liberals is funny. Fios keeps mentioning that too. I'm feeling very alienated right now as I am CLEARLY estranged from the liberal religious collective.

So anyway, I think Quebecit's is funny. I do appreciate your reaction to it, makes it all the more enjoyable! Though you can rest assured, none of the liberals do. The Liberal religion is above all to a liberal. And best of all was how you bit and ASKED me what it meant! I was trying to figure out how to work that in discretely, and you yelled up from the pit having already fallen through the branches.

[PulpExposure]

I love you, but man kaz, you are wierd. I seriously wonder who qualifies as a non-liberal to you? Can you give a few examples?

[KazooSkinsFan]

I love you, but man kaz, you are wierd. I seriously wonder who qualifies as a non-liberal to you? Can you give a few examples?

Hmm, good question.

Irn-Bru's not, but he is a liberal apologist, does that count? OK, I suppose it doesn't and I need someone else.

Thinking, thinking. I am thinking I need 'living' people too.

OK, here are people I think are completely NOT liberal:

- Harry Browne and the Libertarian Party. Opps the apologist thing

OK, here are a few:

- Kaz
- Charles Adams
- John Linder
- Chuck Baldwin
- Ron Paul
- Dick Cheney
- Pat Buchanan's nuts but not liberal
- Rush Limbaugh/Neal Boortz/Sean Hannity/Laura Ingram - All but Rush are social conservatives, but they do believe in small fiscal government and neither makes them liberal. Ironic that the biggest names in talk radio are Right and yet the Republican party is so liberal.

I thought Jim McDermott wasn't, but he voted for the bailout and is off the list. The Liberal. Milton Friedman wasn't was but recently failed the alive thing. Other then that, there are many, many more non-liberals. I could probably make this list TWICE as long. If I work at it. For a long time. I think...

[Redskin in Canada]

OK, here are a few:

- Kaz
- Charles Adams
- John Linder
- Chuck Baldwin
- Ron Paul
- Dick Cheney
- Pat Buchanan's nuts but not liberal
- Rush Limbaugh/Neal Boortz/Sean Hannity/Laura Ingram -

...

I could probably make this list TWICE as long. If I work at it. For a long time. I think...

I am SURE some above would object to be put in the same garbage can among that crowd which includes racists, demagogues and warmongers.

[Countertrey]

Let's see how the international financial markets react to the result of the election!

Asia is first and Europe second before the Dow and NASDAQ have a chance.

Does it matter? Regardless the response of the "international markets", it will be the response of the Dow and NASDAQ that count. I anticipate a major hit if Obama wins, as folks who's stocks are still worth more than when they were purchased, start dumping to avoid anticipated future cap.gains taxes.

Yes... people do stupid things.

Keep in mind that financial markets are fully aware of the news and the polls. Known information is already priced into the stock. A change will come due to the election only if something unexpected happens either way.

It is a fact that the market dropped as it became increasingly clear Obama would win. Though that's still not "proof" that Obama caused it because you would have to know what WOULD have happened if it appeared McCain would win. It could be the market would have dropped more due to other news and in fact had less drop because of Obama. I doubt it, but it's logically possible.

People make that mistake a lot with the markets, thinking the market is unaware of what's going on and misinterpreting the results because they think it'll react to things like an election as if they don't know the results and interpreting a single cause to trends when there are many.

Dow off 461 as I write this at 3:30 EST. I get your point

And you're convinced this is due to the election results?

Just a pure coincidence, I'm sure. Has nothing to do with Obama's stated intention to re-establish Cap Gains taxes at the old, oppressive rates.

Personally, I've always been in favor of punishing success... makes em work harder...

[Redskin in Canada]

Personally, I've always been in favor of punishing success... makes em work harder...

It appears as if, more than ever, a bipartisan effortwill be made.

You may be judging prematurely based on the remaining heat of the election.

[Deadskins]

Let's see how the international financial markets react to the result of the election!

Asia is first and Europe second before the Dow and NASDAQ have a chance.

Does it matter? Regardless the response of the "international markets", it will be the response of the Dow and NASDAQ that count. I anticipate a major hit if Obama wins, as folks who's stocks are still worth more than when they were purchased, start dumping to avoid anticipated future cap.gains taxes.

Yes... people do stupid things.

Keep in mind that financial markets are fully aware of the news and the polls. Known information is already priced into the stock. A change will come due to the election only if something unexpected happens either way.

It is a fact that the market dropped as it became increasingly clear Obama would win. Though that's still not "proof" that Obama caused it because you would have to know what WOULD have happened if it appeared McCain would win. It could be the market would have dropped more due to other news and in fact had less drop because of Obama. I doubt it, but it's logically possible.

People make that mistake a lot with the markets, thinking the market is unaware of what's going on and misinterpreting the results because they think it'll react to things like an election as if they don't know the results and interpreting a single cause to trends when there are many.

Dow off 461 as I write this at 3:30 EST. I get your point

And you're convinced this is due to the election results?

Just a pure coincidence, I'm sure. Has nothing to do with Obama's stated intention to re-establish Cap Gains taxes at the old, oppressive rates.

And I suppose the Dow plunges prior to the election were because investors saw the writing on the wall? Had McCain won, the Dow would have soared to record highs.

[Redskin in Canada]

Stocks suffer for 2nd day
Dow sheds 443 points, bringing its two-day decline to 929 points, as recession fears accelerate.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks slumped for a second straight session Thursday, bringing the Dow's losses to more than 900 points since Election Day, as fears of a prolonged recession sent investors running for the exits.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) lost around 443 points, or 4.9%, according to early tallies. The blue-chip indicator had fallen as much as 502 points in the late afternoon.

The Standard & Poor's 500 (SPX) index lost 5% and the Nasdaq composite (COMP) declined by 4.3%.

The Dow slumped nearly 500 points Wednesday as President-elect Barack Obama's historic victory gave way to worries about the economy he inherits. Those same worries continued to drag on stocks Thursday.

"Everything is so dismal right now, It's just an endless flow of bad news and no one wants to buy," said Dave Rovelli, managing director of U.S. equity trading at Canaccord Adams.

Rovelli said that the steady stream of bad economic reports and weak corporate earnings and forecasts was taking its toll. In particular, the number of companies announcing layoffs was unnerving investors, especially ahead of Friday's big monthly jobs report.

October retail sales from the nation's chain stores were mostly abysmal, with some discounters such as Wal-Mart Stores escaping the fray. The housing market collapse, credit crunch and strained labor market have all taken their toll on consumers' wallets. Even the recent retreat in oil and gas prices has not had much of a positive impact on consumer spending.

"People are realizing that the recession is going to drag on until at least the end of 2009," he said.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/06/markets ... 2008110615

[Countertrey]

And I suppose the Dow plunges prior to the election were because investors saw the writing on the wall? Had McCain won, the Dow would have soared to record highs.

10% over 2 days...

Yup. just a coincidence. Actually, I know that it's not all Obama... not even mostly Obama... but...

Any moron knows that if he sells his stock now, he will pay 15% in Cap Gains. If he waits until the Dems fully run the show, he will pay 20% or more. Hoover did this in the 20's... and we know where that led.

Unless he comes out and makes a clear statement that reassures investors, this will continue to accelerate.

I have no illusions about what a McCain election would have done... but I doubt you would have seen this dip.

[Deadskins]

Any moron knows that if he sells his stock now, he will pay 15% in Cap Gains. If he waits until the Dems fully run the show, he will pay 20% or more. Hoover did this in the 20's... and we know where that led.

Man CT, you are old; I wasn't around in the 20's to know Hoover's stance on capital gains taxes.

[Deadskins]

I love you, but man kaz, you are wierd. I seriously wonder who qualifies as a non-liberal to you? Can you give a few examples?

Hmm, good question.

Irn-Bru's not, but he is a liberal apologist

So when...

I don't even see why liberal is a dirty word. I use it almost more frequently than any other to describe myself. That's right: I am a liberal.

back on page 12 of this thread, you didn't believe him?

[Redskin in Canada]

Unless he comes out and makes a clear statement that reassures investors, this will continue to accelerate.

I hear thathe will make an appointment today or tomorrow at the latest precisely to try to address this. He is choosing from among four finalists.

Let's wait and see.

[Countertrey]

Personally, I've always been in favor of punishing success... makes em work harder...

It appears as if, more than ever, a bipartisan effortwill be made.

You may be judging prematurely based on the remaining heat of the election.

Perhaps. However, professionally, I am aware that the most accurate predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Unfortunately, all I have to go on, really, is his votes in the Senate, and whom he has kept for associates. Not terribly comforting to a man who believes the Constitution means what it says.

Statements that include "redistribute wealth" and "turning selfishness into a virtue" and "paying higher taxes is patriotic" and the ever lowering threshold of the definition of rich which were NEVER challenged by Obama's legion, nor the press are not comforting.

Additionally, the tossing of a few token RINO's into his administration does not provide any reassurance...

[KazooSkinsFan]

I don't even see why liberal is a dirty word. I use it almost more frequently than any other to describe myself. That's right: I am a liberal.

back on page 12 of this thread, you didn't believe him?

Wow, have you actually read ANY of the discussion so far?

The question was who "Kaz" considers a liberal, which I'm referring to the people who are advancing socialism in this country. Since we clearly are rapidly going into socialism, wow, I think this country is dominated right now by socialists. You're playing a word game that he considers himself a philosophical "liberal," which is a different use of the same word because unlike the liberals who agreed they liked his definition, Irn-Bru says that's his ideology without advancing socialism and socialists.

So if you want my addendum, I would consider Irn-Bru and me both liberal by his definition, but not the cluster with their hands down their pants who liked the words and do the opposite because they think government, lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats have a chance in heck of doing that. No one who cares about people would chain them to government.

[KazooSkinsFan]

OK, here are a few:

- Kaz
- Charles Adams
- John Linder
- Chuck Baldwin
- Ron Paul
- Dick Cheney
- Pat Buchanan's nuts but not liberal
- Rush Limbaugh/Neal Boortz/Sean Hannity/Laura Ingram -

...

I could probably make this list TWICE as long. If I work at it. For a long time. I think...

I am SURE some above would object to be put in the same garbage can among that crowd which includes racists, demagogues and warmongers.

So you're arguing they would consider themselves liberals, which is what the list is, or did you whiff completely on the point?

People who have/had two legs:

- Adolf Hitler
- Joseph Stalin
- Kim Jung Mengally Ill
- Dick Cheney
- George W Bush
- Jeffrey Daumer
- Son of Sam
- RIC

Wow, what a slam, huh?

[Redskin in Canada]

So you're arguing they would consider themselves liberals, which is what the list is, or did you whiff completely on the point?

No, I am saying that competent people such as Ron Paul, with whom some might agree or disagree, should not be included in the same garbage can with some of the others.

If I had run out of the arguments, I would say something like:

People who have/had two legs:

- Adolf Hitler
- Joseph Stalin
- Kim Jung Mengally Ill
- Dick Cheney
- George W Bush
- Jeffrey Daumer
- Son of Sam
- RIC

Wow, what a slam, huh?

or something like:

People who walk in -four- legs:

- Kaz.

Wow, what a slam, huh?

But quite frankly, this kind of dumb statements do not belong in this thread. I am trying to focus on the topic of the thread and not on who is a "true" conservative or not in -your- view. You can open a different thread for that.