Rams winning pass was P.I.

[Gibbs4Life]

I just watched the play on tivo in slow motion, the ball was underthrown but the Rams WR put his hand on Torrence's back and shoved him forward. That is illegal and called pass interference.

[absinthe1023]

I'm glad someone finally mentioned this. I thought he pushed off as well, but that kind of call only seems to go AGAINST the 'Skins. Also, Torrence is known to be a below-average DB, so no ref this side of Ed Hochuli is going to give him the benefit of the doubt in a situation like that.

[Champsturf]

I just watched the play on tivo in slow motion, the ball was underthrown but the Rams WR put his hand on Torrence's back and shoved him forward. That is illegal and called pass interference.

I agree with you, but if you can't even find the ball, it just shows how bad you really are and don't deserve marginal calls.

[die cowboys die]

i have also been waiting for someone to mention this. the PI was very obvious during the live broadcast of the play and definitely not debatable- as you said, if you watch the play there can be no debate, he put his hands on torrence's back and drove his weight into him for at least a few steps.

i think the reason he got away with it is because he was "smart" (read: unethical) enough to cheat "quietly"-- what i mean is, though he was clearly pushing aggressively, he didn't extend his arms, kept his elbows bent, and i guess the refs in the NFL have finally fallen to such incomprehensibly pathetic depths of immeasurable idiocy and flagrant incompetence that they're incapable of understanding that yes, you can in fact push somebody without extending your arms!!!!

except, i don't even know if i think that matters- in accordance with what absinthe1023 points out, at this point in time it can only be the most impossibly ignorant of human beings who doesn't realize it is a FACT that the refs have a very specific agenda that they are not even bothering to TRY and hide anymore, not even bothering to pretend that they are making any attempt whatsoever to call games based on the reality they see in front of them, and in fact are now more often than not actually deliberately trying to INTERFERE and ALTER the outcome of the games. it has gotten worse every year, but it used to just be (or at least seem to be) a steadily increasing degree of pure incompetence. then about 3 or 4 years ago, a few games started popping up here and there where there were so so many impossibly bad calls (or non-calls) that ALL went against one team [e.g., Redskins @ Tampa- regular season 2005] that it became inarguably apparent that the games were being being deliberately fixed (or at least "influenced"). but still, it was few and far between enough to not arouse suspicion of a league-wide agenda.

sadly, anybody who witnessed the march of the 2007 patriots "undefeated" regular season was alerted to the scope of the agenda. as the league's own network (NFLN) devoted the vast majority of their air-time to lining up on their knees to suck off the patriots during an endless showcase of "Path to Perfection" propaganda, the refs were so utterly emasculated by the league that even though randy moss actually realized what was going on and KNEW "oh my god, for the time being, i am Above The Law. i don't even have to ATTEMPT to make any kind of legitimate effort to beat my defender for these jump balls-- i am completely allowed to literally shove them to the ground just before the ball arrives, and then simply catch it, uncontested, while they try to get back up. and i can do this even if i am standing on the side of the endzone no more than 2 FEET from the ref who is watching me on this play."
which, getting back to the original point, is exactly what randy did to leigh torrence last year, no more than 2 feet from the ref staring right at moss as he shoved torrence to the ground.

i hope no one out there is kidding themselves into thinking that the officials are actually just THAT stupid, that inept. sorry, that is literally impossible. because anyone that stupid would also be too stupid to remember to breathe, and would have suffocated to death many years ago.


now, do i think the blown non-call that literally handed the game to the rams was on purpose? no, i think that was just another example of the shockingly rampant incompetence of NFL officials.
and why haven't i gone completely through the roof about this call? because i hardly even cared, we deserved to lose that game anyway. well, not the defense. despite that one lucky play they got at the very end, the defense once again proved that it is quite possibly the best defense in the NFC (it would be for sure, and might even be the best in the NFL, if they would actually hold onto every interception they drop).
but the offense never shouldl've let the game have to come down to that last play in the first place.

this was green bay and tampa from last year all over again. zorn has earned 1 game benefit of the doubt here. i have confidence that instead of retreating into a frightened shell like Grampa Joe, he can shake the "oopsies" out of these guys and get them back on track. a 2nd game in a row like this next week will leave us no choice but to sadly realize and declare "same old redskins".
here's hoping zorn picks up where gibbs left off and gets us past the maddening inconsistency. gibbs brought us from complete dysfunction to the threshold of greatness. zorn has the right attitude to help push us through.


(of course, if we lose to the browns next week, i will insist that he be fired immediately and all of our players cut so we can start over from scratch).

[VetSkinsFan]

I just watched the play on tivo in slow motion, the ball was underthrown but the Rams WR put his hand on Torrence's back and shoved him forward. That is illegal and called pass interference.

I agree with you, but if you can't even find the ball, it just shows how bad you really are and don't deserve marginal calls.

There's a reason he's sporting the Redskins jersey every Sunday and we're sitting here looking at the Burgundy and Gold website. Cut the professional football player some slack.

[DEHog]

For me one of the most impressive things about our 4 victories has been that in all 4 Jason has taken a knee. When you do that you don’t make yourself vulnerable to bad calls, not that I think it was a bad call….I don’t. I thought we got away with a mugging on a third down pass late in the third quarter. The point is there are always going to be bad calls in the course of a game, some that go your way and some that don’t. The key is to not put your team in a situation where it’s perceived that it cost you the game.

[BossHog]

Since 90% of dcd's post has nothing to do with the Redskins, I created a new thread in Around The League for anyone to wax poetic about referee conspiracy theories...

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28201

Thanks.

[gibbs4president]

I just went back and watched the play a few times, and I just don't see the pass interference that you're talking about. The ball was underthrown, so both players had to adjust. It would have been a tough play for Torrence to make -- and he didn't make it.

[JansenFan]

It looked like PI to me... but I was five rows from the top of the exact opposite corner of the field.

From what I saw, it looked like the receiver got the inside track (Torrance can't let that happen, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because I think he's been solid, especially for a fourth corner) but it looked to me like the receiver turned towards Torrance, pushed off, spun around and made an amazing diving catch.

[RedskinsFreak]

I just went back and watched the play a few times, and I just don't see the pass interference that you're talking about. The ball was underthrown, so both players had to adjust. It would have been a tough play for Torrence to make -- and he didn't make it.

The simple truth is the advantage goes to the one who first realizes the underthrow and slows down to adjust.

[HighOnTheHogs]

The Redskins didn't do anything to win the game, and blaming one play or one player or one bad call or one non-call is looking for excuses. If this had been the only questionable call or decision or play involving the Redskins in this game then it would be an issue. It wasn't and it isn't.

Good teams shouldn't allow bad teams an opportunity to win on the last drive or the last play of a game. The Redskins allowed the Rams to do exactly that by not playing up to their abilities for the first 55+ minutes of the game. The Redskins deserved to lose the game and they did lose the game.

[LORD GIBBS]

[quote="BossHog"]Since 90% of dcd's post has nothing to do with the Redskins, I created a new thread in Around The League for anyone to wax poetic about referee conspiracy theories...

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28201

Thanks. Dang Boss yal pick alot here it is redskins info right??????????? Bad call that helps the other team win is Redskins Info

[gspdark1]

Well, let's go a little deeper. Why was a double-safety blitz called on 3rd-and-13? If at least 1 one safety was over the top, the Torrence pay would never have happened, I think.

[VetSkinsFan]

Well, let's go a little deeper. Why was a double-safety blitz called on 3rd-and-13? If at least 1 one safety was over the top, the Torrence pay would never have happened, I think.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Let's move on. I have.

[Redskin in Canada]

9 out of 10 times that play will NOT be called pass interference.

Torrance should have known better and either played deeper, smarter or gotten help from a safety. He ran his mouth and he got burned. No one play is responsible for this loss though.

Difficult to play conspiracy theories against the refs in time when coaches can challenge many plays.

[Countertrey]

He ran his mouth and he got burned.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Haslett went to Saunder's play card after Torrance's little punk attack, and said... "I want to go right at him... and, if it gets us the win, all the better." It would have been the safe call, anyway, as clearly, Torrance is the weak link among the DB's.

[Gibbs4Life]

We fumbled that game away, so I'm not saying we should've won, just that there was a last second blown call that technically cost us the game. I think the reason it wasn't called was that Torrence never attempted to find the ball therefore he was just in the way of the guy who was finding the ball, the rams wr pushed leigh square in the back and gained position that is p.i. but I doubt we'll see nfl network do an expose' on our behalf.

[VetSkinsFan]

Torrance should have known better and either played deeper, smarter or gotten help from a safety

Since when do reserve corners call coverages? Since he got burned on an underthrown ball, exactly how much deeper do you want him to play?

Here's your safety help.

Moore was assigned to cover running back Steven Jackson, but Jackson stayed in to block. In that case, Moore was supposed to blitz, but he neither blitzed nor raced back to help in coverage.

Here's Smoot defending Torrence

Cornerback Fred Smoot, who wasn't on the field on the play because he had injured his groin, said Torrence was in a tough spot because the pass from Marc Bulger was underthrown.

"The underthrown ball - that's the most dangerous ball to a cornerback," Smoot said. "[The receiver] can judge it, and we can't. Nine times out of 10 it's gonna be a [defensive] pass interference or he's going to have a better chance to catch the ball than we do."

And here's Jerry Gray, the cornerbacks coach, on Torrence on that play:

Cornerbacks coach Jerry Gray also declined to blame Torrence, whose tip of a Kurt Warner bomb intended for Steve Breaston led to a critical interception by Carlos Rogers in the 24-17 victory over the Arizona Cardinals on Sept. 21.

"When you let teams that you're supposed to [beat] hang around, one play can beat you. And guess what? That's the one play," Gray said. "Leigh had him covered good. If the ball had been thrown correctly, he probably makes the play. ... Kareem was supposed to be a blitzer. Is [Jackson] coming or not coming out? You pick up tips from film. Young guys learn from mistakes. Hopefully this one won't show anymore."

Link to article

[frankcal20]

I don't fault anyone on that play. It just happened and it wasn't that play that cost us the game.

[ChocolateMilk]

the only thing im gonna say about that play, is that it sucked... it sucked reeeal bad

[Redskin in Canada]

Torrance should have known better and either played deeper, smarter or gotten help from a safety

Since when do reserve corners call coverages? Since he got burned on an underthrown ball, exactly how much deeper do you want him to play?

Here's your safety help.

Moore was assigned to cover running back Steven Jackson, but Jackson stayed in to block. In that case, Moore was supposed to blitz, but he neither blitzed nor raced back to help in coverage.

1. deepER as in having a chance to turn and react to the pass.

2. Thank you very much Moore. Now we know why Bulger had enough time.

3. Torrance still ran his mouth and he did not walk the walk.

[VetSkinsFan]

Torrance should have known better and either played deeper, smarter or gotten help from a safety

Since when do reserve corners call coverages? Since he got burned on an underthrown ball, exactly how much deeper do you want him to play?

Here's your safety help.

Moore was assigned to cover running back Steven Jackson, but Jackson stayed in to block. In that case, Moore was supposed to blitz, but he neither blitzed nor raced back to help in coverage.

1. deepER as in having a chance to turn and react to the pass.

2. Thank you very much Moore. Now we know why Bulger had enough time.

3. Torrance still ran his mouth and he did not walk the walk.

The rest of the quote more adequately addressed that, but I guess it was conveniently left out. Career in politics?

[Deadskins]

First of all, no one knows what Haslett and Torrence said to each other. At least I haven't seen it posted anywhere. Maybe Haslett said something to him first, or Leigh was trying to get him to reign in Incognito. Why is everyone assuming Leigh was acting like a punk and taunting the opposing coach?