PROBLEM: scheme or quarterback?

[RayNAustin]

Okay boys and girls, remember to address the post...not the poster.

Having said that:

Campbell is not the only person on this offense that is learning a new system. That's the difference between he, and a good deal of the other "more successful" QBs in the league.

He has not had the luxury of entering a system where he was the only one who had to learn it.

I agree. That's an outstanding point. I think Zorn may possibly jump on JC quicker than he would a receiver because he is also the QB coach. What if the receiver runs the wrong route OR doesn't make the same read in coverage that the QB does (I'm assuming they read the coverage and adjust their routes). It would be hard for me to believe that EVERY other skill player EXCEPT for the QB has got the scheme down. So I think the answer to the thread question is, it's a little of both.

Well, it looked like Moss learned enough about the system to be wide open (by three steps) on a deep post, while Campbell danced around deciding what to do.

[Thundersloth]

Skinsfreak,

Al Saunders is a Don "Air" Coryell disciple, so he does run a version of the WCO.

I thought you were talking about my comment about a Dumb coach not wanting the job in Washington. So being able to talk to a guy coaching in the league who hears the rumblings from other coaches not wanting to work in Washington or Oakland was why I mentioned it.

I LOVE my team, but you can't tell me that the front office has not made some bad decisoins and the bad decisions just seem to keep coming too. I'm frustrated by the fact that we've had more losing seasons than winning ones over the past 9 years.

I just need somewhere to vent. The fact of the matter is, JC is currently our starting QB, JZ is our Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator and QB Coach. Too much stuff for a rookie head coach to handle effectively. Nothing can be done about that now.

I would imagine Zorn is going to try to run a similar system as Holmgren did in Seattle. You are correct in saying the WCO passes to the backs but from what I saw against the Giants it didn't look like we were trying to do that.

As far as JC having his most success in a WCO, I would hope so, since he started the most games of his NFL career in that system. Saunders had to pare down his 700 page playbook to help JC be successful and he had what, like 2600-2700 yards passing. Is JZ doing the same thing I wonder, trying to pare down the playbook.

[RayNAustin]

Most of the QB's he mentioned actually sat for their first two seasons in the NFL (one of those "facts" Ray is always espousing), even though he claims they started right away.

Start reading or stop lying. I listed each one, and when they started and what their numbers were. Here it is again:

Tom Brady drafted 6th round. Did not play in rookie year. Second year, started 14 games, 2,843 18 TD. Third year (second year starting) 3,764 yards 28 TD

Ben Roethlisberger Played in his rookie year after Maddox and Batch went down with injuries. Started 3rd string in camp, and wound up the rookie of the year. Took Pittsburgh to the Super Bowl in his second year. Rookie 2,621 yards 17 TD in 13 games

Peyton Manning - Started his rookie year and compiled 3,743 yards and 26 TD. His second year, 4,135 yards and 26 TD

Tony Romo - Romo was signed by Dallas in 2003. No pass attempts ZERO in 2003, 2004, 2005. Wade Phillips took over as Coach and Romo saw his first action in 2006, (started 10 games) and ended the year with a 95.1 passer rating 2903 yards and 19 TD. At the end of 2006, Jason Garrett was hired as the new Offensive coach and installed his system. Romo was even better under the new offense and finished with a 97.4 rating, 4,211 yards and 36 TD (3 times the number of TDs Campbell had THREE TIMES. TOTAL GAME EXPERIENCE 26 games or 6 games more than Jason Campbell. Furthermore, Romo had 10 games in one system, and 16 games in another, whereas Campbell played all 20 games under Saunder's one system.

Jeff Garcia First year 2544 yards 11 TD. His second year 4,278 yards and 31 TD

Kurt Warner His rookie year he only had 11 pass attempts. His second year he threw for 4,353 yards and 41 TD

Philip Rivers 2004-2005 no games started, and had 30 total pass attempts in 2 years. 2006 he started all 16 games, 3,388 yards 22 TD. 2007 Norv Turner came in (new system) he had 3,152 and 21 TD.

Mark Brunell Drafted by Green Bay 1993. Packers 1993-1994 no games started, 27 total pass attempts. 1995 First year with Jaguars, 10 games, 2,168 yards 15 TD. Second year Jaguars 4,367 yards 19 TD.

Marc Bulger Rookie year, no games, no pass attempts. Second year, 7 games 1,836 yards 12 TD. Third year (7 games experience) 3,845 yards and 22 TD.

Carson Palmer Rookie year did not play. Second year (13 games) 2,897 yards 18 TD. Third year (13 games experience) 3,836 yards 32 TD

Chad Pennington 2000-2001 had 25 total pass attempts over 2 years. Third year (first 12 games starting) 3,120 yards 22 TD

Here's what you actually posted on page 8 of this very thread:

Tom Brady, first year, instantly successful

Ben Roethlisberger first year 98.1

Peyton Manning, second year 90.7

Tony Romo first year 95.1

Jeff Garcia second year 97.6

Kurt Warner first year 109.2

Philip Rivers first year (4 games experience) 92.0

Mark Brunell first year (2 games experience) 82.0

Marc Bulger first year 101.5

Carson Palmer second year (13 games experience) 101.1

Chad Pennington first full year (3 games experience) 104.2

Steve McNair first year (4 games experience) 90.6

Now, who's making stuff up again?

Same list of QB's, just more information about them than the original post that refutes the baseless claim that "Most of the QB's he mentioned actually sat for their first two seasons in the NFL"

Of the list of 11 QBs 3 started in the rookie year, 4 started in their 2nd year, the rest waited 2 or more seasons. According to my math, most of them started in their rookie or second year and did not sit on the bench for 2 years.

I also stated 1st year starting; 2nd year starting......

Campbell sat for 1 1/2 seasons, and a lot of good it did him, huh?

Let's knock off the word games.

I'm through debating the same issue over and over when you want to play word games or debate the difference between happy and glad......you said glad....you didn't say happy, yada yada yada

[Deadskins]

Skinsfreak,

Al Saunders is a Don "Air" Coryell disciple, so he does run a version of the WCO.

As much as I hate to reference Dr. d'Zs, he often pontificates about how the WCO is a misnomer. What people call the WCO is Bill Walsh's offense that was created when he was in Cincinnati.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... _football/
What we are running now is a version of the Walsh offense, not the Don Coryell WCO that Gibbs refined and brought to DC in 1981.

[Deadskins]

Most of the QB's he mentioned actually sat for their first two seasons in the NFL (one of those "facts" Ray is always espousing), even though he claims they started right away.

Start reading or stop lying. I listed each one, and when they started and what their numbers were. Here it is again:

Tom Brady drafted 6th round. Did not play in rookie year. Second year, started 14 games, 2,843 18 TD. Third year (second year starting) 3,764 yards 28 TD

Ben Roethlisberger Played in his rookie year after Maddox and Batch went down with injuries. Started 3rd string in camp, and wound up the rookie of the year. Took Pittsburgh to the Super Bowl in his second year. Rookie 2,621 yards 17 TD in 13 games

Peyton Manning - Started his rookie year and compiled 3,743 yards and 26 TD. His second year, 4,135 yards and 26 TD

Tony Romo - Romo was signed by Dallas in 2003. No pass attempts ZERO in 2003, 2004, 2005. Wade Phillips took over as Coach and Romo saw his first action in 2006, (started 10 games) and ended the year with a 95.1 passer rating 2903 yards and 19 TD. At the end of 2006, Jason Garrett was hired as the new Offensive coach and installed his system. Romo was even better under the new offense and finished with a 97.4 rating, 4,211 yards and 36 TD (3 times the number of TDs Campbell had THREE TIMES. TOTAL GAME EXPERIENCE 26 games or 6 games more than Jason Campbell. Furthermore, Romo had 10 games in one system, and 16 games in another, whereas Campbell played all 20 games under Saunder's one system.

Jeff Garcia First year 2544 yards 11 TD. His second year 4,278 yards and 31 TD

Kurt Warner His rookie year he only had 11 pass attempts. His second year he threw for 4,353 yards and 41 TD

Philip Rivers 2004-2005 no games started, and had 30 total pass attempts in 2 years. 2006 he started all 16 games, 3,388 yards 22 TD. 2007 Norv Turner came in (new system) he had 3,152 and 21 TD.

Mark Brunell Drafted by Green Bay 1993. Packers 1993-1994 no games started, 27 total pass attempts. 1995 First year with Jaguars, 10 games, 2,168 yards 15 TD. Second year Jaguars 4,367 yards 19 TD.

Marc Bulger Rookie year, no games, no pass attempts. Second year, 7 games 1,836 yards 12 TD. Third year (7 games experience) 3,845 yards and 22 TD.

Carson Palmer Rookie year did not play. Second year (13 games) 2,897 yards 18 TD. Third year (13 games experience) 3,836 yards 32 TD

Chad Pennington 2000-2001 had 25 total pass attempts over 2 years. Third year (first 12 games starting) 3,120 yards 22 TD

Here's what you actually posted on page 8 of this very thread:

Tom Brady, first year, instantly successful

Ben Roethlisberger first year 98.1

Peyton Manning, second year 90.7

Tony Romo first year 95.1

Jeff Garcia second year 97.6

Kurt Warner first year 109.2

Philip Rivers first year (4 games experience) 92.0

Mark Brunell first year (2 games experience) 82.0

Marc Bulger first year 101.5

Carson Palmer second year (13 games experience) 101.1

Chad Pennington first full year (3 games experience) 104.2

Steve McNair first year (4 games experience) 90.6

Now, who's making stuff up again?

Same list of QB's, just more information about them than the original post that refutes the baseless claim that "Most of the QB's he mentioned actually sat for their first two seasons in the NFL"

Of the list of 11 QBs 3 started in the rookie year, 4 started in their 2nd year, the rest waited 2 or more seasons. According to my math, most of them started in their rookie or second year and did not sit on the bench for 2 years.

I also stated 1st year starting; 2nd year starting......

Campbell sat for 1 1/2 seasons, and a lot of good it did him, huh?

Let's knock off the word games.

I'm through debating the same issue over and over when you want to play word games or debate the difference between happy and glad......you said glad....you didn't say happy, yada yada yada

I'm glad we're going to stop now. But for the record, your original post that I quoted, the one without all of the embellishments, never mentioned the word "started" after the "1st years" and "2nd years." That was my point. I felt like you were trying to skew their stats to prove your foregone conclusion that QB's don't need time to learn to play in the NFL. I still feel that way.

Yes, there have been the rare exceptions, but no one is saying JC is one of those. You keep saying that he will never make it, and most people here think he will, if given time. We understand that you don't want to give him that time, but constantly bitching about it won't help matters, and neither will booing him off the field. Why not just support him, and hope he does well?

[Thundersloth]

Skinsfreak,

Al Saunders is a Don "Air" Coryell disciple, so he does run a version of the WCO.

As much as I hate to reference Dr. d'Zs, he often pontificates about how the WCO is a misnomer. What people call the WCO is Bill Walsh's offense that was created when he was in Cincinnati.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... _football/
What we are running now is a version of the Walsh offense, not the Don Coryell WCO that Gibbs refined and brought to DC in 1981.

If we're referring to Walsh's offense as the West Coast offense, then I stand corrected, my apologies. But, just for giggles I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_offense

[Deadskins]

Skinsfreak,

Al Saunders is a Don "Air" Coryell disciple, so he does run a version of the WCO.

As much as I hate to reference Dr. d'Zs, he often pontificates about how the WCO is a misnomer. What people call the WCO is Bill Walsh's offense that was created when he was in Cincinnati.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... _football/
What we are running now is a version of the Walsh offense, not the Don Coryell WCO that Gibbs refined and brought to DC in 1981.

If we're referring to Walsh's offense as the West Coast offense, then I stand corrected, my apologies. But, just for giggles I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_offense

That gives a good explanation of the situation. The point was that Al Saunders offense and Jim Zorn's offense are derivatives of two distinctly different approaches.

[John Manfreda]

when talking about Collins everyone is forgetting the age plus mileage fact. Yes, Collins is 37 but he does not have much mileage on his arm due to the fact that he hasn't played in a while. Thats why Riggins was so good in his 30's even though most Rb's don't have jobs than. Thats why Eddie George was done by the time he was 28, there is also mileage to consider not just age, and thats a fact when evaluating a player. Because Riggins didn't run as much with the Jets due to the presents of Namath, and the fact he took a year off while with the Redskins, Riggo's mileage was not so good, so as a result Riggo was effective while in his early thirties. While Eddie was a huge workhorse at Ohio State winning the Heisman and than was running the ball 25-30 times a game from the get go at Tennesse, when Eddie reached 28, Eddie's body could not handle a full time workload anymore, while Riggins hit his prime in his early 30's. You have to remember Collins is in fact 37 but because of his mileage he is more like someone that is his early 30's. Thats a fact age plus mileage, not just age alone.

The other fact is that he's a career back up who's followed around 1 offensive coordinator for a decade. There's a reason he hasn't started...

There is a reason for everything, in KC look who he was backing up. Green who made the pro-bowl practically every year. There are a lot of politics in sports, the better player doesn't always play and thats a fact. If their is politics in Rugby than there is a ton in any money making sports league.

[John Manfreda]

Because Riggins didn't run as much with the Jets due to the presents of Namath

Namath gave Riggins presents? Was it his birthday or something? Must have been a bycycle to keep him from having to run as much.

Are you serious that you didn't understand the typo???? There is a point to what he is saying (and something I had never thought of myself), but regardless of that fact, we still cannot build on Collins.

The one thing I don't understand is the comments on typos around here. Man people need to get a life. It's like I have to spell check just to post on a message board. Jesus.

I am not saying build on him, I am just saying use him for now.

[roybus14]

Okay boys and girls, remember to address the post...not the poster.

Having said that:

Campbell is not the only person on this offense that is learning a new system. That's the difference between he, and a good deal of the other "more successful" QBs in the league.

He has not had the luxury of entering a system where he was the only one who had to learn it.

I agree. That's an outstanding point. I think Zorn may possibly jump on JC quicker than he would a receiver because he is also the QB coach. What if the receiver runs the wrong route OR doesn't make the same read in coverage that the QB does (I'm assuming they read the coverage and adjust their routes). It would be hard for me to believe that EVERY other skill player EXCEPT for the QB has got the scheme down. So I think the answer to the thread question is, it's a little of both.

Well, it looked like Moss learned enough about the system to be wide open (by three steps) on a deep post, while Campbell danced around deciding what to do.

Can't argue with that one...

[SkinsFreak]

Skinsfreak,

Al Saunders is a Don "Air" Coryell disciple, so he does run a version of the WCO.

As much as I hate to reference Dr. d'Zs, he often pontificates about how the WCO is a misnomer. What people call the WCO is Bill Walsh's offense that was created when he was in Cincinnati.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... _football/
What we are running now is a version of the Walsh offense, not the Don Coryell WCO that Gibbs refined and brought to DC in 1981.

If we're referring to Walsh's offense as the West Coast offense, then I stand corrected, my apologies. But, just for giggles I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_offense

That gives a good explanation of the situation. The point was that Al Saunders offense and Jim Zorn's offense are derivatives of two distinctly different approaches.

Exactly. Much like Al Saunders, Joe Gibbs was also a disciple of Coryell, but neither Saunder's or Gibbs' offense was considered a West Coast system. Saunders and Gibbs used a down field passing attack and a power running game, features not prevalent in a WCO.

I would imagine Zorn is going to try to run a similar system as Holmgren did in Seattle. You are correct in saying the WCO passes to the backs but from what I saw against the Giants it didn't look like we were trying to do that.

That was one game. You aren't going to see the entire play book or repertoire in one game, or even two or three. Additionally, coaches will customize their game plan from week to week depending on the defensive scheme they will be facing each week.

I would imagine Zorn will use many aspects he learned from Holgrem, but I don't think for a minute it will be exactly the same. In fact, while Holgrem was the play caller in Seattle, Holgrem revealed that Zorn had a hand in play design during pregame meetings.

You simply looked at one team and one RB. Andy Reid came from the Holgrem coaching tree as well, and much like Zorn, he was the QB coach before getting the HC gig in Philly. Look at the number of receptions and receiving yards Brian Westbrook has had over the past few years.

I thought you were talking about my comment about a Dumb coach not wanting the job in Washington.

Really? You thought my detailing current Redskin players fitting a WCO had something, or anything to do with a "dumb coach" not wanting a job in Washington? Hmm... not sure how you came to that conclusion.

But since you went that route, I have to say I'm glad a "dumb coach" doesn't want to work for the Skins, although many would say Spurrier fit that bill.

But again, that's not topic related, just trying to keep the thread topical.

[Deadskins]

The answer to the original post, is both and neither. Football is the ultimate team sport, and if the offense is not performing well, there is plenty of blame to go around. It's not all on JC.

[Thundersloth]

Skinsfreak,

Al Saunders is a Don "Air" Coryell disciple, so he does run a version of the WCO.

As much as I hate to reference Dr. d'Zs, he often pontificates about how the WCO is a misnomer. What people call the WCO is Bill Walsh's offense that was created when he was in Cincinnati.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside ... _football/
What we are running now is a version of the Walsh offense, not the Don Coryell WCO that Gibbs refined and brought to DC in 1981.

If we're referring to Walsh's offense as the West Coast offense, then I stand corrected, my apologies. But, just for giggles I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_offense

That gives a good explanation of the situation. The point was that Al Saunders offense and Jim Zorn's offense are derivatives of two distinctly different approaches.

Exactly. Much like Al Saunders, Joe Gibbs was also a disciple of Coryell, but neither Saunder's or Gibbs' offense was considered a West Coast system. Saunders and Gibbs used a down field passing attack and a power running game, features not prevalent in a WCO.

I would imagine Zorn is going to try to run a similar system as Holmgren did in Seattle. You are correct in saying the WCO passes to the backs but from what I saw against the Giants it didn't look like we were trying to do that.

That was one game. You aren't going to see the entire play book or repertoire in one game, or even two or three. Additionally, coaches will customize their game plan from week to week depending on the defensive scheme they will be facing each week.

I would imagine Zorn will use many aspects he learned from Holgrem, but I don't think for a minute it will be exactly the same. In fact, while Holgrem was the play caller in Seattle, Holgrem revealed that Zorn had a hand in play design during pregame meetings.

You simply looked at one team and one RB. Andy Reid came from the Holgrem coaching tree as well, and much like Zorn, he was the QB coach before getting the HC gig in Philly. Look at the number of receptions and receiving yards Brian Westbrook has had over the past few years.

I thought you were talking about my comment about a Dumb coach not wanting the job in Washington.

Really? You thought my detailing current Redskin players fitting a WCO had something, or anything to do with a "dumb coach" not wanting a job in Washington? Hmm... not sure how you came to that conclusion.

But since you went that route, I have to say I'm glad a "dumb coach" doesn't want to work for the Skins, although many would say Spurrier fit that bill.

But again, that's not topic related, just trying to keep the thread topical.

I will try to do a better job staying on the topic of the thread. My thoughts about the thread topic: Yes, any coach will take plays and tinker with them and change or slightly adjust the scheme, so I'm sure Zorn will do this as well.

But I also think the scheme has to put the players, especially the QB, in a position to be successful. If the QB is not seeing what the coach wants him to see, then the success rate of the offense and subsequently the team will not be very high.

Skinsfreak, you're right, we don't know what's in Zorn's playbook from just 1 game and we can't tell what kind of plays he'll run against NO or any other opponent. So we don't know if he will or won't be passing to the backs. It looked to me that the scheme had CP open in the flat on the first play against the Giants but JC was locked onto a receiver on the right and he got sacked (no matter what scheme is employed Heyer and the O-line will need to do a better job than what they did on that play or NOTHING will work). So that appeared to be the QB's fault.

[Thundersloth]

Okay boys and girls, remember to address the post...not the poster.

Having said that:

Campbell is not the only person on this offense that is learning a new system. That's the difference between he, and a good deal of the other "more successful" QBs in the league.

He has not had the luxury of entering a system where he was the only one who had to learn it.

I agree. That's an outstanding point. I think Zorn may possibly jump on JC quicker than he would a receiver because he is also the QB coach. What if the receiver runs the wrong route OR doesn't make the same read in coverage that the QB does (I'm assuming they read the coverage and adjust their routes). It would be hard for me to believe that EVERY other skill player EXCEPT for the QB has got the scheme down. So I think the answer to the thread question is, it's a little of both.

Well, it looked like Moss learned enough about the system to be wide open (by three steps) on a deep post, while Campbell danced around deciding what to do.

Don't think that Campbell is the only QB in the league to miss somebody wide open on a post route. If your QB is not comfortable, he's not going to be looking at the post route, he's going to be looking at the receiver in the hook or flat zones. Just a bit more evidence that JC might not be picking up this offensive scheme very quickly.

[SkinsJock]

I think that Campbell will be given every opportunity to succeed here and the chance that we might see Collins or Brennan as our starting QB is going to be because Campbell shows that he does not give us the best chance to win or that Campbell is injured and not able to go.

When Zorn got here he looked at both Campbell and Collins and knew he had a starter (Campbell) and a good back-up in Collins. We added Brennan as a 3rd QB and hope that he will be able to contribute down the road.

This team could well go 1-4 or 0-5 to start the season but there are only 2 ways that Campbell loses his starting status is if he is injured or if he shows that he just does not give us the best chance to be successful. I do not see Zorn sitting Campbell to wake him up or shake him into reality, or just to try someone else. This guy is either going to be a very good QB here or he will be only here until the end of this season.

I do not see this team making the decision to start someone other than Campbell based on wins or losses - we can lose all 5 games and if Campbell shows he is going to give us the best chance to be successful then he will stay our starting QB.

That is really the team's only option - Collins is a good back-up QB - he is not going to start here unless Campbell shows he absolutely cannot do it. If that happens and Collins starts he will not be our starter for very long - he just does not offer the quality of play that we need from that position.

I am not sure that Campbell is going to get any better BUT I am sure that he offers a better chance of success than Collins.

[VetSkinsFan]

when talking about Collins everyone is forgetting the age plus mileage fact. Yes, Collins is 37 but he does not have much mileage on his arm due to the fact that he hasn't played in a while. Thats why Riggins was so good in his 30's even though most Rb's don't have jobs than. Thats why Eddie George was done by the time he was 28, there is also mileage to consider not just age, and thats a fact when evaluating a player. Because Riggins didn't run as much with the Jets due to the presents of Namath, and the fact he took a year off while with the Redskins, Riggo's mileage was not so good, so as a result Riggo was effective while in his early thirties. While Eddie was a huge workhorse at Ohio State winning the Heisman and than was running the ball 25-30 times a game from the get go at Tennesse, when Eddie reached 28, Eddie's body could not handle a full time workload anymore, while Riggins hit his prime in his early 30's. You have to remember Collins is in fact 37 but because of his mileage he is more like someone that is his early 30's. Thats a fact age plus mileage, not just age alone.

The other fact is that he's a career back up who's followed around 1 offensive coordinator for a decade. There's a reason he hasn't started...

There is a reason for everything, in KC look who he was backing up. Green who made the pro-bowl practically every year. There are a lot of politics in sports, the better player doesn't always play and thats a fact. If their is politics in Rugby than there is a ton in any money making sports league.

If he was that good, he would have gotten out and started somewhere else. Many QBs have ridden the pine and gotten out to go on with productive successful careers. Didn't Favre ride the pine for a year and then get traded? That's not good enough of an excuse for me to believe.

[PulpExposure]

I guess Campbell got lucky today, eh?

[welch]

Maybe a skillful QB will learn almost any system. Joe T played for Allen ("Thomas left, Thomas right, heave it"), Pardee/Walton (comlexity upon complexity without receivers or much blocking), and Gibbs (offense made for a big guy). Joe learned them all.

Jurgensen starred in every kind of offense. Unitas could have.

Campbell is neither Unitas nor Jurgensen, and he has different skills than Joe T.

So??? He's a smart athlete.

Maybe the scheme and the QB are growing together. Anybody else remember Dan Fouts? Remember that Gibbs had to adjust the offense to fit Joe, rather than Fouts? Did it work?

[PulpExposure]

Maybe the scheme and the QB are growing together. Anybody else remember Dan Fouts? Remember that Gibbs had to adjust the offense to fit Joe, rather than Fouts? Did it work?

I was posting tongue in cheek, welch

[SkinsFreak]

By the way, I haven't been following the entire league so far this year, but how is St. Louis doing in Al Saunders' scheme?

Did anyone see that JaMarcus Russell went 6/17 for 55 yards today? And that former 1st overall pick has been in the same scheme since he was drafted.

I saw some interesting stats this afternoon. After 2 games, Campbell currently has the 12th best QB rating in the league. That's better than 20 other QB's. He also placed 5th today in total passing yards. Portis is currently ranked 8th in total rushing from the league.

Not too shabby for a new rookie head coach and an entire offense, not just JC, learning a new scheme.

[welch]

I was posting tongue in cheek, welch

Yes, but others weren't. I had in mind the anonymous "NFL executive" that La Canfora quoted as saying that Campbell was strictly, solely, and only a Coryell/Gibbs/Saunders QB: strong arm, long passer. (Not you at all)

[roybus14]

JC took a step forward with this offense. When they look at the film today, I hope that both JC and Zorn can make the necessary adjustments to the things that need it and build on the confidence on the things worked well.

It was gusty of Zorn to call that slant to seal the game and trust JC and Moss to make it happen. That shows me that Zorn has confidence in JC...

[SkinsJock]

JC took a step forward with this offense. When they look at the film today, I hope that both JC and Zorn can make the necessary adjustments to the things that need it and build on the confidence on the things worked well.

It was gusty of Zorn to call that slant to seal the game and trust JC and Moss to make it happen. That shows me that Zorn has confidence in JC...

"gusty" maybe but Campbell audibled to the play that went to Moss

Campbell needs to keep improving but the biggest concern I have with him is the amount of time it takes him to get the ball to the receiver when that player is open - we are still seeing too many players that are open and by the time the ball gets there the defensive players have a chance to make a play - better QBs make quicker decisions, that is all there is to it. Campbell might not be able to do this - some have it and some don't - that skill set has nothing to do with different offensive systems - he might just be a good QB, not a very good QB

this was a good confidence builder for everyone and we shall soon see if they can progress towards better execution in the coming weeks

[SkinsFreak]

Campbell needs to keep improving but the biggest concern I have with him is the amount of time it takes him to get the ball to the receiver when that player is open - we are still seeing too many players that are open and by the time the ball gets there the defensive players have a chance to make a play - better QBs make quicker decisions, that is all there is to it. Campbell might not be able to do this - some have it and some don't - that skill set has nothing to do with different offensive systems - he might just be a good QB, not a very good QB

I'm not willing to go there just yet. JC has indeed been holding the ball a little too long on some plays, but I think there is a reason for this and I expect that to change.

When QB's are in the process of learning a new system, they are coached quite a bit on what not to do, especially from former QB's. I believe JC holding the ball a little too long, on some plays, is clear evidence that he is thinking about what the coach said 'not to do' and is trying to avoid a mistake.

JC has missed some passes because the ball was late, but he also hasn't thrown any interceptions either. I did, in fact, notice this problem was improved yesterday, so I believe, based on that improvement, he will make strides at getting the ball out quicker the more familiar he becomes with the system and what Zorn wants him to do, and what not to do.

321 yards passing and 455 yards of total offense... what was the question again? Oh yeah, scheme or QB. Hmm...

[SkinsJock]

Campbell needs to keep improving but the biggest concern I have with him is the amount of time it takes him to get the ball to the receiver when that player is open - we are still seeing too many players that are open and by the time the ball gets there the defensive players have a chance to make a play - better QBs make quicker decisions, that is all there is to it. Campbell might not be able to do this - some have it and some don't - that skill set has nothing to do with different offensive systems - he might just be a good QB, not a very good QB

I'm not willing to go there just yet. JC has indeed been holding the ball a little too long on some plays, but I think there is a reason for this and I expect that to change.

When QB's are in the process of learning a new system, they are coached quite a bit on what not to do, especially from former QB's. I believe JC holding the ball a little too long, on some plays, is clear evidence that he is thinking about what the coach said 'not to do' and is trying to avoid a mistake.

JC has missed some passes because the ball was late, but he also hasn't thrown any interceptions either. I did, in fact, notice this problem was improved yesterday, so I believe, based on that improvement, he will make strides at getting the ball out quicker the more familiar he becomes with the system and what Zorn wants him to do, and what not to do.

321 yards passing and 455 yards of total offense... what was the question again? Oh yeah, scheme or QB. Hmm...

The numbers are a credit to both the players and the co-ordinators, no question - and a big lift to the team.

this was a big time win for the team - at one time I was thinking "well at least we are seeing a lot of improvement all round ... bit of a shame we only made the field goals but ..." then the team just kept making plays on both sides of the ball and we now look like the team we hoped we could be.

don't get me wrong about Campbell - I think that he offers a lot of upside and I am one that would love for him to justify Gibbs selection of him with the idea that he could become our starting QB. We are still a team that is finding itself and Campbell may indeed be getting a lot more comfortable - I am not ready to say "we have arrived" just yet but we certainly helped the program a lot with that effort yesterday.