SNYDER CERRATO AND CONTINUITY

[old-timer]

What exactly has picking up these players proved? Nothing yet. Two are rookies that are admittedly getting off on a slow start, but how, honestly, can you use a rookie in the first week of the NFL season to judge ANYTHING.

I could name a half dozen other stupid moves in the last 8 years, but these will do just fine. Both Thomas and Kelly were both well-known to real NFL GM's as having injury problems, and guess what? They are having injury problems. How much has Jason Taylor done for us since he's been here? Are you betting this will change? I'm not.

As for JT, we had to pick up an end. Would you rather rely on Chris Wilson as an every down end? what about a guy who's not recovered fully from major reconstructive surgery on his knee (James). Or better yet, we can rely on a 7th round draft pick!!

Uh, well...why do you think we were so desperate to pick up a DE? We've only known for the last EIGHT YEARS that we needed a DE. How many have we drafted? Real GM's find a way to get them, or get the picks to get them. We all knew we needed DL help this draft, last draft, the year before...PLUS OL help...how much have we gotten? How many draft picks thrown away instead of sorely needed line talent?

HERE is a fearless prediction: we are one or two OL injuries away from another throwaway season. And it WON'T be because of bad luck. It'll be because of two amateurs running the front office.

[CanesSkins26]

As for JT, we had to pick up an end. Would you rather rely on Chris Wilson as an every down end? what about a guy who's not recovered fully from major reconstructive surgery on his knee (James). Or better yet, we can rely on a 7th round draft pick!!

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps they should consider actually using a draft pick that's higher than a 6th or 7th rounder on a defensive end. Then we wouldn't be in a situation where we have to trade multiple picks for a defensive end that we don't even know how to use properly.

[aswas71788]

Taylor, Thomas and Kelley are not real good examples. Now if you had uses Dion Sanders, Archuleta, LLoyd or any others, they would be better examples of lousy choices. However, in each of their cases, the selelction was from the coach, not Cerrato or Snyder. Oh by the way, Santana Moss was a Snyder selection.

[Leadbelly]

As for JT, we had to pick up an end. Would you rather rely on Chris Wilson as an every down end? what about a guy who's not recovered fully from major reconstructive surgery on his knee (James). Or better yet, we can rely on a 7th round draft pick!!

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps they should consider actually using a draft pick that's higher than a 6th or 7th rounder on a defensive end. Then we wouldn't be in a situation where we have to trade multiple picks for a defensive end that we don't even know how to use properly.

Are you serious? How many high DE draft picks pan out? It's one of the biggest chances in the NFL draft. Also, the Redskins stated that they were set to take Merling but Miami took him 2 or 3 picks before.Now I wanted us to take Calais Campbell with our second pick in the second round but it didn't happen. But do you seriously think that a rookie could be a better DE than a vet? Yes, you might have more talnet but the experience comes into to play. The ability to recognize plays is much more important than physical ability.

[Deadskins]

How much has Jason Taylor done for us since he's been here? Are you betting this will change? I'm not.

What a ridiculous statement! He's played exactly one game for us. Coming off a horrible looking knee injury to boot. He has more sacks than any other player in the NFL over the past 10 seasons, and has played in 131 consecutive games. For each bad pick-up there has been an equally good pickup. Sean Springs, London Fletcher, Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Randy Thomas, and ARE are all pick-ups who have contributed to this team. I think JT is going to be a great addition to this team. But to say he is a bust after one game in a Skins uniform is asinine.

[SkinsFreak]

Both Thomas and Kelly were both well-known to real NFL GM's as having injury problems, and guess what? They are having injury problems.

Here's another ridiculous statement. Please elaborate for us the injury history and concerns by "real GM's" regarding Devin Thomas.

[roybus14]

I agree. Just like I said in another thread about JC, how many other NFL QB's have had to go through coaching and system changes like he and this team has? Right now, they are making news out of Brett Favre struggling a little bit in New York. It's really not a big deal because Brett is a veteran in this league and is "mature" for the postion in that he's seen it all from defenses which means he can make the right reads (but not the right throws) and he has had for a long time what alot of other QBs in this league have that JC doesn't, a constant or same offense and offensive scheme.

There is a problem when you have talent on a team like this one does and you keep changing philosophies every other year seemingly. Why was GW not given the HC job? At least from a defensive standpoint you'd have continuity.

I will give Dan Snyder his props for effort but a big fat "F" for smarts. And look at our arch rivals in Texas with it's meddlesome owner. As much as I hate to say it, they do have continuity down there and are not a bad team. Even though Wade Phillips is "dead-man walking", Jones has been able to keep Garrett and the rest of that team together and has built a continuity. The real coach of that team is Garrett but Jones has somehow gotten "buy-in" from everybody to work together and build continuity.

Now if Zorn does not get this team to the playoffs this year, I imagine that there will be yet another change and Danny will go after Cowher. So we will be with yet another HC, another OC, and probably another DC. The JC and the rest of the bunch will have to yet learn another coach or coaches and another system or systems. JC's window is running out to see if he will be a good or great NFL QB just like Ramsey's did. Because with JC, it won't be the physically beating, it will be the mental beating of having to learn yet another system without getting comfortable in the one he's in, probably another coach trying to change his mechanics for the third time.....

[old-timer]

Both Thomas and Kelly were both well-known to real NFL GM's as having injury problems, and guess what? They are having injury problems.

Here's another ridiculous statement. Please elaborate for us the injury history and concerns by "real GM's" regarding Devin Thomas.

Ceratto and Snyder's personnel management failures are not a matter of opinion, they're a matter of record. As in, team record. 8 years of failure, with the only constants being upper management. Why you continue to argue that Cerrato and Snyder aren't failures at this point is beyond me.

During the same period of time when the Redskins have bumbled from mediocre season to mediocre season, the Dallas Cowboys have gone from 3-13 to 13-3. And you consider the Redskins management to be a success? Sorry, I disagree.

[Deadskins]

I don't see where you're getting that he argued DS and VC are successful, from his questioning your statement of Thomas being a known injury risk.

[old-timer]

I don't see where you're getting that he argued DS and VC are successful, from questioning your statement of Thomas being a known injury risk.

I shouldn't have said Thomas. It was just Kelly. Happy now?

But the point is, every time I criticize Snyder and Cerrato, Skinsfreak jumps to their defense. And there really is no defense. They suck. Do I sound bitter? Yes, I am. I had high hopes for Snyder, and he has proven to be one of the worst things that could have happened to this team. I came to that conclusion over a period of years. The same years when the Cowboys, the team I loathe, has come back completely while we're still mired in mediocrity. And I don't have any patience for apologists for failure.

[MEZZSKIN]

Im all for Patience but not for this 2008 team....Were Married to Zorn to now for better or worse...Im not even down on the guy.

but patience?...Jansen is done Thomas 10th yr samuels 9th yr kendal 12th year Rabach is old
Griffin is ancient Springs is old Daniels and Taylor ancient flecther ancient
MW is old now
Smoot Moss Portis and ARE are no spring chickens anymore

WE NEED TO WIN NOW!
We cant afford to sit around and look like the embarassment that we were on thursday...Only because players no jack about this new offense

even if campbell turns this around and grasps the offense...
We will need a whole new OLINE AND DLINE and LB!!!....in less than 2 years

AND WERE REBUILDING AGIAN!!
Look im not one these know it alls that hope the Redskins lose to prove me right....HELL NO...i hope im wrong...I pray im wrong
but in my heart mind and soul i know this offensive change was outright disaster....this team 2008 team DID NOT need this now....
but because i love this team and franchise
I must remain patient
That seems to be our mantra for this decade
CHANGE PATIENCE CHANGE PATIENCE CHANGE PATIENCE

[1niksder]

Both Thomas and Kelly were both well-known to real NFL GM's as having injury problems, and guess what? They are having injury problems.

Here's another ridiculous statement. Please elaborate for us the injury history and concerns by "real GM's" regarding Devin Thomas.

Ceratto and Snyder's personnel management failures are not a matter of opinion, they're a matter of record. As in, team record. 8 years of failure, with the only constants being upper management. Why you continue to argue that Cerrato and Snyder aren't failures at this point is beyond me.

During the same period of time when the Redskins have bumbled from mediocre season to mediocre season, the Dallas Cowboys have gone from 3-13 to 13-3. And you consider the Redskins management to be a success? Sorry, I disagree.

Did I miss the part where you named those real GMs that had concerns about Devin's ?

[CanesSkins26]

Thomas has no injury, however, he also has no proven track record of success. He had exactly one good season at Michigan State.

[GSPODS]

Thomas has no injury, however, he also has no proven track record of success. He had exactly one good season at Michigan State.

Oh. Like Michael Westbrook had a track record of collegiate success?

C'mon. Anyone above the age of reason knows that collegiate success is no indication of anything, especially with wide receivers.

[Deadskins]

Both Thomas and Kelly were both well-known to real NFL GM's as having injury problems, and guess what? They are having injury problems.

Here's another ridiculous statement. Please elaborate for us the injury history and concerns by "real GM's" regarding Devin Thomas.

Ceratto and Snyder's personnel management failures are not a matter of opinion, they're a matter of record. As in, team record. 8 years of failure, with the only constants being upper management. Why you continue to argue that Cerrato and Snyder aren't failures at this point is beyond me.

During the same period of time when the Redskins have bumbled from mediocre season to mediocre season, the Dallas Cowboys have gone from 3-13 to 13-3. And you consider the Redskins management to be a success? Sorry, I disagree.

Did I miss the part where you named those real GMs that had concerns about Devin's ?

Sort of:

I don't see where you're getting that he argued DS and VC are successful, from questioning your statement of Thomas being a known injury risk.

I shouldn't have said Thomas. It was just Kelly. Happy now?

But the point is, every time I criticize Snyder and Cerrato, Skinsfreak jumps to their defense. And there really is no defense. They suck. Do I sound bitter? Yes, I am. I had high hopes for Snyder, and he has proven to be one of the worst things that could have happened to this team. I came to that conclusion over a period of years. The same years when the Cowboys, the team I loathe, has come back completely while we're still mired in mediocrity. And I don't have any patience for apologists for failure.

[skinsfan1963]

i just hope that snyder is patient enough with zorn and the coaching staff enough.
i would hate to see zorn get canned at the end of his 1st year for a big name coach like cower.the skins will win if we and the organization remains patient.

[HEROHAMO]

I am starting to think Cerratto could do a decent job. If Snyder could just stay out of his way he would do fine.

[welch]

Even if the Redskins have a bad season -- and they've only played one game so far -- it is impossible, truly impossible, to predict what Snyder will do.

Has anyone accurately predicted Snyder (note that I'm ignoring Cerrato...he doesn't seem to count for much)?

It seems like a waste of time. I'll be following the next game.

[Redskin in Canada]

This team is not going anywhere as long as Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato are running it. How many bone-headed personnel moves like Jason Taylor, Devin Thomas, and Malcolm Kelly does it take to prove these two clowns don't know what they're doing?

Welcome to the club of the point of no return with Snyder. Admittedly the arguments you support your statement on in THIS post are not the ones I might choose -YET-.

HOWEVER, for all the brilliant posts that followed criticism of this post, NOBODY seems to have had the arguments or the strength of character to address this one:

Uh, well...why do you think we were so desperate to pick up a DE? We've only known for the last EIGHT YEARS that we needed a DE. How many have we drafted? Real GM's find a way to get them, or get the picks to get them. We all knew we needed DL help this draft, last draft, the year before...PLUS OL help...how much have we gotten? How many draft picks thrown away instead of sorely needed line talent?

HERE is a fearless prediction: we are one or two OL injuries away from another throwaway season. And it WON'T be because of bad luck. It'll be because of two amateurs running the front office.

And YOU, my good friend old-timer, might have EVERY right to remind them about the prediction made in your second paragraph before the end of this season. Let's see who sounds more ridiculous in the end (not having the last laugh because this is pitiful to us albeit it can get to be hilarious to our division opponents at one time).

They can ridicule your arguments all they want now. They might have a point about premature criticism. But you and I (and a whole lotta other seasoned fans) have a track record of incompetence for over a decade on our side to prove our argument over the MAIN reason for failure in this organization.

I am not one to change my THN poster Signature often or without much justification. But this time, there is a purpose. Please keep an eye on it.

[PulpExposure]

i just hope that snyder is patient enough with zorn and the coaching staff enough.
i would hate to see zorn get canned at the end of his 1st year for a big name coach like cower.the skins will win if we and the organization remains patient.

I agree 100% with you.

This season, we shouldn't be expecting a great season for a few reasons.

1) Rookie Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
2) Brand new offensive system (that the coach said it took the previous QB 2 years to get comfortable in)
3) Toughest division in the NFL

The most important thing to get out of this season is to see the team grow comfortable with what Zorn wants them to do...and then for Snyder to keep Zorn, despite whatever dismal record may result. I can deal with a bad season, if that bad season means the team can actually stay solvent for next year.

The worst thing that could happen is for us to have a bad season, and then for Snyder to start the whole thing all over again.

There are no quick fixes in the NFL. I hope he understands that. I think he does, but I have no proof of that.

As RiC says, there's quite a lot of proof to the contrary, albiet most of it is pre-Joe Gibbs. And I think he learned a lot from Joe.

I hope he did.

[Chris Luva Luva]

i just hope that snyder is patient enough with zorn and the coaching staff enough.
i would hate to see zorn get canned at the end of his 1st year for a big name coach like cower.the skins will win if we and the organization remains patient.

I agree 100% with you.

This season, we shouldn't be expecting a great season for a few reasons.

1) Rookie Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
2) Brand new offensive system (that the coach said it took the previous QB 2 years to get comfortable in)
3) Toughest division in the NFL

The most important thing to get out of this season is to see the team grow comfortable with what Zorn wants them to do...and then for Snyder to keep Zorn, despite whatever dismal record may result. I can deal with a bad season, if that bad season means the team can actually stay solvent for next year.

The worst thing that could happen is for us to have a bad season, and then for Snyder to start the whole thing all over again.

There are no quick fixes in the NFL. I hope he understands that. I think he does, but I have no proof of that.

As RiC says, there's quite a lot of proof to the contrary, albiet most of it is pre-Joe Gibbs. And I think he learned a lot from Joe.

I hope he did.

Amen.

[Redskin in Canada]

This season, we shouldn't be expecting a great season for a few reasons.

1) Rookie Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
2) Brand new offensive system (that the coach said it took the previous QB 2 years to get comfortable in)
3) Toughest division in the NFL

The most important thing to get out of this season is to see the team grow comfortable with what Zorn wants them to do...and then for Snyder to keep Zorn, despite whatever dismal record may result. I can deal with a bad season, if that bad season means the team can actually stay solvent for next year.

And this is a perfectly legitimate position to have. It is perhaps the ONLY mature and loyal position to have. I seriously debated it in my head during the offseason. Unfortunately, I do not share it. And I do not share it not based on my convictions about the INCOMPETENCE, FAILURE and GREED of the Front Office. No, it is based on the ACTIONS which have CONSEQUENCES lingering on the near FUTURE of this franchise. It does not take rocket science to figure it out. A good number of players do not have much more time left before they decline from a starting position:

Im all for Patience but not for this 2008 team....Were Married to Zorn to now for better or worse...Im not even down on the guy.

but patience?...Jansen is done Thomas 10th yr samuels 9th yr kendal 12th year Rabach is old
Griffin is ancient Springs is old Daniels and Taylor ancient flecther ancient
MW is old now
Smoot Moss Portis and ARE are no spring chickens anymore

He is right

How smart does it look to bring a new West Coast Offense and get rid of your Def Coach now??? I do not blame Zorn. He is doing the ONLY thing that he knows to do. Welch had it right earlier on: We could have had continuity among coaches, players and SYSTEMS.

We are where we are though.

[MEZZSKIN]

Mezz, let be put another word in the discussion...patience. Yes we have changed systems and our offense looked terrible but it's a starting point. In your post you used the Colts and the Cowboys as examples of continuity...I humbly remind you that Indy had to wait years for Manning to develop into an elite quaterback while going through many different offensive cordinators. Dallas brought in an unknown named Jason Garret to be the O-Cord. Those of us who watched football for many years knew him as the constant beachwarmer, no one could have predicted his sucess as a coach. My point here is this: A change had to be made...yes it's tough changing systems but I would remind everyone that Al Sanders offense with the Skins was no juggernaut. With Zorn we have taken a new path and will have an uphill climb to become an elite offense but the groundwork is there and Zorn is a motivated ambitious guy, which usually means sucess. Another big change this year that goes against your continuity arguement was that Snyder didn't continue his streak of paying for over-priced free agents. I, like every Redskins fan yelled at the TV, questioned Zorn play calling and entered a state of mouring after the loss, however I'm not ready to burn my jerseys and declare myself a Panthers fan (I live in SC). We might go 4 and 12 this season but I remember many years of the Patriots and Colts being the bottom of the barrel in the NFL. Also I remember how pathetic the NY Giants looked in the first two games of last year. My advice is to stay calm, step away from the ledge and perhaps wait till the season is the rearview mirror before we storm the gates of FEDEX field demanding Zorn and Snyders head.

#1---I never mentioned the Colts in my initial or in any of posts....But funny you mention them because you proved my point even further.
The offensive Coordinator for Peyton initially under Jim Mora was TOM MOORE
when tony Dungy WAS HIRED guess who he named offensive coordinator
TOM MOORE
IT WAS PEYTONS ONLY OFENSIVE COORDINATOR OF HIS ENTIRE CAREER...upuntil 2 years ago....reason #1
CONTINUITY!

[old-timer]

This season, we shouldn't be expecting a great season for a few reasons.

1) Rookie Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
2) Brand new offensive system (that the coach said it took the previous QB 2 years to get comfortable in)
3) Toughest division in the NFL

The most important thing to get out of this season is to see the team grow comfortable with what Zorn wants them to do...and then for Snyder to keep Zorn, despite whatever dismal record may result. I can deal with a bad season, if that bad season means the team can actually stay solvent for next year.

I keep having this vision of what Zorn's interview was like. It goes something like this:

[Day 4 - 2:39 am]

Zorn: Okay, so I'm set for life financially, and I get an opportunity as head coach that I would otherwise have to wait years, if not forever for. So who gets to make personnel decisions?
Snyder: We all do. We each get a vote, just like a democracy.
Cerrato: Yeah, that's right, like a democracy.
Snyder: Vinny gets one vote, I get another, and you get one too Jim.
Cerrato: Yeah, we each get a vote!

LOL!

[roybus14]

Daniel Snyder is a good owner but not a smart one. He is definitely willing to spend money to get this team better and I am grateful for that. But Danny has to learn how to be smart and look at the bigger picture. Contiunity and Stability wins championships. He can spend all of the money he wants but until you put a team (players and coaches) out there that have had the benefit of time together and developing a program, you will get what we have now.

I don't fault Snyder for bringing back Gibbs because he probably didn't know like us fans that Gibbs was going to be a shell of his former self who was to scared or cautious to take chances and who while showing loyalty to Brunell, hurt this team. Now, if Snyder decides that Zorn is his coach allows him to built a solid system over the next 2-4 years with minimal changes, I think that there could be success. Unless Zorn cracks under the pressure and cannot get this team to "buy-in" and develop continuity, we should see some success.