KazooSkinsFan wrote:RayNAustin wrote:Again, Roethlisberger was the offensive rookie of the year in 2004, and amazed everyone. To suggest that he was just a guy out there driving Pittsburgh's version of the Ferrari, asked only that he not wreck it, just isn't what actually happened. And even though the QB rating isn't the end all be all, a QB has to perform exceptionally well to achieve a 98 rating for the entire year. It shows consistency. Something Campbell has NEVER shown.
To suggest that given the same scenario, Campbell would have done equally well as Roethlisberger is at the very least, wild, unsupportable speculation. I think it's laughable. Campbell isn't anywhere close to being at Roethlisberger's level. Had this been true, the Redskins might have made it to the Super Bowl last year.....because that is all that was missing....a top tier QB.
OK, so there are 32 teams and a few truly great QBs, some even do well as rookies. You can name some of them, well done. So what? Almost every team has to groom quarterbacks over several years to get them decent and even then it's iffy as so many of them still suck.
Give the man a SeeGar. That's precisely my point. Several teams have really good QB's, and the rest of them waste years "grooming" QBs that will never be better than mediocre. But the point you are missing is that all of the really good QBs seem to show it much earlier on (first and second years). None of the really good ones I know of flounder for 3 years and then magically transform into fine QBs. If there are any, perhaps you can name some for me? And don't bother naming Eli Manning, OK. Eli is the mother of all enigmas, and when he retires, many will still be wondering whether he was a good QB or not. I personally think the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins are fortunate that Eli is the QB for the Giants instead of Rivers.
KazooSkinsFan wrote:JC may be in that category, may not. But again the ODDS are a lot better with him then our alternatives.
I say the mathematical odds say that Collins (record of 4-1) is a better bet than Campbell at what ? 8-12 ?
KazooSkinsFan wrote: No one thinks he's the next Joe Montana. He's smart, got a great arm and we've invested in bringing him along.
Sure you do. You all speak of Campbell as if he is the other JC (Jesus Christ) around here. And smart? Oh yeah, he's a flipping rocket scientist isn't he. He got all the way up to page 13 of Al Saunders 700 page play book in just two short years. At that rate, he'd be 67 years old before he made it to the last page.
And his arm may be strong, but it's not even close to great. Great requires accuracy, touch, and consistency, none of which Campbell has ever demonstrated. I'm speaking of the physical aspects of the position here. That's where he continues to struggle. That he also has trouble making quick decisions only compounds the trouble, but is not the sole source of his inadequacies. Now you can rationalize why that is until the moon is blue, but at the end of the day, it has way less to do with what "system" he's asked to execute than is suggested. He had plenty of time to get comfortable with Saunders offense, so either he isn't as smart as everyone claims, or he just doesn't have that "it" that separates the good QBs from the also ran.
Campbell's numbers are firmly set in the mediocre category, and as long as the Redskins insist on making him their "franchise QB" at all costs, disappointment will be the only thing we can look forward to. And as long as the Redskins are willing to accept marginal performance from the QB position, they will continue flirting with the basement of the NFC east. The division is just too strong to expect to be competitive without an offensive play maker at the QB position. If we were in the NFC West, we might be able to get by with riding Portis like a pack mule, but not in the East.
And, very rarely do you see a team come along that is a true contender who's QB is marginal. The Ravens, for a short time had such a dominant defense, they were able to do it, but only temporarily. The Bears did it for one year. All of the rest of the real contenders have a solid QB. Peyton Manning, Brady, Romo, (last year Favre), Rivers, Roethlisberger, and not a single one of them took "years of grooming". NOT ONE.
Of course, I expect you and many others to "rub my nose in it" when Campbell rocks the NFL this year, but in the likely event that he doesn't, I'd suggest a bit more pragmatism, if I were you.
KazooSkinsFan wrote: Joe thought he was the best option as does Jim. If he's a disappointment this year you'll find a lot different tone at the end of the year. But running him down in pre-season with no viable alternatives is just pointless.
Yes, "Joe" thought he was the best option last year, and Joe turned out to be wrong, didn't he? Or are you still unwilling to admit that?
As for what "Jim" thinks....that's hard to say. I don't think Jim knows what Jim thinks yet. He certainly can't be thrilled with Campbell's pre-season performance, but starting Campbell may be the only option he has, politically speaking. But I don't think Zorn's leash is going to be as long as Gibbs leash was regarding Campbell. If Campbell stinks the joint up over the next 5 or 6 games and we go 1-5, or 0-6, he might start leaning toward a change. I suspect Campbell has half a season to start showing him something, not the whole season. After that, I think Campbell will have either solidified his position as the starter, or Collins, and or maybe even Brennan will get a look if we are in a big enough hole by then.
Realistically, the first 8 games will tell the story of 2008. A win against the Giants (unlikely) would go a long ways in building some much needed confidence. And a 3-5 or 4-4 start would be a major victory this year. But we could also see a 1-7 or 2-6 start, and the second half of the season looks to be the toughest stretch of the schedule.
I suspect the Redskins will have to rely on Portis and the defense to keep us in games early on. Don't look for Campbell to do it. And I'm not running him down. I'm just being realistic, given what I saw from him in pre season. He looked awful. Just like he did in 2007.
What has he done that would inspire confidence or optimism? Nothing that I can see.