Best Qb

[John Manfreda]

according to Don Banks we have the best back up Qb in the league. I wish we had the best Qb in the league, but saying we have the best back up is cool.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... ml?eref=T1

[brad7686]

thats hilarious. I guess we could have the best number 3 when its all said and done as well.

[Hoss]

I don't agree with his assessment at all. Not to take anything away from Collins for what he did for us last year, but I would rather have a few other guys on that list as my back up than him. Before Collins started at the end of '07, I would literally cringe at the thought of him leading the team. I thought he was god-awful prior to those starts. I base these feelings on actual live observations. I still feel that way.


I admit, I hope I am wrong.

[BossHog]

Collins being number one may seem ridiculous, but when you look at the list, it's not THAT out of place.

I'm surprised that Trent Green is that far down on the list, but other than that, it's nothing but a bunch of very average quarterbacks.

The league better start churning out some good college prospects soon...

[GSPODS]

1. Washington: Todd Collins -- The unspoken truth in D.C. is that the veteran would run Jim Zorn's offense better today than starter Jason Campbell, who I still think might struggle in his transition to the West Coast style attack. It was Collins, not Campbell, who orchestrated the Redskins' four-game late season winning streak and wild-card playoff berth last year.

Banks isn't paying attention.
This is a spoken 'truth', not an unspoken one. No. That would mean Banks still isn't paying attention. Maybe he should have written about best 3rd string QB / clipboardholders. I think the Redskins win that list too. What's the prize? That some 'fans' start wishing for the starter to go out? Look what Banks started. Wait. That started long before this article. Nevermind.

I think that IF the Redskins need to call on a backup QB this season, it had better be the one who can run for his life.
Jason Campbell won't be out for ineffectiveness. He'll be out because the offensive line couldn't block anyone.

[VetSkinsFan]

1. Washington: Todd Collins -- The unspoken truth in D.C. is that the veteran would run Jim Zorn's offense better today than starter Jason Campbell, who I still think might struggle in his transition to the West Coast style attack. It was Collins, not Campbell, who orchestrated the Redskins' four-game late season winning streak and wild-card playoff berth last year.

Banks isn't paying attention.
This is a spoken 'truth', not an unspoken one. No. That would mean Banks still isn't paying attention. Maybe he should have written about best 3rd string QB / clipboardholders. I think the Redskins win that list too. What's the prize? That some 'fans' start wishing for the starter to go out? Look what Banks started. Wait. That started long before this article. Nevermind.

I think that IF the Redskins need to call on a backup QB this season, it had better be the one who can run for his life.
Jason Campbell won't be out for ineffectiveness. He'll be out because the offensive line couldn't block anyone.

I thought that Colt played the best out of the 3 QBs (I'm not even counting Devine). He's the one that orchestrated comebacks, he's the one that got the completions downfield. Yes, yes, he was 3rd string playing against 3rd string, but that's the only reference we have. That doesnotcompletely disqualify the idea that he could perform on the 1st string.

[GSPODS]

1. Washington: Todd Collins -- The unspoken truth in D.C. is that the veteran would run Jim Zorn's offense better today than starter Jason Campbell, who I still think might struggle in his transition to the West Coast style attack. It was Collins, not Campbell, who orchestrated the Redskins' four-game late season winning streak and wild-card playoff berth last year.

Banks isn't paying attention.
This is a spoken 'truth', not an unspoken one. No. That would mean Banks still isn't paying attention. Maybe he should have written about best 3rd string QB / clipboardholders. I think the Redskins win that list too. What's the prize? That some 'fans' start wishing for the starter to go out? Look what Banks started. Wait. That started long before this article. Nevermind.

I think that IF the Redskins need to call on a backup QB this season, it had better be the one who can run for his life.
Jason Campbell won't be out for ineffectiveness. He'll be out because the offensive line couldn't block anyone.

I thought that Colt played the best out of the 3 QBs (I'm not even counting Devine). He's the one that orchestrated comebacks, he's the one that got the completions downfield. Yes, yes, he was 3rd string playing against 3rd string, but that's the only reference we have. That doesnotcompletely disqualify the idea that he could perform on the 1st string.

Agreed. It doesn't disqualify the idea at all. In fact, I think Banks had the right team but the wrong backup. I think the best #2 QB in the NFL right now is Colt Brennan. Right now is preseason, and we only have to go on what we have to go on, as you pointed out. Preseason evaluation of rookies is definitely a guessing game. For comparison, Matt Sinclair was second on the team in tackles, and look where he is now. Unfortunately for the Redskins, and fortunately for many players, preseason is no indicator of anything. If it was, Jason Campbell would not be the opening day starter, and Reed Doughty would be looking for work.

[VetSkinsFan]

Preseason evaluation of rookies is definitely a guessing game. For comparison, Matt Sinclair was second on the team in tackles, and look where he is now.

I think this was mainly due to injury. We're thin at LB and I think he had a great chance to make it if it were not for the injury.

[GSPODS]

Preseason evaluation of rookies is definitely a guessing game. For comparison, Matt Sinclair was second on the team in tackles, and look where he is now.

I think this was mainly due to injury. We're thin at LB and I think he had a great chance to make it if it were not for the injury.

I don't want to get off topic, but there is the PUP / IR list if Sinclair was valuable to the Redskins. It's certainly not as though the Redskins go through seasons without losing linebackers to injuries.

My point was that if preseason was an accurate indication of how things would go and how players would perform in the regular season, the Redskins would start Colt Brennan and Marcus Mason in favor of Jason Campbell and Clinton Portis, they would finish the season with a record of 12-4, and nobody would be (yet again) beating the front office to death for poor decision-making skills.

A list of the best backup QB's is relative to the fact that not many of those players could start regularly on a bet. Collins end of season heroics are the only reason he is at the top of this list. Banks obviously hasn't been paying much attention to how lost Collins looks in Jim Zorn's offense. Just as lost as Jason Campbell looks, it seems to me. How he, or anyone else could conclude that Collins is the best backup in the league is beyond me.
Doesn't the best backup in the league have to not only know, but actually have played in the system in the current decade? I would think so. And let's be honest. Redskins fans aren't clamoring to see Todd Collins "at the helm" for any length of time. Just the thought scares the hell out of me, and I don't think I'm alone.

[SkinsFreak]

If Al Saunders was still the offensive coordinator, then I might agree with Banks. He's basing this off of last season. Of course Collins looked good running the offense he studied and played in for a decade. Has Banks seen Collins this year running Zorn's version of the west coast? Collins has not looked very good thus far. And if Collins was so great, with all the teams out there currently struggling with QB problems, how come there wasn't a long line of teams trying to sign Collins when he was a free agent?

[DEHog]

My vote would have going to Kurt Warner...still one of the most accurate passers in the game...he killed us last year...but I guess he now is a starter.
I have Volek a bit higher as well.

[GSPODS]

Is this a good time and place to point out that Collins' nickname is "RainMan?"
How can anyone fascinated with K-Mart, boxer shorts, and Jeopardy be the best backup QB in the league, I ask.

http://chriscooley47.blogspot.com/2008/ ... names.html

[RayNAustin]

If Al Saunders was still the offensive coordinator, then I might agree with Banks. He's basing this off of last season. Of course Collins looked good running the offense he studied and played in for a decade. Has Banks seen Collins this year running Zorn's version of the west coast? Collins has not looked very good thus far. And if Collins was so great, with all the teams out there currently struggling with QB problems, how come there wasn't a long line of teams trying to sign Collins when he was a free agent?

Could we be overlooking the possibility that it's Zorn's offense that is flawed or ill suited for the talents of both Campbell and Collins? Zorn's system places much greater demands on the QB position than most systems. I think it's similar in one respect to how the Colts offense runs with Manning. Watch Manning and how much pre-snap activity that goes on at the line changing formations and plays based on defensive alignments. This could be a system that simply requires more than our QB's can manage or have had the opportunity to learn.

I love what I saw out of Brennan, though without seeing him running the first team offense against a solid first team defense, he's still a question mark. It seems to me that Zorn's quick, short passing attack requires an accurate down field passing threat to keep the D honest, and without that threat, his offense is easily defended against. Brennan seemed to be the only one of the three to make those deeper throws count.

[crazyhorse1]

1. Washington: Todd Collins -- The unspoken truth in D.C. is that the veteran would run Jim Zorn's offense better today than starter Jason Campbell, who I still think might struggle in his transition to the West Coast style attack. It was Collins, not Campbell, who orchestrated the Redskins' four-game late season winning streak and wild-card playoff berth last year.

Banks isn't paying attention.
This is a spoken 'truth', not an unspoken one. No. That would mean Banks still isn't paying attention. Maybe he should have written about best 3rd string QB / clipboardholders. I think the Redskins win that list too. What's the prize? That some 'fans' start wishing for the starter to go out? Look what Banks started. Wait. That started long before this article. Nevermind.

I think that IF the Redskins need to call on a backup QB this season, it had better be the one who can run for his life.
Jason Campbell won't be out for ineffectiveness. He'll be out because the offensive line couldn't block anyone.

Just a thought. Collins gets rid of the ball quicker than Campbell and is more accurate. If he line continues its awful play, we should probably start Collins against the giants. The first three receivers on the field should be ey, Davis, and McMullen.

[VetSkinsFan]

1. Washington: Todd Collins -- The unspoken truth in D.C. is that the veteran would run Jim Zorn's offense better today than starter Jason Campbell, who I still think might struggle in his transition to the West Coast style attack. It was Collins, not Campbell, who orchestrated the Redskins' four-game late season winning streak and wild-card playoff berth last year.

Banks isn't paying attention.
This is a spoken 'truth', not an unspoken one. No. That would mean Banks still isn't paying attention. Maybe he should have written about best 3rd string QB / clipboardholders. I think the Redskins win that list too. What's the prize? That some 'fans' start wishing for the starter to go out? Look what Banks started. Wait. That started long before this article. Nevermind.

I think that IF the Redskins need to call on a backup QB this season, it had better be the one who can run for his life.
Jason Campbell won't be out for ineffectiveness. He'll be out because the offensive line couldn't block anyone.

Just a thought. Collins gets rid of the ball quicker than Campbell and is more accurate. If he line continues its awful play, we should probably start Collins against the giants. The first three receivers on the field should be ey, Davis, and McMullen.

Personally, I'd rather have Colt than Collins with that much time to game plan. Collins just doesn't do it for me. He's not mobile and he really can't thow downfield like we need to.

[SkinsFreak]

Are you guys seriously suggesting they bench Campbell for Collins or Brennan before the season even starts? That's a joke right?

Come on guys, Campbell hasn't done anything to deserve being benched. Campbell was more than impressive in the first three games. So he missed on a few passes against the Panthers, it's happens, especially with no help from the o-line. Every QB misses on passes now and then. It's not like JC went out there and threw a bunch of int's.

And no, I don't think it's Zorn's system that's flawed for our QB's. Zorn's version of the west coast will be very similar to Borges version of the WCO that Jason ran so successfully at Auburn his senior year. That version of the WCO at Auburn was oriented around two great running backs in Williams and Brown. Borges tweaked the WCO he employed to utilize the teams strengths with his two good RB's. They dubbed his version of the WCO at Auburn the 'Gulf Coast Offense'. Zorn will probably do something very similar. The current Redskins also have a couple of good RB's and Zorn's version will emphasis a lot of run packages.

Collins is nowhere near as talented as Campbell, that's why he's been a career back-up. If JC struggles through mid season, then it might be time to make a switch. But one preseason game where the entire team struggled is not the time to hit the panic button. Collins is a career back-up for a reason, and I personally trust Zorn, a former NFL QB himself, to wisely judge the best man to lead this team, and that's not Collins. For now, Collins is a good #2 back-up, as the article eludes to. That is, of course, until Brennan gets up to speed, as I think Colt will eventually be a better back-up than Collins.

[MDSKINSFAN]

thats hilarious. I guess we could have the best number 3 when its all said and done as well.

could be. we have the best two QB's that never play. thats good.

[GSPODS]

Are you guys seriously suggesting they bench Campbell for Collins or Brennan before the season even starts? That's a joke right?

Come on guys, Campbell hasn't done anything to deserve being benched. Campbell was more than impressive in the first three games. So he missed on a few passes against the Panthers, it's happens, especially with no help from the o-line. Every QB misses on passes now and then. It's not like JC went out there and threw a bunch of int's.

And no, I don't think it's Zorn's system that's flawed for our QB's. Zorn's version of the west coast will be very similar to Borges version of the WCO that Jason ran so successfully at Auburn his senior year. That version of the WCO at Auburn was oriented around two great running backs in Williams and Brown. Borges tweaked the WCO he employed to utilize the teams strengths with his two good RB's. They dubbed his version of the WCO at Auburn the 'Gulf Coast Offense'. Zorn will probably do something very similar. The current Redskins also have a couple of good RB's and Zorn's version will emphasis a lot of run packages.

Collins is nowhere near as talented as Campbell, that's why he's been a career back-up. If JC struggles through mid season, then it might be time to make a switch. But one preseason game where the entire team struggled is not the time to hit the panic button. Collins is a career back-up for a reason, and I personally trust Zorn, a former NFL QB himself, to wisely judge the best man to lead this team, and that's not Collins. For now, Collins is a good #2 back-up, as the article eludes to. That is, of course, until Brennan gets up to speed, as I think Colt will eventually be a better back-up than Collins.

What I am suggesting, in the spirit of this thread, is that IF the season is a lost cause, meaning Jason Campbell isn't "The Answer", then Todd Collins certainly isn't the long-term answer, so yes, it should then be Colt Brennan time, for better or worse. If it comes to this scenario, there can't be much of a worse, but I was taught to never challenge if things can get worse ...

[SkinsFreak]

IF the season is a lost cause, meaning Jason Campbell isn't "The Answer", then Todd Collins certainly isn't the long-term answer, so yes, it should then be Colt Brennan time, for better or worse.

I absolutely agree with that, but only if the season is over and it's been determined Jason in not worthy of starting caliber status. Although I don't believe that will happen and I think Jason has the talent and the potential. I would also think, given some time, much like with Hasselbeck, Zorn will coach up Jason into a better than average QB.

But some others here were suggesting we bench Campbell and start Collins at this point. As I said, Collins is a good back-up, but that's the extent of his abilities. His career is proof of that.

[GSPODS]

IF the season is a lost cause, meaning Jason Campbell isn't "The Answer", then Todd Collins certainly isn't the long-term answer, so yes, it should then be Colt Brennan time, for better or worse.

I absolutely agree with that, but only if the season is over and it's been determined Jason in not worthy of starting caliber status. Although I don't believe that will happen and I think Jason has the talent and the potential. I would also think, given some time, much like with Hasselbeck, Zorn will coach up Jason into a better than average QB.

But some others here were suggesting we bench Campbell and start Collins at this point. As I said, Collins is a good back-up, but that's the extent of his abilities. His career is proof of that.

I agree Jason Campbell has the talent and the potential. I think asking any QB to change systems and philosophies every season is asking too much. Every top tier QB and most above average one have only played in one system for their entire careers, or perhaps two. But certainly not six or seven. I agree that, if given more than one season to do so, Jim Zorn will get the most out of Jason Campbell, who is at least as talented as Matt Hasselbeck. I also agree that Todd Collins usefulness and his shelf life are limited. He is a great asset as a short-term veteran backup and as a mentor, but he is about the last long-term solution I'd consider.
Any suggestion of benching Jason Campbell for anyone currently on the Redskins roster is ridiculous.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Are you guys seriously suggesting they bench Campbell for Collins or Brennan before the season even starts? That's a joke right?

A firm grasp of the obvious. We share that my friend. Sadly....

[RayNAustin]

Are you guys seriously suggesting they bench Campbell for Collins or Brennan before the season even starts? That's a joke right?

Come on guys, Campbell hasn't done anything to deserve being benched. Campbell was more than impressive in the first three games. So he missed on a few passes against the Panthers, it's happens, especially with no help from the o-line. Every QB misses on passes now and then. It's not like JC

went out there and threw a bunch of int's.

What has he done to be anointed "The One" and the automatic starter? More than impressive you say? So he completed 75% of the passes of 5 yards or shorter, and 0% down field? I'm not the least bit impresssed with that. Far from being more than impressive, he's been consistently inconsistent at best from day one, and at worst, he's been totally inept and unable to put points on the board, as in ALL OF LAST YEAR. Remember 7 1/2 games without a TD to a WR?

The Panthers game was an instant replay of many games last year....the difference was that the defense somehow managed to match the offense's ineptness last week (no small feat).

And no, I don't think it's Zorn's system that's flawed for our QB's. Zorn's version of the west coast will be very similar to Borges version of the WCO that Jason ran so successfully at Auburn his senior year. That version of the WCO at Auburn was oriented around two great running backs in Williams and Brown. Borges tweaked the WCO he employed to utilize the teams strengths with his two good RB's. They dubbed his version of the WCO at Auburn the 'Gulf Coast Offense'. Zorn will probably do something very similar. The current Redskins also have a couple of good RB's and Zorn's version will emphasis a lot of run packages.

I will say again....until we have someone who can consistently stretch the defense deep, this offense and it's 3 yard passes and 3 yard running plays will not be feared by good defenses who will continue to stack the box.

As for whatever college offense Jason may have run so successfully, he's not in college anymore. And he has, and continues to struggle with the basics. His deep ball is terrible....constantly overthrowing receivers. That was true in 2006, 2007 and is carrying over to 2008.

Collins is nowhere near as talented as Campbell, that's why he's been a career back-up. If JC struggles through mid season, then it might be time to make a switch. But one preseason game where the entire team struggled is not the time to hit the panic button. Collins is a career back-up for a reason, and I personally trust Zorn, a former NFL QB himself, to wisely judge the best man to lead this team, and that's not Collins. For now, Collins is a good #2 back-up, as the article eludes to. That is, of course, until Brennan gets up to speed, as I think Colt will eventually be a better back-up than Collins.

Why would you be willing to sacrifice another season for ONE PLAYER? What happened to putting on the field the players who give you the best chance to win each week? Obviously we didn't do that last year until injury forced a change.

A distinction needs to be made between "talent" and "skill". The latter being the only meaningful measure of a QB and his chances for success. Shuler had talent. Ramsey had talent, but they were not able to develop and master the "skills" required to be successful. That is where Campbell is. Sure he has talent, but little skill as can be proven by his lack of production and loosing record as a starter.

And why such a thing is so big a surprise is beyond me. The league is loaded with talent. Vince Young is far more talented athletically than Campbell, but he isn't anywhere close to being a fine QB. Michael Vick had more talent in his pinky finger than Campbell has in his entire body, and Vick never developed the skills necessary to be an elite QB....mediocrity was Vick's achievement. David Carr, Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, all of them had tremendous talent....and I wouldn't want any of them to QB my team. I'd take Rypien instead. Much less "talented", but mastered the skill necessary to be successful, and could thread a needle down field.

Campbell displays a lack of "pocket presence", and combined with his propensity to hold the ball too long results in too many sacks and turnovers. Combine that with his consistent theme of overthrowing receivers down filed, and his tendency to lock on to targets makes him just another one of the "talented" underachievers that represent the rule instead of the exception. None of these "faults" are "system" related, and the only thing a "system" can hope to do is mask those faults. So far neither Al Saunders or Jim Zorn's system seem to be able to do that for Campbell......even with a very good running game in place.

Are we not watching the same games? Am I trapped in an alternate universe for which no one else here resides?

[RayNAustin]

I betcha one thing....if that 100+ Million in player salaries each year was coming out of the Jason Campbell fan club pockets....a greater sense of urgency, and a higher standard for production would be evident. And I doubt very seriously if many would be willing to sacrifice an entire season without even attempting a change.

[Fios]

I betcha one thing....if that 100+ Million in player salaries each year was coming out of the Jason Campbell fan club pockets....a greater sense of urgency, and a higher standard for production would be evident. And I doubt very seriously if many would be willing to sacrifice an entire season without even attempting a change.

On a site that has been riddled with nonsense and odd asides, many of them mine, that might be the most pointless post I've ever read

[old-timer]

Are we not watching the same games? Am I trapped in an alternate universe for which no one else here resides?

The 'wall of denial' here is very high indeed, my friend. You can talk til you're blue in the face, and by the way your post above to SkinsFreak is excellently done. These guys, including FIOS, who adds nothing to the conversation but takes lots of little potshots, are not ready to listen to reason, however. The idea that Jason Campbell is some great future QB is almost a religion to them, in fact, sometimes they seem to think he's a great QB already, which he obviously is not.