JC and A "Fair Shake"

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:37 am

Hogs Nation,

I've been on other boards and there seems to be this "air" or perception that JC is "dead-man walking" with Zorn. It seems that some have an expectation for this guy that he should be a superstar or questioning whether or not he will be.

My take on this is like this:

1. JC is probably one of a very few or the only starting QB in this league that has had to deal with what he has over the past years. Learning new offenses every year and now being asked to change his mechanics. Manning, Brady, Palmer and the likes have not had to endure this and have been afforded some stability in their organizations and at their positions. Even Cutler and Rivers have had more stable environments than JC has.

2. Expect a few hiccups from him but not enough to kill us. He's still a young QB in a new system so he will have some "hesitation" as he get's comfortable with this position. But I don't expect him to be stupid with the ball either.

3. He doesn't have the luxury or long leash here because we are expected to win now despite a new HC. We've got basically the core talent that we've always had and we are expected to win now despite the coaching change and a new offense. No other QB that I can think of is in the position JC is in. So I think there is some pressure. As a fan of this team that has watched the most talented roster in the league underacheive over the past couple of years I have high expectations that we not only make the playoffs but get to the Super Bowl.

Now, I am not making excuses for JC or anything like that but I do expect him to be better than last year. But at the same time too, this kid has been through some things that others have not.

Your Thoughts????

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:41 am

I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:50 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

Folks on other boards I've visited.... I agree he has a nice foundation.

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:53 am

It wouldn't matter who the QB is.
This is Jim Zorn's first year working with the Redskins in any capacity. The leash isn't all that short. Somebody has nothing better to do than to stir the pot. Or smoke the pot. Or OD on shrooms. There has to be some explanation for why someone would start this type of unfounded and baseless rumor, but logic and common sense aren't it.

My 2 cents

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:54 am

roybus14 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

Folks on other boards I've visited.... I agree he has a nice foundation.

I agree. I believe Zorn will not pull any punches and if he doubted JC thus far, then it would be more obvious. Zorn has shown complete confidence in JC and his position as the starter so far. Zorn, the QB, Zorn the QB coach, and Zorn the HC sees potential in JC or I don't think JC would be starting these pre-season games.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:57 am

GSPODS wrote:It wouldn't matter who the QB is.
This is Jim Zorn's first year working with the Redskins in any capacity. The leash isn't all that short. Somebody has nothing better to do than to stir the pot. Or smoke the pot. Or OD on shrooms. There has to be some explanation for why someone would start this type of unfounded and baseless rumor, but logic and common sense aren't it.

I said the same thing. I'm just letting you know what folks on other boards have been saying. Whether it's true or untrue, that's what they are saying.....

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:02 am

roybus14 wrote:
GSPODS wrote:It wouldn't matter who the QB is.
This is Jim Zorn's first year working with the Redskins in any capacity. The leash isn't all that short. Somebody has nothing better to do than to stir the pot. Or smoke the pot. Or OD on shrooms. There has to be some explanation for why someone would start this type of unfounded and baseless rumor, but logic and common sense aren't it.

I said the same thing. I'm just letting you know what folks on other boards have been saying. Whether it's true or untrue, that's what they are saying.....

That's why I avoid other boards like the plague.
Even at its very worst, this message board blows all other Redskins boards out of the water. :rock:

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:04 am

GSPODS wrote:
roybus14 wrote:
GSPODS wrote:It wouldn't matter who the QB is.
This is Jim Zorn's first year working with the Redskins in any capacity. The leash isn't all that short. Somebody has nothing better to do than to stir the pot. Or smoke the pot. Or OD on shrooms. There has to be some explanation for why someone would start this type of unfounded and baseless rumor, but logic and common sense aren't it.

I said the same thing. I'm just letting you know what folks on other boards have been saying. Whether it's true or untrue, that's what they are saying.....

That's why I avoid other boards like the plague.
Even at its very worst, this message board blows all other Redskins boards out of the water.

You ain't lying about that!!!!

PulpExposure · Post by **PulpExposure** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:11 am

It's probably best to ignore all of the idle speculation. I agree with what has been posted here; JC appears to have Zorn's full confidence, and it seems to me that Zorn actually is a strong supporter of his.

I also have a feeling that Snyder and Cerrato like JC quite a lot; they primarily brought Zorn in as a coordinator because he was so good with QBs, after all.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:00 am

Alex Smith with the 9ers is having to learn his 4th offense this year. He was drafted the same year as Campbell. Do you endlessly hear about that from the media? No.

Certainly there's a learning curve when implementing a new offense. But I see things with Jason in the same light Zorn sees them. Jason now has a broad and comprehensive understanding of offensive football, from many perspectives. I see that as a benefit, not a negative.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I tape the games. When I go back and watch and listen to games from last year, many think Jason has a bright future in this league, based off his actions on and off the field. All you hear about regarding Jason is poise, strength and leadership, paramount assets for a starting QB. And if anyone thinks Jason hasn't demonstrated these traits on the field, they're blind.

This is a new year and a new offense. A west coast system is one that lends itself to higher QB ratings, with more higher percentage short to midrange passes verses lesser percentages associated with a deep passing game employed by Gibbs and Saunders.

It's my belief Jason has more than adequate skill sets to achieve a high level of production in Zorn's version of the west coast. But more importantly than that, Jason has the confidence, support and respect of his coaches and his teammates, and that far out weighs rhetoric spewed by some fans just because, in my opinion, they've seen some flashes from the rookie.

tribeofjudah · Post by **tribeofjudah** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:11 am

rumor mill, rumor ville

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:37 am

Alex Smith with the 9ers is having to learn his 4th offense this year. He was drafted the same year as Campbell. Do you endlessly hear about that from the media? No

You might if you were in the Bay area.

aswas71788 · Post by **aswas71788** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:16 pm

First, let me make it clear that I am not a Jason Campbell supporter but neither am I a distractor. I do acknowledge that maybe the Gibbs II era held Campbell back in development, so we shall see. I will however defend Jason Campbell as not being "a dead man walking." So far, Zorn seems to think that Jason Campbell has promise, has appointed him as the starting quarterback and is fully supporting him.

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:46 pm

aswas71788 wrote:First, let me make it clear that I am not a Jason Campbell supporter but neither am I a distractor. I do acknowledge that maybe the Gibbs II era held Campbell back in development, so we shall see. I will however defend Jason Campbell as not being "a dead man walking." So far, Zorn seems to think that Jason Campbell has promise, has appointed him as the starting quarterback and is fully supporting him.

Yep. Ýou pretty much saw the same thing with other QB´s Gibbs drafted.

Having said that, I see this as a make or break season for Campbell. Snyder and Co. will eventually run out of patience on JC if he does not perform up to his 1 round pedigree.

He obviously has all the ability in the world to be a great QB for the Redskins. I hope (and expect, really) great things from JC this season.

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:49 pm

This is his put up or shut up year. Change is part of the NFL.

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:03 pm

Jason's got nothing to worry about.

At least, not this year.

If he struggles, they may have a QB competition in Camp between him and Colt next year, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll lose his job.

Jason's learning his 5th offense, so it should be easier for him to learn Zorn's offense than Colt...he's had more practice learning offenses.

Plus it's not like the WCO is something foreign to Jason, I think he'll be fine.

To be honest, I get the feeling Zorn's gonna let the dog off the leash and allow Campbell more freedom than he had under Gibbs.

It all starts with them getting to the line with nearly 20-seconds of play-clock left.

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:12 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

I agree with this. What evidence out of Zorn can be presented suggesting this "dead man walking" theory has a bit of truth? This isn't Gibbs coming back in '04, making getting a new QB one of his first moves as head coach. Sure, Zorn drafted Brennan, but not until the 6th round, and because we really did have a legit need for a young developmental QB. When both your back-ups are on the high end of 30, that's not a long-term solution.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:17 pm

Mursilis wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

I agree with this. What evidence out of Zorn can be presented suggesting this "dead man walking" theory has a bit of truth? This isn't Gibbs coming back in '04, making getting a new QB one of his first moves as head coach. Sure, Zorn drafted Brennan, but not until the 6th round, and because we really did have a legit need for a young developmental QB. When both your back-ups are on the high end of 30, that's not a long-term solution.

I've heard a few times that Colt was more of a Vinny and "the Danny's" choice than it was JZ wanting him. Can't confirm it but it's come up a few times

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:20 pm

1niksder wrote:
Mursilis wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

I agree with this. What evidence out of Zorn can be presented suggesting this "dead man walking" theory has a bit of truth? This isn't Gibbs coming back in '04, making getting a new QB one of his first moves as head coach. Sure, Zorn drafted Brennan, but not until the 6th round, and because we really did have a legit need for a young developmental QB. When both your back-ups are on the high end of 30, that's not a long-term solution.

I've heard a few times that Colt was more of a Vinny and "the Danny's" choice than it was JZ wanting him. Can't confirm it but it's come up a few times

I find that very believable, no matter how true it is..

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:26 pm

3. He doesn't have the luxury or long leash here because we are expected to win now despite a new HC. We've got basically the core talent that we've always had and we are expected to win now despite the coaching change and a new offense. No other QB that I can think of is in the position JC is in. So I think there is some pressure. As a fan of this team that has watched the most talented roster in the league underacheive over the past couple of years I have high expectations that we not only make the playoffs but get to the Super Bowl.

Also, we have 10 starters over 30. There is pressure to win before they start to decline too much.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:35 pm

It should be mentioned that JC still does not have a full season worth of starts under his belt. Still I think he has reached the point were the game has slowed down for him. He will have a very good season this year.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:50 pm

roybus14 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

Folks on other boards I've visited.... I agree he has a nice foundation.

Those boards must be void of any intelligent fans!

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:03 pm

JSPB22 wrote:It should be mentioned that JC still does not have a full season worth of starts under his belt. Still I think he has reached the point were the game has slowed down for him. He will have a very good season this year.

He still looked slow on his reads and not confident in his choices in pre-season.

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:08 pm

Colt probably was a pick by Vinny.

Think about it, we were looking for a third stringer, we already had our starter and back-up in place, and if it weren't for Colt's injuries last year and criminal record he probably would have been a 1st or 2nd round pick.

We were in a perfect position to gamble on him in the 6th round as a project QB.

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:12 pm

1niksder wrote:
Mursilis wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

I agree with this. What evidence out of Zorn can be presented suggesting this "dead man walking" theory has a bit of truth? This isn't Gibbs coming back in '04, making getting a new QB one of his first moves as head coach. Sure, Zorn drafted Brennan, but not until the 6th round, and because we really did have a legit need for a young developmental QB. When both your back-ups are on the high end of 30, that's not a long-term solution.

I've heard a few times that Colt was more of a Vinny and "the Danny's" choice than it was JZ wanting him. Can't confirm it but it's come up a few times

Regardless, I don't question the move - injuries happen to QBs as well as anyone, and it's always nice to have a young "project" QB on the back burner sitting and learning, just in case he's needed for a longer stretch. And you never know, you may get lucky, like the Pats did with Brady. A likely future HOFer taken in the 6th round? One of the greatest steals in draft history.