2nd String QB

[VetSkinsFan]

I'll tell you what, Collins better step it up. Obviously Zorn has seen more from him in practice, but if Collins continues to struggles... I don't know...I'm not real impressed with Collins right now. He's been the sore spot of the entire offense tonight so far.

I'd rather have Colt's loose gun with confidence than Collins ineficiency and "experience."

[SkinsFreak]

I'll tell you what, Collins better step it up. Obviously Zorn has seen more from him in practice, but if Collins continues to struggles... I don't know...I'm not real impressed with Collins right now. He's been the sore spot of the entire offense tonight so far.

I'd rather have Colt's loose gun with confidence than Collins ineficiency and "experience."

I think I have to agree at this point. I know it's early, blah, blah, blah...

Colt also brings excitement to the game, and it also seemed like his teammates were excited by him. Let's see what he does tonight.

[El Mexican]

Yep, you guys are right, so I´ll rephrase my statement: ONLY if the season is lost by the last quarter of the schedule and we have no more internal QB options, we see Colt. Zorn would really have to be enamored of the kid to let him lead the team at crunch time.

This guy Colt is a rook, afterall. Nothing against him, but you guys know just how valuable NFL experience is. Brennan has minimal.

[VetSkinsFan]

Yep, you guys are right, so I´ll rephrase my statement: ONLY if the season is lost by the last quarter of the schedule and we have no more internal QB options, we see Colt. Zorn would really have to be enamored of the kid to let him lead the team at crunch time.

This guy Colt is a rook, afterall. Nothing against him, but you guys know just how valuable NFL experience is. Brennan has minimal.

Collins hasn't really shown much, though. I don't see him as the vet that can come off the bench that you would hope (See Jeff Garcia for the Eagles). Collins really doesn't have that much game time experience as you'd want for a back up, especially for a 38 yo back up.

[welch]

Predictions are a wonderful thing, especially when none of us sees practice or thinks with Zorn.

Anyone willing to speculate on the rabid rumor that Heath Shuler has been approached and asked to work back into shape, now that the Redskins have determined that Gus The Bus Frerotte has an incurable desire to bang his head into concrete walls? A link pointed me to www.coldstove.aga.slapmesilly.ru, but I can reach it.

Maybe a prank???

[Gibbs4Life]

Anyone who watched our playoff game last year knows Collins has severe limitations, however he is unfortunately our best option at #2 right now, I was alittle dissapointed in Colt Brennan against the bills, perhaps he set the bar too high with his first performance in Canton, but I would've like the legend to have continued. I think in the end it was probably healthy for our team to come out today and struggle alittle bit, that gives coaches some things to harp on, who knows how cocky we would've been if we just anihilated buffalo.

[VetSkinsFan]

Predictions are a wonderful thing, especially when none of us sees practice or thinks with Zorn.

Anyone willing to speculate on the rabid rumor that Heath Shuler has been approached and asked to work back into shape, now that the Redskins have determined that Gus The Bus Frerotte has an incurable desire to bang his head into concrete walls? A link pointed me to www.coldstove.aga.slapmesilly.ru, but I can reach it.

Maybe a prank???

I speculate it's a waste of our time

[KazooSkinsFan]

There's no way you keep someone on the roster that you have no intention under any circumstances to play

Of course there is. To develop him

If he's on the 53 man roster, then he's got a chance to play. That's what the PS would be for....

PS squad players
- Don't make an NFL salary
- Other teams can sign them and you have to activate them or lose them
- Don't go to the games so you can't even get them some NFL exposure in scrub work and can't stand on the sidelines with a clipboard getting real game situation experience while they learn.

PS is to have some emergency depth and the P is for "Practice." They need more then 53 guys to run efficient practices and the owners found a cheap way to do that that gives bubble marginal kids a shot at the NFL.

So here's what you're proposing. We only pay Colt's lunch money while he hopes someone else signs him so he can earn an NFL salary and then he'll find out if we or someone else is going to pay that. He can't go to games as part of the team. Oh, and he's supposed to focus on learning to be an NFL quarterback with the Skins.

I'm a Red Wing fan in hockey. Our bright shining future in Goalie is Jimmy Howard. He's a college grad (Maine) and is about to go to the minors for his third straight year. For most NFL positions, the play a little and learn a lot for youngsters on the roster works. For QB? No. Why do you think the norm for almost every NFL team is exactly what we have now? A starter, a backup, a kid? You don't just come in and play QB. Even #1 overall picks frequently hold a clip board for a year. And we're talking about a late round pick.

There are not 32 people in the country worthy of starting for an NFL team. That means you have to GROOM people. How you do that is exactly as I described. Think about the choice. We have 2 QBs we would in fact start, JC and Collins. After that, here's your choice:

- A vet with experience you see no future in
- A kid with promise you don't want to start (at this time)

Who would you keep on your roster as a THIRD quarterback? On the other hand, who would you hand the ball to if options 1 (JC) and 2 (Collins) go down? It makes perfect sense. Keeping the vet with experience on your roster as #3 makes NO sense just because you'd turn to him before the kid in the most unusual of circumstances that you have 2 QBs injured.

[BossHog]

I'm not going to get into the way of your two's discussion, but just few things to add to the fire:

About 1/3 of the NFL teams only had TWO QB's on their roster last year, with all of them having a third on their practice squad. With the new added bonus of a quarterback on the PS NOT actually counting against the PS number, it's a practice being employed by more teams.

Since the ONLY thing that third quarterback is, is a 46th man on the regular 45-man game day roster that can ONLY play when you take out one and two, many teams don't see much value in the spot on the roster.



And separately, if you only have 3 QB's on your TOTAL roster, whether he's the 3rd on the active roster, or the 3rd on the PS will make absolutely no difference on the practice time that he gets.

[VetSkinsFan]

There's no way you keep someone on the roster that you have no intention under any circumstances to play

Of course there is. To develop him

If he's on the 53 man roster, then he's got a chance to play. That's what the PS would be for....

PS squad players
- Don't make an NFL salary
- Other teams can sign them and you have to activate them or lose them
- Don't go to the games so you can't even get them some NFL exposure in scrub work and can't stand on the sidelines with a clipboard getting real game situation experience while they learn.

PS is to have some emergency depth and the P is for "Practice." They need more then 53 guys to run efficient practices and the owners found a cheap way to do that that gives bubble marginal kids a shot at the NFL.

So here's what you're proposing. We only pay Colt's lunch money while he hopes someone else signs him so he can earn an NFL salary and then he'll find out if we or someone else is going to pay that. He can't go to games as part of the team. Oh, and he's supposed to focus on learning to be an NFL quarterback with the Skins.

I'm a Red Wing fan in hockey. Our bright shining future in Goalie is Jimmy Howard. He's a college grad (Maine) and is about to go to the minors for his third straight year. For most NFL positions, the play a little and learn a lot for youngsters on the roster works. For QB? No. Why do you think the norm for almost every NFL team is exactly what we have now? A starter, a backup, a kid? You don't just come in and play QB. Even #1 overall picks frequently hold a clip board for a year. And we're talking about a late round pick.

There are not 32 people in the country worthy of starting for an NFL team. That means you have to GROOM people. How you do that is exactly as I described. Think about the choice. We have 2 QBs we would in fact start, JC and Collins. After that, here's your choice:

- A vet with experience you see no future in
- A kid with promise you don't want to start (at this time)

Who would you keep on your roster as a THIRD quarterback? On the other hand, who would you hand the ball to if options 1 (JC) and 2 (Collins) go down? It makes perfect sense. Keeping the vet with experience on your roster as #3 makes NO sense just because you'd turn to him before the kid in the most unusual of circumstances that you have 2 QBs injured.

I don't know where your disconnect is, maybe you should read the whole thread.

In theory, the 3rd string doesn't play, he rides the pine with that cool clip board. He gets to practice with the team, and he gets to hang out with the big boys. He gets to sit on the sidelines, get up close and personal sideline show so he can learn as much as he can. He can talk to the starter, say, JC in this example, about this or that, whatever he had questions about. he can siton TC's lap and listen to old war stories of the time TC played before Colt hit puberty. I keep him 3rd string.
There is a reason, some tangible or intangible, that anyone is drafted. If he's worth keeping, he's worth putting effort into. That include rookie 3rd string QB that are still raw. ALL OF IT is about grooming, whether a PS guy (which is as you said, emergency and long shots) or a young guy in competition for a starting position.


And as for salaries....

Practice squad players practice alongside regular roster players during the week; however they are not allowed to play in actual games. They can be paid considerably less than active squad players: the minimum salary from 2008 to 2010 is $5,200 per week (2008-2010)[1] for 17 weeks, or $88,400 per season, in comparison to the NFL minimum rookie salary of $285,000. (Some practice squad players are paid considerably more, however: in 2006, the New England Patriots paid third-year player Billy Yates the full $425,000 he would have earned on the active roster.)[2]They are also ineligible for many fringe benefits such as service time, pensions, and the like. They hope to be promoted to the active roster either by their current team, or by another team who is scouting them. They retain free agent status and may sign with any team they wish without compensation to the original team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_team

[KazooSkinsFan]

I'm not going to get into the way of your two's discussion, but just few things to add to the fire:

About 1/3 of the NFL teams only had TWO QB's on their roster last year, with all of them having a third on their practice squad. With the new added bonus of a quarterback on the PS NOT actually counting against the PS number, it's a practice being employed by more teams.

Since the ONLY thing that third quarterback is, is a 46th man on the regular 45-man game day roster that can ONLY play when you take out one and two, many teams don't see much value in the spot on the roster.



And separately, if you only have 3 QB's on your TOTAL roster, whether he's the 3rd on the active roster, or the 3rd on the PS will make absolutely no difference on the practice time that he gets.

It's not just the "philosophy." A key consideration is WHO you have a choice to be the third quarterback. If you have a young guy with potential who's likely to be signed by someone else and/or you want to be actually on the sidelines to help their development then it makes sense to carry them on the 45 so they can focus on learning. If you don't have a guy you see worth grooming and you just need a third guy for practice you go the 2 QB route.

Note I didn't say it's "not" the philosophy, I said it's not "just" the philosophy. There are teams that are going to try harder to draft a QB late round with the potential. I'm guessing the 2/3 who do have a 3rd QB on the roster are more likely to do that. Why draft a late round QB and then put them on the PS with the downsides?

[KazooSkinsFan]

I don't know where your disconnect is, maybe you should read the whole thread

Done. Maybe you should read my posts.

There is a reason, some tangible or intangible, that anyone is drafted. If he's worth keeping, he's worth putting effort into. That include rookie 3rd string QB that are still raw. ALL OF IT is about grooming, whether a PS guy (which is as you said, emergency and long shots) or a young guy in competition for a starting position.

Exactly. You have a youngster with talent who MAY one day be capable of playing in the NFL. You can't sign him and groom him unless you won't put him in for real with the season on the line today? NFL Quarterback? One of the toughest jobs in sports?

And as for salaries....

Practice squad players practice alongside regular roster players during the week; however they are not allowed to play in actual games. They can be paid considerably less than active squad players: the minimum salary from 2008 to 2010 is $5,200 per week (2008-2010)[1] for 17 weeks, or $88,400 per season, in comparison to the NFL minimum rookie salary of $285,000. (Some practice squad players are paid considerably more, however: in 2006, the New England Patriots paid third-year player Billy Yates the full $425,000 he would have earned on the active roster.)[2]They are also ineligible for many fringe benefits such as service time, pensions, and the like. They hope to be promoted to the active roster either by their current team, or by another team who is scouting them. They retain free agent status and may sign with any team they wish without compensation to the original team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_team

OK, so we "can" pay him more. That wouldn't solve the rest of it. He wouldn't be in game situations, other teams could claim him...

[1niksder]

Anyone who watched our playoff game last year knows Collins has severe limitations, however he is unfortunately our best option at #2 right now, I was alittle dissapointed in Colt Brennan against the bills, perhaps he set the bar too high with his first performance in Canton, but I would've like the legend to have continued. I think in the end it was probably healthy for our team to come out today and struggle alittle bit, that gives coaches some things to harp on, who knows how cocky we would've been if we just anihilated buffalo.

Collins's two drives provided flashes of what he does best -- he was cool in the pocket, able to find secondary targets -- but was hardly seamless. He engineered an eight play, 65-yard touchdown drive, capped by a 12-yard toss to tailback Ladell Betts, though twice Washington had to burn timeouts on the march, leaving the Redskins out of timeouts with 10 minutes still left in the half.

Collins returned in the two-minute offense and was intercepted, which led to a score. Two receivers hovered in the vicinity of the pass, but the ball sailed over the head of Maurice Mann; Billy McMullen was five yards deeper downfield and was the intended target, Zorn said. But McMullen cut inside and the ball tailed outside, to Buffalo's Ashton Youboty.

The market spoke this offseason, with Jacksonville Collins's other strongest suitor, and then only as a backup to David Garrard. After going 10 years between starts, then resuscitating his career with a glorious December, there is no shame in playing understudy to Campbell now.

There are some interesting quotes in Awkward Moments Are Lessons Learned for the Understudy

[SkinsFreak]

I gotta be honest here, in the two first games, Collins has been the low point for me. I know what he did for us last year, but this year is a different situation. He'll still be the number two guy, but I just hope he improves a bit. His passes have been off the mark, and some were waaaay off the mark. His dump-off passes were fine, but some others thrown beyond the line of scrimmage were awful. He doesn't move very well either.