Who were the best Redskins offensive linemen of all time?
I have my say at:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/ ... sive-line/
Do you agree or do you think I'm full of it! Tell me in the comment box below the story.
Best Redskins Offensive Linemen of all time
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RobJanis
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Chris Samuels belongs on the list.
The man went 13 games without giving up a sack in his second year in the league. He's had the Pro Bowls and the alternate Pro Bowls and has only missed four starts in 128 games. He also won the starting left tackle position as a rookie and went the first 5 games without giving up a sack. It isn't Samuels fault he doesn't have the SuperBowl rings. He's one of the best, and every player who goes against him says so.
The man went 13 games without giving up a sack in his second year in the league. He's had the Pro Bowls and the alternate Pro Bowls and has only missed four starts in 128 games. He also won the starting left tackle position as a rookie and went the first 5 games without giving up a sack. It isn't Samuels fault he doesn't have the SuperBowl rings. He's one of the best, and every player who goes against him says so.
My choices are:
C- Len Hauss 64-77
G- Russ Grimm 81-91
G- Vince Promuto 60-70
T- Chris Samuels 00-present
T- Lachey 88-95
There are probably some deserving players from the 30's & 40's But I don't remember them. From what I have read, Al DeMao deserves consideration at C, but he retired in 53, 2 yrs before I started following the Skins.
C- Len Hauss 64-77
G- Russ Grimm 81-91
G- Vince Promuto 60-70
T- Chris Samuels 00-present
T- Lachey 88-95
There are probably some deserving players from the 30's & 40's But I don't remember them. From what I have read, Al DeMao deserves consideration at C, but he retired in 53, 2 yrs before I started following the Skins.
Skins fan since '55
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Countertrey
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John Manfreda
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NO way Samuals should be on that, he plays horrible in the playoffs. He was solid in the begining of his career but thats because our intererior was so bad that he looked okay. We can't run block behind him, we always have to run to the right side. He makes some of his pro bowls off reputation. You were right to keep Samuals off that list. Any time he goes up against great De's he gets eaten alive, Jason Taylor this year, gave up two sacks, Jared Allen, he looked like crap against the Seahawks in the playoffs. The list seemed fine.
I read the article to say that Rob was describing the best unit...he best OL that played as a group.
'91 was formidable, especially when you consider that Russ Grimm and Mark Addickes were the reserves. The '91 team had power, skill, experience, and depth.
The original Hogs have to be number two, and close to the '91 team. Two differences:
- Lachey could shut down Lawrence Taylor all by himself. Lachey was big and powerful, but also nimble. The Giants got so frustrated that they began to move Taylor away from Lachey, or send him behind another rusher who engaged Lachey so Taylor didn't have to tangle with Big Jim.
- The original Hogs did not have so much depth
A third consideration, arguing the other way: the original Hogs were far ahead of all defenses for about three seasons. Not even close. The '91 team had more receivers, more flexibility in the pass, but the Original Hogs dominated opponents to a degree that I can't remember outside of college football -- which is not really an evenly-competitive sport.
Look at the game-by-game stats for the four playoff games leading to SB 17, and then at the stats for each game in the '83 regular season. Compare first downs and time-of-possession: typical: 40 minutes Redskins, 20 minutes opponents. Likewise, 25 or more 1D's Redskins, 10 1D's opponents (sorry, this is from memory, but the proportions are right.)
Concusion (a): two great OL's, hard to pick, but both far better than all the defenses they played.
(b) Picking individual players is tough, because the OL is one coordinated group. Pullout on player, and the whole group looks bad.
(c) Afterthought: one advantage of the '91 Hogs over the '82/'83 Hogs is the versatility. They could change positions. Was Raleigh Mac "really" a center, guard, or emergency tackle? Was Big Joe really a RT or OG?
'91 was formidable, especially when you consider that Russ Grimm and Mark Addickes were the reserves. The '91 team had power, skill, experience, and depth.
The original Hogs have to be number two, and close to the '91 team. Two differences:
- Lachey could shut down Lawrence Taylor all by himself. Lachey was big and powerful, but also nimble. The Giants got so frustrated that they began to move Taylor away from Lachey, or send him behind another rusher who engaged Lachey so Taylor didn't have to tangle with Big Jim.
- The original Hogs did not have so much depth
A third consideration, arguing the other way: the original Hogs were far ahead of all defenses for about three seasons. Not even close. The '91 team had more receivers, more flexibility in the pass, but the Original Hogs dominated opponents to a degree that I can't remember outside of college football -- which is not really an evenly-competitive sport.
Look at the game-by-game stats for the four playoff games leading to SB 17, and then at the stats for each game in the '83 regular season. Compare first downs and time-of-possession: typical: 40 minutes Redskins, 20 minutes opponents. Likewise, 25 or more 1D's Redskins, 10 1D's opponents (sorry, this is from memory, but the proportions are right.)
Concusion (a): two great OL's, hard to pick, but both far better than all the defenses they played.
(b) Picking individual players is tough, because the OL is one coordinated group. Pullout on player, and the whole group looks bad.
(c) Afterthought: one advantage of the '91 Hogs over the '82/'83 Hogs is the versatility. They could change positions. Was Raleigh Mac "really" a center, guard, or emergency tackle? Was Big Joe really a RT or OG?
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VetSkinsFan
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Another thing that made the Hogs so good was that they were the biggest O-Line in the league. When they blew up the Broncos, the Broncos had the smallest D-Line in the league. When all other things are even, the Broncos just didn't have enough to play with the big boys.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
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The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
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El Mexican
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[quote="welch"]I read the article to say that Rob was describing the best unit...he best OL that played as a group.
'91 was formidable, especially when you consider that Russ Grimm and Mark Addickes were the reserves. The '91 team had power, skill, experience, and depth.
The original Hogs have to be number two, and close to the '91 team. Two differences:
- Lachey could shut down Lawrence Taylor all by himself. Lachey was big and powerful, but also nimble. The Giants got so frustrated that they began to move Taylor away from Lachey, or send him behind another rusher who engaged Lachey so Taylor didn't have to tangle with Big Jim.
- The original Hogs did not have so much depth
A third consideration, arguing the other way: the original Hogs were far ahead of all defenses for about three seasons. Not even close. The '91 team had more receivers, more flexibility in the pass, but the Original Hogs dominated opponents to a degree that I can't remember outside of college football -- which is not really an evenly-competitive sport.
Look at the game-by-game stats for the four playoff games leading to SB 17, and then at the stats for each game in the '83 regular season. Compare first downs and time-of-possession: typical: 40 minutes Redskins, 20 minutes opponents. Likewise, 25 or more 1D's Redskins, 10 1D's opponents (sorry, this is from memory, but the proportions are right.)
Concusion (a): two great OL's, hard to pick, but both far better than all the defenses they played.
(b) Picking individual players is tough, because the OL is one coordinated group. Pullout on player, and the whole group looks bad.
(c) Afterthought: one advantage of the '91 Hogs over the '82/'83 Hogs is the versatility. They could change positions. Was Raleigh Mac "really" a center, guard, or emergency tackle? Was Big Joe really a RT or OG?[/quote]
Humbly, another consideration on why the ´91 Hogs made for a better group: the QB position.
Rypien was much less nimble than Theismann and the '91 team allowed only 9 sacks (2 of those are on J. Ruthedge)! They were also first in scoring that year. The 83 regular season team, by comparison, allowed 30 plus sacks, although they set the then long-standing record for most points scored.
Another consideration: that same ´91 line allowed a higher YPC (yards per catch) than the '83 one: 14.4 to 13.5. Both of this averages are outstanding, still I clearly remember the '91 team more "bomb-friendly" than the previously mentioned '83 one.
This higher YPC average is indicative of one thing: Rypien had to hold on to the ball for more seconds to let the play develop and complete for those big gains. It stills amazes me to this day that Rypien was only sacked 7 times that entire regular season (has that even bean achieved to this day?). Rypien was not a very athletic QB when forced to run or scramble with the ball, no where near Theismann at least.
'91 was formidable, especially when you consider that Russ Grimm and Mark Addickes were the reserves. The '91 team had power, skill, experience, and depth.
The original Hogs have to be number two, and close to the '91 team. Two differences:
- Lachey could shut down Lawrence Taylor all by himself. Lachey was big and powerful, but also nimble. The Giants got so frustrated that they began to move Taylor away from Lachey, or send him behind another rusher who engaged Lachey so Taylor didn't have to tangle with Big Jim.
- The original Hogs did not have so much depth
A third consideration, arguing the other way: the original Hogs were far ahead of all defenses for about three seasons. Not even close. The '91 team had more receivers, more flexibility in the pass, but the Original Hogs dominated opponents to a degree that I can't remember outside of college football -- which is not really an evenly-competitive sport.
Look at the game-by-game stats for the four playoff games leading to SB 17, and then at the stats for each game in the '83 regular season. Compare first downs and time-of-possession: typical: 40 minutes Redskins, 20 minutes opponents. Likewise, 25 or more 1D's Redskins, 10 1D's opponents (sorry, this is from memory, but the proportions are right.)
Concusion (a): two great OL's, hard to pick, but both far better than all the defenses they played.
(b) Picking individual players is tough, because the OL is one coordinated group. Pullout on player, and the whole group looks bad.
(c) Afterthought: one advantage of the '91 Hogs over the '82/'83 Hogs is the versatility. They could change positions. Was Raleigh Mac "really" a center, guard, or emergency tackle? Was Big Joe really a RT or OG?[/quote]
Humbly, another consideration on why the ´91 Hogs made for a better group: the QB position.
Rypien was much less nimble than Theismann and the '91 team allowed only 9 sacks (2 of those are on J. Ruthedge)! They were also first in scoring that year. The 83 regular season team, by comparison, allowed 30 plus sacks, although they set the then long-standing record for most points scored.
Another consideration: that same ´91 line allowed a higher YPC (yards per catch) than the '83 one: 14.4 to 13.5. Both of this averages are outstanding, still I clearly remember the '91 team more "bomb-friendly" than the previously mentioned '83 one.
This higher YPC average is indicative of one thing: Rypien had to hold on to the ball for more seconds to let the play develop and complete for those big gains. It stills amazes me to this day that Rypien was only sacked 7 times that entire regular season (has that even bean achieved to this day?). Rypien was not a very athletic QB when forced to run or scramble with the ball, no where near Theismann at least.
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USAFSkinFan
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Can't argue with that number, although you can stare at the ground yardage that Riggins and Washington got in '83, and in the '82 season playoffs.
Maybe the playoffs before SB 17 are the more remarkable because Art Monk was hurt, and Joe Washington was hurt, so every team knew that Joey T was going to hand the ball to Riggins. And it didn't matter.
On the whole, I think that defenses were stronger in '91, but the '91 Hogs were more flexible. Nine sacks is quite a number.
Maybe the playoffs before SB 17 are the more remarkable because Art Monk was hurt, and Joe Washington was hurt, so every team knew that Joey T was going to hand the ball to Riggins. And it didn't matter.
On the whole, I think that defenses were stronger in '91, but the '91 Hogs were more flexible. Nine sacks is quite a number.
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Countertrey
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Nine sacks is quite a number.
I'm pretty sure that 3 of them came in one game at the end of the year, when Gibbs was resting starters, and getting game time for backups. I'm too darned lazy to look it up, though.
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"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
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I do remember that Jerry Glanville called the all-hands blitz on almost every play during the regular-season Falcons-Redskins game. They never touched Rypien, who had thrown for so many yards by the middle of the third quarter that he was about to break Sammy Baugh's all-time single-game yardage record.
Rypien took himself out, saying that a yardage record wasn't nearly as important as winning a game and staying healthy for the next one.
By the way, when Patriot fans (booo!) claimed that Glanville told them that Gibbs had run up the score on the Falcons, this was the game.
Important note: in the second half, the Hogs kept asking the Falcons to quit playing "kill the QB", since the Redskins were gaining so much yardage even with Jeff Rutledge at QB, and the Skins couldn't help scoring when the Falcons blitzed almost all their DBs.
Rypien took himself out, saying that a yardage record wasn't nearly as important as winning a game and staying healthy for the next one.
By the way, when Patriot fans (booo!) claimed that Glanville told them that Gibbs had run up the score on the Falcons, this was the game.
Important note: in the second half, the Hogs kept asking the Falcons to quit playing "kill the QB", since the Redskins were gaining so much yardage even with Jeff Rutledge at QB, and the Skins couldn't help scoring when the Falcons blitzed almost all their DBs.
91 Skins all the way.
the opposing defensive line would have at least two guys on there back almost every play. Take a look at the SuperBowl tape and you just think dominance when you watch. 9 sacks all season long is own age of the the whole league.
the opposing defensive line would have at least two guys on there back almost every play. Take a look at the SuperBowl tape and you just think dominance when you watch. 9 sacks all season long is own age of the the whole league.
Sean Taylor starting free safety Heavens team!
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El Mexican
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Ryp was sacked only SEVEN times that ´91 season. The other two are on Jeff R.
I pose this question again: has that EVER been acomplished by another team? It´s amazing, really.
You can check out the 91 stats here:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... s/1991.htm
I pose this question again: has that EVER been acomplished by another team? It´s amazing, really.
You can check out the 91 stats here:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... s/1991.htm