Riggo's Place In History

[HogInSlop]

84 should be on the "unofficially retired" thread: there will never, ever be another Gary Clark, and seeing anyone else (like the aforementioned stiff Jacobs) wearing that number just doesn't seem right......

Along with #44...there's only one Riggo...(although ey comes close!)

[VetSkinsFan]

84 should be on the "unofficially retired" thread: there will never, ever be another Gary Clark, and seeing anyone else (like the aforementioned stiff Jacobs) wearing that number just doesn't seem right......

Along with #44...there's only one Riggo...(although ey comes close!)

ey comes close to Riggo? Please elaborate.

[HogInSlop]

84 should be on the "unofficially retired" thread: there will never, ever be another Gary Clark, and seeing anyone else (like the aforementioned stiff Jacobs) wearing that number just doesn't seem right......

Along with #44...there's only one Riggo...(although ey comes close!)

ey comes close to Riggo? Please elaborate.

You clearly haven't read his blog. All he needs to do is pinch Sanrda Day O'Connor on the arse...

[Countertrey]

Cooley comes close to Riggo? Please elaborate.

Can I have a little more of that, please?

[GSPODS]

I think this one is closer to ey

[Countertrey]

Uncanny. Is it possible to be reincarnated while you are still alive?





I mean, this IS Riggo... it could happen.

[yupchagee]

Uncanny. Is it possible to be reincarnated while you are still alive?





I mean, this IS Riggo... it could happen.

No, but they have made HUGE advances in cloning

[VetSkinsFan]

Cooley comes close to Riggo? Please elaborate.

Can I have a little more of that, please?

ey's no small guy, he's going to break tackles.....but he's still no Riggo.

[GSPODS]

Without the play pictured, Riggo is no Riggo. One 4th and 2 made Riggo's career. Watch the play. At 0:27 seconds, Clint Didier blew up the blitzing safety who was right where the play was going. Look at the position of Miami's defensive front seven. Every one of them was looking at the turf. There were only two Miami players left standing, #47 and #28. Riggins gets way too much credit for running over a 5'11", 190lb cornerback who didn't even start for the Dolphins in 1982.

The Redskins will have to get to the SuperBowl for Chris ey to have the same opportunity. But ey has already proven that, given the chance, he will produce the same result.

OK. "Riggo" is a Redskins legend, and there is less than a snowball's chance in hell that I'm going to convince anyone on this message board otherwise. Objectively, without "The Play", Riggins is a good player, but not a Redskins legend.

Riggins had been in the NFL 11 years when he made this play. By the time ey is in his 11th year, I have no doubt he will have his own legendary play for Redskins faithful to live vicariously through, as we have been doing with the Riggins play for 26 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8cexwNdeyQ

[VetSkinsFan]

Without the play pictured, Riggo is no Riggo. One 4th and 2 made Riggo's career. Watch the play. At 0:27 seconds, Clint Didier blew up the blitzing safety who was right where the play was going. Look at the position of Miami's defensive front seven. Every one of them was looking at the turf. There were only two Miami players left standing, #47 and #28. Riggins gets way too much credit for running over a 5'11", 190lb cornerback who didn't even start for the Dolphins in 1982.

The Redskins will have to get to the SuperBowl for Chris ey to have the same opportunity. But ey has already proven that, given the chance, he will produce the same result.

OK. "Riggo" is a Redskins legend, and there is less than a snowball's chance in hell that I'm going to convince anyone on this message board otherwise. Objectively, without "The Play", Riggins is a good player, but not a Redskins legend.

Riggins had been in the NFL 11 years when he made this play. By the time ey is in his 11th year, I have no doubt he will have his own legendary play for Redskins faithful to live vicariously through, as we have been doing with the Riggins play for 26 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8cexwNdeyQ

"....and great players make great plays," is how the phrase goes. You can't disqualify part of a player and then re-evaluate him. That's like saying Moss is the best WR we've ever had, due to one qualifying year. A career is what makes a great player great, not 1 play.

[GSPODS]

Without the play pictured, Riggo is no Riggo. One 4th and 2 made Riggo's career. Watch the play. At 0:27 seconds, Clint Didier blew up the blitzing safety who was right where the play was going. Look at the position of Miami's defensive front seven. Every one of them was looking at the turf. There were only two Miami players left standing, #47 and #28. Riggins gets way too much credit for running over a 5'11", 190lb cornerback who didn't even start for the Dolphins in 1982.

The Redskins will have to get to the SuperBowl for Chris ey to have the same opportunity. But ey has already proven that, given the chance, he will produce the same result.

OK. "Riggo" is a Redskins legend, and there is less than a snowball's chance in hell that I'm going to convince anyone on this message board otherwise. Objectively, without "The Play", Riggins is a good player, but not a Redskins legend.

Riggins had been in the NFL 11 years when he made this play. By the time ey is in his 11th year, I have no doubt he will have his own legendary play for Redskins faithful to live vicariously through, as we have been doing with the Riggins play for 26 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8cexwNdeyQ

"....and great players make great plays," is how the phrase goes. You can't disqualify part of a player and then re-evaluate him. That's like saying Moss is the best WR we've ever had, due to one qualifying year. A career is what makes a great player great, not 1 play.

Plays. Plural. How many other plays is Riggins remembered for?

[HogInSlop]

Plays. Plural. How many other plays is Riggins remembered for?

How many great plays is Emmitt Smith rememered for? This was the logic that Dr. Z and other mediots used to keep Art Monk out of the HOF b/c he didn't have a signature "catch."

How about bowling over the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game to the tune of 140 yards and 2 TD?

How about in the 1982 post-season running for 610 yards and scoring 4 TDs in 4 games?

In 9 post-season games with the Skins, he ran for 996 yards and 12 TDs.

To call John Riggins great b/c of one play is rather short-sighted.

[GSPODS]

Plays. Plural. How many other plays is Riggins remembered for?

How many great plays is Emmitt Smith rememered for? This was the logic that Dr. Z and other mediots used to keep Art Monk out of the HOF b/c he didn't have a signature "catch."

How about bowling over the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game to the tune of 140 yards and 2 TD?

How about in the 1982 post-season running for 610 yards and scoring 4 TDs in 4 games?

In 9 post-season games with the Skins, he ran for 996 yards and 12 TDs.

To call John Riggins great b/c of one play is rather short-sighted.

I don't call Riggins great at all. Maybe I'm the only Redskins fan who doesn't.

1982 Washington Redskins 8 games, 177 rushing attempts, 553 yards, 3.1 YPC average, Long 19 yards, 3 touchdowns.

Postseason: 4 games, 136 rushing attempts, 610 yards, 4.5 YPC average, Long 43 yards, 4 touchdowns.

All those stats prove is that Riggins carried the ball almost as many times in the post-season as he did in the entire regular season. Riggins was the beneficiary of Joe Gibbs calling an average of 34 running plays per game and running behind The Hogs.

In 1982, Riggins was the 15th ranked running back by yardage and had the worst Yards Per Carry of the top 30 running backs for the regular season.

In the post-season, Riggins had nearly twice the number of rushing attempts as the second running back, Andra Franklin, and 12 more attempts per game than the second running back, Tony Dorsett.

34 carries per game behind The Hogs would have made anyone look good. All Riggins had to average with 34 carries per game was 2.94 yards per carry to reach 100 yards per game.

Oh. Emmitt Smith is remembered for multiple SuperBowls and being on the team of the 1990's, in addition to being the NFL all-time leading rusher.

And Art Monk is remembered by the media idiots as not being the first player to line up to flap his lips for sound bytes. The Hall Of Fame is a joke. The fact that idiots like Peter King and Dr. Z have any say at all in who is enshrined is enough proof. Players and coaches are the only people qualified to vote on Hall Of Fame candidates.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this, because Redskins fans are like any other football fans. Blind Faith, Blind Loyalty, Blind Reality.
This is like arguing with a Dallas fan that Barry Sanders was a better running back than Emmitt Smith. Even though Sanders was a better back, no one would ever win that argument on a Dallas message board.

[BnGhog]

I don't call Riggins great at all. Maybe I'm the only Redskins fan who doesn't.

1982 Washington Redskins 8 games, 177 rushing attempts, 553 yards, 3.1 YPC average, Long 19 yards, 3 touchdowns.

Postseason: 4 games, 136 rushing attempts, 610 yards, 4.5 YPC average, Long 43 yards, 4 touchdowns.

Stop nit picking stats G. As we have said many times before on this board, anyone can find stats to prove their point.

How come you just looked at the 1982 season?

Stats from other seasons...

1983 375 atts 1347 yards 3.6 avg 24 TDs 44 long

1984 327 atts 1239 yards 3.8 avg 14 TDs 24 long

Other stats: His rookie year didn't carry the ball much but averaged 4.3 YPC. The year after that averaged 4.6 Not bad at all.

The 1979 season he had 260 atts 1153 yards 4.4 avg 9 TD 66t Long : not bad either for that time. Keep in mind this was a time BEFORE the LTs and the Emitt Smiths. I mean, todays Payton Manning and Tom Bradys have far surpassed the Johnny U's and Joe Thiesman QBs of the past. Does that mean they were not good also? Just because others have come and out performed them now? In his time Riggo's post-season numbers were a NFL record.

[Countertrey]

Plays. Plural. How many other plays is Riggins remembered for?

How many players had an entire offensive philosophy named for them?

"The Riggo Drill"... late 3rd, and through the end of the game, once the Redskins had a lead, the O-line simply pounded the snot out of the d-line, and Riggins pounded the snot out of everyone else. Riggins left, Riggins right, Riggins up the middle.

It wasn't called "The Hogs Drill"... It certaily wasn't "The Smurfs Drill" nor the "Fun Bunch Drill" There was a reason.

To attempt to claim that one play... the biggest play in the biggest game, an icon that starts virtually every TV program about the history of the NFL, or of the SuperBowl, or of the Redskins... defines him, well that's a load. This one play was so huge, that very few other single plays in the history of the game can compare.

[GSPODS]

By my count, Riggins had 6 good seasons and 8 poor ones.

1985 Washington Redskins 12 -- 176 0677 3.8 51 8
1984 Washington Redskins 14 -- 327 1,239 3.8 24 14
1983 Washington Redskins 15 -- 375 1,347 3.6 44 24
1982 Washington Redskins 08 -- 177 0553 3.1 19 3
1981 Washington Redskins 15 -- 195 0714 3.7 24 13
1979 Washington Redskins 16 -- 260 1,153 4.4 66T 9
1978 Washington Redskins 15 -- 248 1,014 4.1 31 5
1977 Washington Redskins 05 -- 068 0203 3.0 12 0
1976 Washington Redskins 14 -- 162 0572 3.5 15 3
1975 xxxxxxNew York Jets 14 -- 238 1,005 4.2 42 8
1974 xxxxxxNew York Jets 10 -- 169 0680 4.0 00 5
1973 xxxxxxNew York Jets 11 -- 134 0482 3.6 00 4
1972 xxxxxxNew York Jets 12 -- 207 0944 4.6 00 7
1971 xxxxxxNew York Jets 14 -- 180 0769 4.3 00 1

TOTAL 2,916 11,352 3.9 66 104 250

I know I'll never win this argument on a Redskins message board.
But the argument is based more in fact than in simply being argumentative.

[VetSkinsFan]

Wasn't 82 the strike season? Did you account for that in your calcutations?

[HogInSlop]

By my count, Riggins had 6 good seasons and 8 poor ones.

I know I'll never win this argument on a Redskins message board.
But the argument is based more in fact than in simply being argumentative.

No, this argument is based in stats and numbers then what he brought to the table.

Emmitt Smith also had one of the greatest lines in front of him, a HOF QB and an HOF WR.

Riggins was the focal point of the Redskins offense. He carried the rock and carried it well, when teams knew he was going to get the ball. He did time and time again. And he did it drunk.

[BnGhog]

By my count, Riggins had 6 good seasons and 8 poor ones.

1985 Washington Redskins 12 -- 176 0677 3.8 51 8
1984 Washington Redskins 14 -- 327 1,239 3.8 24 14
1983 Washington Redskins 15 -- 375 1,347 3.6 44 24
1982 Washington Redskins 08 -- 177 0553 3.1 19 3
1981 Washington Redskins 15 -- 195 0714 3.7 24 13
1979 Washington Redskins 16 -- 260 1,153 4.4 66T 9
1978 Washington Redskins 15 -- 248 1,014 4.1 31 5
1977 Washington Redskins 05 -- 068 0203 3.0 12 0
1976 Washington Redskins 14 -- 162 0572 3.5 15 3
1975 xxxxxxNew York Jets 14 -- 238 1,005 4.2 42 8
1974 xxxxxxNew York Jets 10 -- 169 0680 4.0 00 5
1973 xxxxxxNew York Jets 11 -- 134 0482 3.6 00 4
1972 xxxxxxNew York Jets 12 -- 207 0944 4.6 00 7
1971 xxxxxxNew York Jets 14 -- 180 0769 4.3 00 1

TOTAL 2,916 11,352 3.9 66 104 250

I know I'll never win this argument on a Redskins message board.
But the argument is based more in fact than in simply being argumentative.

Why don't you still compair to someone OF HIS TIME?

lets see O. J. Simpson played from 1969-1980. Considered a great of his time.

O.J. the Juice (murder) finished his career with 11,236 and retired 16th on the all-time rushing leaders list while Riggo finished with 11,352, at the time of his retirement this was good enough for fourth on the all-time list. I will repeat, fourth on the all time list. Meaning there were only four other people at that time who rushed for more in history, how is that not great? Although Riggo Played longer than O.J., that just shows how tough he was which was something he was known for.

You see in 1983, in his 13th season, Riggins rushed for 1,347 yards and 24 touchdowns, which are both records for a player 34 years or older. The following season, he set records for a 35 year old with 1,239 rushing yards and 14 rushing touchdowns.


Comparing another Great of that time in O. J. He only had 5 seasons that he rushed for more than 1000 years. One of those years was his 2,003 yard season which broke the record in 1973. That was his best year, and that year really helped his total career numbers.

Also, one side note about O.J. Sense we are comparing the two, and one of your arguments was that he did not do nothing before coming to the skins. In O.J.'s first three years with the Bills he only averaged 622 yards.

Comparatively speaking, he was a great of his time. I mean, when he retired he was fourth of all time. How, can you deny that? He was never meant to be the Emmit Smith type. He was a workhorse, Jerome Bettus(sp?) or "the Frig" type running back. Lets compare his numbers to those guys. Riggins still holds the NFL record for rushing touchdowns of 3 yards or less(81) according to wikipedia.

[Countertrey]

the argument is based more in fact than in simply being argumentative.

Dude.

Stop.

We all know you are a lawyer. You don't even know when you are doing it.

[PulpExposure]

Why don't you still compair to someone OF HIS TIME?

That's the more important comparison, GSPODS.

He ended his career with more yards and TDs than Earl Campbell (whose career was cut short, BUT, longevity and durability is certainly a factor for a RB). Earl? 2187 attempts, 9407 yards (4.3 ypc), and 74 TDs.

Tony Dorsett, had 2936 attempts, 12739 yards (4.3 ypc), and 77 TDs.

Walter Payton, had 3838 attempts, 16726 yards (4.4 ypc), and 110 TDs. (900 more attempts!)

Franco Harris, had 2949 attempts, 12120 yards (4.1 ypc), and 91 TDs.

When you look at his overall stats in the company in which you should (his contemporaries), he's equal to any of them.

Look at how many rushing TDs he ended with; 30 more than Campbell, 27 more than Dorsett, 13 more than Harris, and only 6 less than Payton (despite 900 less carries...).

Riggins wasn't about the yards, as Countertrey posted earlier. He was about running the clock out, beating your opponent down, and smashing the ball across the goal line. He never broke off long runs, so his ypc was never fantastic. He was just a short yardage RB, who could consistently break off 4 yard chunks to keep your offense moving.

Plus, he was a fantastic goal line runner. Despite every opponent knowing he'd be the goal line runner, and that on 1st and goal you were always getting a Riggins run up the middle, he scored.

The guy was a touchdown machine. Plain and simple. He was the best short-yardage runner in the game. As well as a pretty damn good runningback overall (as CT said before, 4th in yardage when he retired).

Was he the best runningback of all time? No, and I'm fairly sure everyone here would agree with me. But he was absolutely a Hall of Fame runningback.

[GSPODS]

Was he the best runningback of all time? No, and I'm fairly sure everyone here would agree with me. But he was absolutely a Hall of Fame runningback.

Best Running Back Ever>
Jim Brown - 9 Seasons
2,359 Attempts, 12,312 Yards, 5.2 YPC average, 106 Touchdowns

If Brown had played 14 seasons:
3656 Attempts, 19,083 Yards, 5.2 YPC average, 164 Touchdowns

Everybody seems to think I'm arguing Riggins wasn't a good player. I'm not. What I am arguing is that Riggins was a good player, but not a great player without The Hogs. That's All.

[Fios]

Why don't you still compair to someone OF HIS TIME?

That's the more important comparison, GSPODS.

He ended his career with more yards and TDs than Earl Campbell (whose career was cut short, BUT, longevity and durability is certainly a factor for a RB). Earl? 2187 attempts, 9407 yards (4.3 ypc), and 74 TDs.

Tony Dorsett, had 2936 attempts, 12739 yards (4.3 ypc), and 77 TDs.

Walter Payton, had 3838 attempts, 16726 yards (4.4 ypc), and 110 TDs. (900 more attempts!)

Franco Harris, had 2949 attempts, 12120 yards (4.1 ypc), and 91 TDs.

When you look at his overall stats in the company in which you should (his contemporaries), he's equal to any of them.

Look at how many rushing TDs he ended with; 30 more than Campbell, 27 more than Dorsett, 13 more than Harris, and only 6 less than Payton (despite 900 less carries...).

Riggins wasn't about the yards, as Countertrey posted earlier. He was about running the clock out, beating your opponent down, and smashing the ball across the goal line. He never broke off long runs, so his ypc was never fantastic. He was just a short yardage RB, who could consistently break off 4 yard chunks to keep your offense moving.

Plus, he was a fantastic goal line runner. Despite every opponent knowing he'd be the goal line runner, and that on 1st and goal you were always getting a Riggins run up the middle, he scored.

The guy was a touchdown machine. Plain and simple. He was the best short-yardage runner in the game. As well as a pretty damn good runningback overall (as CT said before, 4th in yardage when he retired).

Was he the best runningback of all time? No, and I'm fairly sure everyone here would agree with me. But he was absolutely a Hall of Fame runningback.

[GSPODS]

This has gone so far away from the original point that I doubt there is any hope of bringing it back. I will make an effort.

The original point of this discussion was that John Riggins needed the Redskins and The Hogs as much as the Redskins and The Hogs needed John Riggins. Everybody is in such a rush to defend Riggins, as though I am attacking him. I'm not attacking Riggins. What I am attacking is that Riggins is not a Hall Of Fame running back without the Hogs. 75% of Riggins' statistical accomplishments and 100% of Riggins' reputation, both on and off the football field, were established as a member of the Washington Redskins. Riggins had less than 4000 career rushing yards and a league-wide reputation for being a volatile alcoholic when he retired from the New Yuck Jets.

Almost everyone knows the "You need me more than I need you" story between Riggins and Joe Gibbs. Let's quantify and qualify that statement. At the time, Riggins was right. However, had Riggins stayed retired, would anyone be discussing him nearly 30 years later? The honest truth is that Gibbs needed Riggins, Riggins needed The Hogs, The Hogs needed Riggins, and Riggins needed The Redskins as much as Gibbs needed Riggins. Not only would Riggins not be a Hall Of Famer, SuperBowl MVP, Redskins Legend, likely he would have retired to Kansas and died of cirrhosis of the liver. People tend to forget that no one else was beating Riggins' door down to come back to the NFL.

Riggins should be making frequent sabbaticals to the grave of one Jack Kent Cooke, without whom Gibbs would not have been able to pursue Riggins, and without whom Riggins would not have been able to pursue legendary status among the football greats.

Nobody is happier about the way things actually worked out than I am. But why people act like it's a Cardinal Sin to say anything even remotely negative about Redskins players while, at the same time, talking negatively about Bengals players, Cowboys players, and others is a ridiculously homerish double-standard. The only difference is drug of choice. For Riggins, it was alcohol. For Lawrence Taylor, it was cocaine. For Michael Irvin, it was crack. For Lyle Alzado, it was steroids.

Would anyone care to argue that some of the best players of all-time were drug addicts? Or that the Hall Of Fame voters love drug addicts?
Riggins is a Redskins legend. But how about a little perspective?

[VetSkinsFan]

If Brown had played 14 seasons:
3656 Attempts, 19,083 Yards, 5.2 YPC average, 164 Touchdowns

Come on man, that's speculative and you know it. There's no way you know if Brown could sustain that long or output diminish or any number of variables that could help or hinder Brown's accomplishments. I would expect more from you.

the argument is based more in fact than in simply being argumentative.

Dude.

Stop.

We all know you are a lawyer. You don't even know when you are doing it.